New Ships are coming

[longhorn2004]

Despite having 30 Billion in long term debt, Carnival rumored to order 4 new 200K ton ships worth 7.5 Billion.

 

https://www.cruisehive.com/are-huge-new-carnival-owned-cruise-ships-coming/120990

 

https://cruiseradio.net/carnivals-plan-for-more-mega-cruise-ships/

 

https://www.seatrade-cruise.com/shipbuilding-refurb-equipment/carnival-signals-cruise-newbuild-orders-cards-probable-2027-delivery

Edited January 18 by longhorn2004

[PayneAS]

Also being discussed here:
 

 

[longhorn2004]

Oops, thanks  Payne AS

Mods please delete.

Edited January 18 by longhorn2004
duplication

[jsglow]

Ummm, the news scoop goes to @Despegue. 😎

 

 

[hurricane0226]

Kinda reminds me of the Waylon Jenings song, trying to keep us with the Jones, or in this

case RCL, maybe it's time they go back to the Conquest class ships

[staceyglow]

My question is where are all these new massive ships going to go?

 

There are only a handful of ports that can handle the megaships, and they appear to be pretty saturated already with their current cruise visitors. They don't seem to want to build the smaller ones that can go just about anywhere, so what happens when they need to retire the old ones?

 

Is the strategy to convince all the ports to build docks that accommodate the big ships?  Will the build some small ships in the future so that people will be able to go other places than Nassau,  Cozumel, and Grand Turk?  

[Despegue]

For the Mainstream mass market cruiselines, the target is to have the ship itself as the main destination, and visited ports as a mere “additional attraction “. Keeping guests onboard increases the revenue obviously. 
My info is telling me that at least 2 ships will go to Carnival, one to Aida and another undecided. There is also the probability of additional vessels. 
Also Meyer Shipbuilding is hoping for extra orders for the Helios Class ships ( Mardi Gras and her sisters along the Carnival corp. brands).  

[Joebucks]

11 hours ago, staceyglow said:

My question is where are all these new massive ships going to go?

 

There are only a handful of ports that can handle the megaships, and they appear to be pretty saturated already with their current cruise visitors. They don't seem to want to build the smaller ones that can go just about anywhere, so what happens when they need to retire the old ones?

 

Is the strategy to convince all the ports to build docks that accommodate the big ships?  Will the build some small ships in the future so that people will be able to go other places than Nassau,  Cozumel, and Grand Turk?  

 

Royal has many more massive ships than Carnival, and it works out just fine.

[longhorn2004]

9 hours ago, Despegue said:

For the Mainstream mass market cruiselines, the target is to have the ship itself as the main destination, and visited ports as a mere “additional attraction “. Keeping guests onboard increases the revenue obviously. 
My info is telling me that at least 2 ships will go to Carnival, one to Aida and another undecided. There is also the probability of additional vessels. 
Also Meyer Shipbuilding is hoping for extra orders for the Helios Class ships ( Mardi Gras and her sisters along the Carnival corp. brands).  

Will it be a variation of the Helios Class or something different?

[BlerkOne]

3 hours ago, Joebucks said:

 

Royal has many more massive ships than Carnival, and it works out just fine.

How's that working in tender ports?

[Despegue]

57 minutes ago, longhorn2004 said:

Will it be a variation of the Helios Class or something different?

I think that Meyer potentially wants indeed more Excellence-class orders ( sorry, Helios class is a subclass of the Excellence class and is used to identify  the Aida vessels), maybe with some minor changes or slight increase in tonnage.

 

the Fincantieri design shobe completely new.

[Butterbean1000]

I'm with those who don't like the mega ships.  The Dream and Vista class is about as big as I  prefer.  I do hope they keep up the smaller, older ships because I think there is still a market out there.   A poster once posted about one of the mega ships and forgetting they were on a ship.  I don't want to forget I'm on a ship.

[jsglow]

Yeah, I think over time cruising is going to morph into sort of a split product line with 'ship as destination' and 'destination cruising' using different kinds of equipment and aimed at different markets. As I've said many times, the mega ships have exactly ZERO interest for me. That they're perfect for someone else is great. What I'm hopeful about is that 'popularly priced' options at Carnival in my niche continue to exist for my remaining cruising time.

[jimbo5544]

5 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

How's that working in tender ports?

Bingo

[john91498]

Looking forward to the mega ships. We won't sail on anything smaller than a Vista class ship anymore.

[Joebucks]

21 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

How's that working in tender ports?

 

Poor example. That's like saying Marriott shouldn't build anymore Ritz Carlton's because "how's Iran?" Just because you can find an example that suits a narrative, doesn't mean that is the outcome if they proceed with a new asset. 

