Value--Oceania and HAL

And I know that Oceania is considered to be on the rung above that occupied by Holland America, Princess and Celebrity. But sticking with just Holland America, the reason for the question is that there seems to be a substantial per night pricing difference between the two lines.

Having sailed neither line, I sense that Oceania has better food, has the country club atmosphere which does not affect pricing but seems to be an Oceania selling point, and perhaps has a small overall edge in itineraries with even fewer sea days. (And I see for some that the smoking or no-smoking policies of the two lines do matter.)

It appears that Holland America offers comparable ships and bigger cabins. And yet Oceania's pricing roughly speaking seems about 30-40 percent higher per night.

For those of you who love Oceania and have sailed Holland America, or for anyone else with an opinion on this subject, why the relatively large price difference?

For those of you who love Oceania and have sailed Holland America, or for anyone else with an opinion on this subject, why the relatively large price difference?

I think mostly because they can get away with it.

Oceania has little real competition and a very loyal following (for a good reason); they are in a niche that is not really occupied by any other cruise line , although Azamara is trying. With their small ships, casual country club atmosphere, no smoking policy, great food and itineraries they do not compete directly with too many lines/ships. The luxury lines are a separate class and HAL is more in competition with Cunard, Celebrity, Princess, etc. Even the smaller cabin size is now a non issue with Marina as an option.

Personally I do not care for the much more formal atmosphere (and dress code) of HAL, although I would sail with them for a very unique itinerary, not offered by others.

If Oceania did not sell well, they would have to lower their prices closer to HAL and others.

JMO.

That's a very simple but terribly insightful answer--Oceania can charge materially more per night because, given its special market niche, it can.

I just happened to attend a presentation on Oceania the other night. Let's see what I remember of the differences - I've sailed two of HALs and booked on a 3rd.

Oceania have smaller ships. 600 pax with approx. 400 crew. HAL is about 1200 pax.

Oceania says they can get into ports that lots of other lines cannot because of the size. So less people, the price goes up. Cinque de terra (SP?) they can get into and others cannot.

Oceania pricing right now includes AIR and taxes. Our Expedia Cruise centre also includes gratuities in some of the Oceania sailings! No additional charges for specialty restaurants, which HAL does. Now I thought Oceania's prices includes wine with dinner (but that may be my memory out of whack, that may be Uniworld cruises I'm thinking of - this should be verified). Oceania includes transport "into ports" if they cannot dock right in the city. I am also thinking Oceania includes excursions - but again, that may be Uniworld I'm thinking. Bottled water included in Oceania in your room.

The example of their level of service is, in the Lido style restaurant - going thru and building your own breakfast tray, then at the end of the line, there will be wait service to take your trays and find you a table.

They also say there is no wait - no boxed in times for dining. Because the # of pax is small, you can eat pretty much anytime you want.

I went home last night, compared a 24 night magic of med with HAL with a back 2 back in med (similar itinerary) for 22 nights in med and Oceania is almost the same price if you remove one flight because back 2 back they remove the air in the 2nd leg. I was quite impressed, and am quite leaning toward trying Oceania for the med in the next year or so.

Hope that helps. I highly recommend you check them out, attend a presentation if one is held in your city.

SP

Oceania does not include wine with dinner or excursions.

They do have transport in to town for a fee it is NOT included

NO trays in the TERRACE (buffet) but yes the staff will carry your plate to your table & get you drinks

Lyn

If you are a TA maybe you should take notes at the next presentation ;)

I am still laughing SweetP about your written line, "But that may be my memory out of whack."

It takes constant work to hold all the details of multiple lines in your head. And as soon as you have it straight someone makes a change, or worse several change over a couple of months.

In my opinion, HAL and O are like apples and oranges; each has a great taste and yet some people prefer one over the other. I like HAL for the larger suites, the Neptune lounge, the thermal suite. O is my favorite for the anytine dining that actually is anytime (according to my preference), the specialty restaurants that don't cost extra, butlers, no formal nites.

When itinerary is a consideration, O is able to dock at more ports because they are smaller. I have been on both and have always loved both. I guess it is like having children, each is your favorite for a different reason.

K

Reggiefan - what is your value equation? I think it’s helpful when choosing a cruise line to know what’s important to you & then find the best product at a price that you’re willing to pay. Only you know your priorities, preferences & spending limits!

