New Oceania Air Program

[FlyerTalker]

19 minutes ago, osandomir said:

Yes, you can definitely transfer your points and miles at a rate 1:1 between many credit cards, hotels and airlines. But it’s nowhere in US the cost of one point is $1 so you can use one point against one dollar of the cost of your air ticket or hotel room. And this is how per Tranquility Base it works with Air New Zealand loyalty program.

 

The valuation of NZ points is the outlier.  And any comparison between the value of NZ points and other airlines is pointless, IMO.

 

 

[osandomir]

7 minutes ago, FlyerTalker said:

 

The valuation of NZ points is the outlier.  And any comparison between the value of NZ points and other airlines is pointless, IMO.

 

 

…and you just did that comparison yourself in your post #73. But by the way your calculations are quite correct.

Edited June 16 by osandomir

[FlyerTalker]

8 hours ago, osandomir said:

…and you just did that comparison yourself in your post #73.

 

I was directing to the folks who want THEIR miles to be worth something on the order of a buck a point.

[Redtravel]

That may explain the brochure that I got yesterday.  Cruises are listed with one price. Previously prices were listed with and without air.  Depending on location, the with air price may or may not be attractive.  Having previously worked in marketing research, not showing extra fees can make the price look more attractive.  Low price can hook some people.  Mass market cruises have advertised low prices that don’t include taxes, port charges, air, etc.   once you add those fees, your cost has increased.  
I am waiting for Oceania to go back to basics.  Not only advertise fares without air, advertise basic fares with Simply More as an add on.  Do anything that can produces increased bookings.  

[Vineyard View]

13 hours ago, FlyerTalker said:

 

Here's the current "secret":  Many of the best deals for FF redemptions now are on AirFrance/KLM.  They have actively reduced award costs to boost engagement with their programs and the airlines using Flying Blue as the FF.  Base level for TATL business class starts at 50k one-way, with increased inventory.

 

 

We have almost always used Flying Blue. We like AF & KLM very much. 
Last year it took almost 450k miles for BC

i just looked for same timeframe next May. Over 1 million points! I tried SFO-CDG on multiple dates in May. I may give them a call and see what purchasing an economy ticket and using miles to upgrade might be. 

I then went onto my Alaska Air miles and tried the same. 700k miles. 
Holy moly. In 2022 it was 195k miles to travel in May on BC using FB. 
What a difference. Any tips are much appreciated. 

[FlyerTalker]

51 minutes ago, Vineyard View said:

i just looked for same timeframe next May. Over 1 million points! I tried SFO-CDG on multiple dates in May.
What a difference. Any tips are much appreciated. 

 

Don't just look from SFO.  Check their other gateways.  LAX, SEA, PHX, YVR, and others.  You can sometimes find rock-bottom award seats, then just take a positioning flight to get there.  I have an KL TATL biz award for 50k....from MSP.  Hey, it was a $150 ticket to get to MSP, which made it overall a great bargain.

 

Most folks look at just their city, and/or on just the day they want.  Be flexible.  Move a day or two and save thousands of miles.  Fly from another gateway and save thousands.  The gateway hack is one that has served me well over the years, especially for TPAC.  LAX is almost always a better deal than SFO, except perhaps to Tokyo.

 

 

[Thought2go]

3 hours ago, Redtravel said:

Do anything that can produces increased bookings.  

From reading economic news, it appears that Cruise lines have recouped and added profits post Covid shutdowns and that bookings are not the issue as the ships are full. Do you feel this doesn’t apply to Oceania?

From a personal standpoint they need to stop mucking around with menu offerings as that is their big advertised draw- especially if the Cruise lines are raking in massive profits.

[Psoque]

On 6/14/2024 at 9:54 AM, CurlerRob said:

 

OP suggests they will still sell airfare, but separately.

 

As long as O plans to offer pax a price for future air travel, especially outside the airlines' release dates, whether it's included or not in the fare has no effect on the financial assumptions regarding profit.🍺🥌

Actually I (mis-)interpreted your original comment, which is "... it suggests that Oceania will be making "educated guesses" about pricing." as you saying that Oceania will now have to do this as a result of the change.  I made my comment to say that Oceania (and for that matter, all other cruise lines) have been doing that as long as they have been selling airfare.  And in regard to "cruise only" airfare, Oceania would not need to second guess the possible fluctuations in airfare.

