Charles4515 Posted July 25 #51 Share Posted July 25 24 minutes ago, Kristelle said: I hope you like living in Japan. I have never been there. But I like living in Australia where men (and women and children) wearing shorts is extremely commonplace. I make no claims to being sophisticated though. Not surprising shorts are commonplace considering the climate in Australia. Here in Texas it is commonplace too. The climate is hot and sunny. I dress for comfort. I have no need to be sophisticated. Only wannabes dress to be sophisticated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare sparks1093 Posted July 25 #52 Share Posted July 25 20 minutes ago, Charles4515 said: That is a cultural difference and tradition. That does not make Japan more sophisticated. It makes it more rigid. That used to be the norm in the US many years ago. At least in the parts I lived in. It changed sometime in the 60’s. Personally I didn’t have any shorts except for sports until about 1980. I didn’t wear shorts regularly until I retired. Glad to have become less rigid and dress for the climate. Baseball, in the 60's: 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare CDNPolar Posted July 25 #53 Share Posted July 25 I find it interesting that two of the busiest discussions that I have happened across on CC today are both about dress code. Those that follow it and those that don't. This is a problem that we will never solve on CC. If you see someone violating the dress code on a ship you are on, complain to the crew, or at least ask why they are not enforcing the dress code. Write letters or emails to your cruise line to ask why they are not enforcing their dress code. Remember that especially on embarkation day and the next day or two, there could be folks that are on board the ship without their luggage and the crew may be making exceptions for them. (This is why my carry on always has 3 changes including one that is acceptable for dinner. This is called being prepared for all eventualities) 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles4515 Posted July 25 #54 Share Posted July 25 6 minutes ago, sparks1093 said: It depends a lot on how it's worded and it is usually both a request and a rule (at least in the ones that I've read). Usually it is something along the line of "we suggest A, B, and C for gentlemen for dinner, but X, Y, and Z are prohibited in the dining room at dinner". I have seen it stated no shorts at dinner on some cruise lines but I don’t think I have ever seen the word prohibited. I don’t get why some resist wearing long pants when it is suggested but that does not make them wrong. People who think different are often right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare sparks1093 Posted July 25 #55 Share Posted July 25 3 minutes ago, Charles4515 said: I have seen it stated no shorts at dinner on some cruise lines but I don’t think I have ever seen the word prohibited. I don’t get why some resist wearing long pants when it is suggested but that does not make them wrong. People who think different are often right. Many would read "no" as prohibited, yes? 🙂 I just read Carnival's FAQ and they say "not permitted" but specify gym or basketball shorts, leaving open the possibility of Bermuda shorts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles4515 Posted July 25 #56 Share Posted July 25 17 minutes ago, CDNPolar said: If you see someone violating the dress code on a ship you are on, complain to the crew, or at least ask why they are not enforcing the dress code. Write letters or emails to your cruise line to ask why they are not enforcing their dress code. Why bother the crew? They are doing what they know won’t get them in trouble. Their bosses don’t want them to confront passengers about their dress. You can write letters all you want but the real dress policy of the cruise line is hope passengers voluntarily comply with their dress requests. The majority of passengers will comply as long as the dress requests fit in with our culture. When they are no longer culturally normal like formal wear and became ignored the cruise lines adjusted because they are competing with other vacation options. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare sparks1093 Posted July 25 #57 Share Posted July 25 LOL, they used to dress better on the pool deck in the 60's: 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald Posted July 25 #58 Share Posted July 25 1 hour ago, Kristelle said: I hope you like living in Japan. I have never been there. But I like living in Australia where men (and women and children) wearing shorts is extremely commonplace. I make no claims to being sophisticated though. This is a very cultural issue. Every culture has its own ideas about what is acceptable and what is respectable to others. Every culture has its own standards about the efforts - or lack of - that one makes to show respect to other people. In Hawaii, we often have issues with locals wearing bathing suits in the dining room on a formal night. When speaking to them, they tell me that they are wearing their "Formal Bathing Suit". Are they wrong? Not in their culture. With Americans, we often have issues with distressed denim trousers that are ripped and torn, and ratty looking baseball caps worn indoors.When confronted, they reply that they are wearing their "Formal Denims" and their "Formal Baseball Cap". Are they wrong? Not in their culture. The challenges occur when people take their local cultural standards into an international setting, and find that the rest of the world does not have the same standards of dress and behaviour. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald Posted July 25 #59 Share Posted July 25 3 minutes ago, sparks1093 said: LOL, they used to dress better on the pool deck in the 60's: They still do - but not if they come from North America. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles4515 Posted July 25 #60 Share Posted July 25 2 minutes ago, Donald said: The challenges occur when people take their local cultural standards into an international setting, and find that the rest of the world does not have the same standards of dress and behaviour I am in agreement that we should not take our local standards into an international setting. When I travel I research the the countries. That goes for land travel and for ports on cruises. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles4515 Posted July 25 #61 Share Posted July 25 7 minutes ago, Donald said: They still do - but not if they come from North America. Nobody wears much at the pool in North America but men don’t wear Speedos. Younger women are almost naked these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare sparks1093 Posted July 25 #62 Share Posted July 25 I wonder if these gentlemen would pass muster? 