Is Holland America Line falling behind?

[CNSJ]

On 9/2/2024 at 5:06 PM, cruiser man 60 said:

but smaller all luxury suite ships like Explora . So there’s obviously a market for even more new ships.

Now that Explora has a second ship I decided to research them a bit more.  

 

All cabins on Explora are balcony - with two lowest price Ocean Terrace cabins (over bars etc.) They are about the size of the Vista Suites on HAL's Pinnacle Class ships.  

 

On a 14 day Eastern Mediterranean Run I compared HAL and Explora a year out.

 

Average Price on EXPLORA was about US$570 a night but was "all inclusive"  - Suites moved the price up much higher.  Kind of in the middle between HAL and Seabourn.

 

Average Price on HAL was about US$290 a night/pp  for a VA or V cabin (no HIA), about $360 with HIA.  If I bumped up to a Neptune Suite on HAL (with HIA) , cost was about the same per night at Explora's base cabin.  HIA allows us to compare a close to all inclusive HAL. 

 

So in the end, at least for me, I can take two 14 day HAL cruises in a VA cabin for about the same price as one on Explora.  But, the Explora cruise might be more enjoyable, visit some smaller ports, and be much more luxurious I am sure.  DW and I are sticking with HAL for now. We are satisfied with service, food, cabins etc., and want to cruise more during the years we can travel without issue.

 

Sometimes when we want to try a new cruise line we look at Transatlantic cruises.  They are 14-18 days with many sea days.  That allows you a chance to spend real time on the ship, try all the restaurants and bars and get a good feel for the ship and its amenities.  On a port intensive itinerary like the Aegean Sea, we spend much less time onboard so I can't see the cost difference.

 

[Sdfgh]

19 minutes ago, CNSJ said:

Now that Explora has a second ship I decided to research them a bit more.  

 

All cabins on Explora are balcony - with two lowest price Ocean Terrace cabins (over bars etc.) They are about the size of the Vista Suites on HAL's Pinnacle Class ships.  

 

On a 14 day Eastern Mediterranean Run I compared HAL and Explora a year out.

 

Average Price on EXPLORA was about US$570 a night but was "all inclusive"  - Suites moved the price up much higher.  Kind of in the middle between HAL and Seabourn.

 

Average Price on HAL was about US$290 a night/pp  for a VA or V cabin (no HIA), about $360 with HIA.  If I bumped up to a Neptune Suite on HAL (with HIA) , cost was about the same per night at Explora's base cabin.  HIA allows us to compare a close to all inclusive HAL. 

 

So in the end, at least for me, I can take two 14 day HAL cruises in a VA cabin for about the same price as one on Explora.  But, the Explora cruise might be more enjoyable, visit some smaller ports, and be much more luxurious I am sure.  DW and I are sticking with HAL for now. We are satisfied with service, food, cabins etc., and want to cruise more during the years we can travel without issue.

 

Sometimes when we want to try a new cruise line we look at Transatlantic cruises.  They are 14-18 days with many sea days.  That allows you a chance to spend real time on the ship, try all the restaurants and bars and get a good feel for the ship and its amenities.  On a port intensive itinerary like the Aegean Sea, we spend much less time onboard so I can't see the cost difference.

 

I believe that you are making a wise decision. I too am looking at other options besides HAL.  We are trying Oceania . Here it’s under $100 per day pp. more. It however includes internet , some alcohol, and $300 pp in shore excursions . So really not much of a difference. Also we wanted their newest ship. I’m hopeful it will be great 

[UPNYGuy]

1 hour ago, Hlitner said:

Those lines command a premium price because that offer a premium product.  HAL now plays to a mostly budget oriented clientele and has become something close to a budget cruise line.  We enjoy premium and luxury products (now on the Seabourn Encore) but also sometimes book budget lines (like HAL) with low expectations.  I do wonder if HAL will morph into the CMV line for North America.  They had an OK budget product with older ships until they finally failed.

 

Hank

This is exactly what my point was. My wife and I will book on a large, 45,000 passenger vessel, but we typically do it in the ship with ship area (yacht club, havana…) and know what we are getting. 

