Yet another tipping question

[nini]

8 minutes ago, dog said:

May be true for your dd. Not for all . A family crew member has told me that they know- some talk.

Please expand on that. I would be very disappointed if the auto- gratuities do not reach the intended recipients.

[antsp]

4 minutes ago, capriccio said:

Thanks for the explanation.  Do you know whether "tips" refers only to the automatic gratuities and automatic service charges only or if tips handed to servers, stewards, etc. are also pooled?  We were told by both servers and stewards that they got to keep those tips.

No idea, one thing I've learned since she has been onboard, different departments have very little to do with each other

[d9704011]

1 hour ago, nini said:

 

However, do we KNOW that the "crew appreciation" funds ARE being distributed? That is the detail that is worth knowing. I am fine with paying them as long as we are not being lied to. And, of course, doing as you do, reward extra to those we please.

I'm not big on conspiracies and certainly don't think people or companies are deliberately misleading me (I don't like the phrase lying to me) simply because I don't have unfettered access to what isn't, at least to me, my business.

[Tranquility Base]

On 1/31/2024 at 6:48 PM, Tranquility Base said:

Such an easy system, and stops all this "who do gratuities go to, and how much do they get to keep" stuff.

 

On 2/1/2024 at 9:31 AM, Tranquility Base said:

Many cruise lines do not have daily gratuities added.

It makes everything so simple.

 

Just charge the fare and state "GRATUITIES INCLUDED"

Leave the payment contract between Princess and the staff.

None of our business what goes where and to whom.

 

3 hours ago, nini said:

However, do we KNOW that the "crew appreciation" funds ARE being distributed? That is the detail that is worth knowing. I am fine with paying them as long as we are not being lied to. 

Hence one of reasons for my two previous posts.

[nini]

3 hours ago, Tranquility Base said:

 

 

Hence one of reasons for my two previous posts.

I respectfully disagree that it is none of our business. We are the customer who creates the fact that the cruise line has a business. I believe in educated and wise Consumers.

[rideev]

1 hour ago, nini said:

I respectfully disagree that it is none of our business. We are the customer who creates the fact that the cruise line has a business. I believe in educated and wise Consumers.

It's none of my business now what they do with auto gratuities because from this point forward I am removing them.  From what I can read on Princess's own website, they are being  distributed fleet wide, including to people in the shops.  No thanks.  I'll ensure that mine go where I want them to go.

[nini]

13 hours ago, rideev said:

It's none of my business now what they do with auto gratuities because from this point forward I am removing them.  From what I can read on Princess's own website, they are being  distributed fleet wide, including to people in the shops.  No thanks.  I'll ensure that mine go where I want them to go.

 

Thank you. I appreciate your information. It is very frustrating to know this. We typically book with Princess Plus but may need to rethink this. I do not think that the gratuities can be removed from the package on a daily basis. We are Platinum so can get the WiFi for half off. Personally, it is more fun to tip in cash for those who you intend to receive the Kudos.

[Fandango1]

We never cruise unless ALL INCLUSIVE. However we tip Cabin steward / Butler about 50USD week. Cabin attendant 25 week. MDR none because waiters change. Speciality restaurants head waiter/ manager $50 to 100 depending upon level of personal attention. Sommellier only if handling my own personal wine stock. 

[Tranquility Base]

25 minutes ago, Fandango1 said:

We never cruise unless ALL INCLUSIVE.

Yep, we love all inclusive cruise lines.

All this where do my gratuities go and how do I remove gratuities questioning is simply unnecessary when they are included in the base fare.

 

[AnyMajorCruiseDude]

15 hours ago, rideev said:

It's none of my business now what they do with auto gratuities because from this point forward I am removing them.  From what I can read on Princess's own website, they are being  distributed fleet wide, including to people in the shops.  No thanks.  I'll ensure that mine go where I want them to go.

Your logic is odd.  Yes, if JUST you remove your tips and give $ directly to a few who serve you, very little impact on the pool.  If EVERYONE were to remove auto gratuity in this fashion, the POOL would obviously be much smaller.  Yes, your waiter will be happy immediately, but once the pool shrinks and there is less money to pay crew (either in wages, bonuses, recognition, etc), and they will all take a hit.  It would take some time, and the number of people removing the auto gratuity would have to be enough to impact the pool total, but you should be able to see the basic math your choice presents.

