Maleth Aero - The One Show

[jeanlyon]

1 minute ago, molecrochip said:

I personally am sorry that so many are affected.

 

P&O are in the same boat as passengers - they want money back for what wasn’t delivered in the same way passengers want their delay compensation.

 

If the numbers of people wanting to take their first cruise with P&O is true, then this won’t dent their profile. Compared to the ferry fussco, it won’t be a scrape. Any passenger list will be replaced with a new one.

 

Its harsh but it’s the business reality.

 

That said, P&O should have played the heart and minds game better.

Agree.  Still don't think P&O are at fault here.  The contract with Maleth wasn't fulfilled correctly.

[Megabear2]

2 hours ago, jeanlyon said:

So they just cancel all their cruises because they have no aircraft seats?  I don't think so do you?

Never said they should.  I said that as this situation has been ongoing for many months P&O should have had the courtesy to reach out to the affected passengers and explain the situation. As it is there has been a wall of silence, a great deal of upset and anguish for those involved with a stance of not our problem get on with it.  There is absolutely nothing worse than an individual having to keep chasing and being ignored without any explanation for months on end.

 

This information only become public due to individuals getting frustrated and wanting some answers.  No matter who is right or wrong, what should gave occurred or didn't these folk gave been treated very badly and at the very least should have had a proper explanation of the situation.  Reading and listening to their stories they've had absolutely nothing from anyone regardless of who is responsible.  

 

Truthfully I think the whole thing is a mess, of course the holidays couldn't have been cancelled en bloc but those that suffered the misfortune at the hands of Maleth's bungled efforts should have been kept informed of the situation and not just cut loose.

Edited June 14 by Megabear2

[Megabear2]

8 hours ago, Presto2 said:

Reading all of the above it seemed like Catch 22 for PO and hindsight is always a wonderful thing when it comes to which decisions to make. 

I remember you worrying your flight might have become a Maleth one though ...

Edited June 14 by Megabear2

[Presto2]

22 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

I remember you worrying your flight might have become a Maleth one though ...

And I still stick by my comment. As a previous senior manager / leader I know that sometimes decisions are made that those at the top are not allowed to explain or share reasons with stake holders with due to folk wanting compensation or what social media says. Not easy for those on the receiving end but this is the world we live in and people and society have made happen ...

Yes I was worried at the time as is natural but seeing it through Spock's eyes of logic without the benefit of hindsight what you have done ?

Ps I am a Tekkie so apologise for the reference to Spock

 

[doog442]

1 hour ago, Megabear2 said:

This information only become public due to individuals getting frustrated and wanting some answers. 

As you know there was a thread on TA where some individuals 'wanting answers' received dogs abuse.

 

Apparently the situation was ' normal and to be expected with long haul' especially when you're flying to the Caribbean for 'peanuts'.

 

It's a poor show from Maleth and more so P&O who handled things dreadfully. Hopefully there will be some closure soon for those who suffered.

[CountryStyleMe]

after speaking to a lawyer this is what they had to say about the P&O Cruises & Maleth Aero situation. 

 

1: Maleth Areo flight delays is not the fault of P&O Cruises as P&O Cruises airline carriers just book the flights on behalf of the P&O Cruises company, flights delays is the responsibility of the Airlines to be on time, Airports and ATC Towers for keeping flight delays down to a low minimum and who give Airlines their slots for take off's and landings.

(however there is a loop hole in uk law regarding flight delays in that if delays are caused by "mother nature weather" which is out of the Airlines, Airports and ATC towers control or out of their hands as it were then the Airlines or Airline Carriers or Airline Companies by UK Law do not need to give a full refund as its not the Airlines/Airports or ATC Towers fault).

but if the flight delay is caused by a system failure or issue with the aircrafts or strikes with Airport Staff or ATC Tower or Ground Crew or due to an issue inside the Airport Terminals(evacuations) then Airlines have to give a full refund as its their fault. 

 

2: if the original contract between P&O Cruises and Maleth Aero did not include outgoing flight or returning flight entertainment, food and drink (then P&O do not owe money to Maleth for that period).

however If Melath Aero produce written documentation that the original contract between them and P&O Cruises was updated to say P&O would pay them money to include food, drink and outgoing flight or returning flight service of flight entertainment, food and drink then P&O will have to pay Maleth Aero from the period that the original contract was updated. 