[UPNYGuy]

16 minutes ago, Sdfgh said:

I believe that you are making a wise decision. I too am looking at other options besides HAL.  We are trying Oceania . Here it’s under $100 per day pp. more. It however includes internet , some alcohol, and $300 pp in shore excursions . So really not much of a difference. Also we wanted their newest ship. I’m hopeful it will be great 

DW and I occasionally venture to Oceania as well when we want to go out of the way. Occasionally, they have some unique itineraries that include Bermuda, and some itineraries for Alaska that go to less traveled ports.

[howiefrommd]

1 hour ago, Sdfgh said:

I don’t believe HAL is a “ budget “ cruise line, it certainly doesn’t market itself as such. When speaking with fellow cruisers they look at HAL as attracting an older, more well traveled crowd. All our friends believe the food and especially the staff on HAL superior to Carnival, Princess, RC, MSC, Costa, and Celebrity. Prices are comparable to those other cruise lines and in most cases slightly higher. Your idea of booking a “budget “ cruise line like HAL with “low expectations “ is quite frankly absurd. Why bother going away?  Would people eat in “budget “ restaurants with “low expectations” ? 

I would not use the word "budget" (although who knows if there is even one now lol) but I must say that I have gotten amazingly well priced cruises at a fraction of what they started out as (price wise). Most of these are the result or upsell offers.

 

What blurs the picture even more are these wacky last minute cruise deals from Holland.  Maybe that might put them more in line with a budget (not in a negative way) line.

[Hlitner]

1 hour ago, Sdfgh said:

I don’t believe HAL is a “ budget “ cruise line, it certainly doesn’t market itself as such. When speaking with fellow cruisers they look at HAL as attracting an older, more well traveled crowd. All our friends believe the food and especially the staff on HAL superior to Carnival, Princess, RC, MSC, Costa, and Celebrity. Prices are comparable to those other cruise lines and in most cases slightly higher. Your idea of booking a “budget “ cruise line like HAL with “low expectations “ is quite frankly absurd. Why bother going away?  Would people eat in “budget “ restaurants with “low expectations” ? 

We have cruised on all those lines (with the exception of Costa).  In the past 1 1/2 years we have been on Princess, Oceania, Seabourn, Explora Journeys and have an upcoming cruise on Silversea.  We do have one future HAL booking (a 35 day voyage) with a refundable deposit and will likely base a final go-no go decision on what we see here on CC.  

 

Why do I say HAL is a budget line?  Add-ons for lousy lobster, steak in the MDR, ridiculous art auctions taking over too much space (sorry to those who disagree about those auctions), many passengers cruising at free to very low prices because of gambler specials, Interline rates, etc.  

 

You ask why bother going away?  The main draw, for us, of HAL is simply a few of their itineraries.  HAL has long had some terrific itineraries which we think is still their strong suit and can make "lower expectations" a reasonable trade-off.  Our last HAL voyage (42 days on the Westerdam) was not acceptable (on many levels) which has kept us away from HAL for nearly 2 years.  

 

I will mention the situation with HAL crew.  At one time we thought the crew really special and always were in attendance for their Indonesian and Filopino staff shows.  On our last HAL cruise, there were no shows, and service suffered due to some staffing problems and an influx of many new crew.  Some of this was not HAL's fault and due to issues related to COVID.  But we would no longer rate HAL's crew any better than what we have had on Princess, MSC (Yacht Club), or O.  It is also enlightening when we meet past HAL crew members (including officers) on other lines and ask them why they changed companies.  Just consider that here on Seabourn, most of the crew work 3-4 month contracts as compared to much longer contracts found on HAL (and some other lines).  They also do not need to rely on "tipping pools" for part of their compensation.  Shorter contracts are great for morale, and help ease the situation for the many crew members who have children.

 

Hank

[Sdfgh]

23 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

We have cruised on all those lines (with the exception of Costa).  In the past 1 1/2 years we have been on Princess, Oceania, Seabourn, Explora Journeys and have an upcoming cruise on Silversea.  We do have one future HAL booking (a 35 day voyage) with a refundable deposit and will likely base a final go-no go decision on what we see here on CC.  

 

Why do I say HAL is a budget line?  Add-ons for lousy lobster, steak in the MDR, ridiculous art auctions taking over too much space (sorry to those who disagree about those auctions), many passengers cruising at free to very low prices because of gambler specials, Interline rates, etc.  