 

It is quite clear that Royal operates just fine with more mega ships in the US with a much higher capacity. If a ship doesn't work for a particular port, then they won't put it there. 

 

Bonus answer: Carnival has started work on a pier for Half Moon Cay. I'd also assume the new Grand Bahama port will be ripe for their growth. The business will continue to evolve. 

[mz-s]

Tender ports will no longer exist to the mainstream lines within a decade or so. The future of cruising with the mainstream lines is proprietary and captive ports like Half Moon Cay, Perfect Day, etc. All of your spend goes through the cruise line from the moment you embark until the moment you debark.

[jsglow]

59 minutes ago, mz-s said:

Tender ports will no longer exist to the mainstream lines within a decade or so. The future of cruising with the mainstream lines is proprietary and captive ports like Half Moon Cay, Perfect Day, etc. All of your spend goes through the cruise line from the moment you embark until the moment you debark.

100% agreement. I've said for a long time that Royal and Carnival are 'vacation' companies. I think Carnival Corp is in a particularly good position to segment their product offerings by brand. Want to travel the world or get to lesser known ports? Here's our HAL product line. A market for that absolutely exists.

[BlerkOne]

3 hours ago, Joebucks said:

 

Poor example. That's like saying Marriott shouldn't build anymore Ritz Carlton's because "how's Iran?" Just because you can find an example that suits a narrative, doesn't mean that is the outcome if they proceed with a new asset. 

 

It is quite clear that Royal operates just fine with more mega ships in the US with a much higher capacity. If a ship doesn't work for a particular port, then they won't put it there. 

 

Bonus answer: Carnival has started work on a pier for Half Moon Cay. I'd also assume the new Grand Bahama port will be ripe for their growth. The business will continue to evolve. 

Not at all. Royal wants to keep cruisers captive. They don't care if customers want to go to Grand Cayman.

 

There are many ports that can't accommodate mega ships either as a home port or as a port stop. Or the millions of people on each sailing. People complain that itineraries are so limited - limiting ports isn't going to help. If someone is going to build a new port, it isn't surprising if some try to accommodate the largest shopping malls out there (like on Grand Bahama).

 

Even Ritz Carlton has built some smaller properties

https://www.ritzcarlton.com/en/hotels-and-resorts/ritz-carlton-reserve/

 

Carnival's newest ship, Jubilee, has a choice of one (1) itinerary. Only the port order might change. Boring.

 

Two different companies - two different business plans. I'll pass on sailing on Royal again.

 

 

 

 

[BlerkOne]

3 hours ago, mz-s said:

Tender ports will no longer exist to the mainstream lines within a decade or so. The future of cruising with the mainstream lines is proprietary and captive ports like Half Moon Cay, Perfect Day, etc. All of your spend goes through the cruise line from the moment you embark until the moment you debark.

 

Welcome to Margaritaville at Sea.

[jsglow]

2 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

 

Welcome to Margaritaville at Sea.

But you have to admit that @mz-s is correct. I just played around with Mardi Gras itineraries. With just a few exceptions, what I pulled up was Nassau, GT, and Amber Cove. Later, Celebration Cay gets tossed in. About 10-12 time a year they do the Mexican run with Cozumel, Costa Maya, and Mahogany Bay. That's it. (Sure, they have a handful of others but the point still stands.) Heck, to make matters worse, Jubilee has ONE itinerary. ONE.

 

In each and every location with the exception of Nassau, Carnival Corp. has a direct financial interest in the port itself. They literally built all of them I believe. They take you on their ship to their port. You want to leave Mahogany Bay on foot? Better memorize the complicated unmarked walking route to get outside the gate like we have before you go. Walking outside of Cozumel is easy. Costa Maya is pretty tough. The architects have gotten smarter (and sneakier) through the years, eh?  That's 100% control of your dollar if I've ever seen it; no different than RCCL.

Edited January 20 by jsglow

[BlerkOne]

29 minutes ago, jsglow said:

But you have to admit that @mz-s is correct. I just played around with Mardi Gras itineraries. With just a few exceptions, what I pulled up was Nassau, GT, and Amber Cove. Later, Celebration Cay gets tossed in. About 10-12 time a year they do the Mexican run with Cozumel, Costa Maya, and Mahogany Bay. That's it. (Sure, they have a handful of others but the point still stands.) Heck, to make matters worse, Jubilee has ONE itinerary. ONE.