Your couple of hundred bucks won't affect anyone right now, but once millions are removed from the pool, there is obviously less money to distribute (in WHATEVER fashion it is distributed).   And yes, I have spoken to crew about this.  They recommend leaving the tips on, and if you choose, tipping additional (but not required).  Most will color their response to whatever suits them best, not necessarily what is best for everyone.

[LACruiser88]

7 minutes ago, AnyMajorCruiseDude said:

Your logic is odd.  Yes, if JUST you remove your tips and give $ directly to a few who serve you, very little impact on the pool.  If EVERYONE were to remove auto gratuity in this fashion, the POOL would obviously be much smaller.  Yes, your waiter will be happy immediately, but once the pool shrinks and there is less money to pay crew (either in wages, bonuses, recognition, etc), and they will all take a hit.  It would take some time, and the number of people removing the auto gratuity would have to be enough to impact the pool total, but you should be able to see the basic math your choice presents.

Your couple of hundred bucks won't affect anyone right now, but once millions are removed from the pool, there is obviously less money to distribute (in WHATEVER fashion it is distributed).   And yes, I have spoken to crew about this.  They recommend leaving the tips on, and if you choose, tipping additional (but not required).  Most will color their response to whatever suits them best, not necessarily what is best for everyone.

Ditto, very well stated!

[Tranquility Base]

2 hours ago, AnyMajorCruiseDude said:

If EVERYONE were to remove auto gratuity in this fashion, the POOL would obviously be much smaller.

This is why I believe Princess will move to 'included' fares for everyone.

Already many cruisers are using that system (plus / premier fares; AUD based ships).

The more the people who are left remove auto gratuities, the more these auto gratuities will increase in price, and the more people will remove them.

 

Therefore, sooner or later fares will include gratuities for everyone who cruises.

[dog]

Princess states Crew Appreciation is discretionary.

It bothered me when I read on here that the gratuities were rolled into crew salaries fleetwide. 
The cruiseline & crew agree to their contracts.

At this point I accept their choice.

It is much easier for me to pay $151 CAD pp/ 7 day Crew Appreciation online pre cruise and I feel I am being fair to all.

What I do does not affect any other passengers.  What others do does not affect me.

Be Kind.

[AnyMajorCruiseDude]

4 hours ago, dog said:

Princess states Crew Appreciation is discretionary.

It bothered me when I read on here that the gratuities were rolled into crew salaries fleetwide. 
The cruiseline & crew agree to their contracts.

At this point I accept their choice.

It is much easier for me to pay $151 CAD pp/ 7 day Crew Appreciation online pre cruise and I feel I am being fair to all.

What I do does not affect any other passengers.  What others do does not affect me.

Be Kind.

What you do eventually affects everything.  Every action creates a reaction.  Either good or bad......

[dog]

1 hour ago, AnyMajorCruiseDude said:

What you do eventually affects everything.  Every action creates a reaction.  Either good or bad......

The executives will make decisions regardless.  I am not into judging others.

Done here

Edited February 4 by dog

[MacMadame]

On 2/2/2024 at 11:27 AM, nini said:

 

However, do we KNOW that the "crew appreciation" funds ARE being distributed? That is the detail that is worth knowing. I am fine with paying them as long as we are not being lied to. And, of course, doing as you do, reward extra to those we please.

Princess is very upfront about this. It's on their website:

All of the Crew Appreciation and Service Charge payments made by all guests on all ships in our fleet are pooled, net of credit card transaction fees. The pooled funds are distributed throughout the year in the form of compensation, including bonuses, to crewmembers fleetwide who interact directly with guests and/or behind the scenes throughout every cruise, including those in the Bar, Dining, Entertainment, Housekeeping, Guest Services, Galley and Onboard Revenue areas.

 

FYI: My understanding is that outside contractors staff the shops and so would not get these tips even though "Onboard Revenue areas" suggests they would. Also, when Princess went to this system, they raised wages to replace some of the lost tips. So staff are getting paid more and then get bonuses out of the pool. This is why they want you to mention them in the survey; so they get a bonus.