 

You ask why bother going away?  The main draw, for us, of HAL is simply a few of their itineraries.  HAL has long had some terrific itineraries which we think is still their strong suit and can make "lower expectations" a reasonable trade-off.  Our last HAL voyage (42 days on the Westerdam) was not acceptable (on many levels) which has kept us away from HAL for nearly 2 years.  

 

I will mention the situation with HAL crew.  At one time we thought the crew really special and always were in attendance for their Indonesian and Filopino staff shows.  On our last HAL cruise, there were no shows, and service suffered due to some staffing problems and an influx of many new crew.  Some of this was not HAL's fault and due to issues related to COVID.  But we would no longer rate HAL's crew any better than what we have had on Princess, MSC (Yacht Club), or O.  It is also enlightening when we meet past HAL crew members (including officers) on other lines and ask them why they changed companies.  Just consider that here on Seabourn, most of the crew work 3-4 month contracts as compared to much longer contracts found on HAL (and some other lines).  They also do not need to rely on "tipping pools" for part of their compensation.  Shorter contracts are great for morale, and help ease the situation for the many crew members who have children.

 

Hank

I do agree with you regarding crew members. Our most recent sailings on HAL had some less experienced crew. Also don’t like the nickel and dime tactics introduced by HAL. As far as pooling MY tips amongst HALs 11 ships is ridiculous. When I had a confidential conversation with a HAL employee, he informed me that the ships in the Caribbean and Alaska bring in the majority of the tips because they have the largest amount of Americans onboard. Tipping is not a part of many other cultures. I personally think that it’s a lot of BS , however, I’m tired of subsidizing the others who go out of their way to opt out of the tips. I guess opting out is part and their culture. Anyway, there are so many pricing options, many of them include paid gratuities, basically pre paying your tips at a discounted rate. Shorter contracts would also make for happier staff, although I have never heard of any HAL employee complaining or showing a lack of enthusiasm for their work. The positive aspect of having a huge staff from the Philippines is they all speak the same language which garners a camaraderie. BTW, HAL has expanded their hiring to several other countries due to a shortage of staff post pandemic.

[Blackduck59]

1 hour ago, Sdfgh said:

I do agree with you regarding crew members. Our most recent sailings on HAL had some less experienced crew. Also don’t like the nickel and dime tactics introduced by HAL. As far as pooling MY tips amongst HALs 11 ships is ridiculous. When I had a confidential conversation with a HAL employee, he informed me that the ships in the Caribbean and Alaska bring in the majority of the tips because they have the largest amount of Americans onboard. Tipping is not a part of many other cultures. I personally think that it’s a lot of BS , however, I’m tired of subsidizing the others who go out of their way to opt out of the tips. I guess opting out is part and their culture. Anyway, there are so many pricing options, many of them include paid gratuities, basically pre paying your tips at a discounted rate. Shorter contracts would also make for happier staff, although I have never heard of any HAL employee complaining or showing a lack of enthusiasm for their work. The positive aspect of having a huge staff from the Philippines is they all speak the same language which garners a camaraderie. BTW, HAL has expanded their hiring to several other countries due to a shortage of staff post pandemic.

Tipping is often included in the fare in places where that is not part of the culture, they don't have the option to "remove" them, they are not billed as such. I think you will find that the vast majority of those removing the "Crew Appreciation" are indeed Americans. I know lots of folks in Australia, and tipping is not part of their culture, For those cruises the "Crew Appreciation" is included in their fare and they wouldn't even consider removing it. Even when they sail on cruises that charge "crew appreciation" they would never consider removing them. For them it is part of the fare and should just be included in the fare. I'm afraid "tipping" is very much an American/North American thing born out of the idea of bribing the server to get better service.