We are HAL cruisers who have recently added Oceania to our BFF list. For us, a cruise is a hotel that takes us to exciting destinations. We cruise primarily for itinerary & ports. HAL is a logical choice as they offer some well-planned itineraries all over the world. We prefer small to mid-sized ships but the ship is not our destination. That’s not to say we don’t care about the on-board product. Quite the contrary. Food, service & enrichment matter very much to us. In recent years, we’ve noticed some changes in HAL that prompted us to take a peek at other cruise lines for comparison.

Enter Oceania & Azamara. We decided to do test cruises on both so we could form our own impressions, both compared to each other & to our old pal HAL. We chose 14-nite transAtlantic cruises where our $ investment would be low & we’d have lotsa sea days to experience the on-board product. We’ve now returned from both test cruises. On the things that matter most to us, Oceania was superior to HAL. And yes we paid more per diem, but we considered it fair trade for added value. We also enjoyed Azamara but less so. Quite frankly, HAL stood up quite well under the scrutiny of that comparison.

If you’re interested in more details, CC has published both my reviews (Azamara Journey & Oceania Regatta) here:

http://www.cruisecritic.com/memberreviews/getreviews.cfm?action=members&MemberName=MightyQuinn

We are in a class by ourselves in that we don't fly any longer. We are perfectly happy to drive or take an hour flight to FLL to cruise to the Caribbean. The ship is our destination. Basically we don't care where it goes because there have been times my husband has not stepped foot on land!!!

However, we do have priorities: no more than 2000 passengers and none of the larger Celebrity ships, no matter how beautiful I hear they are. Our favorites, in no particular order, are Regent, Celebrity, HAL and Oceania. Now comes price and accommodations: HAL beats every one of them with the size of their suites. And the bedding is fabulous. Food is subjective so I won't address it. (Some one here could eat steak every night!!:rolleyes:)

As long as I'm on one of the 4, I'm happy.

We have sailed Oceania twice and HAL about ten times. We choose Oceania for the port intensive itinerary and the ease of getting on and off ships with only 650 or so passengers vs thousands We like the informal atmosphere of Oceania, the lack of kids, and the lack of crowds. We also love the food. When we cruise the Caribbean, we usually choose HAL (although we are Celebrity and Royal Caribbean fans as well). These are itineraries where the ship is the destination and we love to luxuriate in large suites with great balconies without breaking the bank. We also enjoy the shows. If all things were equal, I would always choose Oceania over HAL, but since the pricing is vastly different, we save Oceania for the really special occasions and itineraries.

Never sailed Hal and probably never will unless they change their smoking policies. Tried Celebrity once and chose the wrong stateroom -- downwind from a designated smoking area. chased us off our balcony. Oceania has the most restrictive smoking policy of any major cruise line; Regent is close.

Consider all the other things -- we don't do fixed dining, we don't do formal nights, we don't like big ships or lots of passengers, we don't like paying for alternative dining -- and there aren't a whole lot of choices left. HAL, Princess, Celebrity and all the other mass market lines are not among the choices, nor are any of the luxury lines other than Regent.

Guess that leaves Oceania at almost any price -- although if Regent is within reach of O, we choose that.

HAL and Celebrity have either fixed dining or not. We would not want fixed dining, either. I am a complete PITA regarding smoke (being an ex-smoker) and honestly I have never been bothered on any ship -- other than there was a smoker on O who smoked in their stateroom and you could smell it in the hall. We don't go to casinos so...... But as soon as we get Peter in "working order," we're cruising! I'm anxiously waiting to hear about the suites or B class staterooms on O's Marina!!!

O has the best cuisine we have experience in 34 cruises! Azamara is close and in the large ship category, Celebrity has the closest food compared to Oceania.

My wife and I use to alternate between Holland America and Celebrity, but now that Celebrity changed their smoking policy, (Same as O) and no longer allows smoking in the cabins or on balconies, we have no HAL cruises booked.

HAL has nice ships and some creative itineraries, but when Celebrity changed it's smoking policy, it seems to have pushed that crowd (smokers) over to HAL. We've had other issues with HAL; including A/C problems; their clumsy open seating plan; and cut backs in personnel.

Many non-smoking HAL folks are thinking of switching over to Celebrity or perhaps even Oceania. (see poll below):

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1191384

You can see the Celebrity poll is very different:

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1191429

Enjoy!

Kel:)

MightyQuinn, I just want to comment that I thought your Regatta review was superb. I can't put my finger on it, but for me, you hit almost all the relevant points and conveyed a lot of information. I especially thought that your dining experiences were very informative. (I say this all as a regular Regent cruiser who is sometimes tempted by Oceania.) The only area of personal interest that was missing from the review was comments on ship excursions, but since you didn't use them for the few ports that were part of your itinerary, that's understandable. Thanks.