 

 

[seahorse001]

On 6/13/2024 at 8:25 AM, Megabear2 said:

Following on from the fiasco, this makes interesting reading:

 

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/2cQxlcT6ZKFW5TPvCDjfcLt/maleth-aero-p-o-carnival-ror-june-2024

 

Very interesting 🤔. My thoughts 

2 is this contact issue regarding food/drinks on the plane ? I asked for a drink whilst sat on runaway for 7 hours. Maleth were extremely reluctant to serve drinks but eventually did. Food was not served until after take off so approximately 10 hours after getting on the plane. A tub of mini chocolates were handed around!

2 a contract issue with P & O is totally separate to paying delay claims ? 

3 I also think Maleth do not have the money to pay claims 

4 I still live in hope they will pay out 😅

[Megabear2]

10 hours ago, Presto2 said:

And I still stick by my comment. As a previous senior manager / leader I know that sometimes decisions are made that those at the top are not allowed to explain or share reasons with stake holders with due to folk wanting compensation or what social media says. Not easy for those on the receiving end but this is the world we live in and people and society have made happen ...

Yes I was worried at the time as is natural but seeing it through Spock's eyes of logic without the benefit of hindsight what you have done ?

Ps I am a Tekkie so apologise for the reference to Spock

 

I assume you are asking what i would have done? So, myself?  Well I was never in doubt about the decision and stated so at the time that P&O had made entirely the right call in entering into the contract with whoever they could to ensure the holidays went ahead. I also did not think people being upset about lack of entertainment systems was a reasonable attitude. Regarding the lack of premium economy seating I did feel that those passengers should have been offered the opportunity to cancel without penalty but at least the costs were refunded with some small additional compensation.  So that's where I've always stood, never made any bones about it, I would not have threatened to cancel my holiday or shouted as others did. It is what it is would have been my attitude. 

 

However, I do take issue with P&O about the aftercare situation for those passengers who suffered these horrendous delays and were treated pretty abysmally by all accounts, including somewhat luckily (but maybe not for him!) a very well known blogger. The actual handling of events on the ground appears to have been appalling, in some cases quite traumatic - being left in an empty airport having no access to food or water being the case in point.  In no way could that be described as acceptable.

 

Upon return from holiday when those affected started to apply for their legally due compensation from Maleth it became obvious something was going on.  Those people had nowhere to turn for help, information and guidance except P&O who in turn instructed their staff to adopt the nothing to do with us attitude.  The further into the season we went the more we saw people were joining online groups of disgruntled passengers getting no response from Maleth.  It became clear that P&O were hardening down on their nothing to do with us stance.  They had a perfect right to do so but realistically as the months rolled by with no Maleth responses wouldn't it have made sense to not ignore the people involved and perhaps have reached out to them to explain the situation as they have just been forced to do by Watchdog?

 

There is absolutely nothing worse for an individual than knowing you have suffered an injustice, doing everything necessary to get your redress and then hitting a brick wall. It makes people angry, frustrated, very upset.  Although not responsible would it have hurt P&O to have one or two staff trained to handle the calls, emails, letters or other communications of these thousand or so people?

 

Incidentally I watched the programme, it did not direct blame anywhere else than at Maleth, there was no attempt to blame P&O.  The statements I quoted have been published alongside the broadcast.  Surely for all involved if P&O had assisted their affected customers in the first place rather than just thrusting forms at them and washing their hands it would have been better for all?

 

 

[terrierjohn]

On 6/14/2024 at 4:43 PM, Snow Hill said:

As US based AELF Flight Services own a majority stake in Maleth Aero, what, if any, responsibility do they have to ensure passengers with legitimate claims are fully compensated under the law? 

I don't think the many shareholders on this forum would be happy to think they might be asked to pay compensation to claimants against the companies in which they own shares.

[terrierjohn]

On 6/14/2024 at 8:10 PM, Megabear2 said:

Never said they should.  I said that as this situation has been ongoing for many months P&O should have had the courtesy to reach out to the affected passengers and explain the situation. As it is there has been a wall of silence, a great deal of upset and anguish for those involved with a stance of not our problem get on with it.  There is absolutely nothing worse than an individual having to keep chasing and being ignored without any explanation for months on end.

 

This information only become public due to individuals getting frustrated and wanting some answers.  No matter who is right or wrong, what should gave occurred or didn't these folk gave been treated very badly and at the very least should have had a proper explanation of the situation.  Reading and listening to their stories they've had absolutely nothing from anyone regardless of who is responsible.  

