Arcadia or Aurora first to go

[david63]

1 hour ago, john watson said:

Arcadia was originally built for Cunard

If I am not mistaken she was originally intended for HAL, then Cunard before finding her home with P&O

[john watson]

14 minutes ago, david63 said:

If I am not mistaken she was originally intended for HAL, then Cunard before finding her home with P&O

Quite likely HAL first. I think she would suit Cunard even now if extensively refitted for passengers that want to sail transatlantic in both directions.  US passengers can stay a few days in UK while QM2 does the short trip to Europe, Southampton to Hamburg return.  UK passengers only have a few hours in New York. A smaller ship running five to seven days later on a shuttle basis might be viable.This happened years ago with transatlantic liners.

 

Regards John

 

 

Edited December 22, 2023 by john watson

[Fionboard]

On 12/22/2023 at 12:30 PM, david63 said:

Another option would be to have some adult only cruises on some ships - after all for a large part of the year the majority of cruises are effectively adult only anyway.

Good idea. Particularly during term time. 

[john watson]

1 hour ago, Fionboard said:

Good idea. Particularly during term time. 

 

I suggest that if you want to run an adult only cruise it would make sense to be during school holidays.  During term time very minimal number of children will be on board anyway.

 

Regards John

[Fionboard]

15 minutes ago, john watson said:

 

I suggest that if you want to run an adult only cruise it would make sense to be during school holidays.  During term time very minimal number of children will be on board anyway.

 

Regards John

🙄 Obviously!

[yorkshirephil]

13 minutes ago, john watson said:

 

I suggest that if you want to run an adult only cruise it would make sense to be during school holidays.  During term time very minimal number of children will be on board anyway.

 

Regards John

That is not the case anymore, some of the offerings of free child places and reduced fares on the bigger ships are tempting parents to take kids out of school and pay the fines. We sailed last September expecting just pre-school kids but there were quite a lot of older kids. 

[john watson]

14 minutes ago, yorkshirephil said:

That is not the case anymore, some of the offerings of free child places and reduced fares on the bigger ships are tempting parents to take kids out of school and pay the fines. We sailed last September expecting just pre-school kids but there were quite a lot of older kids. 

 

True but are we not wanting to minimalise the number of children on board not eradicate their presence? The school holidays also vary regionally and by  UK country.

 

Regards John

[Selbourne]

22 minutes ago, yorkshirephil said:

That is not the case anymore, some of the offerings of free child places and reduced fares on the bigger ships are tempting parents to take kids out of school and pay the fines. We sailed last September expecting just pre-school kids but there were quite a lot of older kids. 

We found the same. We were amazed how many kids were on board during school time. I overheard one elderly lady (possibly a retired teacher) proclaim “of course, the parents of these children will blame everyone but themselves for their children’s poor performance at school”!

 

7 minutes ago, john watson said:

 

True but are we not wanting to minimalise the number of children on board not eradicate their presence? The school holidays also vary regionally and by  UK country.

 

Regards John

No point in doing it unless you ‘eradicate’. Adult only means just that!

[yorkshirephil]

12 minutes ago, john watson said:

 

True but are we not wanting to minimalise the number of children on board not eradicate their presence? The school holidays also vary regionally and by  UK country.

 

Regards John

I would suggest that people wanting adult only would not want their presence. 

[john watson]

37 minutes ago, yorkshirephil said:

I would suggest that people wanting adult only would not want their presence. 

In that case you need a dedicated ship or ships.  The problem then being from a cruise lines perspective is ensuring financial viability. If it is then fine but my experience is that the older group tend to dislike the mega ships.  I am thinking that over time it will get more awkward.

 

Regards John

[john watson]

1 hour ago, yorkshirephil said:

That is not the case anymore, some of the offerings of free child places and reduced fares on the bigger ships are tempting parents to take kids out of school and pay the fines. We sailed last September expecting just pre-school kids but there were quite a lot of older kids. 

This would suggest to me that P&O are trying very hard to fill their ships.  This might not be going down very well with some older passengers.  The problem seems to me is trying to get greater numbers to book cruises in larger and larger ships whereas it might get harder to fill an adult only megaship year round.

 

Regards John

[Selbourne]

23 minutes ago, john watson said:

In that case you need a dedicated ship or ships.  The problem then being from a cruise lines perspective is ensuring financial viability. If it is then fine but my experience is that the older group tend to dislike the mega ships.  I am thinking that over time it will get more awkward.

