Gratuities and fare structure

Where in that announcement did it say that a person can not request the gratuities be removed once on-board? Adding them into the price for booking is not the same as saying they are non-refundable by request. So this still leaves that issue open.

 

I like it that the gratuities are included. However, if they are refundable by request, then I predict the lines at guest services will unfortunately be longer.

In countries where "service is included" in the price there is nothing to remove, the price is the price. Like most things, if you have a specific complaint that might result in some form of refund but that would be on a case by case basis, be by exception, and at management's discretion. I have never seen a situation where people are queuing to get a service charge back where one hasn't been paid, because there is not to refund. It would be like queuing at the end of a cruise fir a refund because you didn't use the Gym and arguing that it was included in the price so should be refundable.

When an offer includes "free prepaid gratuities" - it''s pretty foolish to think that somewhere it isn't factored into the price. Anyone had any luck getting their free prepaid gratuities refunded on board, I suspect not.

I think the situation you describe won't happen.

Its interesting to me because I know many countries like the Philippines don't tax tip income, and many of the crew members are from those countries. I thought they probably have two lines for income on their paycheck, salary (low) and tip income (probably more than salary). The low salary line is assessed income tax but the tip line is not. Maybe they can continue to do that with a single fare; probably it is broken out "in the background" anyway and it won't hurt the workers by pushing them into higher tax brackets.

I'm all for simplicity in pricing so rolling the gratuity into the quoted price is OK by me.

The two times we've cruised with RCCL from Aus/NZ the drinks prices included gratuities (and the drinks package limit increased accordingly) but daily grats were charged separately.

Now they're including the grats in the fares which is great.

Next step - onboard costs in AUD please? :)

Well said. I'll bet that at the end of the day, service people in the US earn more with tips included than with the "take care of our people" system they use. That system prevents people from being rewarded extra for better service levels than the "do the minimum I can get away with since I get paid the same" personnel. Some of the worst service I have ever received is in those countries - rude, slow and with surly attitudes.

 

Why try harder when you won't get a penny extra for the effort? :rolleyes:

 

Their system is not superior to ours - it is only different.

I think there are examples for and against on both sides. I've had excellent and terrible service in the US as well as in Australia / New Zealand.

In a lot of the Far East there really isn't a tipping culture yet service is probably the best I've experienced anywhere. Yet in India nothing seems to happen without tipping, leaving our hotel in Agra it felt as though we had people we had never seen queuing up to receive there tips - yet the service was nothing particularly specual.

At the end of the day it is just about different countries, different cultures. No tipping in Aus, always has been , always will be, so on cruises out of Aus no tips charged, as it should be, all cruise lines out of Aus are now the same, so that tells you something. One price and one price only, so you know there is nothing else to be tacked on at the end of your booking. In US, tips to be paid as it's their culture, always has been and always will be,that is all they know.

Eg... voting in Aus is compulsory, voting in US is not. So many differences, which is fine, we just need to respect. Sheesh.

We always prepay our gratuities so it doesn't really matter to us, but I am glad they are making tips part of the overall price. This way everyone has to pay them.

I think there are examples for and against on both sides. I've had excellent and terrible service in the US as well as in Australia / New Zealand.

 

In a lot of the Far East there really isn't a tipping culture yet service is probably the best I've experienced anywhere. Yet in India nothing seems to happen without tipping, leaving our hotel in Agra it felt as though we had people we had never seen queuing up to receive there tips - yet the service was nothing particularly specual.

That last bit is what gets me, the constant hints about tips then people you've never seen with their hand out, sometimes literally.

I have no issues paying gratuities when I am in the US and always do, just don't expect or want that culture in my back yard.

You are on an AMERICAN ship. The fact that is is based or cruises in Australia does not make it Australian.

I guess arguments don´t really help in this international problem. Unfortunately simple and pathetic greed is often excused and hidden behind "culture" and a "let´s fight the system" attitude.