[br111]

Officially unveiled via an email this morning:

 

As a valued member of our Oceania Club family, you and your travel experiences are at the center of every enhancement and change we consider at Oceania Cruises. That is why I’d like to share an advance notice of an important update to our simply MORE™ value promise, which was introduced nearly one year ago.   A long-time inclusion with Oceania Cruises has been Free Airfare. As a result, our advertised fares have always included air travel and airport transfers. With the introduction of simply MORE™, we featured two fare options – simply MORE™ with air and simply MORE™ without air. Beginning July 1, 2024, our advertised fares will no longer automatically include airfare and the associated transfers. Fares shown will be for simply MORE™ without air (cruise-only). Below are three important notes we want to share with you about this change:   1. For guests already booked with Free Airfare as part of their promotion, there will be no change to their existing booking.   2. For guests who value having their air travel and airport transfers arranged by Oceania Cruises, this will continue to be an option and our Air Services team will be delighted to assist you. Airfare, and included transfers, can be quoted and added to the booking up to four days prior to sailing. Custom air travel can be quoted and added to a booking starting at 270 days prior to sailing.   3. Oceania Cruises’ Air Service Standards and FAQs will be published on OceaniaCruises.com on July 1, 2024, providing a high level of detail on what our air program includes and what options are available. As an Oceania Club member, your feedback and experiences are incredibly valuable to us, and this change in how we advertise and offer optional air services was prompted by exactly that – guest feedback as well as evolving travel trends. While our standard air program will remain, many of our guests have expressed a desire to have more control over their choice of airline, routing, class of service and other aspects of their air travel. We recognize that travel preferences vary by guest and may be best met through our standard air program, our custom air desk or by arranging air travel independently of Oceania Cruises. This shift in how we advertise and offer optional air services is meant to better serve the need for this flexibility and choice.   You can be assured that the core elements of simply MORE™ remain – shore excursion credits, Wi-Fi for up to two devices per stateroom, complimentary champagne, wine and more at lunch and dinner, and – of course – complimentary dining in our gourmet specialty restaurants. However you choose to arrive for your next voyage on Oceania Cruises, we truly look forward to welcoming you back on board soon.

[Hanoj]

On 6/14/2024 at 10:04 AM, jonthomas said:

It's as clear as mud.

Let's dub the new air program "Simply Mud."🙂

[Hlitner]

O's silly pricing, over many years, with air, without air, with SM, without SM, with custom air, etc. is one reason why we never cruised on "O" until this spring.  We cruise on many different lines (17 to date) and are used to dealing with the various air programs.  O's was the worst...especially if one wanted international business class.

 

So now, we look at the new posted policy and shake our head.  The post says the custom air option opens 270 days prior to prior to sailing.  That flies (pun intended) in face of the normal airline reservation system which opens 330 days in advance of a flight.  By having custom air use 270, anyone using custom air would be disadvantaged since reservations for specific flights would have been opened up to 2 months prior to when O would even look at the flight(s).  When booking international air (especially first, business and premium economy) timing can be very important.  I will tell you that the other cruise line companies (CCL and RCI) generally open-up their cruise/air reservations 330 days (this is generally based on the disembarkation date).  I should also mention that no other cruise line, with whom we deal, charges extra fees for their air programs (including custom air).

 

I should mention that our recent Vista cruise ended in Trieste.  We ultimately flew home from Milan, after a couple of weeks in Europe.  With CCL brands this would not have been a problem and we could have used their system with no extra fees.  In the case of O, it was less expensive to simply book our own Biz Class back to the USA.   I might add that most of the other lines have decent online booking engines (for their air) which allow folks to see all the applicable flights, change airports, etc.

 

Hank

[osandomir]

24 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

 

So now, we look at the new posted policy and shake our head.  The post says the custom air option opens 270 days prior to prior to sailing.  That flies (pun intended) in face of the normal airline reservation system which opens 330 days in advance of a flight.  By having custom air use 270, anyone using custom air would be disadvantaged since reservations for specific flights would have been opened up to 2 months prior to when O would even look at the flight(s).  When booking international air (especially first, business and premium economy) timing can be very important.  I will tell you that the other cruise line companies (CCL and RCI) generally open-up their cruise/air reservations 330 days (this is generally based on the disembarkation date).  I should also mention that no other cruise line, with whom we deal, charges extra fees for their air programs (including custom air).

 

Hank

I agree with you that it looks very confusing at this point. I just don’t think one can find the best international air prices when airlines open their schedules if looking for the revenue air tickets, especially in BizClass. In our experience the best fares can be found somewhere between 8 to 6 months prior to flying. That’s more aligned with the Oceania custom air reservation window. That said, we’re yet to see how their new air program will play out.

