Endless onboard Promotion/Sales and Marketing !

Happy Thanksgiving TeeRick!

Sad to say, this indeed did happen. I was not the only guest who came to the table to address the issue, but I was the most assertive guest. I suspect the advanced age of the guests made the staff member think a sale could be made - rather like telemarketers preying on seniors.

This was half way through a 2 week cruise and I presume sales were not going well.

There are situations when what happens is not inside the "bell curve" of typical - this staff member was well outside the normal graciousness of Celebrity staff.

This is why I used my personal time to go up the food chain to the manager on deck at the time, to ensure this staff member was addressed.

A more extreme example of the subject matter of this thread.

What the OP says is true. But this kind of thing has been going on for many years (its just seems worse in recent years). But, as a forty year active cruiser we just deal with it like a fly on the wall. Just ignore it! We never buy photos, have no interest in Bingo, seldom by anything in the shops, and ignore most onboard activities that have a price. As to drink packages, we get what we want as a booking promo....and only upgrade if it suits us.

When it comes to excursions, there is no secret that cruise line excursions (from all the mass market lines) are overpriced, overcrowded, often take you to shops that are either owned by the tour company or who provide generous kick-backs, etc. And yet, folks keep booking these tours, paying the big bucks, and than whining about it after the tour and cruise. Think about it, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. I think we have booked 3 cruise line excursions in over 1000 days of cruising (6 continents) and that was only because there was no other option. Personally, I now think that folks who book cruise line excursions get exactly what they deserve. It it is the only option (after considering DIY, public transit, rental cars, trains, private tours, etc) than perhaps its the way to go. But,I suspect the OP will eventually book another cruise on some line and again book cruise line excursions. And then we will have another CC post complaining about a cruise line excursion.

Hank

What the OP says is true. But this kind of thing has been going on for many years (its just seems worse in recent years). But, as a forty year active cruiser we just deal with it like a fly on the wall. Just ignore it! We never buy photos, have no interest in Bingo, seldom by anything in the shops, and ignore most onboard activities that have a price. As to drink packages, we get what we want as a booking promo....and only upgrade if it suits us.

 

When it comes to excursions, there is no secret that cruise line excursions (from all the mass market lines) are overpriced, overcrowded, often take you to shops that are either owned by the tour company or who provide generous kick-backs, etc. And yet, folks keep booking these tours, paying the big bucks, and than whining about it after the tour and cruise. Think about it, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. I think we have booked 3 cruise line excursions in over 1000 days of cruising (6 continents) and that was only because there was no other option. Personally, I now think that folks who book cruise line excursions get exactly what they deserve. It it is the only option (after considering DIY, public transit, rental cars, trains, private tours, etc) than perhaps its the way to go. But,I suspect the OP will eventually book another cruise on some line and again book cruise line excursions. And then we will have another CC post complaining about a cruise line excursion.

 

Hank

Thankfully I can say that I haven't experienced anything near what the what the OP posted about on our current Equinox cruise (we get of on Sat).

Your view of those that take cruise line excursions seems a little harsh IMO. From what I've seen, most of those that complain loudest about them on CC are those that are venomently opposed to them.

There are many reasons for doing them beyond it being the only option. My DW would be a perfect example. Unlike myself she is not well travelled and would not be comfortable arranging or own tours in a country where she doesn't know the native language. Hopefully that will change in the future, but if it doesn't, so be it.

For the four excursions we did this cruise, there is no way we would have saved even 10% of the cost of the cruise, let alone the total cost of our trip. That in my mind is a small price to pay so that she has nothing but fond memories of our 15th anniversary celebration.

Just my 2 cents.

Peace

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The issue of cruise line excursions is a terrific topic of its own, and there are plenty of folks with strong feelings (both ways) with a majority falling somewhere in between. Hang around a shore excursion office or Guest Relations after a port day and you will usually hear complaints. Not sure I was being harsh on those who book excursions ("they get what they deserve") as much as on the actual excursions. When we started cruising in the 70s, excursions were reasonably priced....but not much different from the tours of today. My post is meant to make the point that those who take cruise line excursions should do so with open eyes and accept what they get. We do understand that not everyone is comfortable going off on their own or even booking a private excursion (this is often done right here on CC in the Roll Call threads) but find it amusing when some of those folks complain about being crammed into a bus with 60 other souls, having to spend a lot of time waiting for the slowest person, being dragged into commercial shops/factories which takes valuable port time away from sightseeing, etc. This is all the reality of any large group tour.