"Live and let live" is a motto easy to follow. As long as I am able to go on a cruise and as long as I am on the receiving end on a cruise I say I live pretty good. Not thinking twice about showing some gatitude towards the ones who make this life better.

This drives me nuts, just got back from time in USA and the price you see is not the price you pay.

 

why cannot the ticket price include the tax? i don't need to know how much tax i'm paying when i cannot change it.

 

the ticket price is generally a nice round number

 

 

eg $3

 

then i have to scrabble around for some small change like 13c

 

or 67c etc.

 

why not have a round number including the tax?

Our state governments want to be sure that the amount of the sale is taxed properly--in fact, businesses are prohibited from including tax in the price. Instead the price of the item must be separate from the tax so that the state knows they are receiving the proper amount of tax.

True as some cultures have a culture of fighting.

A couple of things...

Doesn't matter where the ship is sailing from...it is a line based in the US on the US tipping structure. In addition, the ship sails under the flag of Malta, so I'm sure that has an effect on how wages are paid, as well. While Australia pays servers a living wage, that does not happen in the US--the gratuity is needed.

I'm glad to see the gratuities included in the fare to ensure the staff are compensated--when 900 people (one third of the vessel) declines gratuities, it hurts the staff tremendously. I hope that X considers adding this structure to other routes, as well, to ensure staff are adequately paid.

I look at it like this: the staff has worked hard to make sure I enjoy my vacation. I paid a lot for it...but if I can afford to cruise, I can also afford the $13.50/day in gratuities. And, for what it's worth, $13.50/day is cheap by US standards for what you get. Dinner in the MDR is probably worth $100--so a typical US tip for that would be $20. It's a bargain.

Please tip the staff. They have earned it.

You are on an AMERICAN ship. The fact that is is based or cruises in Australia does not make it Australian.unmitigated rubbish

 

I guess arguments don´t really help in this international problem. Unfortunately simple and pathetic greed is often excused and hidden behind "culture" and a "let´s fight the system" attitude. sorry its an international problem now,1st paragraph it was all AMERICAN,

 

"Live and let live" is a motto easy to follow. As long as I am able to go on a cruise and as long as I am on the receiving end on a cruise I say I live pretty good. Not thinking twice about showing some gatitude towards the ones who make this life better.

So why don't you live and let live

As a non tipping culture and with the ships being based in Australian waters, about time.

 

I have no issues paying gratuities when I am in the US and always do, just don't expect or want that culture in my back yard.

Oh don't worry,that culture is in almost everyones back-yard, pocket, face, business

Thankfully we don't have that much oil.

Venezuela and mars I'm taking about.;):)

A couple of things...

 

Doesn't matter where the ship is sailing from...it is a line based in the US on the US tipping structure. In addition, the ship sails under the flag of Malta, so I'm sure that has an effect on how wages are paid, as well. While Australia pays servers a living wage, that does not happen in the US--the gratuity is needed.

 

I'm glad to see the gratuities included in the fare to ensure the staff are compensated--when 900 people (one third of the vessel) declines gratuities, it hurts the staff tremendously. I hope that X considers adding this structure to other routes, as well, to ensure staff are adequately paid.

 

I look at it like this: the staff has worked hard to make sure I enjoy my vacation. I paid a lot for it...but if I can afford to cruise, I can also afford the $13.50/day in gratuities. And, for what it's worth, $13.50/day is cheap by US standards for what you get. Dinner in the MDR is probably worth $100--so a typical US tip for that would be $20. It's a bargain.

 

Please tip the staff. They have earned it.

So I'm starting to get this. A princess ship which is a line based in america sails from china to Australia

All grats are non existant, the fare is in aud, it is still classified as an American ship.

So therefore people should contact the concierge desk and ask to pay grats.

And going by your theory.

MDR.

A $20 tip per diner_

So those people serve say20/25 people a night.So every night they should be creaming 400/500 dollars in tips.On a 10 day cruise,its $4000/$5000 a cruise just in tips.

