Just when I thought there was nothing else to cut

[BermudaBound2014]

2 hours ago, ghjcmo said:

?  I still  have a GALLON of milk. 

 

Maybe in the example of milk, but many (most) things I buy now also have shrink inflation. Pay the same amount (or higher) and get less product in the package. Example: A half gallon of ice cream is 64 ounces. The 'half gallon' ice cream packages being sold today are 48 ounces.

 

I happened to come across an instacart order from 2021. It was $189

 

If I ordered the exact same order today it would be $422.

 

Inflation is crazy across the board (including cruising). 

 

I wonder how much HAL would actually have to charge in order to keep the quality consistent to what we were used to 5 years ago? I bet it might be more than most people are willing to spend. 

 

I'm no HAL cheerleader and that's an honest question.

[esimon]

14 hours ago, ghjcmo said:

Well for me they're simply pricing me out of the market.  Not only have they increased base fares, they've also dramatically increased the extra amenities,  While simultaneously reducing the experience. It's nothing like what it was 23 years ago when I first started cruising.  And its not going to stop because demand is off the chart.

 

Seriously. Can you name one thing that is the way it was 23 years ago. I thought I was old lol

[CruiserBruce]

2 hours ago, ghjcmo said:

No that analogy is spot on.  Do you work for the cruise lines or something?  Because you sure are "white knighting" for them a lot.  

Tell me what HAL is advertising and not providing.

 

No, I don't work for the cruise lines, but who is making it personal now? Just get tired of people who can't understand change.

[Petronillus]

7 minutes ago, CruiserBruce said:

No, I don't work for the cruise lines, but who is making it personal now? Just get tired of people who can't understand change.

I agree wholeheartedly that ad hominen attacks should be out of bounds.

[julia]

Sooooo much angst about "cruising is just not the same"... but I can honestly say that, on the 36 cruises where we've sat on our balcony, sipping wine, soaking in that mesmerizing water, watching sunlight sparkling, or moonlight shining, or taking in icy glaciers, remote atolls or deep fjords, we've never ONCE thought about how cruising has changed.  It's that FEELING of complete contentment that we've paid for, and it's ALWAYS there, without fail.  

And that, is priceless.

[doublebzz]

19 minutes ago, julia said:

Sooooo much angst about "cruising is just not the same"... but I can honestly say that, on the 36 cruises where we've sat on our balcony, sipping wine, soaking in that mesmerizing water, watching sunlight sparkling, or moonlight shining, or taking in icy glaciers, remote atolls or deep fjords, we've never ONCE thought about how cruising has changed.  It's that FEELING of complete contentment that we've paid for, and it's ALWAYS there, without fail.  

And that, is priceless.

As the author of this thread, I would like to make one final comment and then take my mid-day nap. The thread has two precepts:  cruises lines, and HAL as a prime example, have made drastic cut-backs and many posters are now dissatisfied with the result.  Minimizing or rationalizing these cutbacks is both (1) irrelevant to one's feelings; and (2) implying one is satisfied with the product despite the cutbacks.  So why not just acknowledge the cutbacks and state they still enjoy cruising like Julia has in her honest and thoughtful post I've quoted above. I can respect that.

[highscar]

@julia    Amen.    I’m with you 100% 

[Mary229]

I will tell you what I object to that is post startup that is a reduction that should be addressed. I now wait in line for the MDR regardless of the time I show up.  I waited 20 minutes last night for my reserved table.  Once in the dining room it was less than half full.  It is high time they hire enough crew.  
 

And not just in one sailing and not just on one ship.  I have been patient since 2022 but the “woe are my finances” excuse is getting long in the tooth.   Many of us have defended and been plenty patient.  I am not demanding a return of past features but basic service.   

[CruiserBruce]

8 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

I will tell you what I object to that is post startup that is a reduction that should be addressed. I now wait in line for the MDR regardless of the time I show up.  I waited 20 minutes last night for my reserved table.  Once in the dining room it was less than half full.  It is high time they hire enough crew.  
 

And not just in one sailing and not just on one ship.  I have been patient since 2022 but the “woe are my finances” excuse is getting long in the tooth.   Many of us have defended and been plenty patient.  I am not demanding a return of past features but basic service.   

