Question about bartender gratuities

[TRLD]

According to Princess web site service charges and gratuities are pooled. The group that receives payouts from the pool include bar staff.

 

https://www.princess.com/html/global/disclaimers/crew-appreciation/

[TRLD]

4 hours ago, cruzsnooze said:

Not the answer people here want to hear but the right answer that most people abide by. How many times do people want to tip for the same service? I don't like the auto gratuity, it's to high and I reduce it at guest services. Princess keeps too much of it with admin fees and allocating what was supposed to be gratuity into employee incentives, employee parties, and such. With the quantity of people on this board that tip over and above I'm sure they're getting in excess of the auto amounts.

Very much wrong.

 

Actually, the only thing Princess is allowed to keep is credit card service fees, the same as if you tip on land in the US.

 

All of the cruise line holding companies are listed on US stock exchanges. That means that they have to meet US accounting standards and SEC rules for financial filings. There are certain rules that allows companies to process gratuities outside of the companies financials. That is the monies received are not included as income, nor the monies paid out recorded as an expense. The requirement for such treatment is that all.such funds received must be paid to the crew.

 

The only money that can be withheld is the actual charges for credit card processing for any amounts paid by credit card.  Same as a local restaurant when you pay your bill by CC and add the tip to the bill.

 

They cannot as you claim charge any kind of administrative fee.

 

It would be pretty clear on the financial filings if any of the major cruise line companies (CCL, RCL, NCLH) were to lose the ability to handle accounting for gratuities in that fashion. As such one can be pretty certain that the accounting standards are being followed.

[memoak]

12 hours ago, TRLD said:

According to Princess web site service charges and gratuities are pooled. The group that receives payouts from the pool include bar staff.

 

https://www.princess.com/html/global/disclaimers/crew-appreciation/

That posting just says Bar not bartenders. Per a friend who is a bartender the wait staff is included but bartenders are under a separate contract

[MacMadame]

51 minutes ago, memoak said:

That posting just says Bar not bartenders. Per a friend who is a bartender the wait staff is included but bartenders are under a separate contract

Bartenders work in the bar. How can they not be included?

[memoak]

7 minutes ago, MacMadame said:

Bartenders work in the bar. How can they not be included?

Just relating what I was told on board last month. 

[1025cruise]

Obviously the bartenders are happy with their contract or there wouldn't be any bartenders aboard.

[MacMadame]

46 minutes ago, memoak said:

Just relating what I was told on board last month. 

Oh, I believe they have their own contract. I just think it's largely the same and includes getting money from the pool in the form of bonuses. I don't think Princess would put on their website that bar staff gets money from the pool if it's not true.

[555]

I'm just curious if anyone knows but when sailing with either package and since the gratuities are already included, if a person only drinks 10 drinks a day, who gets to keep the gratuities for the unordered 5 drinks? Princess or the bartender pool? 

[Cruise Raider]

15 hours ago, TRLD said:

Very much wrong.

 

Actually, the only thing Princess is allowed to keep is credit card service fees, the same as if you tip on land in the US.

 

All of the cruise line holding companies are listed on US stock exchanges. That means that they have to meet US accounting standards and SEC rules for financial filings. There are certain rules that allows companies to process gratuities outside of the companies financials. That is the monies received are not included as income, nor the monies paid out recorded as an expense. The requirement for such treatment is that all.such funds received must be paid to the crew.

 

The only money that can be withheld is the actual charges for credit card processing for any amounts paid by credit card.  Same as a local restaurant when you pay your bill by CC and add the tip to the bill.

 

They cannot as you claim charge any kind of administrative fee.

 

It would be pretty clear on the financial filings if any of the major cruise line companies (CCL, RCL, NCLH) were to lose the ability to handle accounting for gratuities in that fashion. As such one can be pretty certain that the accounting standards are being followed.

Thank you for this!  
Sometimes people just like an excuse for penny pinching at the expense of a hard working crew!  

[TRLD]

2 hours ago, 555 said:

I'm just curious if anyone knows but when sailing with either package and since the gratuities are already included, if a person only drinks 10 drinks a day, who gets to keep the gratuities for the unordered 5 drinks? Princess or the bartender pool? 

My understanding is that when a package is purchased a lump sum is contributed to the pool for each day on the package.

The daily gratuity amount, and the service charge on the package sale Itself. If daily  gratuity is 16 and the 18% service charge on the 60 package would be 10.80 resulting in $26.80 going into the pool each day. No need to track individual drink service charges.

Edited May 11 by TRLD

[Potstech]

And sometimes people think if you do not due it their way then you must be depriving the hard working crew of some thing that they never had in the first place. Oh well some people and their money.

[nasa1974]

I generally tip my room steward at the end of the cruise.

My go to bar is Crooners. By the end of the first night, they know what I am drinking. The next night I sit at the bar and they bring me my drink. I will almost always get a refill before walk ups during the time I am at the bar. I typically tip $5 a night. To me it's worth the attention.