[Hlitner]

30 minutes ago, osandomir said:

I agree with you that it looks very confusing at this point. I just don’t think one can find the best international air prices when airlines open their schedules if looking for the revenue air tickets, especially in BizClass. In our experience the best fares can be found somewhere between 8 to 6 months prior to flying. That’s more aligned with the Oceania custom air reservation window. That said, we’re yet to see how their new air program will play out.

Getting a bit off topic, but finding the best international fares has become anything but routine.  I assume that "yield management" programs have become more complex (we now are in the era of AI) but the old rules do not seem to work.  We have an August booking, round trip, to Dubrovnik.  Booked a "back up" flight about 8 months ago using the Seabourn booking engine with their Flexair option.  This locked us in on our chosen flights and price, but we did not need to pay until about 60 days prior to the flights, and could cancel (no penalty) at any time.  Our air deal was not good (in terms of price) but we did choose our desired flights.  

 

We figured that we would eventually (using your 6–8-month rule) find a much better deal (either through Seabourn or on our own).  Not only did this not happen, but the prices on our flights continued to climb...right up to last week.  We are talking Business Class from the east coast (we looked at 5 airports) to Europe where there are plenty of flights and competition.  It did not matter.  Bottom line was that the booking we made (using the Seabourn air web site) 330 days in advance were the best prices!  Go figure.  

 

Last year we had a similar situation with flights to Japan.  Our early booking (about 330 days prior to the flights) were actually a very good deal (using British Air and JAL).  Later prices (on the lowest cost options) were nearly 50% higher.

 

Everything I have learned, through 50+ years of extensive travel, no longer seem to matter.  I have no problem finding the good cruise line fares, but when it comes to airlines it seems like deals are unpredictable...especially for Biz and FC.  Even using miles can be a real nightmare.  Just saw a post about some flights to Europe costing 100,000 miles!   On the other hand, we did see (today) there are some good off-season deals on Biz Class to Paris.  One never knows what they will find.

 

Hank

[EJL2023]

Last three biz class flights we have booked all had best pricing just shortly after made available. 

[osandomir]

55 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

Getting a bit off topic, but finding the best international fares has become anything but routine.  I assume that "yield management" programs have become more complex (we now are in the era of AI) but the old rules do not seem to work.  We have an August booking, round trip, to Dubrovnik.  Booked a "back up" flight about 8 months ago using the Seabourn booking engine with their Flexair option.  This locked us in on our chosen flights and price, but we did not need to pay until about 60 days prior to the flights, and could cancel (no penalty) at any time.  Our air deal was not good (in terms of price) but we did choose our desired flights.  

 

We figured that we would eventually (using your 6–8-month rule) find a much better deal (either through Seabourn or on our own).  Not only did this not happen, but the prices on our flights continued to climb...right up to last week.  We are talking Business Class from the east coast (we looked at 5 airports) to Europe where there are plenty of flights and competition.  It did not matter.  Bottom line was that the booking we made (using the Seabourn air web site) 330 days in advance were the best prices!  Go figure.  

 

Last year we had a similar situation with flights to Japan.  Our early booking (about 330 days prior to the flights) were actually a very good deal (using British Air and JAL).  Later prices (on the lowest cost options) were nearly 50% higher.

 

Everything I have learned, through 50+ years of extensive travel, no longer seem to matter.  I have no problem finding the good cruise line fares, but when it comes to airlines it seems like deals are unpredictable...especially for Biz and FC.  Even using miles can be a real nightmare.  Just saw a post about some flights to Europe costing 100,000 miles!   On the other hand, we did see (today) there are some good off-season deals on Biz Class to Paris.  One never knows what they will find.

 

Hank

That’s true, the airfare is much less predictable now than it used to be. Both for revenue and award tickets reservations. But anyway I don’t think that Oceania base their airfare on the prices available for the general public. Rather they base it in relation to the contracts with several particular airlines they use in their air program.

[WESTEAST]

@br111 Thank you for posting and look forward to O's published Air Service Standards and FAQs on July 1st to Q's such as, will there be a fee for requesting an airfare quote, etc.

 

"Beginning July 1, 2024, our advertised fares will no longer automatically include airfare and the associated transfers. Fares shown will be for simply MORE™ without air (cruise-only)."

Oceania is scheduled to increase cruise fares July 1st which is the same timing for the new and only SM fare without air.  O will not only increase their new SM fares but no doubt increase the new air fares should you want to continue to arrange air with O and obtain a quote.  One used to be able to ascertain air credit (cost to fly with O Air) PROMOTIONAL FARE W/AIRFARE to PROMOTIONAL FARE W/O AIRFARE on their website.

 

"Airfare, and included transfers, can be quoted and added to the booking up to four days prior to sailing. Custom air travel can be quoted and added to a booking starting at 270 days prior to sailing."