[TRLD]

4 hours ago, Sdfgh said:

I do agree with you regarding crew members. Our most recent sailings on HAL had some less experienced crew. Also don’t like the nickel and dime tactics introduced by HAL. As far as pooling MY tips amongst HALs 11 ships is ridiculous. When I had a confidential conversation with a HAL employee, he informed me that the ships in the Caribbean and Alaska bring in the majority of the tips because they have the largest amount of Americans onboard. Tipping is not a part of many other cultures. I personally think that it’s a lot of BS , however, I’m tired of subsidizing the others who go out of their way to opt out of the tips. I guess opting out is part and their culture. Anyway, there are so many pricing options, many of them include paid gratuities, basically pre paying your tips at a discounted rate. Shorter contracts would also make for happier staff, although I have never heard of any HAL employee complaining or showing a lack of enthusiasm for their work. The positive aspect of having a huge staff from the Philippines is they all speak the same language which garners a camaraderie. BTW, HAL has expanded their hiring to several other countries due to a shortage of staff post pandemic.

HAL was hiring from other countries even before the pandemic. Malaysia and indonesia provides many of the workers. Kitchen staff from India. 

[HappyInVan]

12 hours ago, Sdfgh said:

I am sure CCL was in huge debt because of Covid, as was the entire cruise industry. The are doing well now and spending their money selectively, very selectively, and HAL is not part of it.

 

Exactly! IMO, CCL used the debt argument to suspend orders. But, the industry is rushing forward with the huge LNG ships because of their cost efficiency. So, CCL has to follow or die.

 

Would HAL ever get those mega LNG ships? Would HAL's customer base accept the new ships? Can HAL survive without those ships?

 

We should note that even before covid, CCL was one of the first to join the mega LNG bandwagon...

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excellence-class_cruise_ship

 

By 2020, AIDA Costa Carnival and P&O had already taken delivery of the 180k GT. Where does it leave the smaller ships? The older ships won't be eco-friendly enough to visit Geiranger Fjord etc. 

 

For companies with large and small ships, it becomes more difficult to accept lower profits from the smaller ships. Unless, the smaller ships earn more revenue per pax to pay for higher costs.

 

Ultimately, who were HAL's core customers? IMO, HAL used to be Cunard-lite. Pax were willing to pay more for a classy entertaining cruise. Today, these customers are fleeing for the exciting new small luxury ships. As well as MSC Yacht Club (ship within a ship). 

 

Who are HAL's core customers today? Why should CCL provide them with expensive small new ships?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_Nova

 

Edited September 9 by HappyInVan

[sambamama]

My last 3 cruises were a 7 night cruise around the Greek islands on Celystal, a 14 night (3 time postponed ) Singapore to Hong Kong cruise on the Noordam, and a 14 night night Panama Canal cruise on Princess. 

 

Yes, HAL is falling far behind. They still have great itineraries and fabulous crews, and big cabins. The food is still good, but falling fast in quality. But the entertainment is awful, especially with the loss of Lincoln Center. There was no classical musicon my long postponed cruise, which would have had it, and when I fly that that far, I was upset. Some of the foods I love were hone by the postponement. There was a library, but not like before.  But the value isn't there for me with a 100% single supplement. 

 

Princess had tons of entertainment, including classical, and it was all day long. The food was even better than HAL's. My room was fine, although smaller than HAL. I'd sail on Princess again over HAL.

 

I was very surprised with Celestyal. They offer a 50% single supplement. You get free wine and beer with lunch and dinner. The ship was the old Ryndam. The food was good to very good. You get a 20% discount by booking tours ahead, and you get a discount just by booking a cruise. AND the tours are reasonably priced and excellent!! The archeological tours I booked were given by archeologists!!!! And you stay in some of the ports a long time. I was very pleasantly surprised, and I would sail again gladly. IMHO, this is a missed opportunity for HAL or other cruise lines. If they offered good tours AND fairly priced tours, I would book with them. But they don''t and so I don't. 

 

I am a 4 star and I've sailed with HAL since 1987. I've sailed 7 nights to 20 nights. I sail with HAL because I love the smaller ships and the quality service and what I was used to. But the new HAL isn't interested in me. They want to sell to a family of 4. They want me to buy a cabin at 100%single supplement, even though I usually spend $1000 on ship. It's not worth that to me. Not for what I get. I want to listen to classical music and get books from a library and order chilled fruit soup and get candied ginger from the yum yum man and see the crew show. But those days are over.

