Royal Up bids NOT accepted...just curious

[Jetdriver787]

31 minutes ago, Airbear232 said:

I agree, it makes sense in terms of Royal maximizing revenue.  However, it all seems very disingenuous.  For example, take two cabins same category that are side by side.  Hypothetically, if PAX in cabin A booked well in advance of sailing and had a cheaper rate than PAX in cabin B who booked much later.  Then, the company (algorithm) would potentially award an upgrade to PAX in cabin A even if it is substantially lower than the bid from PAX in cabin B because it would take into account being able to realize a much greater gain on selling Cabin A to someone else than it would in awarding the cabin to PAX in cabin B who bid more.  It would be interesting to know what percentage of “winners” comes from cabins that were sold at lower overall fees.  

It makes no difference. What anybody paid for their existing booking, as that is already money in the bank. The company running this (and other) programmes is called Plusgrade. They utilise chains of unsold/returned inventory to maximise ancillary revenue for their customer (the cruise line/hotel/airline.) They have no idea what you paid for your existing booking because it is irrelevant to them.

[Billy Baltic]

It would be nice if there was an element of luck in it. I like the idea of someone bidding the minimum and going from an ocean view to a full suite. Someone with the money to book the suite in the beginning, can do it any time they want. 
 

I say that as someone who will only get to stay in an owners suite or above, if a minimum bid wins. 

[Tree_skier]

4 hours ago, Airbear232 said:

Do factors like average spend onboard or casino activity come into play?

I don't think so... It is an outside company that handles this for Royal so they wouldn't have that kind of data.  The algorithm simply calculates all of the cascading effects of each move and selects the one that provides Royal with greatest revenue.  

[Airbear232]

1 hour ago, Jetdriver787 said:

It makes no difference. What anybody paid for their existing booking, as that is already money in the bank. The company running this (and other) programmes is called Plusgrade. They utilise chains of unsold/returned inventory to maximise ancillary revenue for their customer (the cruise line/hotel/airline.) They have no idea what you paid for your existing booking because it is irrelevant to them.

If the goal of the program is revenue maximization, then the initial cost of each cabin would be a variable that you would want to consider.

[Airbear232]

14 minutes ago, Tree_skier said:

I don't think so... It is an outside company that handles this for Royal so they wouldn't have that kind of data.  The algorithm simply calculates all of the cascading effects of each move and selects the one that provides Royal with greatest revenue.  

Interesting.  But, as long as the data is "anonymous", the more data points you have the better you are able to predictively maximize total revenue.

[Tree_skier]

13 minutes ago, Airbear232 said:

Interesting.  But, as long as the data is "anonymous", the more data points you have the better you are able to predictively maximize total revenue.

True but how do you keep the data anonymous while at the same time factor it into the equation that is maximizing revenue?

[Jetdriver787]

15 minutes ago, Airbear232 said:

If the goal of the program is revenue maximization, then the initial cost of each cabin would be a variable that you would want to consider.

Why? That money is already in the bank! You are now looking to maximise NEW additional ancillary revenue from unsold and returned inventory. One cabin at the top of a chain might potentially generate the “bid” revenue from 10 cabins further along that chain. 

[Jetdriver787]

1 hour ago, Billy Baltic said:

It would be nice if there was an element of luck in it. I like the idea of someone bidding the minimum and going from an ocean view to a full suite. Someone with the money to book the suite in the beginning, can do it any time they want. 
 

I say that as someone who will only get to stay in an owners suite or above, if a minimum bid wins. 

If it’s any consolation, that does happen. Admittedly, it’s rare, but last year I had an upgrade (on a different cruise line, but same revenue generator,) from the equivalent of a balcony to the equivalent of an owners suite. Not only that, but the original booking was a highly discounted points only booking! In that case, the ship had a fair bit of unsold revenue right up until the closure of the normal sales window, so the prospects were better than you might normally expect. The upgrade bid was just off the floor as well. The only other successful bid I have placed was with RCI from a JS to a GS, again with plenty of unsold inventory up to the sales closure.

 

I think these programmes are often misunderstood and confused with regular sales programmes (such as GTY bookings.) Additionally, they are not competitions in the true sense that there is necessarily a prize! Frequent use of words like “win” often erroneously suggest otherwise. Likewise, they are not “auctions” in the same sense that there is a tangible product to bid on. The methodology and language employed might suggest otherwise, but there isn’t necessarily or indeed usually any actual product, just the prospect that one (or more) might become available at some future date. 
 

