Holland America Cruise Pricing

[mcrcruiser]

10 minutes ago, Shippy said:

The whole point of my post was...

LOTS of cabins are doled out this way which I assume means higher prices for those that are left.

  Your post makes sense about  other cabin prices

[maggiev]

7 hours ago, ECCruise said:

Yes.

 

We are fully booked 2024 through May of 2026 (11 different sailings on 3 lines).

 

When the Europe 2026 was announced, we dove right in, looking for mid to later 2026.  Big "nope, due to pricing." 

 

Understand supply/demand, etc. but if those prices are maintained, it's sayonara, likely to cruising in general but definitely to MSM sailings.

I’d say you’ve got nothing to worry about with 11 cruises booked.  Those of us that struggle for 2 or 3 a year are feeling the crunch

[TRLD]

6 hours ago, Shippy said:

I think this might play into it a little bit.......

  We play in the casino quite a bit. Although they might call them the Holland casino, Princess Casino, Carnival Casino, etc.    They are all the same company and NOT owned by the cruise lines. It is a franchise

 This has really become big time in the last few years and the main thing they do for you is give you a free room. Anything from an inside cabin to a suite. We have not paid for a cabin in the last few years yet cruise frequently.

  You might notice the casinos are much more crowded than they used to be......

Perhaps that has jacked up the price by the cruise lines for their regular guests....

just a thought...

 

 

Cruiselines do not jack up prices because their casino company gets rooms at a discount.

 

They raise prices because they have pricing power and can raise prices.

 

Historically cruise lines have had limited pricing power. Largely because they are competing not only with other cruise lines, but the best of the travel industry. That competition put them 15% lower that other similar vacations. That was even when the industry boomed between 2010 and the start of Covid.

 

After Covid hotels, airlines and other travel prices went up significantly at the same time the cruise lines were holding prices down and trying to convince folks that it was safe to return to cruising.  Now ships are sailing full and the gap between cruise fares and other vacation travel has given the cruise lines substantial pricing power.

 

This pricing gap was commented on by the heads of the 3 main holding companies during 2023. All 3 indicated that they intended to raise prices to narrow that gap. In other words they will take advantage of the fact that they had pricing power, until bookings show that they nolonger have it. As long as ships sail full and occupancy does not drop when they raise prices they still have pricing power. When they raise prices and occupancy drops materially then they have run out.

 

It will vary by itinerary, by cruise line and even by cabin type.

Edited August 10 by TRLD

[Mary229]

8 hours ago, TRLD said:

AirBNB took a major hit due to their revenue dropping.

There have been various reports indicating that the independent Airbnb model is likely trending down permanently.  Many of the hotel companies seem to be filling that space with the advantage of consistency.  There was a single report I read that even show tourist use of Uber is trending down. The lack of consistency and reliability was always an Achilles heel for the gig economy .

 

Consistency is also a major problem for HAL and is echoed frequently on this board. The higher prices are understandable if one gets the product they expect. 

Edited August 10 by Mary229

[sambamama]

There is way more value in land vacations than cruises now, especially if you are solo and traveling in budget countries. Even without A HIA package, solo supplements are almost always 100% , and I've never seen them less than 80% on HAL. Its true that the name hotels are higher than before, but there are non name equivalents just as nice and cheaper. I haven't missed my cruises. 

[terrydtx]

50 minutes ago, sambamama said:

There is way more value in land vacations than cruises now, especially if you are solo and traveling in budget countries. Even without A HIA package, solo supplements are almost always 100% , and I've never seen them less than 80% on HAL. Its true that the name hotels are higher than before, but there are non name equivalents just as nice and cheaper. I haven't missed my cruises. 