 

Regards John

The suggestion was that a ship like Ventura could replace whichever of Arcadia or Aurora goes first, as an adult only ship. This would be perfectly possible and financially viable. Most Ventura cruises out of school holidays are already over 90% adults and you’d only need a small proportion of the displaced passengers from the ‘sold’ ship to replace the kids. I think that only a very small proportion of Arcadia or Aurora passengers would consider Ventura to be out of bounds, especially if it was an adult only environment. 

[jeanlyon]

6 minutes ago, Selbourne said:

The suggestion was that a ship like Ventura could replace whichever of Arcadia or Aurora goes first, as an adult only ship. This would be perfectly possible and financially viable. Most Ventura cruises out of school holidays are already over 90% adults and you’d only need a small proportion of the displaced passengers from the ‘sold’ ship to replace the kids. I think that only a very small proportion of Arcadia or Aurora passengers would consider Ventura to be out of bounds, especially if it was an adult only environment. 

I would - just like Azura.  Too big for us!

[Selbourne]

2 minutes ago, jeanlyon said:

I would - just like Azura.  Too big for us!

I was allowing for you in the small proportion that wouldn’t be OK with it Jean 😉 

[yorkshirephil]

17 minutes ago, Selbourne said:

The suggestion was that a ship like Ventura could replace whichever of Arcadia or Aurora goes first, as an adult only ship. This would be perfectly possible and financially viable. Most Ventura cruises out of school holidays are already over 90% adults and you’d only need a small proportion of the displaced passengers from the ‘sold’ ship to replace the kids. I think that only a very small proportion of Arcadia or Aurora passengers would consider Ventura to be out of bounds, especially if it was an adult only environment. 

Even Ventura may not be the best option based on her age, ultimately P&O will have to make a decision when the two adult only ships go. They may be wanting to tempt younger adults and families but I don't see those people filling the ships during the winter months.

The long winter cruises are very popular even to the extent that Iona will be added to the mix come 2025. If Britannia or Azura were made adult only even for the winter months would that be enough to tempt older people bearing in mind there would be no other alternative if they want to stay with P&O? It would work for us, but obviously not Jean.

[Josy1953]

I hope that they keep Aurora for at least the next year because we have moved the cruise that we should have done last month to Aurora next November.

[Selbourne]

49 minutes ago, yorkshirephil said:

Even Ventura may not be the best option based on her age, ultimately P&O will have to make a decision when the two adult only ships go. They may be wanting to tempt younger adults and families but I don't see those people filling the ships during the winter months.

The long winter cruises are very popular even to the extent that Iona will be added to the mix come 2025. If Britannia or Azura were made adult only even for the winter months would that be enough to tempt older people bearing in mind there would be no other alternative if they want to stay with P&O? It would work for us, but obviously not Jean.

I should think that Britannia is too big to be made adult only, but Ventura and Azura are now relatively small ships by todays standards!

[yorkshirephil]

1 hour ago, Josy1953 said:

I hope that they keep Aurora for at least the next year because we have moved the cruise that we should have done last month to Aurora next November.

I hope at least two as we are booked for 2026 and it is a bucket list cruise for us. 

[jeanlyon]

1 hour ago, Selbourne said:

I was allowing for you in the small proportion that wouldn’t be OK with it Jean 😉 

Luv ya!!

[terrierjohn]

15 minutes ago, Josy1953 said:

I hope that they keep Aurora for at least the next year because we have moved the cruise that we should have done last month to Aurora next November.

If P&O are making the investment in their refurbishment that they promised, then I guess they are safe for at least 5 yrs. However I have not seen any posts that indicate any improvements have so far been made, and one of them was supposed to happen this year. Not surprising really, it's nearly 10 yrs  since P&O promised they were replacing all the TVs with large widescreen ones, and Ventura and Azura are still waiting.

[yorkshirephil]

10 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

If P&O are making the investment in their refurbishment that they promised, then I guess they are safe for at least 5 yrs. However I have not seen any posts that indicate any improvements have so far been made, and one of them was supposed to happen this year. Not surprising really, it's nearly 10 yrs  since P&O promised they were replacing all the TVs with large widescreen ones, and Ventura and Azura are still waiting.

This is what they say on their web page,  

 

On 28 March 2023 we announced that we will be updating guest areas on our adult ships, Aurora and Arcadia. 

 

The changes include new balcony furniture, new chairs in cabins, as well as new furniture on the ship’s open deck areas. On Arcadia, the Neptune Pool has also seen considerable investment with new lounge chairs, sofas, tables and armchairs. Arcadia’s wider refit will take place in November 2024 and Aurora’s is scheduled for April 2025.