Yep $80/100,000 a year on 20---10 day cruises just in tips from the mdr.

Now that's the gig, isn't it.

So I'm starting to get this. A princess ship which is a line based in america sails from china to Australia

All grats are non existant, the fare is in aud, it is still classified as an American ship.

So therefore people should contact the concierge desk and ask to pay grats.

 

And going by your theory.

MDR.

A $20 tip per diner_

So those people serve say20/25 people a night.So every night they should be creaming 400/500 dollars in tips.On a 10 day cruise,its $4000/$5000 a cruise just in tips.

Yep $80/100,000 a year on 20---10 day cruises just in tips from the mdr.

 

Now that's the gig, isn't it.

No need to contact the concierge desk to pay gratuities--they can be given in person.

And let's take a closer look at my theory...

The gratuities don't go to just the waiter. They go to the waiter, the people who run the food, the sommelier, and the people who work behind the scenes.

These people work for seven months at a time, away from their families, and their children. Every day they work hard to make each guest feel special and welcome. And by every day, I mean every day for seven months with no day off working 11-12 hours/day across a split shift meaning they never have more than 6-7 hours to sleep at any given time in their bunkbed in a small, windowless room they share with a complete stranger.

Yes, I think anyone willing to do that deserves a good paycheck.

But it isn't $20/day they receive. It's $13.50. And that goes not just to the wait staff but to the cabin attendant, asst. cabin attendant, and others we probably don't know about.

All that wonderful service, and people decline even with the knowledge that this is how these friendly, helpful, hardworking people are paid. People take advantage of the service, bask in the wonderful treatment, and then take money out of the pockets of the staff.

As I said before, if you can afford the cruise, please tip the staff. They depend on it.

Oh don't worry,that culture is in almost everyones back-yard, pocket, face, business

Thankfully we don't have that much oil.

Venezuela and mars I'm taking about.;):)

And if it wasn't for that culture, you would be speaking a different language. Why don't you contribute something to this thread instead of your anti American comments. By the way, name me one country we went into where we took the oil, didn't happen.

Our state governments want to be sure that the amount of the sale is taxed properly--in fact, businesses are prohibited from including tax in the price. Instead the price of the item must be separate from the tax so that the state knows they are receiving the proper amount of tax.

Plus, in most cases, each state, and in turn, each county, sets it's own tax rate, designed to accumulate revenue to cover it's specific operating expenses. In the county I live in, for instance, the tax rate is now 9%, while in one neighboring county it is 9.5%, and another 9.25%.

Because of this, a vendor that has locations in multiple counties would have to print up "custom" menus and price lists for each location. A menu for a restaurant a mile away from another could have different pricing, causing confusion. Good examples are chain restaurants like McDonald's and Starbucks with many locations, often close together. They much prefer an item to have the same listed price everywhere - a Big Mac is $3.99 plus tax at every store instead of $4.35 at one, $4.36 at another, and $4.38 at yet another store in my area if taxes were included in the price. This is especially true in heavily populated areas along county borders. In my state alone the lowest tax rate on purchased goods is 7.5% and the highest is 10%, making that same Big Mac $4.29 in one city, and $4.40 in another.

So why don't you live and let live

Absolutely laughable considering your prior insulting post regarding Americans (since removed).

Plus, in most cases, each state, and in turn, each county, sets it's own tax rate, designed to accumulate revenue to cover it's specific operating expenses. In the county I live in, for instance, the tax rate is now 9%, while in one neighboring county it is 9.5%, and another 9.25%.

 

Because of this, a vendor that has locations in multiple counties would have to print up "custom" menus and price lists for each location. A menu for a restaurant a mile away from another could have different pricing, causing confusion. Good examples are chain restaurants like McDonald's and Starbucks with many locations, often close together. They much prefer an item to have the same listed price everywhere - a Big Mac is $3.99 plus tax at every store instead of $4.35 at one, $4.36 at another, and $4.38 at yet another store in my area if taxes were included in the price. This is especially true in heavily populated areas along county borders. In my state alone the lowest tax rate on purchased goods is 7.5% and the highest is 10%, making that same Big Mac $4.29 in one city, and $4.40 in another.

