Staffing issues in the MDR.

[vicd1969]

I have learned that even if assigned open dining on my reservation, I make an effort on embarkation day to effectively make it fixed by reserving at a certain time for a fixed number of people. That ensures having the same wait staff and less chance of hit-or-miss service, due to the waiters bonding with you and knowing your preferences. 

[MicCanberra]

5 hours ago, FlaMariner said:

 

Agree.

 

This is the value proposition for fixed dining.  We love it.  Based on our experience, when we have strayed from fixed dining over the years, we have regretted it......From what I've observed, it is so much more efficient for both the passenger and the dining room staff when in fixed dining.

 

(Before getting counseled on here, I realize any time dining should work well and you should expect great service no matter the dining experience you choose...just passing along our observation and experience over the years....If it's not fixed dining, we do not want it....FWIW)

Thanks, that more or less is what I was getting at, which is why I didn't put traditional dining in with open dining. We prefer open and do not expect the waiters to know our likes or dislikes prior to them meeting us.

We do however expect to have water and bread within 5 minutes of being seated. We do expect to have drink orders taken within another 5 minutes after that. we do expect to have our food orders within 5-10 minutes after that, which means with 20 minutes of sitting down. Once we ordered we expect a 10-15 minute wait between courses.

I do not think that is unreasonable and some nights it was delivered, others it was even quicker but some nights it was no where near being like that.

[MicCanberra]

4 hours ago, Mary229 said:

My successful strategy on the Oosterdam last month was to do anytime dining until I found a team that was a good fit for us.  We then went to the manager and had that table blocked out for us.  It did take 4 or 5 evenings before we found that team. 

A nice strategy but it effectively takes away the anytime dining. We like to eat when we feel like eating which is sometimes early, sometimes late and most times in between. That is why fixed dining doesn't suit us. Another reason is we often catch up with others to dine with, fixed dining doesn't cater for that.

[OlsSalt]

12 minutes ago, MicCanberra said:

Thanks, that more or less is what I was getting at, which is why I didn't put traditional dining in with open dining. We prefer open and do not expect the waiters to know our likes or dislikes prior to them meeting us.

We do however expect to have water and bread within 5 minutes of being seated. We do expect to have drink orders taken within another 5 minutes after that. we do expect to have our food orders within 5-10 minutes after that, which means with 20 minutes of sitting down. Once we ordered we expect a 10-15 minute wait between courses.

I do not think that is unreasonable and some nights it was delivered, others it was even quicker but some nights it was no where near being like that.

 

Honestly, do expect to try another cruise line - one that is much more high-touch and most likely a lot more expensive than HAL. Unlikely you will ever come close to your expectations on a mass market HAL ship. 

[MicCanberra]

3 minutes ago, OlsSalt said:

 

Honestly, do expect to try another cruise line - one that is much more high-touch and most likely a lot more expensive than HAL. Unlikely you will ever come close to your expectations on a mass market HAL ship. 

Yet, it has been met on Hal, just not consistently in the anytime dining.

[sciencewonk]

We've done two cruises on Noordam in the past two years.  Fixed seating in the MDR and we even had the same waiter, Mahfud, both times.  He was great.  Not only did he take care of us after he got to know our quirks, but he kept a careful eye on his assistants, on of whom was on his first cruise.

 

A side note.  Mahfud was the first crew member we saw when we boarded our second cruise, which was delightful.  It was even better when we found out that he was our waiter.

[syesmar]

13 hours ago, MicCanberra said:

We have just returned from 22 nights on the Oosterdam….

On one night we were seated for 1 hour before our orders were taken, service was generally very slow and it seemed to me that there were staff missing compared with other cruises we have been on….

Thanks for sharing your experience! That’s a very long time to wait. Years ago, one cruise we started experiencing long delays on the front end, too. We then tried being familiar with the menu in advance and ready to order as soon as we sat down and telling them we were in a bit of a hurry. On that sailing it seemed to work, but I will admit the majority of our dinners after that sailing were in the Lido. (Also agree with the comment that isolation for illness may have played a factor on your sailing).

[Gail & Marty sailing away]

6 hours ago, mawvkysc said:

@Gail & Marty sailing away that’s good to hear. Do you think there will be much turnover at the end of the GWV? I’ll be on the TA. (Fixed Dining)

Since past covid days, even on the World Cruise there are big Crew changing days, and yes in Singapore we have a lot of crew leaving.