We tend to add land trips with our cruise vacations and find the land portions are much less on a per day basis than a cruise. In January we followed up our 10-day Celebrity Edge Australian cruise with a 10-day driving trip from Melbourne to Adelaide and back to Melbourne. In Melbourne and Adelaide we stayed in Hilton hotels and along the way in very nice coastal B&B or Inns. Our cruise was in a suite with included drinks, tips and wi-fi and our cost per day was a little over $1000 per day. That was based on the booking price when we booked that had increased by 40% after we booked in 2022. At the time we sailed our same cabin would have cost us about $1400 per day. For our 10 day land trip we spent less than $4000 including hotel, car rental, meals and gas. This really opened our eyes and we are now doing less sea days and more land days in the future. Even if our Australia cruise had been in a lower class verandah cabin, the land portion would have been less cost overall. In retrospect, if our Australia trip had been 20 days all on land, we could have driven to every place we visited on the cruise and saved thousands of dollars.

Edited August 10 by terrydtx

[Lido deck main]

7 hours ago, Mary229 said:

There have been various reports indicating that the independent Airbnb model is likely trending down permanently.  Many of the hotel companies seem to be filling that space with the advantage of consistency.  There was a single report I read that even show tourist use of Uber is trending down. The lack of consistency and reliability was always an Achilles heel for the gig economy .

 

Consistency is also a major problem for HAL and is echoed frequently on this board. The higher prices are understandable if one gets the product they expect. 

RE Airbnb:  In Vancouver there is a bylaw from people renting out rooms for less than 30 days, the reason being it is thought that the people renting out rooms for short term rentals is taking away from the long term rental market that is needed for so many people here.  

[terrydtx]

4 minutes ago, Lido deck main said:

RE Airbnb:  In Vancouver there is a bylaw from people renting out rooms for less than 30 days, the reason being it is thought that the people renting out rooms for short term rentals is taking away from the long term rental market that is needed for so many people here.  

My city, San Antonio, Texas just passed an ordinance that short term rentals must have a city license and collect and pay the city Hotel occupancy tax of 16.5%. Part of the licensing requirements is a yearly city inspection of the rentals to make sure they conform to city fire and safety codes. It also makes it illegal for any rental platform like VRBO to list rentals that do not have a city license. This puts the short-term rentals on a more even playing field with our hotel industry.

[Hlitner]

Unfortunately, the OP does speak the truth!  Inflation and demand have caught-up with the cruise industry, and HAL is no exception.  We laughingly call ourselves "equal opportunity cruisers" because we look at options with many cruise lines with the term "value" being a very important factor.  Since COVID, the best value has been found (at least by us) with the ultra luxury lines (Seabourn, Silversea, Explora Journey, etc).  Consider that a balcony cabin on next year's Voyage of the Vikings (a favorite cruise of DW) will cost about $400 per person/day (with the HIA package).  We sometimes find decent small ship luxury cruises for less!  

 

Finding a good value, or simply stumbling on a bargain, means looking around with an open mind, flexibility (in terms of cruise lines, ships and itineraries).  Limiting oneself to one or two cruise lines really reduces the chances of finding the most interesting values.  There are some decent cruise data bases (all run by cruise agencies) that make it easy to look for cruises across all the cruise lines/itineraries.  

 

Had to smile at the posts about Casino specials, as we think that HAL has really pushed into that market.  But folks need to use common sense :).  I once met a fellow cruiser, on Princess, that told me they were cruising for free because of a casino deal.  And then his wife added, "yes, but we lost over $20,000 in the casino to get this free cruise."   When I think of gamblers, I think about Las Vegas, which is an amazing city.  All those gorgeous hotels/casinos were built from the proceeds of gamblers....most of whom insist that they win!  Really?

 

Hank

[albingirl]

I'm surely in the minority, but I have only one cruise booked, an international one.  I just got home from the grocery store and the prices are staggering now.  I am not in the minority when I speak of this.  Lucky I live at the beach now and don't have to cruise for that.  But, I do miss the days when we could cruise often.  Those days are gone. Sigh.

