An Expensive Lesson Learned.

[Charles4515]

37 minutes ago, susiesan said:

Don't give up/in without a fight. Travel insurance companies always deny your claim on the first submittal. Call back and ask for a supervisor. If that doesn't work turn it over to your state's attorney general office/insurance commissioner. Sometimes that gets you results. 

 

I don't get why Am Ex insurance won't cover the cruise cost if you paid for it with the AmEx card. Makes no sense.

It is a credit card benefit. They limit it to encourage card members to book all their travel on a trip with AMEX. Their card, their rule. They don't hide the rule. It is clearly stated. All travel on a trip from start to finish must be charged on AMEX Platinum, Chase Reserve does not have that rule. 

 

It is not a purchased inurance policy. A supervisor can't overule the rule for using the benefit. They are not going to get results with their state attorney general. 

 

It would not depend on the AMEX benifit or the Chase benefit for a international trip that ncludes a cruise. There are all kinds of conditions. OP should have purchase a third party travel policy. 

[Sthrngary]

On 10/27/2023 at 12:08 PM, Cruzin Terri said:

I posted this on the Insurance Forum and think it is worth posting here as well, since I was to take an Oceania Sirena Cruise from Rome to Miami.

 

Let me start by saying that I am not blaming AMEX.  i did not do due diligence by reading and understanding all the terms and conditions of the insurance so I blame no one but myself.

This post is only so that anyone else who may be thinking of using the insurance provided by the AMEX Platinum Card understand when and how they may be able to get reimbursed.

Here is my story:

We were planning a trip to Italy and then a cruise from Rome back to Miami.  We booked our airfare with Chase Points and paid for our cruise with the AMEX Platinum Card.  The cruise was under $10,000 so I figured that in the event we had to cancel for a covered reason, we were insured.  

Well, two days before we were to leave for Italy, my husband became ill and we were unable to go.  My airline tickets to Italy (purchased using Chase Points) were fully refundable.  So that was refunded and the points re deposited in my Chase Ultimate Rewards account.  I had opted to pay for the hotel stays at the time we stayed rather than the early, non-refundable rate.  So I canceled in time.  The only money we stood to lose was the cruise fare. So I felt we had a shot at getting that back with AMEX.  So I called them to file a clam.

 

Not so easy.

What I failed to notice was that AMEX says that a Covered Trip is a period of round trip travel 1) to one or more destinations other than an Eligible Traveler’s city of residence at the time of departure where 2) the period of round-trip trave ends when the Eligible Traveler returns by Common Carrier to the city of departure: 3) the trip does not exceed 365 days away from the the Eligible Travelers city of residence and 4) The Eligible Traveler charges the full amount of the cost of the the transportation by Common Carrier(s) to your Eligible Card.  The period of round trip may consist of round trip, one-way, or combinations of round trip, one-way tickets with Common Carriers.

 

So the very first question, after verifying my identity, was how did I pay for the tickets to get to Italy.  As soon as I told her I used the Chase Ultimate Rewards, she let me know the terms and conditions of the insurance and immediately went on to inform me that my claim was most likely to be declined due to the fact that I did not pay for all my transportation by common carrier with the Platinum Card.

 

It was a lesson for me and I share it with you so that you do not make the same mistake I did.

Please don’t flame me for not reading the T&C’s.  i already know I made a mistake.  I write this as a helpful hint for others who may be thinking of doing likewise.

Terri

@Cruzin Terri Not only was your post helpful, it was educational.  I fully understand your comment about being flamed.  I have second degree burns on some of my posts for sure. You really did not need to worry about being burned because you throughout your post took accountability for your actions.  That shows character and class. So many folks complain and blame everyone but themselves then cope a major attitude. Nothing ever goes completely correct on a cruise as we all know. 

 

What I really like about your post was a certain level of clarity as it relates to coverage for Credit Cards alone. Also, what happens when one uses points for travel outside of the credit card used for the cruise fare.  Very informative.  Thank you.