[Sdfgh]

1 hour ago, sambamama said:

My last 3 cruises were a 7 night cruise around the Greek islands on Celystal, a 14 night (3 time postponed ) Singapore to Hong Kong cruise on the Noordam, and a 14 night night Panama Canal cruise on Princess. 

 

Yes, HAL is falling far behind. They still have great itineraries and fabulous crews, and big cabins. The food is still good, but falling fast in quality. But the entertainment is awful, especially with the loss of Lincoln Center. There was no classical musicon my long postponed cruise, which would have had it, and when I fly that that far, I was upset. Some of the foods I love were hone by the postponement. There was a library, but not like before.  But the value isn't there for me with a 100% single supplement. 

 

Princess had tons of entertainment, including classical, and it was all day long. The food was even better than HAL's. My room was fine, although smaller than HAL. I'd sail on Princess again over HAL.

 

I was very surprised with Celestyal. They offer a 50% single supplement. You get free wine and beer with lunch and dinner. The ship was the old Ryndam. The food was good to very good. You get a 20% discount by booking tours ahead, and you get a discount just by booking a cruise. AND the tours are reasonably priced and excellent!! The archeological tours I booked were given by archeologists!!!! And you stay in some of the ports a long time. I was very pleasantly surprised, and I would sail again gladly. IMHO, this is a missed opportunity for HAL or other cruise lines. If they offered good tours AND fairly priced tours, I would book with them. But they don''t and so I don't. 

 

I am a 4 star and I've sailed with HAL since 1987. I've sailed 7 nights to 20 nights. I sail with HAL because I love the smaller ships and the quality service and what I was used to. But the new HAL isn't interested in me. They want to sell to a family of 4. They want me to buy a cabin at 100%single supplement, even though I usually spend $1000 on ship. It's not worth that to me. Not for what I get. I want to listen to classical music and get books from a library and order chilled fruit soup and get candied ginger from the yum yum man and see the crew show. But those days are over.

You accurately describe some of HALs shortcomings. Yes, I do believe that they have not yet reached rock bottom. I too miss what HAL once was and my hope for HAL to return to its glory days are sinking. With no plans for any new ships for the next decade, or perhaps forever, CCL is just trying to use what HAL currently has and run it to the ground. Thankfully, there are many options out there to take HALs place.

[Sdfgh]

9 hours ago, HappyInVan said:

 

Exactly! IMO, CCL used the debt argument to suspend orders. But, the industry is rushing forward with the huge LNG ships because of their cost efficiency. So, CCL has to follow or die.

 

Would HAL ever get those mega LNG ships? Would HAL's customer base accept the new ships? Can HAL survive without those ships?

 

We should note that even before covid, CCL was one of the first to join the mega LNG bandwagon...

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excellence-class_cruise_ship

 

By 2020, AIDA Costa Carnival and P&O had already taken delivery of the 180k GT. Where does it leave the smaller ships? The older ships won't be eco-friendly enough to visit Geiranger Fjord etc. 

 

For companies with large and small ships, it becomes more difficult to accept lower profits from the smaller ships. Unless, the smaller ships earn more revenue per pax to pay for higher costs.

 

Ultimately, who were HAL's core customers? IMO, HAL used to be Cunard-lite. Pax were willing to pay more for a classy entertaining cruise. Today, these customers are fleeing for the exciting new small luxury ships. As well as MSC Yacht Club (ship within a ship). 

 

Who are HAL's core customers today? Why should CCL provide them with expensive small new ships?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_Nova

 

I am just wondering why mid size LNG ships are not being built. The profit in mega ships may be greater, however, there is definitely a market for smaller ships as well. Just like fuel efficient cars come in all sizes and price points.  

[Sdfgh]

17 hours ago, Blackduck59 said:

Tipping is often included in the fare in places where that is not part of the culture, they don't have the option to "remove" them, they are not billed as such. I think you will find that the vast majority of those removing the "Crew Appreciation" are indeed Americans. I know lots of folks in Australia, and tipping is not part of their culture, For those cruises the "Crew Appreciation" is included in their fare and they wouldn't even consider removing it. Even when they sail on cruises that charge "crew appreciation" they would never consider removing them. For them it is part of the fare and should just be included in the fare. I'm afraid "tipping" is very much an American/North American thing born out of the idea of bribing the server to get better service.