Curious why you waited? Other than the first night, we never wait...we just go direct to our table.

[ghjcmo]

27 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

And not just in one sailing and not just on one ship.  I have been patient since 2022 but the “woe are my finances” excuse is getting long in the tooth.   Many of us have defended and been plenty patient.  I am not demanding a return of past features but basic service.   

 

That's because we've now been conditioned to accept the lack of basic service.  

Meanwhile  I saw an article just today how NCL had record profits in Q2,  I also saw an article that said RCL is doing so well they are reinstating stock dividends in October.  

https://cruiseradio.net/nclh-upgrades-full-year-guidance-after-strong-second-quarter/

 

https://cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/2024/07/royal-caribbean-reports-2024-q2-earnings-dividend-is-back/

[Mary229]

38 minutes ago, CruiserBruce said:

Curious why you waited? Other than the first night, we never wait...we just go direct to our table.

We tried anytime dining as we are dissatisfied with the fixed seating time slots.   We have attempted to secure a reservation for a fixed time throughout the cruise. It ended up requiring us to have the hotel manager set our reserved time but still don’t have a set table.  We have yet been able to walk up and be seated.  It is beyond frustrating.

[Seasick Sailor]

1 hour ago, CruiserBruce said:

Curious why you waited? Other than the first night, we never wait...we just go direct to our table.

 

Also questioned that.

 

She stated: I waited 20 minutes last night for my reserved table.  

 

[3rdGenCunarder]

5 minutes ago, Seasick Sailor said:

 

Also questioned that.

 

She stated: I waited 20 minutes last night for my reserved table.  

 

 

Answered in the post above yours. They haven't given her a specific table, just a time slot. I have to say, a reserved time without a table attached to it is pretty useless.

[CruiserBruce]

39 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

We tried anytime dining as we are dissatisfied with the fixed seating time slots.   We have attempted to secure a reservation for a fixed time throughout the cruise. It ended up requiring us to have the hotel manager set our reserved time but still don’t have a set table.  We have yet been able to walk up and be seated.  It is beyond frustrating.

OK. Haven't had that issue. We usually get on board, immediately go to the dining reservation podium and request a table for the duration of the cruise. They accept the request, and we have to show up at the MDR, wait in line, to find out our assignment, and just go to that table every night thereafter.

 

Note, we usually have done our research and have a list of preferred tables to seek. We almost never seek a table by a window, so that makes it much easier to get assigned a table.

[Wehwalt]

5 hours ago, ghjcmo said:

 

Yes that's exactly right.  In a perverse twist of irony, the shutdown may have been the best thing that ever happened to the cruise lines because for whatever reason, demand post shutdown  has exploded.  I thought maybe once we got past the pent up demand it might slack but it shows no signs of slowing down.  And the cruise lines know this and are taking advantage of it.  And to make matters worse, the first time cruisers are becoming a larger share of the market.  So they don't know any better.  They don't know how it used to be.

Another way of looking at it is that the cruise lines have modified their product and now appeal to a broader segment and are making progress toward paying off their massive shutdown debt. Certainly, looking at the five year chart for CCL, down two-thirds from where they were in 2019, I'm reluctant to agree with your use of "taking advantage". They are staying in business, which a lot of us had doubts about their doing four years ago. Anyone who doesn't like it has the choice we all must make.

[rj59]

