Is this discrimination

[Adawn47]

31 minutes ago, zap99 said:

I don't have a stake in this...but. On our last cruise a few folk were striding around on shore using hiking poles. Are they allowed without declaration ?.If not, why not.

Shush zap🤫 That's what Frank uses.

Avril

[david63]

57 minutes ago, Adawn47 said:

Can I just clarify something?

Does all this rigmarole apply even if you occasionally need to use a walking stick?

Avril

Only if you take the walking stick on the ship with you, and that would include trying to hide it in your case. Technically it is any mobility aid - not restricted just to a walking stick.

 

I think that the bottom line is that if in doubt complete the form.

 

Someone at Carnival needs to get a grip of this before it comes back to bite them because the way things are going it will happen sooner or later.

Edited May 15 by david63

[Adawn47]

14 minutes ago, david63 said:

Only if you take the walking stick on the ship with you, and that would include trying to hide it in your case. Technically it is any mobility aid - not restricted just to a walking stick.

 

I think that the bottom line is that if in doubt complete the form.

It is taken on board, but as yet, it's never been needed. How long has this been a requirement, because I've never filled in any forms regarding this in 10 years cruising with P&O

In fact, I book on line and have never come across a form  like this at all.

Avril

Edited May 15 by Adawn47
added text

[yorkshirephil]

11 minutes ago, Adawn47 said:

It is taken on board, but as yet, it's never been needed. How long has this been a requirement, because I've never filled in any forms regarding this in 10 years cruising with P&O

In fact, I book on line and have never come across a form  like this at all.

Avril

It is in the "Before you sail" section when you log in, there is a header termed "On board needs" 

It states:

This form should be completed by all guests who:

• May require assistance with embarkation, disembarkation, or in an unlikely case of emergency evacuation
• Have any medical needs that may require special accommodation
• Will be bringing medical equipment or mobility devices on board
• Have been advised by their travel insurance or doctor to declare their needs to us

Edited May 15 by yorkshirephil

[Megabear2]

1 hour ago, Adawn47 said:

Can I just clarify something?

Does all this rigmarole apply even if you occasionally need to use a walking stick?

Avril

Yes if you take it onboard. 

[Megabear2]

1 hour ago, zap99 said:

I don't have a stake in this...but. On our last cruise a few folk were striding around on shore using hiking poles. Are they allowed without declaration ?.If not, why not.

If they go onboard they apparently mobility aids. Your guess ...

[Megabear2]

19 minutes ago, Adawn47 said:

It is taken on board, but as yet, it's never been needed. How long has this been a requirement, because I've never filled in any forms regarding this in 10 years cruising with P&O

In fact, I book on line and have never come across a form  like this at all.

Avril

Since mid 2023.  The form is in your cruise personaliser.

[yorkshirephil]

5 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

If they go onboard they apparently mobility aids. Your guess ...

As keen walkers we always take walking poles in our cases, sometimes we won't use them, but if we go "hiking" we do. We don't use them onboard but seemingly we would now need to register them so that we can take them on board so that we can take them off board😁

[david63]

Just now, yorkshirephil said:

As keen walkers we always take walking poles in our cases, sometimes we won't use them, but if we go "hiking" we do. We don't use them onboard but seemingly we would now need to register them so that we can take them on board so that we can take them off board😁

The way that the policy is being applied at the moment if you come across a jobsworth at embarkation and have not completed the form then you run the risk of being denied boarding.

 

And yes I know that it is stupid. I have always adopted the line that if somebody further up the food chain wants to play silly games then I will play silly games and more often than not I have had more experience in the sill games department!!

[Megabear2]

3 minutes ago, yorkshirephil said:

As keen walkers we always take walking poles in our cases, sometimes we won't use them, but if we go "hiking" we do. We don't use them onboard but seemingly we would now need to register them so that we can take them on board so that we can take them off board😁

Having done a bit of research the people having difficulty are those that take medical aids for use ashore, ie fold up wheelchairs, small fold up scooters, poles etc.  Seems that the "semi" able bodied are the ones falling foul most often.

 

I'll never forget my one legged man on Arvia last year who was forced through humiliating displays of going up and down stairs for the medical officer with and without his crutch. Took them 40 minutes to decide he could board after refusing to let him on. He whizzed up and down stairs while I crawled.

[Bazrat]

On 5/13/2024 at 10:54 PM, Selbourne said:

What a nightmare. You say that you completed the on-board needs questionnaire in January. Did you declare that you were intending to bring a wheelchair at that time? If you did, then you should have been told at that stage that you couldn’t be accommodated, not 4 months later. If you didn’t, and have only recently declared that you are bringing a wheelchair then as @molecrochip states, if the limited number of evacuation chairs are already taken then you cannot be accommodated. It’s not discrimination, it’s safety.

 

My wife has secondary progressive Multiple Sclerosis and is now a full time wheelchair user. We have to use an accessible cabin and we declare the wheelchair immediately when we book and an evacuation chair is allocated. On that basis, once they are all allocated you’d assume that further bookings wouldn’t be accepted from those who need to bring wheelchairs. If I’d declared it in January and it had taken until 4 weeks before the cruise to be told this I would be furious. 
 