[REOVA]

1 hour ago, MicCanberra said:

Yet, it has been met on Hal, just not consistently in the anytime dining.

You won't find HAL in "consistently". Just an L, so 2/3's of the time you won't know what to expect. 🤣. This is across the board when dealing with Customer Service, emails, Mariner amenities, supply,  etc. I get different answers to the same questions. 

 

Unfortunately it's been this way for 3 years now but appears they are trying to get better. We just need to help them along (and they appreciate that). Some have posted that they let the servers know ahead that they want to be somewhere by xx:xx and the crew oblige. Not saying we should have to do that, but we are all on the same ship for a while so we have to communicate and make the best of our time. They will remember you. 

 

We still keep in touch will many crew that no longer sail. Many of the crew now are new and sharpening their skills (especially when faced with inevitable slip ups). Crew is one of the reasons we sail HAL (and of course itinerary which you said) and it does crimp a smooth cruise when problems arise, but doesn't sway us to leave. We sail other lines that may have better food and service (and entertainment) but not better crew, small ships and itineraries of HAL unless we want to spend much more. 

[MicCanberra]

1 hour ago, syesmar said:

Thanks for sharing your experience! That’s a very long time to wait. Years ago, one cruise we started experiencing long delays on the front end, too. We then tried being familiar with the menu in advance and ready to order as soon as we sat down and telling them we were in a bit of a hurry. On that sailing it seemed to work, but I will admit the majority of our dinners after that sailing were in the Lido. (Also agree with the comment that isolation for illness may have played a factor on your sailing).

We were not alone in our experience for this particular cruise, on a fb page for our cruise, there were numerous others making note of the service or lack thereof.

Such as these 2 comments.

1) This has been a wonderful cruise. I can’t say enough about it. But… has anyone experienced the dining room as the worst place to eat? I have tried to be nice but after an hour and a half waiting for our dinner, it is a bit much. We have also had to ask for drinks. Our waiter seems to have deserted us. The salad was not  up to par and I am not sure if we will ever see our dinner. This is our first time in the dining room and will probably be the last for this cruise. It’s really not busy either. Not sure what’s going on. We are a 4 star and have never had this happen.

2) We were on second floor the first few nights of cruise and found service to be sketchy. Got lucky and have a set time and table at 8 pm on floor 3. Service and food have been fabulous.

 

[cccole]

Wow.  So sad that many have had such negative experiences on the Oosterdam.  We were on the ship 1/7-1/29.  We had anytime dining.  Do not like early dining and 8 pm was a bit late to make it to the late show.  So we usually went to the MDR @7-7:15.  We were always seated within a few minutes and the service was good to awesome.  Several times we had others joining us.  We had staff ask us to request their table.  If we had been sitting at a table for an hour without anyone taking our order we would have been gone 30 minutes prior to that 1 hour mark.  I can't imagine waiting 1 hour without talking to someone.  The dining room did not seem to be full, except on port days when everyone returned late.  There is always turnover of staff depending on when their contracts are up.  It was nice to hear that some of the staff in the MDR would soon be leaving for a visit with their families.

 

0106's post is what we experienced.  If we were in a hurry we would did not  choose the MDR and expect to receive soup to nuts in 1 hour.  The MDR experience is a relaxed dining experience.  If you do not want to spend a lot of time do not order an app and dessert.  The dining room manager and/or the assistant dining room manager always made a stop to make sure everything was o.k.

 

I congratulate the management and staff of the MDR for putting up with the requests and changes by passengers.  At times it was a bit shocking as to how passengers thought they were superior to anyone else on the ship and how they treated the staff.  This is our experience and my opinion.  Cherie

 

 

 

Edited February 28 by cccole

[cruisemom42]

I have for many years heard that having fixed seating makes for better service, but I can say that such was not the case on my November TA on Nieuw Statendam. 

 

I normally opt for Anytime dining as I don't like to commit to a fixed time when on a port-intensive cruise. However, since this cruise was a TA with many sea days, and the acquaintance who was also onboard wanted to select fixed late, we did that and had a table for 8 (though in reality only 7).

 

Dinner was very slow and there were repeated errors -- some courses for some diners never showed up, others got things they didn't order. There was no effort to serve or clear properly. On more than one night, one of our group was given a piece of cutlery that obviously wasn't clean.

 

Contrary to what I've often read about fixed dining waiters remembering drink preferences, the bar service was very haphazard. No one ever took the trouble to figure out if anyone had a standing drink order (I didn't, but some people did). And while I am one who enjoys an espresso after dessert almost every night, no one bothered to remember and some nights the espresso never arrived even after I enquired after it multiple times.