[terrydtx]

It's also not the just the price of a cruise, airfares in the last two years have gone up more than the cruise lines. In 2022 we flew to Rome from Texas and home from Venice in Business Class for $2285pp. We are looking at a 2 week land trip in Italy for the May of 2025 and we are looking at over $4500pp RT BC to Rome. Premium Economy on the same flights is more than BC in 2022. PE is the least class we will fly overseas. We are taking our grandson to Hawaii next June flying to Kona from DFW is $3300pp for BC on American or United.

[BermudaBound2014]

21 hours ago, FlorenceItaly said:

I have been saying this for a few years about everything.  People keep spending!

 

Exactly. And many are using credit cards to fund vacations. The average household credit card debt rose 6% last year. IMO, that debt not sustainable and typically indicates a market correction.

 

https://www.newyorkfed.org/microeconomics/hhdc.html

 

 

Inflation is very real, as any trip to a local grocery store will testify. Lots of evidence that the travel industry is softening. It's likely that will eventually be passed along to consumers in lower fares. Right now, cruise lines have done a wonderful job of securing future bookings through low deposit marketing. I suspect the future booking numbers are inflated.

 

 

[Mary229]

Airfare is becoming a major issue as @terrydtx said.  It in part explains the boom in Alaska and eastern Canada.  I have a few international destinations in the list but if I can’t get the air at the right level I will cancel. I can’t come to grips with 10 + hour economy fares nor do I want to do another transpacific crossing 

[terrydtx]

39 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

Airfare is becoming a major issue as @terrydtx said.  It in part explains the boom in Alaska and eastern Canada.  I have a few international destinations in the list but if I can’t get the air at the right level I will cancel. I can’t come to grips with 10 + hour economy fares nor do I want to do another transpacific crossing 

I was shocked that we got a really good FC/BC fare for our Volendam Cruise next week. We booked the air in April. On American we go from San Antonio to Boston (FC) and home from Montreal (BC) for $1259pp. Like you said its Eastern Canada so less demand for a better price.

[TRLD]

11 hours ago, Mary229 said:

There have been various reports indicating that the independent Airbnb model is likely trending down permanently.  Many of the hotel companies seem to be filling that space with the advantage of consistency.  There was a single report I read that even show tourist use of Uber is trending down. The lack of consistency and reliability was always an Achilles heel for the gig economy .

 

Consistency is also a major problem for HAL and is echoed frequently on this board. The higher prices are understandable if one gets the product they expect. 

As far as HAL goes that is from a relatively small sample of mostly long term cruisers that post here and on other social media. Not exactly a good statistical cross section.

 

HAL seems to have good occupancy based upon the cruises I have tried to book with them. Especially this summer in Alaska. Also when I looked at the Cruise market watch revenue data compared to the fleet capacity they came out just below Celebrity, pretty close. Which would indicate that their revenue per lower berth is pretty good. That would also indicate good occupancy across their fleet in 2024.

 

Unfortunately do not have a source for broken out expense data, but still looking.

 

Cruise lines in the past have tended to do well during economic downturns because they have been the lower cost per day alternative to other vacation choices.

 

The last recession we have experienced, other than covid when the cruises were shutdown, was the 2008 and 2009 period. Cruise occupancy stayed high during that period and Cruise lines actual grew during the recession. Land based hotels have always been more impacted by economic fluctuations.

 

At most I expect the cruise line to lose additional power and probably run more sales if hotel prices soften more.

Edited August 10 by TRLD

[TRLD]

5 hours ago, terrydtx said:

We tend to add land trips with our cruise vacations and find the land portions are much less on a per day basis than a cruise. In January we followed up our 10-day Celebrity Edge Australian cruise with a 10-day driving trip from Melbourne to Adelaide and back to Melbourne. In Melbourne and Adelaide we stayed in Hilton hotels and along the way in very nice coastal B&B or Inns. Our cruise was in a suite with included drinks, tips and wi-fi and our cost per day was a little over $1000 per day. That was based on the booking price when we booked that had increased by 40% after we booked in 2022. At the time we sailed our same cabin would have cost us about $1400 per day. For our 10 day land trip we spent less than $4000 including hotel, car rental, meals and gas. This really opened our eyes and we are now doing less sea days and more land days in the future. Even if our Australia cruise had been in a lower class verandah cabin, the land portion would have been less cost overall. In retrospect, if our Australia trip had been 20 days all on land, we could have driven to every place we visited on the cruise and saved thousands of dollars.