The pricing has gotten out of hand on many cruise line excursions, partially because at least 3 different groups must profit (the tour provider, the shore excursion contractors, and the cruise lines). And the cruise lines now base their business plans on maximizing onboard revenues, so a tour worth $30 will quickly become a $60 or even more expensive journey. I will give you two examples, On a recent HAL cruise we were in a tiny town (about 2 streets) of Greenland...and HAL had a 3 hour walking tour for $60. Assuming 20 on a group that generates $1200 for 1 guide to walk with folks for about 3 hours in a town that anyone could easily walk (and cover every street) in 2 hours for free :). As far as we know, that excursion was canceled for lack of bookings (there were mostly very well travelers on that cruise who knew better). And then there is the cruise line independent transfer from Civitavecchia to Rome which now often costs $100-$120 a person (for a bus ride). Consider that taking the train will cost about $14 (and the BIRG ticket includes all days use of Rome's metro and buses). Add another few dollars for a paid shuttle bus (from the port bus stop to the train station) and one can save over $80 (per person) and probably get to Rome before the bus. And the person using that bus will likely need to pay for some public transportation in Rome...while the folks that took the train have that included in that BIRG ticket.

Consider that the mark-up on that bus tour is several hundred percent.

Last summer we spent 2 days in St Petersburg...where nearly everyone takes tours (for several reasons including the need of a group visa). There are multiple excellent local tour companies...all that provide small group tours that are far superior to cruise line excursions....and they do it for significantly less money. And now, we have noticed that many of the high volume cruise agencies (which is how we book our cruises) are all offering shore tours (which you book in advance through your cruise agency) at far less cost then the cruise lines....and often in much smaller groups.

The competition for shore excursions is a pretty new thing....but when the cruise lines get greedy with their pricing.....some entraprenaur will take advantage and offer alternatives. We just joined a private excursion for Busan, Korea.....and our cost for small van sized groups is a fraction of similar tours offered by our cruise line. Private tours are a great option for those not wanting to have a DIY day...

Hank

The issue of cruise line excursions is a terrific topic of its own, and there are plenty of folks with strong feelings (both ways) with a majority falling somewhere in between. Hang around a shore excursion office or Guest Relations after a port day and you will usually hear complaints. Not sure I was being harsh on those who book excursions ("they get what they deserve") as much as on the actual excursions. When we started cruising in the 70s, excursions were reasonably priced....but not much different from the tours of today. My post is meant to make the point that those who take cruise line excursions should do so with open eyes and accept what they get. We do understand that not everyone is comfortable going off on their own or even booking a private excursion (this is often done right here on CC in the Roll Call threads) but find it amusing when some of those folks complain about being crammed into a bus with 60 other souls, having to spend a lot of time waiting for the slowest person, being dragged into commercial shops/factories which takes valuable port time away from sightseeing, etc. This is all the reality of any large group tour.

 

The pricing has gotten out of hand on many cruise line excursions, partially because at least 3 different groups must profit (the tour provider, the shore excursion contractors, and the cruise lines). And the cruise lines now base their business plans on maximizing onboard revenues, so a tour worth $30 will quickly become a $60 or even more expensive journey. I will give you two examples, On a recent HAL cruise we were in a tiny town (about 2 streets) of Greenland...and HAL had a 3 hour walking tour for $60. Assuming 20 on a group that generates $1200 for 1 guide to walk with folks for about 3 hours in a town that anyone could easily walk (and cover every street) in 2 hours for free :). As far as we know, that excursion was canceled for lack of bookings (there were mostly very well travelers on that cruise who knew better). And then there is the cruise line independent transfer from Civitavecchia to Rome which now often costs $100-$120 a person (for a bus ride). Consider that taking the train will cost about $14 (and the BIRG ticket includes all days use of Rome's metro and buses). Add another few dollars for a paid shuttle bus (from the port bus stop to the train station) and one can save over $80 (per person) and probably get to Rome before the bus. And the person using that bus will likely need to pay for some public transportation in Rome...while the folks that took the train have that included in that BIRG ticket.

Consider that the mark-up on that bus tour is several hundred percent.

 

Last summer we spent 2 days in St Petersburg...where nearly everyone takes tours (for several reasons including the need of a group visa). There are multiple excellent local tour companies...all that provide small group tours that are far superior to cruise line excursions....and they do it for significantly less money. And now, we have noticed that many of the high volume cruise agencies (which is how we book our cruises) are all offering shore tours (which you book in advance through your cruise agency) at far less cost then the cruise lines....and often in much smaller groups.

 

The competition for shore excursions is a pretty new thing....but when the cruise lines get greedy with their pricing.....some entraprenaur will take advantage and offer alternatives. We just joined a private excursion for Busan, Korea.....and our cost for small van sized groups is a fraction of similar tours offered by our cruise line. Private tours are a great option for those not wanting to have a DIY day...