I can usually do without guest lecturers, who tend to be retired professors who tend to drone on and aren't very proficient at power point or multimedia. I still find some interesting ones on Celebrity and Cunard, like a writer for "The Simpsons". It's not as terrible as cutting out the production shows, but still an awful look for the longer cruises that HAL features, just like all the corporate music venues with the same playlists on every show, every cruise. Cutting out lobster is just a cheap and stupid move, since it's not that expensive and made to impress cruisers who think of it as something rare and elegant. When I first started cruising HAL, they would offer unlimited lobster in the buffet, which was smelly but definitely set them apart. They just do so many things that are cheap moves, putting them on a level with NCL and Carnival, like no free wine brought on board, or even any sodas--even on Carnival you can bring canned soda. Then the single lunch menu was just cheap, what NCL has, as was dropping the embarkation MDR lunch. All those things just make a longer cruise very undesirable for me. I took my first Cunard cruise last year, and apart from the same basic ship design, I was struck how it felt like HAL used to be, but with additional benefits like a more diverse crew and great pub. So there are alternatives, and when they can see that cruisers like me see better options on Princess or Celebrity, then I would hope they would try to reverse some of the cutbacks or add other advantages in order to better compete--as they did by bringing back some production shows, adding more diverse regional music options (although evidently only Europeans are cultured enough to deserve classical music), and adding some variety to the lunch menu. Personally, I won't be satisfied until they bring back free chocolate-covered strawberries to the Explorations Cafe :). 

[Mary229]

22 minutes ago, CruiserBruce said:

OK. Haven't had that issue. We usually get on board, immediately go to the dining reservation podium and request a table for the duration of the cruise. They accept the request, and we have to show up at the MDR, wait in line, to find out our assignment, and just go to that table every night thereafter.

 

Note, we usually have done our research and have a list of preferred tables to seek. We almost never seek a table by a window, so that makes it much easier to get assigned a table.

I have been told by everyone including the hotel manager that having a fixed table is not doable. I did not state a preferred table, I will take any table. 

Edited August 1 by Mary229

[ghjcmo]

32 minutes ago, Wehwalt said:

 I'm reluctant to agree with your use of "taking advantage". 

 

Well you can call it what you want, but that's what they're doing.  I guess the cliche would be "making hay while the sun shines"   As for them staying in business, they're doing quite well.

 

https://cruiseradio.net/nclh-upgrades-full-year-guidance-after-strong-second-quarter/

 

https://cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/2024/07/royal-caribbean-reports-2024-q2-earnings-dividend-is-back/

Admittedly this is for NCL and RCL, but everything I've seen indicates Carnival Corp  is doing well as well.  I haven't seen their latest numbers.   (They just ordered three 8000 passenger ships so apparently they're on solid ground.)

 

Edited August 1 by ghjcmo

[VermeulT]

22 hours ago, Hlitner said:

Are we to believe that there are two different HAL's, the one that operates most of their cruises and the other which handles the longer Grand and Legendary cruises?  When I cruise on Seabourn, Princess, Oceania, Explora Journeys, etc, the product is the same whether it be a 7 day cruise or a 28 day cruise.  In fact, we know of no other cruise line that varies their standards depending on the length of the cruise.  We have taken Grand Cruises, and yes, there were some small extras, but the product was essentially what we used to experience on shorter HAL.

I think a lot of it is the passenger complement is different.  I can already see some difference with the 10 day cruises from 7.

I think HAL sees it too... you can see there are many many more 9+ day cruises in the Caribbean, only a few 7 day itineraries.

[Hlitner]

4 minutes ago, VermeulT said:

I think a lot of it is the passenger complement is different.  I can already see some difference with the 10 day cruises from 7.

I think HAL sees it too... you can see there are many many more 9+ day cruises in the Caribbean, only a few 7 day itineraries.

It is not just on HAL.  We see it on other lines where the passenger demographics of longer cruises are entirely different than the short cruises.  The first time we took a HAL Grand Cruise (it was a 62 day Grand Med) about 80% of the passengers were 4-5* Mariners.  The youngest person on that Prinsendam cruise was a 22 year old lady (Jennifer) who was accompanying her grandmother.  Folks under 75 were among the children on that fantastic voyage (one of our favorite cruises).  The onboard joke was that they emptied the south Florida nursing homes, loaded those folks on the Prinsendam, and took them all back to their nursing homes when we returned to Port Everglades (it was round trip from that port).

 

For the Caribbean (where we still like to cruise once a year) we favor 14day+ itineraries (not back to backs).  They can be hard to find, but do exist.  Princess has reinstated some true 14 day itineraries, and Silversea has a nice one this coming December.