 

Several of those at the table took it in turns to bring the issues to the attention of the staff. Interestingly, service did not really improve but it did lead to the maitre d' stopping by the table awkwardly asking how things were. He wasn't happy to hear "Much the same..."

 

I have to say that I don't think I've been missing much doing the Anytime dining!!

 

(The worst was one of the bar service folks who would roll up to the table with various glasses of wine and no idea who had ordered what. She would just holler, "Anyone order a Sauvignon Blanc?" Totally unprofessional in a dining room environment. We're not in a neighborhood bar.)

 

[REOVA]

2 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

I have for many years heard that having fixed seating makes for better service, but I can say that such was not the case on my November TA on Nieuw Statendam. 

 

I normally opt for Anytime dining as I don't like to commit to a fixed time when on a port-intensive cruise. However, since this cruise was a TA with many sea days, and the acquaintance who was also onboard wanted to select fixed late, we did that and had a table for 8 (though in reality only 7).

 

Dinner was very slow and there were repeated errors -- some courses for some diners never showed up, others got things they didn't order. There was no effort to serve or clear properly. On more than one night, one of our group was given a piece of cutlery that obviously wasn't clean.

 

Contrary to what I've often read about fixed dining waiters remembering drink preferences, the bar service was very haphazard. No one ever took the trouble to figure out if anyone had a standing drink order (I didn't, but some people did). And while I am one who enjoys an espresso after dessert almost every night, no one bothered to remember and some nights the espresso never arrived even after I enquired after it multiple times.

 

Several of those at the table took it in turns to bring the issues to the attention of the staff. Interestingly, service did not really improve but it did lead to the maitre d' stopping by the table awkwardly asking how things were. He wasn't happy to hear "Much the same..."

 

I have to say that I don't think I've been missing much doing the Anytime dining!!

 

(The worst was one of the bar service folks who would roll up to the table with various glasses of wine and no idea who had ordered what. She would just holler, "Anyone order a Sauvignon Blanc?" Totally unprofessional in a dining room environment. We're not in a neighborhood bar.)

 

I find the service on the Pinnacle ships more chaotic than the smaller ships. Even before the shut down it seemed the size of the MDR rattled the crew (along with the noisy acoustics). Most of the crew we talk with prefer the smaller more intimate ships. During down time it's not as bad but having more passengers onboard, all coming at a set time (or a bulk at same time during open seating) frazzles the kitchen and servers. Unfortunately paying for Club Orange while  less chaotic, limits who you can meet and sit with if that is a goal. 

[Mary229]

29 minutes ago, REOVA said:

I find the service on the Pinnacle ships more chaotic than the smaller ships. Even before the shut down it seemed the size of the MDR rattled the crew (along with the noisy acoustics). Most of the crew we talk with prefer the smaller more intimate ships. During down time it's not as bad but having more passengers onboard, all coming at a set time (or a bulk at same time during open seating) frazzles the kitchen and servers. Unfortunately paying for Club Orange while  less chaotic, limits who you can meet and sit with if that is a goal. 

I have said many times that I think the root of the problem is the proliferation of specialty dining which spreads the restaurant staff thin.  I don’t know the numbers but it seems apparent that the pinnacle ship has the same ratio of restaurant staff to passengers as does any other ship but far more venues.  We noted tonight that there is only the waiters and the dining room manager.  On smaller ships there is the wait staff, a section manager and a dining room manager 

[MicCanberra]

Staffing is definitely an issue, 2 waiters handling the station (a whole section of the mdr) where as on the Noordam there would be at least 4.

[scubacruiserx2]

14 hours ago, MicCanberra said:

Thanks, that more or less is what I was getting at, which is why I didn't put traditional dining in with open dining. We prefer open and do not expect the waiters to know our likes or dislikes prior to them meeting us.

We do however expect to have water and bread within 5 minutes of being seated. We do expect to have drink orders taken within another 5 minutes after that. we do expect to have our food orders within 5-10 minutes after that, which means with 20 minutes of sitting down. Once we ordered we expect a 10-15 minute wait between courses.

I do not think that is unreasonable and some nights it was delivered, others it was even quicker but some nights it was no where near being like that.

 

 We don't think that a greeting , bread and water is too much to ask on a cruise ship , even prisoners get that . 🙂😊

[0106]

14 hours ago, MicCanberra said:

We were not alone in our experience for this particular cruise, on a fb page for our cruise, there were numerous others making note of the service or lack thereof.