 

Hank

Nice hypothetical scenarios, but I'll counter with some real life examples.

First, people will complain about anything and everything. So unless you are on a specific for you have no way of telling just how legit a complaint is or isn't. Our cabin neighbour actually said she doesn't think there is any month where she's be happy with the heat in the Caribbean which begs the question, why on earth would she have booked or at least agreed to go on this cruise. So is it the cruise line's fault that we've had 85F+ temps and clear skies for 8 days straight.

Second, if I'm paying $60 for a 3hr walking tour with a guide, I sure as heck expect to get more than what I'd get from walking around aimlessly by myself for 2hrs. Not really a fair apple to apple comparison. For the record, there were never more than 20 people on the bus for any of the 4 excursions we did. While Im not going to try and claim that my experience is the norm, neither can you claim yours is. Heck there's even a thread on CC about the nightmares some have endured when they joined in on one of these privately organized tours including one where the organizer changed stops and expected others to not say anything and a pay.

Third, your hypothetical example about a transfer to Rome can very easily get flipped on you. Both my wife and I are of Italian heritage and speak fluent Italian so she was actually comfortable doing Italy on our own. On our honeymoon cruise in Oct. 2002 we happened to dock in Civitavecchia on a Friday when the transit unions decided to strike. Italian unions are notorious for this. What should have been a cheap train ride to Rome turned into cabbies demanding $200 USD one way. Had we done the ship's for we would have still gotten to Rome for a lot less then what the cabbies were trying to extort, instead we enjoyed a nice day by the sea.

Lastly not sure how you can claim that when you say a person "got what they deserved" that that statement isn't aimed at the person but at the inanimate item they purchased. After all it wasn't your excursion that picked the person. SHM.

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My 2 cents on Shore Excursions. I prefer to arrange my own private excursions in advance if possible. They are usually much less crowded, overall better and typically less expensive. It is fun to arrange them with folks on your CC roll call and you make friends for the remainder of the cruise and beyond.

I would consider taking a ship excursion in a few situations. 1) I have quite a lot of on board credit that cruise so I can use it for ship excursions. 2) I am in a tender port and ship excursions get priority. 3) There is some known risk factor that day returning on time to the ship- such as traffic blocks due to a local event, parade, etc. 4) In rare cases there is a better excursion offered by the ship vs locally.

I think it is more risky to walk off the ship and sign up with one of the local excursion hawkers just beyond the gates of any given port. You have no idea what you are getting, safety might be a factor. There is no online review or visibility. They have no traceable reputation so no pressure to get you back on time. The exception here might be a local taxi which is well regulated in many ports.

Happy Thanksgiving TeeRick!

 

Sad to say, this indeed did happen. I was not the only guest who came to the table to address the issue, but I was the most assertive guest. I suspect the advanced age of the guests made the staff member think a sale could be made - rather like telemarketers preying on seniors.

 

This was half way through a 2 week cruise and I presume sales were not going well.

 

There are situations when what happens is not inside the "bell curve" of typical - this staff member was well outside the normal graciousness of Celebrity staff.

 

This is why I used my personal time to go up the food chain to the manager on deck at the time, to ensure this staff member was addressed.

 

A more extreme example of the subject matter of this thread.

Thanks for the well wishes. Sorry to question this story but I have not seen crew members being as pushy as you describe in my cruising experience. You did the right thing by helping the elderly couple!

Nice hypothetical scenarios, but I'll counter with some real life examples.

 

First, people will complain about anything and everything. So unless you are on a specific for you have no way of telling just how legit a complaint is or isn't. Our cabin neighbour actually said she doesn't think there is any month where she's be happy with the heat in the Caribbean which begs the question, why on earth would she have booked or at least agreed to go on this cruise. So is it the cruise line's fault that we've had 85F+ temps and clear skies for 8 days straight.

 

Second, if I'm paying $60 for a 3hr walking tour with a guide, I sure as heck expect to get more than what I'd get from walking around aimlessly by myself for 2hrs. Not really a fair apple to apple comparison. For the record, there were never more than 20 people on the bus for any of the 4 excursions we did. While Im not going to try and claim that my experience is the norm, neither can you claim yours is. Heck there's even a thread on CC about the nightmares some have endured when they joined in on one of these privately organized tours including one where the organizer changed stops and expected others to not say anything and a pay.