 

Truthfully I think the whole thing is a mess, of course the holidays couldn't have been cancelled en bloc but those that suffered the misfortune at the hands of Maleth's bungled efforts should have been kept informed of the situation and not just cut loose.

For those of us who regularly travel with P&O this poor PR performance from them should come as no surprise, and no matter how much we discuss these failings, it seems very unlikely that this will improve anytime soon.

[Megabear2]

1 hour ago, terrierjohn said:

For those of us who regularly travel with P&O this poor PR performance from them should come as no surprise, and no matter how much we discuss these failings, it seems very unlikely that this will improve anytime soon.

You are no doubt right.  I posted the information for interest not discussion but as I was asked what I would have done/expected and replied accordingly.  Really nothing surprises me about P&O or indeed any cruise line.

Edited June 16 by Megabear2

[Megabear2]

3 hours ago, terrierjohn said:

I don't think the many shareholders on this forum would be happy to think they might be asked to pay compensation to claimants against the companies in which they own shares.

Three weeks ago Travel Blog Jamie had a very interesting broadcast on the Maleth situation in which he stated the CAA had told him they believed P&O do have an obligation.  It appears from his broadcast that legal action on behalf of all the claimants is very much on the cards.

 

Watch from approximately 12 minutes to the end of the broadcast.  I've no idea if any of this is correct, have no axe to grind before anyone leaps at me and have nothing other than an interest in the issue as someone who is interested in consumer affairs.

 

 

I

[molecrochip]

This goes against letters sent to individuals from the CAA which state P&O aren’t responsible.

 

P&O has an obligation for safety purposes to contract for food and water given the flight length.

Edited June 16 by molecrochip

[terrierjohn]

Until there is some international legislation putting the responsibility for the removal of inaccurate information onto the social media companies, then posters will remain uncaring about the accuracy of their material.

[Snow Hill]

1 hour ago, Megabear2 said:

Three weeks ago Travel Blog Jamie had a very interesting broadcast on the Maleth situation in which he stated the CAA had told him they believed P&O do have an obligation.  It appears from his broadcast that legal action on behalf of all the claimants is very much on the cards.

 

Watch from approximately 12 minutes to the end of the broadcast.  I've no idea if any of this is correct, have no axe to grind before anyone leaps at me and have nothing other than an interest in the issue as someone who is interested in consumer affairs.

 

 

I

No doubt some lawyers have been looking at this and potentially believe P&O have a responsibility under the Package Travel and Linked Travel Regulations and are seeking to test this in court to get a legal judgment on the matter.

[tring]

56 minutes ago, Snow Hill said:

No doubt some lawyers have been looking at this and potentially believe P&O have a responsibility under the Package Travel and Linked Travel Regulations and are seeking to test this in court to get a legal judgment on the matter.

 

I have access to a view from someone who has had a professional background in consumer legal issues and his view agrees with this. 

 

He does not really consider delay as a potential for P&O to have responsibility for though, but that other things could be considered as a potential for P&O having some responsibility.

 

Testing it in court, could be interesting though, who knows how that would go.

 

 

Edited June 16 by tring

[tring]

We have listened to the video.  The CAA have no powers to force an airline to act.  The consumer would need to sue the airline, probably in the airline's own country, but have the airline got the cash to pay up?  Perhaps just a waste of time/cash.

 

The EU regulation on delay, (now written into UK law), does state the obligation is on the airline.

 

P&O are not in partnership with Maleth, but when contracting the airline, what checks had they made that the airline was able to fulfil it's obligations?  A court case may possibly proceed on that grounds.

 

Edited June 16 by tring

[Megabear2]

3 minutes ago, tring said:

We have listened to the video.  The CAA have no powers to force an airline to act.  The consumer would need to sue the airline, probably in the airline's own country, but have the airline got the cash to pay up?  Perhaps just a waste of time/cash.

 

The EU regulation on delay, (now written into UK law),  does state the obligation is on the airline.

 

P&O are not in partnership with Maleth, but when contracting the airline, what checks had they made that the airline was able to fulfil it's obligations?  A court case may proceed on that grounds.

 

I am not a follower of this blogger but I'm aware others on this forum are which is how I have come to be following this issue since his problems in December and his reports on it.  Apparently he is going to make a full blog on the issue which will no doubt be fairly soon unless of course he is/has been stopped by some legal entity and assumedly this will provide more detail.