[voljeep]

15 hours ago, nasa1974 said:

I generally tip my room steward at the beginning (bribe) of the cruise.

My go to bar is Vines. By the end of the first night, they know what I am drinking. The next night I sit at the bar and they bring me my drink. I will almost always get a refill before walk ups during the time I am at the bar. I typically tip $5 a night. To me it's worth the attention.

Mine in orange

[JGmf]

The OP pretty much asked a Yes or no question.  I can't help on the question of whether bartenders get a flat gratuities share of the Plus package, and to me, it's moot.  

 

Everyone should tip or not tip based on their own views and conscience, but I tip bartenders continually through a cruise.  I can visibly see I get better service; but even more importantly, I know this is their long hours working livelihood, not their hobby.  

[rideev]

The real question, and no one is answering, is how much of the Plus and/or Premier is Princess adding to the CA pool?  If the $60 is a savings, then Princess is either not putting the allotted amount into the CA pool, or they are not using any of it to pay for their Satellite, or their drinks, etc.  I would suggest that if you have the Plus or Premier, then princess doesn't pull the $16, $17, or $18 out of the $60 or $80 and put it into the CA pot.

 

And notice, princess calls it crew appreciation, not gratuities or tips.  And it is pooled fleet wide and given out as Princess sees fit.  The people that make your cruise amazing may or may not get a dime of that CA money.

[dreaminofcruisin]

Regardless of whether or not you feel like tipping above the amount of included gratuities....the MOST important thing you can do if you have exemplary service from a crew member, is mention them in the post cruise survey. I have been told by several of them that this plays into their bonus pay and time off.

 

I'm 'in the middle' on the additional gratuities. If I have a steward, server and/or bartender that provides better than average service, I might give them a few dollars at the end of the cruise. Some cruises I find no one that fits the bill. Last fall on the Enchanted, I nearly ran out of my tip cash as there were so many that were outstanding!

[d9704011]

52 minutes ago, rideev said:

If the $60 is a savings, then Princess is either not putting the allotted amount into the CA pool, or they are not using any of it to pay for their Satellite, or their drinks, etc.

What do think it actually costs Princess to provide internet, drinks, casual dining, etc... on average, each day of a cruise?? If a passenger pays $60 per day for a seven day cruise, the total is $420.  Over the course of the seven days, let's say 40 drinks are consumed and a couple of pizzas are eaten.  Internet is probably less than $2 per day, drinks cost $2 each and the entire rest of the Plus Package is probably not costing more than $20.  So, the total cost to Princess for the week is 7 x $2 plus 40 x $2 plus $20... a grand total of $114!!!  Plenty left over to make contributions to CA pool, take a profit, etc....

 

Even though I fabricted the numbers, I believe the service staff and bar staff aren't being short-changed by Princess as a result of passengers choosing to purchase packages.

[rideev]

9 minutes ago, d9704011 said:

 

Even though I fabricted the numbers, I believe the service staff and bar staff aren't being short-changed by Princess as a result of passengers choosing to purchase packages.

I believe more along the lines that Princess has entered into a contract with their employees and they have an agreed upon salary that both parties are happy with.  Then Princess tries to get people into the Plus and Premier packages as they know that they are money makers for the cruise line.  Then they don't put any of the money from Plus and Premier into the CA pool.

[memoak]

21 minutes ago, d9704011 said:

What do think it actually costs Princess to provide internet, drinks, casual dining, etc... on average, each day of a cruise?? If a passenger pays $60 per day for a seven day cruise, the total is $420.  Over the course of the seven days, let's say 40 drinks are consumed and a couple of pizzas are eaten.  Internet is probably less than $2 per day, drinks cost $2 each and the entire rest of the Plus Package is probably not costing more than $20.  So, the total cost to Princess for the week is 7 x $2 plus 40 x $2 plus $20... a grand total of $114!!!  Plenty left over to make contributions to CA pool, take a profit, etc....

 

Even though I fabricted the numbers, I believe the service staff and bar staff aren't being short-changed by Princess as a result of passengers choosing to purchase packages.

You know that Elon Musk is charging big time for the WiFi. I drink a minimum of 70 drinks per week and my wife as well   Those who don’t want packages can watch me enjoy myself especially the ones who ask if I have extra drinks left over around 1 am

 

[Potstech]

For many of us without a drink packages we have better things to do than watch someone drink on average 10 drinks a day.  Especially when they seem to indicate others should follow their example. I wonder how many actually ask or even have knowledge you have left over drinks unless you tell them.

[TRLD]

3 hours ago, rideev said:

The real question, and no one is answering, is how much of the Plus and/or Premier is Princess adding to the CA pool?  If the $60 is a savings, then Princess is either not putting the allotted amount into the CA pool, or they are not using any of it to pay for their Satellite, or their drinks, etc.  I would suggest that if you have the Plus or Premier, then princess doesn't pull the $16, $17, or $18 out of the $60 or $80 and put it into the CA pot.