This is explained very well. Additionally, depending upon how you elect to treat state and local sales tax paid on your tax returns, it makes a difference to know what you have paid in sales tax.

In countries where "service is included" in the price there is nothing to remove, the price is the price. Like most things, if you have a specific complaint that might result in some form of refund but that would be on a case by case basis, be by exception, and at management's discretion. I have never seen a situation where people are queuing to get a service charge back where one hasn't been paid, because there is not to refund. It would be like queuing at the end of a cruise fir a refund because you didn't use the Gym and arguing that it was included in the price so should be refundable.

 

When an offer includes "free prepaid gratuities" - it''s pretty foolish to think that somewhere it isn't factored into the price. Anyone had any luck getting their free prepaid gratuities refunded on board, I suspect not.

 

I think the situation you describe won't happen.

A big assumption is being made that the gratuities, added onto the booking price, will remain un-refundable. When the policy is put into affect, then I will be curious to see what happens. The announcement is not the same a full blown policy and the details are somewhat vague. I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. Merely pointing out that there is always a leap to conclusion without all the facts and that often winds up leading to disappointment and failed expectations.

A big assumption is being made that the gratuities, added onto the booking price, will remain un-refundable. When the policy is put into affect, then I will be curious to see what happens. The announcement is not the same a full blown policy and the details are somewhat vague. I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. Merely pointing out that there is always a leap to conclusion without all the facts and that often winds up leading to disappointment and failed expectations.

If Celebrity are going to advertise a cruise at price X which is fully inclusive and not subject to any additional charges (i.e gratuities) why would Celebrity then allow you to have that money back?

If Celebrity are going to advertise a cruise at price X which is fully inclusive and not subject to any additional charges (i.e gratuities) why would Celebrity then allow you to have that money back?

Because they are still calling it a gratuity, which is traditionally optional and has different tax consequences to the recipient. This is similar to pre-charging gratuities to persons traveling select dining (since discontinued). A person had no choice but to prepay, but then could get it refunded on board.

I really don't need a reason why, all I am saying is that an assumption is being made and it may not be true.

Because they are still calling it a gratuity, which is traditionally optional and has different tax consequences to the recipient. This is similar to pre-charging gratuities to persons traveling select dining (since discontinued). A person had no choice but to prepay, but then could get it refunded on board.

I really don't need a reason why, all I am saying is that an assumption is being made and it may not be true.

What we don't know is if they will continue to say gratuities included in your fare on these cruises or if the terminology will change and they will say "no gratuities/tipping necessary", which would mean that any additional amount is not refundable.

I don't see them saying that "gratuities are included" as a special perk, but more like "a stateroom is included", "meals are included", or "transportation from port to port" is included. Under the new plan, it appears that gratuities will simply be part of the cost of the cruise, no different than all other "included" aspects of a cruise, all which have no refundable aspects to them.

And if they decide to go with this fleet wide 100% of the time, I'm perfectly fine with it as long as we aren't charged taxes and fees on the additional dollars it will now cost to buy a cruise.

I don't see them saying that "gratuities are included" as a special perk, but more like "a stateroom is included", "meals are included", or "transportation from port to port" is included. Under the new plan, it appears that gratuities will simply be part of the cost of the cruise, no different than all other "included" aspects of a cruise, all which have no refundable aspects to them.

 

And if they decide to go with this fleet wide 100% of the time, I'm perfectly fine with it as long as we aren't charged taxes and fees on the additional dollars it will now cost to buy a cruise.

I also don't have an issue with them going fleet wide and if it is charged taxes, it will be a minimal amount, so it won't impact me.