Of course most cruise passengers are not spending $500 per person per day. More like 175 to 250 per person per day. For many as low as $125. Basically a cruise can be had for 2 at about the same as the per day cost of a holiday inn express.

 

 

 

[rodndonna]

17 minutes ago, TRLD said:

Of course most cruise passengers are not spending $500 per person per day. More like 175 to 250 per person per day. For many as low as $125. Basically a cruise can be had for 2 at about the same as the per day cost of a holiday inn express.

 

 

 

 

This is our case for our upcoming Can/NE cruise. Our pre-cruise hotel to catch our early flight (ALT at Toronto airport) is more than our daily cost for 2 on our cruise. It is one of the rare times we book without HIA , but it is still hotel, meals, entertainment and travel daily for less than the cost of a standard hotel for a night.

 

We booked with a Casino discount, but it is the price late bookers will also pay now.

[terrydtx]

29 minutes ago, TRLD said:

Of course most cruise passengers are not spending $500 per person per day. More like 175 to 250 per person per day. For many as low as $125. Basically a cruise can be had for 2 at about the same as the per day cost of a holiday inn express.

 

 

 

That may be true but when we cruise it is in better suites or verandah cabins, just like we prefer to fly FC or BC. We are also very picky on hotels and prefer 3 to 5 star name brands like Hilton, Marriott or Hyatt. Our Vista Suite on the Volendam next week for 11 days with the HIA is $382pp per day or $762 total per night for both of us. We are staying 3 nights in Quebec City after the cruise in a 5 star hotel for $371 per night.

Edited August 10 by terrydtx

[cbr663]

7 hours ago, sambamama said:

There is way more value in land vacations than cruises now, especially if you are solo and traveling in budget countries. Even without A HIA package, solo supplements are almost always 100% , and I've never seen them less than 80% on HAL. Its true that the name hotels are higher than before, but there are non name equivalents just as nice and cheaper. I haven't missed my cruises. 

 

We are not solo cruises and we also feel there is way more value in land vacations than cruises right now.  We are trending to more and more land based travelling as for us, we get much more for less money per day cruising.

 

We don't have any cruises booked right now.  My DW has made it quite clear that she hasn't any interest in getting on a ship anytime in the near future.  We did our first river cruise in June as an alternative to river cruising.  We add a short 3-day pre-cruise land based add-on and we enjoyed that more than the river ship experience.  We don't regret that we took the river cruise.  We are though one and done.  Again, value for what we paid wasn't there.  We were expecting much, much more than what we received.

 

And so, we have 2 more land based vacations booked this year.  We are looking at a land based vacation to Switzerland next year.  We also don't miss cruising.

[TRLD]

26 minutes ago, terrydtx said:

That may be true but when we cruise it is in better suites or verandah cabins, just like we prefer to fly FC or BC. We are also very picky on hotels and prefer 3 to 5 star name brands like Hilton, Marriott or Hyatt. Our Vista Suite on the Volendam next week for 11 days with the HIA is $382pp per day or $762 total per night for both of us. We are staying 3 nights in Quebec City after the cruise in a 5 star hotel for $371 per night.

Just to compare apples to apples are you staying in a suite in the hotel. How much are your meals per day? Drinks?  The difference narrows when those are included. If you were staying in a verandah cabin instead of a Vista Suite the cruise per day would probably be less.

 

One can always tilt it one way or the other based upon their choices.  The data that the cruise lines, and other businesses look at is across the complete competitive landscape.