 

Side personal story.  I NEVER ever used Third Party Travel Insurance in 42 years of cruising.  Then for what every reason and I don't remember what it was that motivated me, I purchased third party travel insurance with cancel for any reason, for my wife and myself.  The timing was just as cruises were going to start back post covid and it was on Crystal Cruises out of Miami. 8 days prior to departure, my wife got covid.  Half of my fare was going to be lost which was a lot of money.  Remember, this was my first time EVER having Third Party Cruise Travel Insurance.  My lose was paid within 15 business days after I did a claim.  I also did a claim for misc. items not taken care of by the third party travel insurance and did a claim on my American Express Platinum Card.  It was not much but it did pay something. I got really lucky. 

 

@Cruzin Terri Please if you have not already, still send in a claim.  Also, please consider sending a nice note to Oceania explaining what happened.  I am in no way saying it will make a differences in your situation. However, like chicken soup, it can't hurt. Stranger things have happened.

 

Cruise well and enjoy every moment. 

 

 

[Charles4515]

17 minutes ago, ak1004 said:

 

I agree.

 

It says "The Eligible Traveler charges the full amount of the cost of the the transportation by Common Carrier(s) to your Eligible Card." But you did pay for a full amount of your cruise with Amex. 

 

 

They only cover if you purchase a round trip entirely with the card. The cruise was not a round trip. I have cut and pasted the conditions for coverage. below. 

 

"Despite our best efforts, sometimes things happen that are out of our control. If you purchase a round trip entirely with your Eligible Card and a covered reason cancels or interrupts your trip, Trip Cancellation and Interruption Insurance^‡ can help reimburse your non-refundable expenses purchased with the same Eligible Card, up to $10,000 per trip and up to $20,000 per Eligible Card per 12 consecutive month period. Terms, conditions and limitations apply.^*"
 

Edited October 28, 2023 by Charles4515

[susiesan]

Wasn't the entire "trip" a roundtrip from the OP's home?

 

Even though this is an AmEx benefit, don't they use an insurance company to handle claims? I know Chase cards run their trip cancellation benefit through an insurance company. Used to be Chubb, but I don't know who Chase uses now.

[Charles4515]

4 minutes ago, susiesan said:

Wasn't the entire "trip" a roundtrip from the OP's home?

 

Even though this is an AmEx benefit, don't they use an insurance company to handle claims? I know Chase cards run their trip cancellation benefit through an insurance company. Used to be Chubb, but I don't know who Chase uses now.

They did not book their airfare with AMEX. So the entire roundtrip was not booked entirely with the AMEX card. That is the terms and conditions for the AMEX coverage.

 

 

 

 

[cruisemom42]

@Cruzin Terri  So sorry to hear that your trip was derailed and that you had to deal with all the fallout.

 

Seems so often insurance has written their rules to ensure they pay out a minimum of claims. I have generally avoided going the credit card route for insurance; I prefer to get a policy that has the coverage I specifically ask for -- but of course, that adds to the cost of travel and even then very unexpected events can occur.

 

Lately there has been much to think about with regard to how cruise lines, air carriers and insurance react when global "incidents" seem to be brewing in a number of areas.

 

[Cruzin Terri]

7 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

@Cruzin Terri  So sorry to hear that your trip was derailed and that you had to deal with all the fallout.

 

Seems so often insurance has written their rules to ensure they pay out a minimum of claims. I have generally avoided going the credit card route for insurance; I prefer to get a policy that has the coverage I specifically ask for -- but of course, that adds to the cost of travel and even then very unexpected events can occur.

 

Lately there has been much to think about with regard to how cruise lines, air carriers and insurance react when global "incidents" seem to be brewing in a number of areas.

 

Thaks.  I really think this would have worked had I been aware of the rules.

I just was not paying attention when I booked the airfare.  The funny thing is, I had enough AMEX points to pay for the airfare as well.  I would have been fully covered.

I am not going to fight with them when it is in black and white what the rules are.

I learned a hard lesson and wanted others to be aware to make sure they don't make the same mistake I did.

Terri

[Dadedumdum]

19 hours ago, ak1004 said:

 

 

Any Canadians who read this, any idea if this is true for Canadian credit cards? I read my Visa Aeroplan Infinitie privilege card, as far as I could see, it covers all expenses paid by the card. It doesn’t mention that all expenses including air has to be paid by the card.?