 

[sadiwest]

We're 50/50...2 of 4 thus far.  Most recently on what I assumed was a sold out 5 nt to Bermuda from an inside to Promenade inside for (I think) $70 total.  That one is upcoming...

 

Previously was from a balcony to GS for I don't remember how much. I only pick the ones to bid on that I won't regret.   I don't want to be on lower decks no matter how big or fancy the cabin is.

 

 

[Airbear232]

4 hours ago, Jetdriver787 said:

Why? That money is already in the bank! You are now looking to maximise NEW additional ancillary revenue from unsold and returned inventory. One cabin at the top of a chain might potentially generate the “bid” revenue from 10 cabins further along that chain. 

If the total number of cabins sold is static, it doesn’t matter.  However, if the bidders cabins are resold, then the amount the cabins were initially sold at becomes a factor in maximizing revenue. 

[Airbear232]

4 hours ago, Tree_skier said:

True but how do you keep the data anonymous while at the same time factor it into the equation that is maximizing revenue?

By anonymous, I mean keeping out of the feed information that can identify the cabin occupant.  

[Jetdriver787]

2 hours ago, Airbear232 said:

If the total number of cabins sold is static, it doesn’t matter.  However, if the bidders cabins are resold, then the amount the cabins were initially sold at becomes a factor in maximizing revenue. 

Sorry, but I fail to see how? If 2 identical category cabins (A & B) bid on a higher category cabin (C).  A originally paid $1000 and B paid $0 (comp’) the maximisation will come from the simple higher bid. If B bids higher than A, then that is what maximises the revenue. 
 

You have to remember this isn’t the company selling its own product. It is a specialist company putting together revenue chains from unsold/returned stock to create ancillary revenue. In these days of “sold out” sailings, a lot of that stock is going to be late cancellations, which the company already has the money for, so this is just icing on the cake! Most “Royal up” bids are awarded around 2-3 days before departure, which is beyond the normal sales window in any event. Prior to that, the company would sell any available stock through its normal channels. 
 

The programme can also be used to help rebalance sales expectations where there is a clear underperformance. This would usually be in the “volume” lower half of the pyramid. The company can then rebalance its sales quota by releasing a block of specific rooms to be “Royaled up.” 

[Merion_Mom]

Stop trying to "out-logic" one another.

 

This is all idle speculation.

[ARandomTraveler]

1 hour ago, Merion_Mom said:

Stop trying to "out-logic" one another.

 

This is all idle speculation.

My brain hurts 

[Cruise a holic]

bottom line, if you book a newer ship, during prime sailing times, they are sailing full.  If you book an old rust bucket-non prime times, your chance of an upgrade better.  We always pick a cabin or suite based on what we truly enjoy.  Why stress?

[toxicfairy]

Yeah I swore I wouldn't but I did. Haha. I got the offer email today. I love the cabin we chose so no biggie if I don't get it. So just for sh*ts and giggles and just because last time I sailed royal up wasn't a thing yet, I put in minimum plus $5. We're in a junior suite on the hump. I went for a grand suite because my hubby likes them. Honestly I'm fine either way. So will be interesting to see what happens. And either way I can say oh I did that royal up thing 😏 

[wdwkings]

20 hours ago, Jetdriver787 said:

Why? That money is already in the bank! You are now looking to maximise NEW additional ancillary revenue from unsold and returned inventory. One cabin at the top of a chain might potentially generate the “bid” revenue from 10 cabins further along that chain. 

This whole thread is based on speculation on what is factored into the equation and how the process works.  
 

That said it is not hard for data scientists to get data and work it into the equation.  The initial room payment would be easy to add.  Your initial room rate (full or discounted) plus your bid would be your overall bid amount.  So if two like category rooms have the same Royal Up bid the tie breaker, could go to the higher initial charge.  Likely the most important other factors are the bids below your cabin category so that other “winning” bids could be added revenue.  
 

There are huge amounts of data being shared already (thank Hank Asher for that) so even C&A and Casino levels could be included.  If RCI allows the access to the data, it could easily be added into the algorithm, but likely a much lesser factor.  It is likely way more complex on how the algorithm works, so pure speculation.  Safe to say that the actual bid amount is only a small part of what matters.

[Starry Eyes]

13 hours ago, Jetdriver787 said:

Sorry, but I fail to see how? If 2 identical category cabins (A & B) bid on a higher category cabin (C).  A originally paid $1000 and B paid $0 (comp’) the maximisation will come from the simple higher bid. If B bids higher than A, then that is what maximises the revenue. 
 