 

Also as I mentioned in an earlier post pricing power will vary by line, itinerary, and by cabin type.

Edited August 10 by TRLD

[cbr663]

22 minutes ago, terrydtx said:

That may be true but when we cruise it is in better suites or verandah cabins, just like we prefer to fly FC or BC. We are also very picky on hotels and prefer 3 to 5 star name brands like Hilton, Marriott or Hyatt. Our Vista Suite on the Volendam next week for 11 days with the HIA is $382pp per day or $762 total per night for both of us. We are staying 3 nights in Quebec City after the cruise in a 5 star hotel for $371 per night.

 

We also travel much the same way.  Our 5 star hotel stays in suites cost less than many balcony cabins on HAL.  When the '26 European Season was released I priced a 7 day Norway cruise.  It was more than $1800 a day CDN for a Neptune Suite.  We can enjoy a lot of great hotel rooms and great food for $1800 a day.

[TRLD]

52 minutes ago, cbr663 said:

 

We also travel much the same way.  Our 5 star hotel stays in suites cost less than many balcony cabins on HAL.  When the '26 European Season was released I priced a 7 day Norway cruise.  It was more than $1800 a day CDN for a Neptune Suite.  We can enjoy a lot of great hotel rooms and great food for $1800 a day.

Maybe less than you think in Switzerland. It is our favorite country to visit and spend time in, but a bit pricey.  We spend time there every other year.

 

A pasta meal that cost 10 Euro in Northern Italy cost 30 Swiss Francs once you cross the boarder (at that time the exchange rate for the franc and the Euro was similar.

[TRLD]

5 hours ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

Exactly. And many are using credit cards to fund vacations. The average household credit card debt rose 6% last year. IMO, that debt not sustainable and typically indicates a market correction.

 

https://www.newyorkfed.org/microeconomics/hhdc.html

 

 

Inflation is very real, as any trip to a local grocery store will testify. Lots of evidence that the travel industry is softening. It's likely that will eventually be passed along to consumers in lower fares. Right now, cruise lines have done a wonderful job of securing future bookings through low deposit marketing. I suspect the future booking numbers are inflated.

 

 

Look at 2005 through 2019. Cruise lines had pretty stable occupancy through the recession of 2008/2009.

 

Cruise lines actually expanded during those recession years while hotels and air lines took a beating.

 

In the past cruise lines have been more resilient than either the hotel or airlines during economic down turns (as long as they are allowed to keep operating, unlike Covid).

 

Usually it mean more sales/spot discounts being offered, but not much impact on occupancy.

 

Another factor is that cruise lines have shifted more revenue to onboard spend via the packages. This keeps fares a bit lower and does provide room for one to lower cost of a cruise vacation by dropping packages and managing onboard spend a bit tighter.

Edited August 10 by TRLD

[BermudaBound2014]

39 minutes ago, TRLD said:

Look at 2005 through 2019. Cruise lines had pretty stable occupancy through the recession of 2008/2009.

 

They had stable occupancy because they were giving away cruises in order to fill them. I've been cruising since 1985 and the 2008-2010 time period had some of the cheapest sailings of the last 40 years. $299 for a 7 day cruise in a balcony was pretty standard practice.

 

What do you mean by 'cruise lines expanded'??? Are you talking new builds coming online? If so, we both know those were ordered years before the recession. The recession did bring cruise ship order books to a screaming halt.

 

Cruise line stock sure also took a beating and earnings were amiss.

 

 

 

Please define what you mean by "cruise lines expanded" from 2007-2008.

Edited August 10 by BermudaBound2014

[cbr663]

45 minutes ago, TRLD said:

Maybe less than you think in Switzerland. It is our favorite country to visit and spend time in, but a bit pricey.  We spend time there every other year.

 

A pasta meal that cost 10 Euro in Northern Italy cost 30 Swiss Francs once you cross the boarder (at that time the exchange rate for the franc and the Euro was similar.

 

We were in Switzerland in June so well aware of the costs.