 

Since this was first broadcast four weeks ago tomorrow and now following the Watchdog/One Show broadcast the issue is gaining momentum in other places and your last paragraph seems to be in line with the current discussions.  There has also been suggestions of class actions and people have apparently been writing to the Maltese aircraft registry regarding Maleth.  It would appear this issue has new life in recent weeks.

[carlanthony24]

4 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

I am not a follower of this blogger but I'm aware others on this forum are which is how I have come to be following this issue since his problems in December and his reports on it.  Apparently he is going to make a full blog on the issue which will no doubt be fairly soon unless of course he is/has been stopped by some legal entity and assumedly this will provide more detail.

 

Since this was first broadcast four weeks ago tomorrow and now following the Watchdog/One Show broadcast the issue is gaining momentum in other places and your last paragraph seems to be in line with the current discussions.  There has also been suggestions of class actions and people have apparently been writing to the Maltese aircraft registry regarding Maleth.  It would appear this issue has new life in recent weeks.

He is doing a live stream tomorrow about Maleth. 

[pete14]

14 hours ago, carlanthony24 said:

He is doing a live stream tomorrow about Maleth. 

Who is this blogger? Does he have any legal qualifications? Has he held a senior position in the travel industry? How does anybody know that his blogs are accurate and truthful? Does he pay for all his cruises and if so, how does he afford so many? Is he based in UK rather than in a country with a different legal system from ours?
 

A lot of people seem to be putting a lot of their faith in his words and I can’t understand why. Maybe the answers to the questions above, should anybody care to provide them, will help me to understand why his words are held in such high esteem. I am also not sure whether the One Show is particularly authoritative. From looking at the background of some of the presenters, I very much doubt it. 
 

It seems completely obvious that using Maleth turned out badly. We don’t know the ins and outs of the contract which may determine liability. Something needs to be done about ensuring compensation for delays is paid according to the industry scheme in place but I would be astonished if P&Os legal team are not working on a resolution but Maleth cannot or will not pay. Speculation, rumour and guesswork are not helpful. Without the full facts, even friends and colleagues with some legal background are  unlikely to give a definitive answer.
 

I rest my case m’lud.

Edited June 17 by pete14

[yorkshirephil]

46 minutes ago, pete14 said:

Who is this blogger? Does he have any legal qualifications? Has he held a senior position in the travel industry? How does anybody know that his blogs are accurate and truthful? Does he pay for all his cruises and if so, how does he afford so many? Is he based in UK rather than in a country with a different legal system from ours?
 

A lot of people seem to be putting a lot of their faith in his words and I can’t understand why. Maybe the answers to the questions above, should anybody care to provide them, will help me to understand why his words are held in such high esteem. I am also not sure whether the One Show is particularly authoritative. From looking at the background of some of the presenters, I very much doubt it. 
 

It seems completely obvious that using Maleth turned out badly. We don’t know the ins and outs of the contract which may determine liability. Something needs to be done about ensuring compensation for delays is paid according to the industry scheme in place but I would be astonished if P&Os legal team are not working on a resolution but Maleth cannot or will not pay. Speculation, rumour and guesswork are not helpful. Without the full facts, even friends and colleagues with some legal background are  unlikely to give a definitive answer.
 

I rest my case m’lud.

It seems to be the way of the world now where so called influencers are an authority on all things. There is an interesting story where one such influencer did a blog on a Carnival ship on how to cheat the company by using the bottled water then filling the bottle with tap water and glueing the cap down. She is now banned from all Carnival ships.

[Megabear2]

59 minutes ago, pete14 said:

Who is this blogger? Does he have any legal qualifications? Has he held a senior position in the travel industry? How does anybody know that his blogs are accurate and truthful? Does he pay for all his cruises and if so, how does he afford so many? Is he based in UK rather than in a country with a different legal system from ours?
 

A lot of people seem to be putting a lot of their faith in his words and I can’t understand why. Maybe the answers to the questions above, should anybody care to provide them, will help me to understand why his words are held in such high esteem. I am also not sure whether the One Show is particularly authoritative. From looking at the background of some of the presenters, I very much doubt it. 
 

It seems completely obvious that using Maleth turned out badly. We don’t know the ins and outs of the contract which may determine liability. Something needs to be done about ensuring compensation for delays is paid according to the industry scheme in place but I would be astonished if P&Os legal team are not working on a resolution but Maleth cannot or will not pay. Speculation, rumour and guesswork are not helpful. Without the full facts, even friends and colleagues with some legal background are  unlikely to give a definitive answer.
 