 

We had the same experience as the OP on our TD Aeroplan Visa but that was back in 2011. A lot has changed since then. It's my understanding that 75% of the total cost of the trip (air, hotels, cruises, whatever) has to be on the card.  There is a tool on their website where you can input your trip info and it will tell you what the limitations are. For example, when I enter my trip info, it shows that only 21/30 days are covered. If a cruise is within that last 9 days, it is not insured but of course they will up sell you a policy to cover it.  Once we turn 65, our TD Visa travel insurance reduces to next to nothing, maybe 3 days if we're lucky, lol.

Edited October 28, 2023 by Dadedumdum

[Vineyard View]

The last several times I have used points to transfer to our mileage account, I have called the airline. Both time Air France/FB.  While I have them on the phone to determine which flights I can use my points for, I have had my Amex account up on my IPad ready to transfer while I am on the phone with FB agent. When we found suitable flights, which this year required jaw dropping numbers of points, I immediately transferred to my account while on the phone with the agent and it was done. 
The previous time I did this, Covid impacted our plans, so those points/miles stayed in my FB account. They did not transfer back to my Amex Card. I applied them this year, but that is the biggest, for me, downside to how I have used my points. 

[ak1004]

2 hours ago, Charles4515 said:

 

 

They only cover if you purchase a round trip entirely with the card. The cruise was not a round trip. I have cut and pasted the conditions for coverage. below. 

 

"Despite our best efforts, sometimes things happen that are out of our control. If you purchase a round trip entirely with your Eligible Card and a covered reason cancels or interrupts your trip, Trip Cancellation and Interruption Insurance^‡ can help reimburse your non-refundable expenses purchased with the same Eligible Card, up to $10,000 per trip and up to $20,000 per Eligible Card per 12 consecutive month period. Terms, conditions and limitations apply.^*"
 

 

Looks like you are right unfortunately.

 

Interestingly, the same Amex Platinum in Canada doesn't have this limitation:

https://www.americanexpress.com/content/dam/amex/en-ca/insurance/pdfs/certificates-of-insurance/The-Platinum-Card-COI-EN.pdf

 

Correct me if I'm wrong. There is no mentioning that the whole trip has to be paid with the card.

[YoHoHo]

9 hours ago, ak1004 said:

Correct me if I'm wrong. There is no mentioning that the whole trip has to be paid with the card.

Yes, it is in the first post: Well, more correctly the full cost of the TRANSPORTATION (vs the full cost of the trip)

On 10/27/2023 at 10:08 AM, Cruzin Terri said:

...

What I failed to notice was that AMEX says that a Covered Trip is a period of round trip travel 1) to one or more destinations other than an Eligible Traveler’s city of residence at the time of departure where 2) the period of round-trip trave ends when the Eligible Traveler returns by Common Carrier to the city of departure: 3) the trip does not exceed 365 days away from the the Eligible Travelers city of residence and 4) The Eligible Traveler charges the full amount of the cost of the the transportation by Common Carrier(s) to your Eligible Card.  The period of round trip may consist of round trip, one-way, or combinations of round trip, one-way tickets with Common Carriers.

 

and that is a major part of the issue. The points conversation drew away from the insurance issue. Didn't matter whether the OP used points or used a different credit card for the outbound flight the problem was that they did not not purchase that flight as well on the card they are trying to claim the insurance.

 

Thank-you @Cruzin Terri for starting this thread and helping everyone learn something from this.

 

Not the transportation aspect of the Terms but addressing the part of the discussion of having to cover the cost of the entire trip. I recently checked my credit cards for coverage terms as the card that I wanted to use for part of a travel purchase has no foreign currency transaction fees. The previous part of the trip I had already purchased on a different card but that was not in a foreign currency. In my case the first card, with the major purchase and the better coverage, would allow a partial purchase as long as the dollar amount was no greater than 20% (or such) not charged to the card. I might be recalling wrongly but think it was 20% . I will recheck and report back.  @ak1004 mine was on a TD First Class Travel card not the same as your Visa Aeroplan but is a CDN card. 

 

Importantly I did see something about "round trip travel" but just glossed over that thinking A. it does not apply to this purchase and B. how often would that occur anyway - a one way trip to Europe?? I did not consider the OP's scenario and could easily have easily, unwittingly done similar as I have long been playing with taking a TA cruise both ways with land travel in-between and could easily have put one of the cruises on a different card. Or pay for a cruise on one and the flight on another. For me this is a valuable thread.