The time to complain is immediately, not after the fact on a social media site.  I would have spoken to the dining room manager and followed up using the Let Is Know feature of the Navigator App, including checking the box that I wanted to be contacted.

14 hours ago, cccole said:

I congratulate the management and staff of the MDR for putting up with the requests and changes by passengers.  At times it was a bit shocking as to how passengers thought they were superior to anyone else on the ship and how they treated the staff. 

I agree.  Two nights, Anytime diners were seated next to us.  The first couple ordered their steaks medium rare.  When they were served, they complained to each other that the steaks weren’t rare (I heard them order medium rare) but continued to eat them.  When the server came to check on them, they told him the steaks weren’t rare.  He offered to replace them.  They declined but continued to complain after he walked away making for a very unpleasant dining experience for us.  Another night, the man ordered a nonalcoholic Heineken.  The beverage server came to the table with a nonalcoholic Coors saying there was no Heineken. He berated her, I thought she was going to cry.  She said she would find some for him.  She was gone about 15 minutes and said she had checked all the bars but none was available.  He said he had it earlier on the ship, this argument continued until the manager had to intervene.  Another unpleasant dining experience created by a passenger. 

11 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

Several of those at the table took it in turns to bring the issues to the attention of the staff. Interestingly, service did not really improve but it did lead to the maitre d' stopping by the table awkwardly asking how things were. He wasn't happy to hear "Much the same..."

I would have escalated this situation to the Food & Beverage manager if the maitre d couldn’t correct the problem.  
 

The original question @MicCanberra ask was, “Was it just our cruise/ ship, or is it occurring fleet wide?, is it cost cutting having less staff doing more?”  
I believe the problem is less staff doing more.  But, I believe the staff is doing their best.  And that professional service is improving with each cruise.  I had a good experience on the Oosterdam.  I am boarding the Nieuw Statendam on Sunday for two weeks.  I will compare my service in dining rooms of the two ships when I return.

[OlsSalt]

Sounds like more passengers are  now making more individual demands is part of the equation too. Before dining was pretty much a group affair. You ate what was put in front of you. You ate around what you did not like.  HAL was much more a meat and potatoes standard banquet type dining setting when we first started back in 2009.

 

"Vegetarian" options were just starting to make inroads beyond a plate of steamed vegetables. Factor in now the large number of individual dietary accommodations and personal consultations required of dining staff for every meal, that did not happen even a few years ago.

 

Fact of life now. Same numbers of staff perhaps, but the individual diner attention demands have grown tremendously.  There are only so many staff beds available on any given ship. There is a limit to what staff members can offer individual passengers. Have we reached a tipping point?

[cbr663]

21 hours ago, MicCanberra said:

Yet, it has been met on Hal, just not consistently in the anytime dining.

 

I concur with others who have experienced the inconsistency on HAL.  It's a huge problem as it means little more than you roll your dice and take your chances.  Last year we sailed on the Koningsdam to Alaska and had a wonderful experience in the CO dining room.  So much so that we booked the same ship 6 months later and we were disappointed with the CO dining room experience.  Same ship, different crew.

 

My previous work experience and my own personal experience has taught me that this is a management problem.  Visit this board often and you will often see that one thing HAL is consistent is that it is inconsistent.  This applies to the short side service  (with frequent comments call back until you get the answer you know is correct) and ship board service.

 

Were you expecting too much for a dining experience?  Certainly not.  Were you expecting too much on a HAL ship?  Sadly, most likely so.

[MicCanberra]

5 hours ago, 0106 said:

The time to complain is immediately, not after the fact on a social media site.  I would have spoken to the dining room manager and followed up using the Let Is Know feature of the Navigator App, including checking the box that I wanted to be contacted.

I agree.  Two nights, Anytime diners were seated next to us.  The first couple ordered their steaks medium rare.  When they were served, they complained to each other that the steaks weren’t rare (I heard them order medium rare) but continued to eat them.  When the server came to check on them, they told him the steaks weren’t rare.  He offered to replace them.  They declined but continued to complain after he walked away making for a very unpleasant dining experience for us.  Another night, the man ordered a nonalcoholic Heineken.  The beverage server came to the table with a nonalcoholic Coors saying there was no Heineken. He berated her, I thought she was going to cry.  She said she would find some for him.  She was gone about 15 minutes and said she had checked all the bars but none was available.  He said he had it earlier on the ship, this argument continued until the manager had to intervene.  Another unpleasant dining experience created by a passenger. 