 

This is my personal opinion: There are many people who make your cruise experience what it is and you don't necessarily see them all or know who they all are. Your waiter, in particular, has many people behind the scenes that help them serve you. If you give a tip directly to a waiter, you have no idea if those people are also sharing in the tip that they helped the waiter get.

 

Therefore, I am happy to pay a daily Crew Appreciation fee and let the tips be distributed in a way that Princess and staff have agreed to. It's much simpler and I don't have to worry about missing someone. I figure I can always tip a bit more to someone I particularly want to recognize.

[JGmf]

Geez, shaking my head.  Leave the auto-gratuities in, as they are baked-into the expected salaries of the crew.  Take them out = impact crew salaries.  Stop trying to be so clever.

 

Yes, Princess (and other cruise lines) have built these in these b/c it removes from the corporation a load of taxes and other payroll carrying costs were they to include those funds in their base pay.  The phrase "discretionary", and the ability of people to remove them, is the loophole.

 

Anyway, leave them in.  If you want to tip more (like me and lot of others do to recognize people individually), then that's your choice.

[rideev]

57 minutes ago, JGmf said:

Geez, shaking my head.  Leave the auto-gratuities in, as they are baked-into the expected salaries of the crew.  Take them out = impact crew salaries.  Stop trying to be so clever.

 

Yes, Princess (and other cruise lines) have built these in these b/c it removes from the corporation a load of taxes and other payroll carrying costs were they to include those funds in their base pay.  The phrase "discretionary", and the ability of people to remove them, is the loophole.

 

Anyway, leave them in.  If you want to tip more (like me and lot of others do to recognize people individually), then that's your choice.

You do you, I'll do me.  On my next cruise, my auto gratuities will be over $1k.  I'm going to to that much, but directly.  There is nothing to stop process from playing favorites and maybe my cabin steward gets nothing extra from the bonus, or tip pool.  I'll ensure that they get rewarded.

 

Again, I would rather the cruise line pay their people and charge me what they need to charge me and be upfront about it.

 

It's just like the plus and premier, we have a choice.  It is not cost effective for us at all to get one of these packages.  It might be for someone else.  For this upcoming cruise Premier would cost us $4640 additional and plus would be $3480 additional.  No thanks.  I can guarantee you my final bill won't be anywhere near that.  And with $1300 in OBC, I definitely don't need their package.

 

Best part about it all is we each have a choice.

[memoak]

5 minutes ago, rideev said:

You do you, I'll do me.  On my next cruise, my auto gratuities will be over $1k.  I'm going to to that much, but directly.  There is nothing to stop process from playing favorites and maybe my cabin steward gets nothing extra from the bonus, or tip pool.  I'll ensure that they get rewarded.

 

Again, I would rather the cruise line pay their people and charge me what they need to charge me and be upfront about it.

 

It's just like the plus and premier, we have a choice.  It is not cost effective for us at all to get one of these packages.  It might be for someone else.  For this upcoming cruise Premier would cost us $4640 additional and plus would be $3480 additional.  No thanks.  I can guarantee you my final bill won't be anywhere near that.  And with $1300 in OBC, I definitely don't need their package.

 

Best part about it all is we each have a choice.

Anyone who thinks that stewards and servers are not getting anything from pooled tips is living in an alternative reality. When you take off auto tips the people you are actually hurting are the behind the scenes employees that help the people you see do their jobs such as laundry workers, dishwashers etc

[nini]

9 hours ago, MacMadame said:

Princess is very upfront about this. It's on their website:

All of the Crew Appreciation and Service Charge payments made by all guests on all ships in our fleet are pooled, net of credit card transaction fees. The pooled funds are distributed throughout the year in the form of compensation, including bonuses, to crewmembers fleetwide who interact directly with guests and/or behind the scenes throughout every cruise, including those in the Bar, Dining, Entertainment, Housekeeping, Guest Services, Galley and Onboard Revenue areas.

 

FYI: My understanding is that outside contractors staff the shops and so would not get these tips even though "Onboard Revenue areas" suggests they would. Also, when Princess went to this system, they raised wages to replace some of the lost tips. So staff are getting paid more and then get bonuses out of the pool. This is why they want you to mention them in the survey; so they get a bonus.