[Iamthesea]

18 hours ago, Charles4515 said:

 

 

They only cover if you purchase a round trip entirely with the card. The cruise was not a round trip. I have cut and pasted the conditions for coverage. below. 

 

"Despite our best efforts, sometimes things happen that are out of our control. If you purchase a round trip entirely with your Eligible Card and a covered reason cancels or interrupts your trip, Trip Cancellation and Interruption Insurance^‡ can help reimburse your non-refundable expenses purchased with the same Eligible Card, up to $10,000 per trip and up to $20,000 per Eligible Card per 12 consecutive month period. Terms, conditions and limitations apply.^*"
 

 

So sorry that this has happened to you and your husband.  My DH and I have always wondered about the hype of credit card travel insurance.  We book everything using our VISA Platinum card. I do not believe that the card has travel insurance coverage, so we have thought about switching cards.  However, after seeing that the AMEX only covers up to $10,000 in travel cost, there is no way that the card would work for us when traveling overseas.   Maybe for a shorter Caribbean cruise. 

 

The cost for our upcoming trip to Europe, cruise only, is over $8,000.  Our BC air is almost $6000.  That doesn't include any non-refundable cost for some of our excursions.  As with the OP, our hotels are not pre-paid.   So we could not use credit card insurance.

 

We purchase separate Primary travel insurance and try to pay special attention to what is covered.  We do not cover our air travel as we can get reimbursed for that through the carrier.

[Cruzin Terri]

1 minute ago, Iamthesea said:

 

So sorry that this has happened to you and your husband.  My DH and I have always wondered about the hype of credit card travel insurance.  We book everything using our VISA Platinum card. I do not believe that the card has travel insurance coverage, so we have thought about switching cards.  However, after seeing that the AMEX only covers up to $10,000 in travel cost, there is no way that the card would work for us when traveling overseas.   Maybe for a shorter Caribbean cruise. 

 

The cost for our upcoming trip to Europe, cruise only, is over $8,000.  Our BC air is almost $6000.  That doesn't include any non-refundable cost for some of our excursions.  As with the OP, our hotels are not pre-paid.   So we could not use credit card insurance.

 

We purchase separate Primary travel insurance and try to pay special attention to what is covered.  We do not cover our air travel as we can get reimbursed for that through the carrier.

If you read the conditions carefully (as I originally did not) it only requires that transportation by common carrier be paid with the card.  There is no requirement that the lodging be paid with the card or even private transportation such as car service or taxi.  The transportation can be different for each sector of round trip travel.  In my case had I paid for the plane fare with AMEX as well as the cruise, I would have been covered up to $10,000 Even though the amount of the trip exceeded the coverage amount.

Terri

[roberts2005]

58 minutes ago, Iamthesea said:

 

So sorry that this has happened to you and your husband.  My DH and I have always wondered about the hype of credit card travel insurance.  We book everything using our VISA Platinum card. I do not believe that the card has travel insurance coverage, so we have thought about switching cards.  However, after seeing that the AMEX only covers up to $10,000 in travel cost, there is no way that the card would work for us when traveling overseas.   Maybe for a shorter Caribbean cruise. 

 

The cost for our upcoming trip to Europe, cruise only, is over $8,000.  Our BC air is almost $6000.  That doesn't include any non-refundable cost for some of our excursions.  As with the OP, our hotels are not pre-paid.   So we could not use credit card insurance.

 

We purchase separate Primary travel insurance and try to pay special attention to what is covered.  We do not cover our air travel as we can get reimbursed for that through the carrier.

Check your coverage.  For two people the coverage should be $20,000.00

[ak1004]

17 minutes ago, roberts2005 said:

Check your coverage.  For two people the coverage should be $20,000.00

 

For Platinum is $10k per trip - https://www.americanexpress.com/content/dam/amex/us/credit-cards/features-benefits/policies/pdf/Trip_Cancellation_and_Interruption_Insurance.pdf

 

But this is still very generous - In Canada the maximum we get is $2,500 CAD per person.

 

The cost of third party cancellation insurance is around $70 per $1,000, so for 10k it would be $700 which is pretty significant. If the trip is more than $10k, you can add a third party insurance to insure the difference.