I honestly don’t have any hard data on what nationalities are opting out of the tips . In speaking to several European guests on several cruises they expressed to me that they feel tipping is “not called for “ or “ not routine “ for them. I didn’t think it appropriate to ask them anything more specific. Americans and perhaps North Americans are eager to show their appreciation for excellent service that was provided. As far as bribery, my  very close Canadian friends informed me that it was a way of life for them when they lived in Europe. They had to get accustomed to eliminating it when they moved to Toronto.

[UPNYGuy]

1 hour ago, Sdfgh said:

I am just wondering why mid size LNG ships are not being built. The profit in mega ships may be greater, however, there is definitely a market for smaller ships as well. Just like fuel efficient cars come in all sizes and price points.  

Royal Caribbean has been very public about its forthcoming discovery class midsized (suspected) ships. 

 

IF this actually comes to fruition, and Royal does a fleet of these (as is suspected, to replace the vision and radiance class), I could see a bunch of people on here trying them out just to see what they offer. I myself really admit I have nothing against bigger ships. My wife and I will book on 4000 to 5000 passenger vessels, but we do prefer midsize ships. We were just on carnival celebration, but for certain itineraries, we will not go if it is not on a midsize ship.  
 

 

[coolbluegreenseas]

On 9/2/2024 at 4:09 PM, FlaMariner said:

I would cruise on those over HAL if I had the travel budget for those lines..

I have cruised 4 different lines so far: RCL, Celebrity, HAL and Windstar. As far as cost goes, Windstar is not that terribly more expensive than the others. There is so much a la carte on the other three lines that once you add those things in, the final cost is about the same. Also, when Windstar indicates something is all inclusive, it really is. Finally, the passenger to crew ratio is somewhere around 1.5:1 and that is an under appreciated perk. Next time you go to book, run all the costs associated with the trip and you might be surprised.

[stevenr597]

2 hours ago, Sdfgh said:

I am just wondering why mid size LNG ships are not being built. The profit in mega ships may be greater, however, there is definitely a market for smaller ships as well. Just like fuel efficient cars come in all sizes and price points.  

LNG ships do have problems inherent in their operations.  There are very few ports that can refill such ships.  In addition, the energy in LND is less than that of diesel, hence one needs more fuel to go the same distance, which will limit the cruising range.  LNG is more difficult to store on a ship as compared to diesel.

Taking that into account one will probably see ever bigger ships being powered by LNG, while mid sized ships will either be conventional diesel powered or use jet turbines for their power plants. 

[coolbluegreenseas]

So, CCL is not going to invest in the HAL line. What does this mean? Well, HAL will probably remain  a viable entity for the next several years and the current fleet will be refurbished. Also, it will not be terribly surprising if HAL is to inherit smaller ships from the sister lines as the new ships become available. Still, this does sound alot like a slow winding down or possible merge with Princess. Cunard is unique and will probably remain a separate organization until humans stop sailing.

Of course, what the heck do I know?😝

 

[mcrcruiser]

So many opinions ,  our only wish is  for HAL to bring back to San Diego ,once Konningsdam is gne ma Pinnacle class ship . Reason is we and so many other crusing guets like only Pinnacle class ships mow becuuse of all the extra public areas and activities . I was not aware that HAL was charging for steak in the MDR   .Other lines that is not so unless the steak was  ordered from a special restaurant menu 

[HappyInVan]

It is possible that the fear of LNG has been fueled by reports of exploding buildings caused by leaking gas pipes. I've read an industry report that LNG tankers have travelled millions of miles without a single major incident.

 

While LNG has less energy because it is less dense than diesel, the new LNG cruise ships appear to be more efficient than industry standards...

 

“The ship features hybrid technology that enables the ship to achieve a 40% reduction in greenhouse gas emissions, and is projected to achieve an Energy Efficiency Design Index rating approximately 25% better than applicable International Maritime Organization requirements.[4] The Silver Nova is designed to operate emission-free in ports, with 4-megawatt fuel cell system as well as batteries.[5] The fuel cells and batteries are designed to supply enough electricity in port to power the hotel operations when the ship is not using shore power.”

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_Nova

 

While LNG is not available in remote places, the industry has organized refueling options in many regions...