I rest my case m’lud.

I've no idea who the blogger is, personally I do not normally follow any bloggers or for that matter social media.  However my recollection is quite a large number of CC members do watch this guy's blogs and I was previously told he was well regarded and respected - your guess is as good as mine as to his qualifications.

 

I can say that he was invited by Cunard to be onboard their "special" industry and bloggers cruise and following that is where I originally came across his broadcast I posted above - I have been aware of it for a few weeks but chose not to post it in the beginning, doing so only once the Watchdog/One piece aired.

 

I've been following all these Maleth events since last year, choosing not to post here as I believed it to be an airline issue.  However with Maleth not having paid out to anyone and now citing legal disputes with P&O as their reason to fail to meet their obligations I  do believe it is now of general interest to the cruising community.

 

I understand that there are other media organisations also in contact with the affected passengers which is why I say it is becoming topical again.

Edited June 17 by Megabear2

[tring]

1 hour ago, pete14 said:

Who is this blogger? Does he have any legal qualifications? Has he held a senior position in the travel industry? How does anybody know that his blogs are accurate and truthful? Does he pay for all his cruises and if so, how does he afford so many? Is he based in UK rather than in a country with a different legal system from ours?
 

A lot of people seem to be putting a lot of their faith in his words and I can’t understand why. Maybe the answers to the questions above, should anybody care to provide them, will help me to understand why his words are held in such high esteem. I am also not sure whether the One Show is particularly authoritative. From looking at the background of some of the presenters, I very much doubt it. 
 

It seems completely obvious that using Maleth turned out badly. We don’t know the ins and outs of the contract which may determine liability. Something needs to be done about ensuring compensation for delays is paid according to the industry scheme in place but I would be astonished if P&Os legal team are not working on a resolution but Maleth cannot or will not pay. Speculation, rumour and guesswork are not helpful. Without the full facts, even friends and colleagues with some legal background are  unlikely to give a definitive answer.
 

I rest my case m’lud.

 

Yes he did get things wrong in his opinions given on the video, which I had corrected above with facts.  He was giving what he had been told, as someone who has travelled on a Maleth cruise which went wrong and making his own opinions on that.  The TV consumer programmes also get things wrong fairly often, though must have some sort of legal advice.  Consumer law is very specialised and most solicitors will not be particularly knowledgeable about it and the likely outcome of cases, as it is not something they generally deal with and have experience of.

 

What Jamie and the TV have done though, is to awake interest in this, which is what MegaBear2  has pointed out.  There are legal companies that have a particular interest in taking class actions, one in particular making a name for itself in that way, so I suspect one of those may have taken an interest and decided to try a case, possibly having been contacted by a group of people who are due compensation. Social media makes it easy for people in that sort of position to communicate with each other and form a group of course.  In practice the actual compensation payable to individuals is not much, compared to the price of a cruise, so not worth pursuing as individuals and would not seem worth getting wound up about in my view.  Acting as a group though is a different matter, but still no clear cut result there.  These sort of things are always ongoing for some reason or other, (often regards holiday claims) and they take a long time to resolve (or not).

 

 

I did a bit of a net search last night and found one of Jamie's posts from a couple of months back where he says he has resigned from a job as a Spanish teacher to be a full time blogger, but will be doing some tutoring as well.  Appears to be based in the UK.

 

I have not seen any posts here which are putting any faith in his words though, certainly not a lot of faith, so not sure where that view of yours came from.

 

Edited June 17 by tring

[Megabear2]

16 hours ago, tring said:

We have listened to the video.  The CAA have no powers to force an airline to act.  The consumer would need to sue the airline, probably in the airline's own country, but have the airline got the cash to pay up?  Perhaps just a waste of time/cash.

 

In other places on the various sites covering the problems full copies of the letters claimants are receiving from the CAA are published there.  In particular there is a face cloth thread specific to the Maleth compensation matter and it is clear the CAA, probably wrongly, are directing passengers to challenge P&O through ABTA and the small claims court which I am assuming is where Jamie has taken his information from.

 

I will be interested in tonight's blog on the issue.

[9265359]

A YouTuber who gets paid if people watch their videos posting another controversial video that will get people watching and earn them money - I am shocked, utterly shocked.