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K32682 Posted July 25 #63 Share Posted July 25 (edited) 3 hours ago, Donald said: There is another group that desires to show respect to others by dressing and behaving well. Ah, now I understand. The pudgy dufus on our Alaskan cruise who squeezed himself into a tux that might have fit when he wore it on prom thirty years ago was showing my wife and I respect along with a few laughs. Edited July 25 by K32682 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsn55 Posted July 25 #64 Share Posted July 25 I'll take shorts any day if we could avoid the slob look now so popular. It's like people go to extremes to look as much like bums as possible. And they're the first ones to scream when experiencing poor service. I find it sad. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ldubs Posted July 25 #65 Share Posted July 25 Complain to the crew: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ldubs Posted July 25 #66 Share Posted July 25 (edited) 5 hours ago, Charles4515 said: I am in agreement that we should not take our local standards into an international setting. When I travel I research the the countries. That goes for land travel and for ports on cruises. And yet, we are to accept and appreciate those who choose to dress according to their local culture. It seems this animosity is aimed at a very specific culture, and perhaps by those having a hard time accepting the norm is changed. Edited July 25 by ldubs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airbear232 Posted July 25 #67 Share Posted July 25 9 hours ago, Charles4515 said: That is a cultural difference and tradition. That does not make Japan more sophisticated. It makes it more rigid. That used to be the norm in the US many years ago. At least in the parts I lived in. It changed sometime in the 60’s. Personally I didn’t have any shorts except for sports until about 1980. I didn’t wear shorts regularly until I retired. Glad to have become less rigid and dress for the climate. Pray tell, what then is your definition of sophisticated? The nuances of Japanese culture are more complex and defined than in NA and generally acknowledged to be sophisticated. North American “culture” has declined with large numbers of people incapable of living in anything other than leisure wear. I’m sorry, the standards used to be higher as was the character of people. Aspiring to wear my best t-shirt to dinner is just setting the bar way to low. I remember Zig Ziglar had said that in schools the behaviour always improved on picture taking day. This is true. I acknowledge that I’m in the minority on this, but I have certain expectations and goals for myself that do not align with dressing like a toddler. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clo Posted July 25 #68 Share Posted July 25 5 hours ago, Airbear232 said: sophisticated Just taking this on here as it's been used a number of times. IMneverHO sophistication has nothing to do with dressing a certain way. What does being sophisticated mean? /səˈfɪs·tɪˌkeɪ·t̬ɪd/ having an understanding of the world and its ways, so that you are not easily fooled, and having an understanding of people and ideas without making them seem simple: Sophisticated readers understood the book's hidden meaning. SOPHISTICATED definition | Cambridge English Dictionary Cambridge Dictionary - Cambridge University Press https://dictionary.cambridge.org › dictionary › sophistica... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olemissreb Posted July 26 #69 Share Posted July 26 15 hours ago, sparks1093 said: Baseball, in the 60's: This is how we dress for football games at my alma mater. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Kristelle Posted July 26 #70 Share Posted July 26 15 hours ago, Donald said: This is a very cultural issue. Every culture has its own ideas about what is acceptable and what is respectable to others. Every culture has its own standards about the efforts - or lack of - that one makes to show respect to other people. In Hawaii, we often have issues with locals wearing bathing suits in the dining room on a formal night. When speaking to them, they tell me that they are wearing their "Formal Bathing Suit". Are they wrong? Not in their culture. With Americans, we often have issues with distressed denim trousers that are ripped and torn, and ratty looking baseball caps worn indoors.When confronted, they reply that they are wearing their "Formal Denims" and their "Formal Baseball Cap". Are they wrong? Not in their culture. The challenges occur when people take their local cultural standards into an international setting, and find that the rest of the world does not have the same standards of dress and behaviour. yes of course one follows customs of a place one visits and of course that varies. My original point was simply saying the country you consider sophisticated (before you said where it was) was certainly not going to be Australia - since shorts for everyone are extremely commonplace here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Kristelle Posted July 26 #71 Share Posted July 26 15 hours ago, CDNPolar said: I find it interesting that two of the busiest discussions that I have happened across on CC today are both about dress code. Those that follow it and those that don't. No I dont think so It seems more those that are bothered by what others wear and those who aren't. Mostly people said they do follow the dress code - the actual dress code, not other cruiser's code - but this then seems to divide into those who do so but live and let live and those who want to be the fashion police, like OP, and tell others what to wear. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airbear232 Posted July 26 #72 Share Posted July 26 2 hours ago, clo said: Just taking this on here as it's been used a number of times. IMneverHO sophistication has nothing to do with dressing a certain way. What does being sophisticated mean? /səˈfɪs·tɪˌkeɪ·t̬ɪd/ having an understanding of the world and its ways, so that you are not easily fooled, and having an understanding of people and ideas without making them seem simple: Sophisticated readers understood the book's hidden meaning. SOPHISTICATED definition | Cambridge English Dictionary Cambridge Dictionary - Cambridge University Press https://dictionary.cambridge.org › dictionary › sophistica... You omitted part of the Cambridge definition : “having a good understanding of the way people behave and/or a good knowledge of culture and fashion.” 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rugerdog Posted July 26 #73 Share Posted July 26 18 hours ago, sparks1093 said: I wonder if these gentlemen would pass muster? Now I just really want to know what this is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare sparks1093 Posted July 26 #74 Share Posted July 26 3 hours ago, rugerdog said: Now I just really want to know what this is! Bermuda shorts worn properly, according to Conde Nast. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare sparks1093 Posted July 26 #75 Share Posted July 26 Whether any of us like it or not our culture has become much more casual. I attended a funeral yesterday and I wasn't really surprised to spot a couple of folks wearing shorts (shorts with pockets and needing a belt, not gym shorts). I figure if they are willing to wear them at a funeral they won't have any problem wearing them to dinner on a cruise. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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