Interpret this to mean that you can require an air quote as soon as you book with deposit irregardless if airlines have released their schedules - note it is not routing other than from gateway city.  O's contracts with preferred airlines must be finalized. The booking up to four days prior to sailing is interesting as one would assume so close to sail date would be more costly but then, O's contracted rates should be the same regardless of date or perhaps on a sliding date scale - no doubt the bean counters have it all figured out to O's advantage. Custom air is same as existing policy of 270 days (with fee of $199 USD/$299 CAD service fee is non-refundable plus any air differential).

[ORV]

Maybe we should hold the assumptions until the details are released. 

[FetaCheese]

I've never received O promotional, nor O club announcement emails, although I have submitted my email address, via O website, several times over the last many years.

 

I always receive O confirmation emails acknowledging receipt of requests.

 

@br111Thanks for posting.

 

 

[Hlitner]

41 minutes ago, ORV said:

Maybe we should hold the assumptions until the details are released. 

My assumption is that the any "O" air program sucks as it has for about twenty years.  O is not alone as many cruise lines have lousy or no air program.  In fairness to O, they are in the cruise business and not the air business.  And based on our recent Vista cruise, they do a pretty good job with the cruise business :).

 

Hank

[osandomir]

26 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

My assumption is that the any "O" air program sucks as it has for about twenty years.  O is not alone as many cruise lines have lousy or no air program.  In fairness to O, they are in the cruise business and not the air business.  And based on our recent Vista cruise, they do a pretty good job with the cruise business :).

 

Hank

No assumptions here. But we need to keep in mind that just because their air program didn’t work for you or myself it was acceptable for many other people who for different reasons didn’t want to make their own flights arrangements. That’s why many will be very interested in the new program and in the improvements it may bring.

[clo]

3 hours ago, Hlitner said:

Just saw a post about some flights to Europe costing 100,000 miles! 

Did you mean a MILLION? $1,000,000?

[Hlitner]

4 minutes ago, osandomir said:

No assumptions here. But we need to keep in mind that just because their air program didn’t work for you or myself it was acceptable for many other people who for different reasons didn’t want to make their own flights arrangements. That’s why many will be very interested in the new program and in the improvements it may bring.

I would never criticize folks that are happy to donate unnecessary money to airlines, cruise lines, or hotels (part of cruise line packages).  But that is not our style, and we try to point out the options for folks who care.   I will add that one of the most loyal O fans who posts on these boards advised me (and others) not to use O's air program for Biz Class.   As to the new program bringing improvements, it is hard to imagine any revised program that would not have some improvements :). 

 

Speaking of cruise line air deals, we have seen a negative trend since the COVID restart.  On some lines that used to offer amazing international air deals (international business would often be 1/2 to 2/3 of the lowest public fare) the good fares have all but disappeared.  Where some lines would allow cruise lines to access the lowest business class fares (a "P" fare on some airlines) that has all but disappeared.  I have no clue as to whether this is temporary, but we do find it annoying and expensive. 

 

Hank

[jagoffee]

IMO, the new program is significantly better than the current program.  I would never book a flight under the old program, but I might book a flight under the new program.
 

[Vineyard View]

1 hour ago, clo said:

Did you mean a MILLION? $1,000,000?

Yes. I just looked yesterday for flights next May. Over 1mm miles. 
I was shocked. Last year we were incredulous at the over 400k it took to fly RT VCE. The year prior it was 195k. Staggering increases during the same travel months year over year to similar areas. 
‘Flyer talk recommended we look outside of our preferred airport….which I have done in the past, but absolutely will start doing next week when the window opens up to book. We may end up throwing a dart on the board and doing a land trip based on this nonsense. 

Edited June 18 by Vineyard View

[osandomir]

1 hour ago, Vineyard View said:

Yes. I just looked yesterday for flights next May. Over 1mm miles. 
I was shocked. Last year we were incredulous at the over 400k it took to fly RT VCE. The year prior it was 195k. Staggering increases during the same travel months year over year to similar areas. 
‘Flyer talk recommended we look outside of our preferred airport….which I have done in the past, but absolutely will start doing next week when the window opens up to book. We may end up throwing a dart on the board and doing a land trip based on this nonsense. 

@Vineyard View I have also seen these ridiculous prices a lot lately. But in my experience if I'm persistent and have some patience and luck it’s still possible to find BIZ saver awards using major airlines currencies. And if one is willing to pay high taxes some airlines release more reasonable award spaces to Europe which is still much better deal than revenue tickets. I just noticed that airlines not necessarily open these awards when the schedule is opened but more likely within several coming weeks or even months.