 

And notice, princess calls it crew appreciation, not gratuities or tips.  And it is pooled fleet wide and given out as Princess sees fit.  The people that make your cruise amazing may or may not get a dime of that CA money.

As I said above it is my understanding that for each day purchased Princess contributions the amount equal to the daily crew appreciation. In addition there is an 18% service charge on the package purchase itself. So if your crew appreciation is $16 and your if your package was 60 then the service charge would be 10.40. So in that case the daily contribution to the pool would be 26.40 

 

Alcohol drinks in a land based venue general cost about 20% of the charged price. Probably a bit lower on board ship. But even at that figure even if one drank all of their 15 alcoholic drinks each day and their cost was $15 each. The cruise lines actual cost would be $45. Just about break even for package minus the crew appreciation. Of course most do not drink all 15 alcoholic drinks. 

 

Most of the other inclusions in the package, specialty dining, internet, has very little incremental costs. Really does not increase the ships expenses.

 

So the only real cost is opportunity cost on additional.sales that they might have made. Apparently the cruise lines have done the calculations and are quite willing to take a locked in package amount per day in trade for some potential loss of additional sales which may or may not happen.

 

Now if those 15 drinks at $15 each weee purchased independently the service charge on 225 is quite a bit more than in 60 (40.50 vs the 10.50 on the package sale) Again the issue is on average how many of those drinks would have happened vs the packages sold.

 

It is likely that bar staff is doing more work with packages compared to ala carte sales.

[TRLD]

2 hours ago, d9704011 said:

What do think it actually costs Princess to provide internet, drinks, casual dining, etc... on average, each day of a cruise?? If a passenger pays $60 per day for a seven day cruise, the total is $420.  Over the course of the seven days, let's say 40 drinks are consumed and a couple of pizzas are eaten.  Internet is probably less than $2 per day, drinks cost $2 each and the entire rest of the Plus Package is probably not costing more than $20.  So, the total cost to Princess for the week is 7 x $2 plus 40 x $2 plus $20... a grand total of $114!!!  Plenty left over to make contributions to CA pool, take a profit, etc....

 

Even though I fabricted the numbers, I believe the service staff and bar staff aren't being short-changed by Princess as a result of passengers choosing to purchase packages.

The internet, specialty dining, etc are basically fixed costs got any given cruise, same as labor, fuel costs, etc.

Total food spend runs about $15 per passenger per day, including crew food costs. So very little variable costs for anything in the package. Amount the only variable cost would be the cost of alcohol. If someone maxes out the drinks then the actual package costs would be about break even for that passenger.

 

So for the cruise lines they prefer locking in the fixed package prices, compared to ala carte sales. They have all of the data which we do not and they clearly have come to the conclusion that the Packages drive revenue.

 

 Suspect that locking in the package costs with the cost of the cruise, eliminating that onboard spend, may also result in passengers more willing to spend on non package items, retail, spa, casino, excursions, etc.

 

 

 

Edited May 13 by TRLD

[TRLD]

2 hours ago, rideev said:

I believe more along the lines that Princess has entered into a contract with their employees and they have an agreed upon salary that both parties are happy with.  Then Princess tries to get people into the Plus and Premier packages as they know that they are money makers for the cruise line.  Then they don't put any of the money from Plus and Premier into the CA pool.

They have agreed on a contract with their employees. That contract also includes those that will be part of the pool funded by employee appreciation and service charges. Just as with the deals that the cruise lines offered that included the employee appreciation payments, the same exists with the packages. The same funds go into the pool. The big difference is if you buy a package you cannot remove or reduce the crew appreciation. So more money is probably going into the pool on average from those buying packages thsn those that do not. Since a percentage of those that do not buy packages can cancel or reduce crew appreciation. Those purchasing packages cannot.

[MacMadame]

2 hours ago, rideev said:

I believe more along the lines that Princess has entered into a contract with their employees and they have an agreed upon salary that both parties are happy with.  Then Princess tries to get people into the Plus and Premier packages as they know that they are money makers for the cruise line.  Then they don't put any of the money from Plus and Premier into the CA pool.

I don't think they can do that legally. They need to follow GEA practices and, if they don't, the IRS will be all over them. Especially as they use CA to supplement salaries -- that they have to pay according to contracts. So where is that money coming from if they don't put CA from the packages into the pool?

[TRLD]

8 minutes ago, MacMadame said:

I don't think they can do that legally. They need to follow GEA practices and, if they don't, the IRS will be all over them. Especially as they use CA to supplement salaries -- that they have to pay according to contracts. So where is that money coming from if they don't put CA from the packages into the pool?

Considering that their crew based employees are non US, the companies themselves are not US companies, the IRS really does not enter the picture, except for their US based employees and some US based operations none of which have anything to do with the pool.

 

The SEC is involved because they are listed on US stock exchanges and must meet US accounting and reporting standards.

 

On the other hand there is an entire set of rules dealing with maritime employment and contracts.