[terrierjohn]

1 hour ago, yorkshirephil said:

This is what they say on their web page,  

 

On 28 March 2023 we announced that we will be updating guest areas on our adult ships, Aurora and Arcadia. 

 

The changes include new balcony furniture, new chairs in cabins, as well as new furniture on the ship’s open deck areas. On Arcadia, the Neptune Pool has also seen considerable investment with new lounge chairs, sofas, tables and armchairs. Arcadia’s wider refit will take place in November 2024 and Aurora’s is scheduled for April 2025.

Have those dates changed, because I am fairly certain one of the refits was due in 2023.

[yorkshirephil]

20 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

Have those dates changed, because I am fairly certain one of the refits was due in 2023.

Not sure, I remember @molecrochip posting something earlier in the year referring to this. 

[molecrochip]

On 12/21/2023 at 4:36 AM, Cathygh said:

If I were to bet on any ship beeing sold off I would chose Ventura or Azura. If P&O can't fill their ships to the level required for a good profit cutting capacity by 3000 might make a difference, and give them a cash injection

P&O are not struggling to fill their ships. Running at 98% capacity, I believe. Deep discounting is winding down although some good deals this spring.

On 12/21/2023 at 5:03 AM, tring said:

Molecrochip has mentioned on the past that once Aurora and Arcadia go, there will be no need for an adult only ship.  Obviously that does not fit in with their new target market at all.

If you take Ventura or Azura onto those longer itineraries, why do they need to ban kids. The few that are on there will get lost in the number of adults.

On 12/21/2023 at 9:47 AM, terrierjohn said:

Unless there is a marked divergence in death rates and ageing, then the number of potential passengers for Arcadia and Aurora should remain unchanged, and with the increase in the UK population and people living longer, it could even grow.

Of course it's by no means certain that the newer septagenarians will enjoy the same style of cruising as the current ones, but equally they might.

So it is possible that there will continue to be a demand for the 2 little ships, even if they do need replacing sometime in the future.

You’re suggesting that as people get older they will switch to smaller ships to replace those gone before. I’d suggest that if you like, say, Britannia, why would you switch?

On 12/21/2023 at 11:46 AM, majortom10 said:

Think P&O tried that a few years ago but the opposite way with Ocean Village 1&2 but didn't last long. Personally think P&O are only interested in one way and that is the big Arvia/Iona etc with younger cruiser's who are happy to spend onboard with different excursions and drinks packages. Once the Aurora/Arcadia clientele start declining or the get a knock on the door from an interested buyer they will be gone. Then P&O will only have one type of cruising that is for the megaship brigade.

Agree that Aurora/Acadia’s ultimate demise  will likely be the end of the old P&O. I don’t expect Princess to replace Island Princess either in due course.

On 12/22/2023 at 5:14 AM, david63 said:

I have no doubt that what you are quoting is correct but your analysis has not factored in the fact that according to Moley both Arcadia and Aurora only have, at best, another 10 years in the fleet.

 

I would not be at all surprised to find that Carnival have also looked at that data (and much more) when doing their long term forward planning

Carnival must certainly have looked at the numbers.

On 12/22/2023 at 6:30 AM, david63 said:

Another option would be to have some adult only cruises on some ships - after all for a large part of the year the majority of cruises are effectively adult only anyway.

This is an option, but I’d have them in school holidays too - to offer the mix. That said, I go back to my earlier comments about why need them?

8 hours ago, yorkshirephil said:

That is not the case anymore, some of the offerings of free child places and reduced fares on the bigger ships are tempting parents to take kids out of school and pay the fines. We sailed last September expecting just pre-school kids but there were quite a lot of older kids. 

P&O have been less aggressive with such offers since the Pandemic however do note some schools start as late as October.

[zap99]

6 hours ago, yorkshirephil said:

Even Ventura may not be the best option based on her age, ultimately P&O will have to make a decision when the two adult only ships go. They may be wanting to tempt younger adults and families but I don't see those people filling the ships during the winter months.

The long winter cruises are very popular even to the extent that Iona will be added to the mix come 2025. If Britannia or Azura were made adult only even for the winter months would that be enough to tempt older people bearing in mind there would be no other alternative if they want to stay with P&O? It would work for us, but obviously not Jean.

Can you imagine one of the big ships as adult only. Full of grumpy folk tut-tutting about the good old days. 🤣