 

This is my personal opinion: There are many people who make your cruise experience what it is and you don't necessarily see them all or know who they all are. Your waiter, in particular, has many people behind the scenes that help them serve you. If you give a tip directly to a waiter, you have no idea if those people are also sharing in the tip that they helped the waiter get.

 

Therefore, I am happy to pay a daily Crew Appreciation fee and let the tips be distributed in a way that Princess and staff have agreed to. It's much simpler and I don't have to worry about missing someone. I figure I can always tip a bit more to someone I particularly want to recognize.

 

Thank you. I very much appreciate your comments and am aware of the statement from Princess. I can only trust that the staff are indeed receiving ALL of what we pay out. And yes, it is a pleasure to give extra in cash to certain staff. We have been told that they do get to keep it.

[Bgwest]

1 hour ago, JGmf said:

Yes, Princess (and other cruise lines) have built these in these b/c it removes from the corporation a load of taxes and other payroll carrying costs were they to include those funds in their base pay. 

Are we hearing you say that Princess (and other cruise lines) have determined that they can improve their bottom line(s) by shifting a great deal of their employer payroll obligations to the passengers through the scheme known as “crew appreciation”?

 

I wonder how long my business would last if reduced what I pay my employees and to make up for this reduction in salaries added to each invoice I send to my customers a line item that I might call “(Name of Business) Employee Appreciation”. 

By employing this scheme I would be able to significantly reduce my payroll and attempt to make my customers shoulder the shortfall. After all, my guys and gals work really hard and certainly deserve to be individually recognized for their superb customer service BY MY CUSTOMERS with a line item payment. 
 

What could possibly go wrong here?

[jwattle]

1 hour ago, Bgwest said:

Are we hearing you say that Princess (and other cruise lines) have determined that they can improve their bottom line(s) by shifting a great deal of their employer payroll obligations to the passengers through the scheme known as “crew appreciation”?

 

I wonder how long my business would last if reduced what I pay my employees and to make up for this reduction in salaries added to each invoice I send to my customers a line item that I might call “(Name of Business) Employee Appreciation”. 

By employing this scheme I would be able to significantly reduce my payroll and attempt to make my customers shoulder the shortfall. After all, my guys and gals work really hard and certainly deserve to be individually recognized for their superb customer service BY MY CUSTOMERS with a line item payment. 
 

What could possibly go wrong here?

Is your business one that customarily involves tipping? 🙄

[PescadoAmarillo]

3 hours ago, JGmf said:

Yes, Princess (and other cruise lines) have built these in these b/c it removes from the corporation a load of taxes and other payroll carrying costs were they to include those funds in their base pay.  The phrase "discretionary", and the ability of people to remove them, is the loophole.

Walk me through the accounting of this, since you seem to know how taxes and payroll carrying costs are affected by the auto tips. Because I truly don’t understand.  Are these off- P&L and balance sheet transactions? Or is there a separate pool of cash somewhere ON the balance sheet offset by crew wages payable on the balance sheet?  If the tips are pooled (and Princess flat out states that they are) where do they exist from the time they are collected until they are paid out?  I’m not sure how Princess tax payments are affected since they aren’t paying US taxes on foreign employees working outside the US anyway. Or are they?

 

But I do understand one thing you said, and that is that a loophole exists. Do we trust that Princess will take care of its crewmembers if everyone exercises that loophole?   Because that’s really what people are counting on if they opt to take advantage of the loophole. 

[Tranquility Base]

2 hours ago, rideev said:

Again, I would rather the cruise line pay their people and charge me what they need to charge me and be upfront about it.

Yep, expand their "gratuities included in the base fare" system to include all cruisers on all cruises.

 

[Lady Arwen]

3 hours ago, memoak said:

Anyone who thinks that stewards and servers are not getting anything from pooled tips is living in an alternative reality. When you take off auto tips the people you are actually hurting are the behind the scenes employees that help the people you see do their jobs such as laundry workers, dishwashers etc

Thank you for reminding everyone that there are many crew members who we never see, yet work hard to make our vacation so enjoyable.  They deserve to be rewarded, too.