 

Third, your hypothetical example about a transfer to Rome can very easily get flipped on you. Both my wife and I are of Italian heritage and speak fluent Italian so she was actually comfortable doing Italy on our own. On our honeymoon cruise in Oct. 2002 we happened to dock in Civitavecchia on a Friday when the transit unions decided to strike. Italian unions are notorious for this. What should have been a cheap train ride to Rome turned into cabbies demanding $200 USD one way. Had we done the ship's for we would have still gotten to Rome for a lot less then what the cabbies were trying to extort, instead we enjoyed a nice day by the sea.

 

Lastly not sure how you can claim that when you say a person "got what they deserved" that that statement isn't aimed at the person but at the inanimate item they purchased. After all it wasn't your excursion that picked the person. SHM.

 

 

 

 

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Not sure what you think was "hypothetical" about what Hank posted. Nothing hypothetical there at all, all real life examples. Did you miss those?

As he said, and I concur, somehere in the middle lies the truth.

When you say "on the 4 excursions you did" there were never more than 20 people, is that your entire excrursion experience? We've done a lot more than that and virtually never do ship tours. Never had less than 20 people and rarely seen that unless it was a "VIP tour" (or however they are marketing them) and total nosebleed prices for those.

We do tours where there is some question re: return. Examples: Egypt, some of the Moroccan ports, far-flung ports in Asia. In virtually every other case we do it on our own with first choice a car rental, second choice a privately arranged group tour and third choice a private tour. I would say overall satisfaction with doing it this way is probably 85-90% (somewhere in the neighborhood of 300 port calls) while satisfaction (all things considered, especailly price) is in the 50-60% range for ship tours.

Everytone, however, has different comfort levels. If you would not be comfortable docking in Livorno and driving across the country to Bologna for a day trip, you wouldn't be happy with us. Or last week, in Punta Delgada ahead of 6 sea days until the next port, 2 hours from the dock in a rental car having lunch. One has to be careful not to exceed their level of comfort...since it makes a much more relaxing time that way!

If we wanted sales promotions we go to a shopping mall . When we buy a cruise we want the ambiance & relaxation of the cruise :D

The push to sell has increased substantially over the last several years with Celebrity & RCCL voyages . .We prefer to sail Holland America these days ;because HAL dies not push these selling methods:D

The worst is Carnival. (I know, right? We succumbed to an absolutely ridiculous last minute rate and bit the bullet and jumped on board.) Anyway, while the cruise was actually quite lovely, the constant announcements felt like torture. Three times a day there would be the tell tale sound over the loud speaker that an announcement was about to occur. Then the cruise director comes on and basically reads from that day's 'daily' about all the EXCITING activities that were coming up. And yes, most of the activities were basically sales promotions. It got to where our group would joke about how will we EVER know what is going on if we didn't have our dear cruise director harping on it every 3 hours! Oh wait, everything she is saying is written write on the schedules in our pockets. Sigh!

If we wanted sales promotions we go to a shopping mall . When we buy a cruise we want the ambiance & relaxation of the cruise :D

 

The push to sell has increased substantially over the last several years with Celebrity & RCCL voyages . .We prefer to sail Holland America these days ;because HAL dies not push these selling methods:D

Really? So lets see, on our most recent HAL cruise they were always promoting "Jackpot Bingo" and had a table staffed most of the day...for just selling Bingo Cards. And then there was the Art Auctions, exercise classes (with a fee), wine tastings promoted by our waiters (some with a pretty big fee), the usual clothing sales (every sea day), etc. etc. On most other lines there are a lot more free activities then we now find on HAL. In fact, on our Rotterdam cruise the CD had only 1 staffer (his assistant) although somebody said he had 1/2 of another crew member. Somebody complained that the only real activity on HAL is trivia.

Hank

If we wanted sales promotions we go to a shopping mall . When we buy a cruise we want the ambiance & relaxation of the cruise :D

 

The push to sell has increased substantially over the last several years with Celebrity & RCCL voyages . .We prefer to sail Holland America these days ;because HAL dies not push these selling methods:D

We feel the heavy handed hawking and endless sales pitches, including having ship Captains pitch jewelry shop raffles significantly cheapen the experience. More like a flea market than an expensive luxury vacation. Very crass business model...sad for the crew who have to do it, and worse for the passengers! Used to be just at the spa but now pervasive...we just ignore and move on

On our cruise on the Equinox last June, our first port was cancelled due to weather. They had to come up with a new daily to include additional activities. Just about every activity that was added was a sales pitch thing. The only thing that got added after the fact was a glass show. Was hoping for better activities the next day (an actual sea day) and it seemed to be pretty much the same stuff. Would have liked to see more "social" activities (different trivias, etc).