I would have escalated this situation to the Food & Beverage manager if the maitre d couldn’t correct the problem.  
 

The original question @MicCanberra ask was, “Was it just our cruise/ ship, or is it occurring fleet wide?, is it cost cutting having less staff doing more?”  
I believe the problem is less staff doing more.  But, I believe the staff is doing their best.  And that professional service is improving with each cruise.  I had a good experience on the Oosterdam.  I am boarding the Nieuw Statendam on Sunday for two weeks.  I will compare my service in dining rooms of the two ships when I return.

Complaints were registered both immediately and a little later for the worst times however, when things are a little off you let it slide, as you don't want it consuming your whole trip.

Have a great cruise and just make sure you book fixed dining.

[cruisemom42]

30 minutes ago, MicCanberra said:

and just make sure you book fixed dining.

 

...or not.

[0106]

31 minutes ago, MicCanberra said:

Have a great cruise and just make sure you book fixed dining.

I think that you started a very interesting and useful thread Mic.  

I have Club Orange on my cruise departing Sunday but I am committed to visiting the MDR at least once strictly for comparison purposes.

[cruisemom42]

3 hours ago, OlsSalt said:

Sounds like more passengers are  now making more individual demands is part of the equation too. Before dining was pretty much a group affair. You ate what was put in front of you. You ate around what you did not like.  HAL was much more a meat and potatoes standard banquet type dining setting when we first started back in 2009.

 

"Vegetarian" options were just starting to make inroads beyond a plate of steamed vegetables. Factor in now the large number of individual dietary accommodations and personal consultations required of dining staff for every meal, that did not happen even a few years ago.

 

Fact of life now. Same numbers of staff perhaps, but the individual diner attention demands have grown tremendously.  There are only so many staff beds available on any given ship. There is a limit to what staff members can offer individual passengers. Have we reached a tipping point?

 

You frequently make this comment but fail to take into consideration that main dining rooms on cruise ships formerly offered far more courses during evening dining (see links to old menus below). It was not uncommon for dinners to enjoy at least 5 courses (more on formal nights) for any MDR evening.

 

AND things did not arrive at your table entirely pre-plated. Salads were dressed at table. Vegetables arrived and were offered, to be individually placed on your plate. Table-side preparation of certain dishes was not uncommon. A cheese cart would be wheeled around for you to make your selections.

 

All of this takes time and involves interaction. I remember dining with others onboard ships as a youngster where just consulting the wine menu for the most appropriate pairings took a good 5-10 minutes per party. And the delight of watching them prepare cherries jubilee.

 

What's different now is not the pickiness of the customer but the fact that servers have many more passengers, on average, to serve.

 

1969 HAL Dinner Menu: 

 

1982 HAL Dinner Menu:  

 

 

 

Edited February 28 by cruisemom42
forgot to include menus

[REOVA]

20 minutes ago, 0106 said:

I think that you started a very interesting and useful thread Mic.  

I have Club Orange on my cruise departing Sunday but I am committed to visiting the MDR at least once strictly for comparison purposes.

Assuming it's a Pinnacle Ship, yes, I would suggest it, just for comparison.  And try to tell us details (time of day, sea day, etc). 🙂

[Blackduck59]

I have spent some time reading many replies to the OP @MicCanberra some were quite condescending in tone. I dare say most with no knowledge of his cruise experience. One suggested his expectations were to high and he should try other "mass market" cruise lines. Others suggested that "special orders" from guests was the problem.

I think that perhaps we should look at this situation in a different way. Think of anytime dining as a very large restaurant with a large number of expected diners but no set time they will arrive. The managers do however know (or should know) that there will be a line up when the MDR opens. They also know who is in that line at what time; so they should have a clue how many staff they need for that load.

As for special orders, people have allergies, and medical conditions that affect their lives every day. They usually aren't being picky (although there are those who just have to be special). My wife would love to have dishes with tomatoes, or mangoes but she's allergic. She would love to check out the full desert menu but alas, she's diabetic. Special orders are needed by many people, and they fill out their order the night before.

The problem is lack of organization. Plates come out on large trays and then the servers spend a lot of time clanging lids while they try to figure out what goes where.

I don't think Mic has unreasonable expectations, most people would have those expectations when going for dinner at a restaurant on land. The difference on land the restaurant knows there is a table down the road if they fail to provide proper service. On a cruise ship guests don't have that option.