As well as clamping down on people turning up at the terminal with an undeclared wheelchair, presumably as they have a need, it’s high time that P&O also clamped down on the abuse of the assisted embarkation and disembarkation by those who don’t genuinely need it. Folk who cope perfectly adequately walking around the ship and the ports throughout the entire cruise, but then claim that they need to be transported on or off the ship in a wheelchair when they perceive that there is some advantage to be gained by doing so. Even though we have a genuine need, we avoid assisted disembarkation now as it annoys me so much 

Totally agree with you, we have witnessed one wheelchair user pushing their chair down the beach, then needing assistance to reboard the coach to get back to the ship.

[FamilyCruiserUK]

My mum has recently filled out the form via her TA.  She does not need a wheelchair, walks with aid of a stick but takes her time. On completion of the form it was sent to P&O who rung my mother to confirm some details. From the conversation she has been noted as requiring assistance in an emergency. So will have a chair and helper allocated to her. She also has email confirmation of this. 

I have also just read about a guy in a wheelchair being denied boarding due to not completing the form. He did not know he had to complete the form or see it on his online profile. His family cruised without him.  P&O stated they didnt have enough helpers to evacuate those requiring assistance. 

It is not discrimination, however it needs to be better handled and advertised and then chased up by P&O. 

My mum was told about the form via her TA who helped her complete it but the form is over complicated. It should be more apparent when booking for those who need it. 

I really feel sorry for all those who are falling foul of these rules. 

[purplesea]

On Monday I booked a cruise with my TA and was asked about mobility. I said my OH would be taking a walking stick which was added to my booking. Yesterday, when My P&O appeared, I filled in the questionaire, have downloaded and printed it off, as proof!

On a previous occasion, before the new rules were applied, I had completed the medical assistance form for my mother and emailed it to P&O along with her allergy details. We arrived at Southampton and they had no details of her request for assistance, although arriving in our cabin there was a letter regarding her allergy. So what happened, as both were sent in the same email?

[david63]

4 minutes ago, purplesea said:

So what happened, as both were sent in the same email?

Left hand and right hand syndrome

[9265359]

9 minutes ago, FamilyCruiserUK said:

however it needs to be better handled and advertised and then chased up by P&O. 

 

When booking via the P&O website there is a pop-up page that clearly states that you need to pre-register for assistance.

 

When I book through my travel agent they read a script that includes specific questions to determine if pre-registering for assistance is required.

 

Now if some people are not reading these screens or listening to what their travel agent says then who is to blame? And what more could P&O do? Keep emailing everyone and asking "are you sure" multiple times?

 

Now there is a slight possibility that someone booked through a travel agent that didn't follow the script and ask the questions, but that is an issue with the travel agent and not P&O.

 

41 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

I'll never forget my one legged man on Arvia last year who was forced through humiliating displays of going up and down stairs for the medical officer with and without his crutch. Took them 40 minutes to decide he could board after refusing to let him on.

 

Damned if they do, and damned if they don't.

 

P&O let them on without any questions or checks and it transpires that they cannot manage the stairs when the ship is sinking and they will get the blame. P&O check that they can manage the stairs in an emergency and they are cruel and heartless.

[yorkshirephil]

43 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

Having done a bit of research the people having difficulty are those that take medical aids for use ashore, ie fold up wheelchairs, small fold up scooters, poles etc.  Seems that the "semi" able bodied are the ones falling foul most often.

 

It is probably the same people that devised the health declaration form where if you were honest and ticked the box saying you had a cough because you were a smoker or had any ailment other than covid your cruise was  automatically cancelled. That went on for months. 

[FamilyCruiserUK]

1 minute ago, 9265359 said:

When booking via the P&O website there is a pop-up page that clearly states that you need to pre-register for assistance.

 

When I book through my travel agent they read a script that includes specific questions to determine if pre-registering for assistance is required.

 

Now if some people are not reading these screens or listening to what their travel agent says then who is to blame? And what more could P&O do? Keep emailing everyone and asking "are you sure" multiple times?

Not everyone is proficient at using online tools, websites and emails. 

I know my mother has no idea what she is doing online, hence why she books through a TA. 

Are all TAs doing that though? Some are good some are bad. 

I agree people need to take responsibility for their actions, as long as they have been informed. 

[Megabear2]

1 minute ago, 9265359 said:

 

When booking via the P&O website there is a pop-up page that clearly states that you need to pre-register for assistance.

 

When I book through my travel agent they read a script that includes specific questions to determine if pre-registering for assistance is required.

 

Now if some people are not reading these screens or listening to what their travel agent says then who is to blame? And what more could P&O do? Keep emailing everyone and asking "are you sure" multiple times?

 

Now there is a slight possibility that someone booked through a travel agent that didn't follow the script and ask the questions, but that is an issue with the travel agent and not P&O.

 

 

Damned if they do, and damned if they don't.

 

P&O let them on without any questions or checks and it transpires that they cannot manage the stairs when the ship is sinking and they will get the blame. P&O check that they can manage the stairs in an emergency and they are cruel and heartless.