 

In each and every location with the exception of Nassau, Carnival Corp. has a direct financial interest in the port itself. They literally built all of them I believe. They take you on their ship to their port. You want to leave Mahogany Bay on foot? Better memorize the complicated unmarked walking route to get outside the gate like we have before you go. Walking outside of Cozumel is easy. Costa Maya is pretty tough. The architects have gotten smarter (and sneakier) through the years, eh?  That's 100% control of your dollar if I've ever seen it; no different than RCCL.

You prove my point. Itineraries are limited for mega ships and any given port can only accept a couple at a time. Mardi Gras is doing a transatlantic is 2025 for a dry dock without doing a single Mediterranean or other European cruise. There is a lot more to the cruising world than the Caribbean. Some people may be happy to stay in a box but many aren't.

 

I've always found it easy to leave Mahogany Bay on foot. And even easier to pay a couple of bucks to take a taxi up the hill (but now there are stairs)

 

Carnival typically partners with locals to build ports. The usually scenario is a rich local buys up all the land surrounding a proposed port and pitches it to Carnival as a joint venture. Once a hurricane destroys them, Carnival buys what is left and rebuilds it.

 

It will be interesting to see if a mega ship can actually be evacuated in an emergency. Heck, cruisers can't follow simple debarkation instructions.

[Joebucks]

3 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

Not at all. Royal wants to keep cruisers captive. They don't care if customers want to go to Grand Cayman.

 

There are many ports that can't accommodate mega ships either as a home port or as a port stop. Or the millions of people on each sailing. People complain that itineraries are so limited - limiting ports isn't going to help. If someone is going to build a new port, it isn't surprising if some try to accommodate the largest shopping malls out there (like on Grand Bahama).

 

Even Ritz Carlton has built some smaller properties

https://www.ritzcarlton.com/en/hotels-and-resorts/ritz-carlton-reserve/

 

Carnival's newest ship, Jubilee, has a choice of one (1) itinerary. Only the port order might change. Boring.

 

Two different companies - two different business plans. I'll pass on sailing on Royal again.

 

And if you wanted to keep cruisers captive, why wouldn't you want them to go to your private ports? Businesses need to grow. We've all acknowledged that the growth isn't going to happen from the small, exotic islands. If they can't support more people, you need to look elsewhere. Creating these new private ports opens a completely new growth strategy. They control or get a cut from the food/drink, excursions, shopping, etc. 

 

Yes there is only so much choice, unfortunately, there is only so much land to go around. However, this is probably one of the best ways to attract those new cruisers. Lots of people who are intimidated by exploring different island may find benefit in what private areas can offer. Hell, I enjoy these areas a bit too. Sometimes it's just nice to be able to have a lazy day. Access to a pool, beach, bar, etc. without having to drop $20-$50 in taxis and wasting limited time. I know this place likes to pretend everyone here only travels the unexplored wilderness with a machete, but it is a nice choice to have. Personally, I really wasn't a fan of Freeport, but I will likely be checking out the new Grand Bahama port.

[BlerkOne]

4 minutes ago, Joebucks said:

 

And if you wanted to keep cruisers captive, why wouldn't you want them to go to your private ports? Businesses need to grow. We've all acknowledged that the growth isn't going to happen from the small, exotic islands. If they can't support more people, you need to look elsewhere. Creating these new private ports opens a completely new growth strategy. They control or get a cut from the food/drink, excursions, shopping, etc. 

 

Yes there is only so much choice, unfortunately, there is only so much land to go around. However, this is probably one of the best ways to attract those new cruisers. Lots of people who are intimidated by exploring different island may find benefit in what private areas can offer. Hell, I enjoy these areas a bit too. Sometimes it's just nice to be able to have a lazy day. Access to a pool, beach, bar, etc. without having to drop $20-$50 in taxis and wasting limited time. I know this place likes to pretend everyone here only travels the unexplored wilderness with a machete, but it is a nice choice to have. Personally, I really wasn't a fan of Freeport, but I will likely be checking out the new Grand Bahama port.

 

Royal would no doubt like to do cruises to nowhere exclusively, but they can't legally do that these days. People get tired of going to the same plastic experience over and over. Unless maybe you have dementia.

 

Personally I like Freeport as a stop. You just need to get outside of the port to discover a new world. Lat time had a great private excursion to the other end of the island, even passing where Carnival was building the new port. At least I got to experience that paradise before it is swamped by mega ships

[mz-s]

19 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

 

Royal would no doubt like to do cruises to nowhere exclusively, but they can't legally do that these days. People get tired of going to the same plastic experience over and over. Unless maybe you have dementia.

 

Personally I like Freeport as a stop. You just need to get outside of the port to discover a new world. Lat time had a great private excursion to the other end of the island, even passing where Carnival was building the new port. At least I got to experience that paradise before it is swamped by mega ships

i agree with blerk… 🤔