[Charles4515]

1 hour ago, Cruzin Terri said:

If you read the conditions carefully (as I originally did not) it only requires that transportation by common carrier be paid with the card.  There is no requirement that the lodging be paid with the card or even private transportation such as car service or taxi.  The transportation can be different for each sector of round trip travel.  In my case had I paid for the plane fare with AMEX as well as the cruise, I would have been covered up to $10,000 Even though the amount of the trip exceeded the coverage amount.

Terri

That is correct. There are other conditions to consider th/ough. Preexisting conditions are not covered. If the airline or cruise line goes bankrupt not covered. Medical coverage is not included. They will assist you with medical evacuation but you might get charges from third parties I am not clear on what the medical evacuation covers. Third party insurance has much better coverages. I think the Chase Reserve coverage is better. 

Edited October 29, 2023 by Charles4515

[Hlitner]

10 minutes ago, ak1004 said:

 

For Platinum is $10k per trip - https://www.americanexpress.com/content/dam/amex/us/credit-cards/features-benefits/policies/pdf/Trip_Cancellation_and_Interruption_Insurance.pdf

 

But this is still very generous - In Canada the maximum we get is $2,500 CAD per person.

 

The cost of third party cancellation insurance is around $70 per $1,000, so for 10k it would be $700 which is pretty significant. If the trip is more than $10k, you can add a third party insurance to insure the difference.

Not nearly as generous as the Chase Sapphire cards which are $10,000 per person (they will pay up to $20,000 per trip).

[Charles4515]

10 minutes ago, ak1004 said:

he cost of third party cancellation insurance is around $70 per $1,000, so for 10k it would be $700 which is pretty significant. If the trip is more than $10k, you can add a third party insurance to insure the difference.

Third party insuance costs more but they are covering medical costs and emergency evacuation. 

[Charles4515]

3 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

Not nearly as generous as the Chase Sapphire cards which are $10,000 per person (they will pay up to $20,000 per trip).

Also the Chase cards include medical and dental benefits. Also you don't have to book everything with Chase. Since OP mentioned using Chase points I wonder why they are not filing a claim with Chase. It appears they have a Chase card'

[ak1004]

11 minutes ago, Charles4515 said:

Third party insuance costs more but they are covering medical costs and emergency evacuation. 

Credit cards in Canada cover medical and evacuation too.

[Charles4515]

1 hour ago, Cruzin Terri said:

If you read the conditions carefully (as I originally did not) it only requires that transportation by common carrier be paid with the card.  There is no requirement that the lodging be paid with the card or even private transportation such as car service or taxi.  The transportation can be different for each sector of round trip travel.  In my case had I paid for the plane fare with AMEX as well as the cruise, I would have been covered up to $10,000 Even though the amount of the trip exceeded the coverage amount.

Terri

Since you used Chase points for part of your trip don't you have a Chase Card? Even though the cruise part was paid with AMEX under Chase conditions you might be covered. They don't have the roundtrip rule. I suggest calling the Chase claims department. 

[Charles4515]

Just now, ak1004 said:

Credit cards in Canada cover medical and evacuation too.

Maybe AMEX Canada does but the US Platnium card does have medical benefits. 

[Cruzin Terri]

31 minutes ago, Charles4515 said:

Also the Chase cards include medical and dental benefits. Also you don't have to book everything with Chase. Since OP mentioned using Chase points I wonder why they are not filing a claim with Chase. It appears they have a Chase card'

Because i did not book any part of the cruise with he Chase Card. A stupid mistake in retrospect.

I was trying to use the Chase Card for other parts of the trip—we were spending 3 weeks in Italy prior to the cruise. Also we both have medical coverage with our Health Insurance so we’re not worried about that.  I know better for the next time.

Terri

Edited October 29, 2023 by Cruzin Terri

[YourWorldWithBill]

Just a note for all who mentioned coverage limits: with AmEx platinum, I pay $64 for each cruise that gets us a tremendous amount of extra medical coverage. All transportation still has to be paid with AmEx, but $64 is a pretty nice price.

[Charles4515]

37 minutes ago, YourWorldWithBill said:

Just a note for all who mentioned coverage limits: with AmEx platinum, I pay $64 for each cruise that gets us a tremendous amount of extra medical coverage. All transportation still has to be paid with AmEx, but $64 is a pretty nice price.

Where do you find that? I would like to read what it  covers.