Not at all. However he had completed his form and they'd accepted him - he had an email stating so.  He was a very fit man who was a competitive wheelchair athlete but he did not have it with him.  The check in clerk was very rude, told him he'd need a chair for emergency assistance and no two men available. After remonstrating they called the medical officer who decided he should prove he could get up and down the stairs by actually doing it several times.  He obliged, did it extremely easily as well.  All this took place in front of other passengers and I thought it was humiliating and embarrassing for him.  After all this he was allowed to board  it was last boarding by this point and I was a 4.00pm time.  We boarded together and he told me the only reason he had kept calm was because he couldn't go home to Cornwall as his house was bring ripped to pieces to adapt it and he was taking the cruise simply because his house was uninhabitable.

 

 

[Selbourne]

45 minutes ago, Bazrat said:

Totally agree with you, we have witnessed one wheelchair user pushing their chair down the beach, then needing assistance to reboard the coach to get back to the ship.

Although, to be fair, many wheelchair users who can cope with their arms propelling the chair may struggle with their legs, especially climbing steps. That used to be the case with my wife. When she still had some use of her legs I would lift her legs, one at a time, to get on a coach. Now even that’s impossible, so we have to use wheelchair accessible transport. 

[9265359]

15 minutes ago, FamilyCruiserUK said:

Not everyone is proficient at using online tools, websites and emails. 

I know my mother has no idea what she is doing online, hence why she books through a TA. 

Are all TAs doing that though? Some are good some are bad. 

I agree people need to take responsibility for their actions, as long as they have been informed. 

 

And so the blame is with the travel agent, not P&O, and the only solution to that is either P&O stop selling through travel agents (not going to happen) or to email every single passenger to make sure they don't need assistance, which is many thousands of people being bombarded with irrelevant emails.

 

17 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

However he had completed his form and they'd accepted him - he had an email stating so.

 

As before, damned if they do and damned if they don't.

 

Do they simply accept the word of the person in front of them that they can manage the stairs in an emergency when they only have one leg, and then find out when the ship is sinking that they were not telling the truth, and afterwards everyone would say 'didn't you check they could'?

 

It is just the same as the test to see if people can actually step over the gap to get into the tenders - that was introduced because people said they could when they couldn't and either they or the the crew trying to save them drowned as a result.

[david63]

10 minutes ago, 9265359 said:

And so the blame is with the travel agent, not P&O, and the only solution to that is either P&O stop selling through travel agents (not going to happen) or to email every single passenger to make sure they don't need assistance, which is many thousands of people being bombarded with irrelevant emails.

No there is a better, and more simple solution. The completion of the form is done by all passengers at the time of, and as part of, the booking and the booking is not confirmed unless the form has been completed.

 

There is then a confirmation that the details are still correct when doing the online check-in with an option that if the details have changed and the passenger cannot be accommodated that they get a full refund of their fare.

[9265359]

1 minute ago, david63 said:

The completion of the form is done by all passengers at the time of, and as part of, the booking and the booking is not confirmed unless the form has been completed.

 

You want every passenger on board to complete an accessibility needs form, 99%+ pointlessly doing so, and with the vast majority of the remaining <1% doing so anyway, just to capture the one or two people who either didn't follow the instructions or had a poor travel agent.

 

Hmmm...

[Megabear2]

31 minutes ago, 9265359 said:

Do they simply accept the word of the person in front of them that they can manage the stairs in an emergency when they only have one leg, and then find out when the ship is sinking that they were not telling the truth, and afterwards everyone would say 'didn't you check they could'?

 

It is just the same as the test to see if people can actually step over the gap to get into the tenders - that was introduced because people said they could when they couldn't and either they or the the crew trying to save them drowned as a result.

Then don't accept the guy's booking, have a lengthy email chain with him, confirm his form was completed correctly and speak in depth to him and his travel agent, all of which he had proof of to hand. 

 

Or more importantly have the decency to discuss his ability in private, not in a crowded departure hall and turn him into a sideshow going up and down the stairs like a trained chimpanzee.

 

Tender tests are generally conducted in private, why couldn't he be treated the same.

[Ardennais]

3 hours ago, Adawn47 said:

Can I just clarify something?

Does all this rigmarole apply even if you occasionally need to use a walking stick?

Avril

I filled the questionnaire for Queen Vic in January on behalf of my mother and stated that she always uses a walking stick but would also be taking a walker onboard. I then stated that we (my OH and I) would be providing one-to-one assistance during any emergencies. That was sufficient then - I think there was a high(ish) proportion of passengers with walking sticks! 

[happy v]

28 minutes ago, 9265359 said:

 

You want every passenger on board to complete an accessibility needs form, 99%+ pointlessly doing so, and with the vast majority of the remaining <1% doing so anyway, just to capture the one or two people who either didn't follow the instructions or had a poor travel agent.

 

Hmmm...

Everyone does. On all new bookings you are asked if you have any problems which may need assistance. If the answer is no, you are done. If it is yes you will then have to answer further questions