 

Hank

[esimon]

5 hours ago, ghjcmo said:

 

As I am equally tired of people who spin stuff and try to make excuses.  It's no secret what's going on here.  Cruise demand has exploded and the cruise lines have decided to exploit that demand by increasing prices and cutting costs which leads to reduced services.  You can spin this crap about "evolution and extinction" all you want, but they are taking advantage of us. Because as I said originally, as a group we're not very smart consumers.  One of the basic foundations of the law of supply and demand is that consumers will act in their own best interests, in a rational manner.  And we don't do that.  We line up and throw money at them.

 

Look  I don't give a crap what you do and what you believe, but don't pee on my head and tell me it's raining. I know what they're doing.  And they do too, and they LOVE people  who are willing to bend over and take it.  

Omg.  STAY HOME    How dare a company try and make money.   Lol

[Mary229]

3 hours ago, Seasick Sailor said:

 

Also questioned that.

 

She stated: I waited 20 minutes last night for my reserved table.  

 

See above.  They will not assign a fixed table with a reserved time slot.  I am not exaggerating, I am not lying.  I just returned once again where being only 1 of 3 couples in line at 6:30 reserved dining yet I  had to wait once again. Again once seated I noted the dining room was less than half full. 

[BermudaBound2014]

2 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

See above.  They will not assign a fixed table with a reserved time slot.  I am not exaggerating, I am not lying.  I just returned once again where being only 1 of 3 couples in line at 6:30 reserved dining yet I  had to wait once again. Again once seated I noted the dining room was less than half full. 

 

Ridiculous.

 

How long is it taking you to get thru meals? I'm a two course chicken and anything over 1.5 hours is miserable (ADHD). 

[3rdGenCunarder]

1 hour ago, Mary229 said:

See above.  They will not assign a fixed table with a reserved time slot.  I am not exaggerating, I am not lying.  I just returned once again where being only 1 of 3 couples in line at 6:30 reserved dining yet I  had to wait once again. Again once seated I noted the dining room was less than half full. 

 

I don't know what's going on with the MDR. HAL seems to want to put everyone into open dining, even if you request fixed.  Or maybe that's what most people want?

 

I was on Zaandam last winter, fixed dining, early. Upstairs in the fixed dining area there always were empty tables. I don't know how the line was for open dining downstairs, but if it got backed up, there was plenty of room to put some of the open dining people upstairs. If there are empty tables, either upstairs or downstairs, there's no excuse to keep people waiting. 

 

In the "old days" before we were more evolved, the MDR would be full and somehow they managed to get us fed in reasonable time. 

[sunviking90]

I have been following this thread with interest and thought I would do a non-milk or grocery comparison. We have been cruising HAL, Princess and a few assorted others for over 30 years, but what I remember as the last “great” cruise we had on HAL was about 13 years ago. By “great” I mean the food was the high quality that we used to expect, service was wonderful, yum yum man, shows every evening, chocolates on the bed nightly, etc. Special coffees were still complimentary in the MDR and our son who was 17 at the time was offered multiple entrees nightly even extra lobster. The room service menu still had salmon, and there was a salmon cookout around the pool on one of our Alaska port days. 
I remember for that particular cruise we paid $3500 cad total for a balcony for the 3 of us (I think our son was a “free” 3rd promo). I also remember at the time that this was an “expensive” last minute booking. Many on the ship paid less than we did I’m sure. Apparently $3500 in today’s dollars is about $4900. I just priced out a cruise for next August, same itinerary in a base veranda for 3 people (port fees and taxes only for the 3rd to make an accurate comparison). It comes to $5600 cad. So, it has indeed gone up, for a MUCH, MUCH lesser experience. This is without any HIA, etc. 
It sounds like the legendary voyages are actually just like what a regular HAL cruise used to be like, but premium priced. 
We have cruised a lot since retirement in the last couple of years and been able to take advantage of some good post pandemic pricing, but at the  prices we are seeing now, it does make us think twice. Knowing the product that we will be receiving, we are very careful not to “overpay”. I’ll wait for a deal and if doesn’t come along, we’ll do something else. 
I don’t mind paying more for something if it is a better product, but that is not the case here.

Yes, are still cruising, and enjoying ourselves, but just really careful that we don’t overpay for a watered down product.

 

Edited August 2 by sunviking90