You have to remember this isn’t the company selling its own product. It is a specialist company putting together revenue chains from unsold/returned stock to create ancillary revenue. In these days of “sold out” sailings, a lot of that stock is going to be late cancellations, which the company already has the money for, so this is just icing on the cake! Most “Royal up” bids are awarded around 2-3 days before departure, which is beyond the normal sales window in any event. Prior to that, the company would sell any available stock through its normal channels. 
 

The programme can also be used to help rebalance sales expectations where there is a clear underperformance. This would usually be in the “volume” lower half of the pyramid. The company can then rebalance its sales quota by releasing a block of specific rooms to be “Royaled up.” 

Let’s try a different situation.  You want to buy a used car.  Two essentially identical ones are available.  As they equally nice, they are worth the same amount, right?  While chatting you learn one seller received that car A as a graduation gift while the other seller purchased his car B himself upon graduation.   Are they still worth the same amount, or do you think previous cost impacts the next transaction?

[sadiwest]

9 hours ago, ARandomTraveler said:

My brain hurts 

I don't understand why people have to stop discussing it because a few folks don't think there's logic in it.

 

Some people like to discuss and challenge their understanding of the world and how things work. 

 

Bothers anyone?...don't read it. 

Much like you can do with my reply. 😀

[teddie]

13 hours ago, Merion_Mom said:

Stop trying to "out-logic" one another.

 

This is all idle speculation.

Haha.  As if this kind of thing never happens here.  Otherwise, we would all be deprived of general fun, eye-rolling, and exposure to further "logical" conclusions based on speculation. 🙂

Teddie

[The Fun Researcher]

We bid a little over $500 per person for our Liberty cruise to Bermuda last week.  This was from a balcony to Owners suites, Grand Suites, and Villa suites. We didn't win.  I think the minimum bids were anywhere from $230-$450 per guest.

[Jetdriver787]

5 hours ago, Starry Eyes said:

Let’s try a different situation.  You want to buy a used car.  Two essentially identical ones are available.  As they equally nice, they are worth the same amount, right?  While chatting you learn one seller received that car A as a graduation gift while the other seller purchased his car B himself upon graduation.   Are they still worth the same amount, or do you think previous cost impacts the next transaction?

🤷‍♂️ I’m not sure it makes the blindest bit of difference but in any event there really isn’t any correlation. Plusgrade runs revenue enhancement programmes for a whole flotilla of hospitality and transport companies. The idea that they know or even care what somebody spends in the casino or how many cartons of Pringles they buy, is risible. Their mandate is to maximise revenue by creating chains of unsold and returned inventory. This enables them to write a cheque (check) to their client subscribers after they deduct their commission. That’s the basic business model.

[sie625]

On 6/11/2024 at 9:02 AM, Engineroom Snipe said:

 

6. NO TAKE-BACKS: Once the bid has been assigned,  you are where they put you.

This is the main reason I don't like it. If this was run by RCL and they called to ask, or even if you had a 24 hour window to say I don't want this upgrade because of the location, then sure.

 

But the variability of location for an upgrade, and not being able to decline just isn't worth it to me. 

[xtremegk]

On 6/12/2024 at 3:59 PM, Airbear232 said:

If the total number of cabins sold is static, it doesn’t matter.  However, if the bidders cabins are resold, then the amount the cabins were initially sold at becomes a factor in maximizing revenue. 

 

I think you're confusing WHO is maximizing revenue. PlusGrade doesn't care about Royal reselling a Royal Up'd cabin to a new booking. As it's a commission-based business, they care about maximizing revenue for themselves.

 

All that matters to them is what upgrade strings can they put together with the cabin allotment given to them by Royal to earn the most revenue off Royal Up strings. A & B being identical cabins, theoretically a higher bid will win IF it comes down to those two to move...but there are a long line of factors that they develop to determine the maximum commission they can earn.

[marci22]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/plusgrade/2023/12/01/5-ways-data-is-delivering-tailored-travel-experiences-for-competitive-advantage/

 

" Maximizing the value of ancillaries requires making the right offer, to the right person, at the right time. And that requires lots of data...

 

 

As the largest ancillary revenue travel platform, Plusgrade has a wealth of permissioned information for analysis.

Plusgrade feeds this data into proprietary models that employ machine learning and deep learning to predict which users are most likely to respond to a given offer."

 

Lots of interesting points made in this article.