 

https://www.marinelink.com/news/fueling-wrtsil-equip431623

 

As you would expect since the big companies are investing billions in the new ships.

 

IMO, HAL also needs to evaluate hybrid technology for their long itineraries. I was on HX's Roald Amundsen recently. On a bridge visit, the captain took questions. This is a summary of his answers as I understood it.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MS_Roald_Amundsen

 

That the ship RA has 2 diesel generators and 2 battery packs. There is the option of adding 8 more battery packs.

 

From the captain's POV, the main advantage of the stored energy is safety.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Scott_Key_Bridge_collapse

 

He said that on battery power alone, the ship could operate for 25 minutes. That said, there were also fuel efficiencies and reduction in greenhouse gas. When the load on the diesel generators were low, the excess power could be stored in the batteries. To be used when only one diesel engine was being used.

 

So, it is possible at some time in the future HAL could order an 'expedition' ship with hybrid technology. But, they need to hurry because there is a long lead time between the order and delivery. And, don't expect fares to be as low as it is today.

 

[bbodb1]

7 hours ago, sambamama said:

... I want to listen to classical music and get books from a library and order chilled fruit soup and get candied ginger from the yum yum man and see the crew show. But those days are over.

 

Well this certainly caught my interest @sambamama - what the heck is a chilled fruit soup?  Apple?  Grape?  Peach?  Muscadine? 

 

I am curious! 

[3rdGenCunarder]

5 minutes ago, bbodb1 said:

 

Well this certainly caught my interest @sambamama - what the heck is a chilled fruit soup?  Apple?  Grape?  Peach?  Muscadine? 

 

I am curious! 

 

There were quite a few. Rudi's cookbooks include raspberry, sour cherry, mixed berry, banana- coconut. I think I recall blueberry.

 

They were listed for the soup course, but you could order them for dessert, which IMO was a better idea than at the start of a meal.

[bbodb1]

2 hours ago, coolbluegreenseas said:

I have cruised 4 different lines so far: RCL, Celebrity, HAL and Windstar. As far as cost goes, Windstar is not that terribly more expensive than the others. There is so much a la carte on the other three lines that once you add those things in, the final cost is about the same. Also, when Windstar indicates something is all inclusive, it really is. Finally, the passenger to crew ratio is somewhere around 1.5:1 and that is an under appreciated perk. Next time you go to book, run all the costs associated with the trip and you might be surprised.

 

@coolbluegreenseas it looks like you are a few steps further along in the process than we are as one of our goals in cruising was to that cruise line which most appealed to us.  We have previously cruised Carnival and HAL is next up for us but RCL and Celebrity are also likely in the future cruise plans for us if desirable itineraries can be found and the price is attractive.  (In fact, we would consider ANY cruise line in the future if the itinerary and price meets the previous goals).  

 

Would it be fair to say you found RCL and Celebrity more current (more attractive) than HAL?  In other words, if the OP was correct in stating HAL is falling behind, are both RCL and Celebrity pulling ahead?     

[Ken the cruiser]

2 hours ago, stevenr597 said:

LNG ships do have problems inherent in their operations.  There are very few ports that can refill such ships.  In addition, the energy in LND is less than that of diesel, hence one needs more fuel to go the same distance, which will limit the cruising range.  LNG is more difficult to store on a ship as compared to diesel.

Taking that into account one will probably see ever bigger ships being powered by LNG, while mid sized ships will either be conventional diesel powered or use jet turbines for their power plants. 

OTOH Viking has chosen not to go the LNG route. In fact, Hagen, the founder and chairman of Viking, is strongly opposed to it. He said LNG is another word for methane, which he said is 80 times worse than CO2 in terms of global warming.

 

Viking On Course to Hydrogen Fuel Cells - Cruise Industry News | Cruise News

 

[bbodb1]

2 minutes ago, 3rdGenCunarder said:

 

There were quite a few. Rudi's cookbooks include raspberry, sour cherry, mixed berry, banana- coconut. I think I recall blueberry.

 

They were listed for the soup course, but you could order them for dessert, which IMO was a better idea than at the start of a meal.

 

We will definitely look for these on our upcoming HAL cruise - thanks @3rdGenCunarder!