As you can see I like both.

However if you want a near equivalent experience on HAL you have to chose the Prinsendam -- which is very close to Oceania per person/day.

Small ship (800 passengers) -- excellent service..

For me its easy, I hate kids, no fixed dining, really well prepared food, lower # of passengers, no formal nights, port intensive. I really don't care about the staterooms, cause I'm hardly ever in them. I don't go to shows or to the casino's. I don't want a fancy spa. I'll stick with O. A nice dance floor with country or easy dance music would be nice.

Excellent responses.

And I did want to respond to the value issue raised by MightQuinn because of the time she took to post and because of her painfully fair and exceptionally helpful reviews of her Oceania and Azamara trips.

How am I trying to measure value, which admittedly is truly subjective? Let me tell you what prompted the original post. Because of a special occasion, I am seriously considering a Med cruise in 2011. Because the absence of formal nights and smaller ships sound highly appealing and port-intensive itineraries are a requirement, I have mainly considered Oceania and Azamara. In my case, Oceania gets the edge because its somewhat longer itineraries work better for me than Azamara's shorter 2011 itineraries, though several of AZamara's itineraries are truly port-intensive; because the pricing is comparable; and because Oceania gets better reviews than Azamara.

I quickly looked at several luxury lines, but for me none had itineraries that were more attractive than Oceania's, and the all-inclusive product they offered did not justify their materially higher cost. Again, this is admittedly subjective, but my reasoning was that the premium I place on dining is only so high, I can drink only so much wine and liquor, and I can arrange on my own for many excursions.

Because I am not interested in a large ship and because of my focus on port-intensive itineraries, I simply have not considered a number of other cruise lines. I have considered Holland America, which seems based on what I have read reasonably priced and offers attractive itineraries. Frankly, money aside, the Holland America image seems attractive--smaller ships, good cabins, a bit old-fashioned, solid, conservative, reasonably good food, and again good itineraries. Last year, on a trip to Europe with two adult daughters, had we taken a cruise (we did not), it would have been with Holland America rather than Oceania because of the large difference in costs between those two lines for a family of four. In the future, though not next year, I think I would like to try the Holland America product because I find appealing much of the appeal of that cruise line--though I will add that a real reservation based on what I am reading may be smoking policy.

Quinn, did I answer your question? In short, because next year will be a special occasion, because of itinerary, and because Oceania offers what I am looking for, the choice in 2011 seems easy. Down the road, if I enjoy cruising, look to cruise again, and see comparable itinearies, I was wondering about how much difference exists between Oceania and Holland America, and whether those differences justify the pricing differential between the two lines.

Thanks to all for answering.

Reggiefan, you seem to have a good handle on what’s important to you in a cruise & you’ve done an excellent job of narrowing your choices. I think you’d be very happy with Oceania, especially for your special occasion Med cruise. Their glossy brochures are just a preview of what you can expect on board. Oceania is a cruise line that delivers what they promise. And I think that their new Marina will be a game changer, not only for Oceania but for the industry at large.

I agree with your observations on HAL. We enjoy HAL for many of the same reasons you cited & we’ll continue to sail them as long as they meet our needs. We particularly enjoy their mid-sized S & R class ships & we’ve never sailed their larger Vista class. HAL still is a cruise line of lovely traditions & excellent service. In all our HAL cruises, we’ve only been bothered by smoke once. It was positively awful to be neighbors with a chain smoker who indulged non-stop in their cabin & on their balcony. But otherwise, it’s been a non-issue for us.

Oceania and HAL are different products. We have different expectations when we board the respective ships & we’re happy to have this choice. Based on what you've said here, I think you also would enjoy both. Happy cruising!

However if you want a near equivalent experience on HAL you have to chose the Prinsendam -- which is very close to Oceania per person/day. Small ship (800 passengers) -- excellent service..

I agree completely. Prinsendam is an Oceania-like experience on a HAL-ship. It tends to sail longer, port-intensive itineraries and attracts a passenger demographic very similar to Oceania -- even younger if you can believe that, given HAL's now undeserved reputation as the cruise line of choice for the 80-somethings. The ship itself is absolutely beautiful. Because the kitchen is cooking for far fewer people than on the megaships, the food is of comparable quality to Oceania.

However, we were on the Prinsendam before it went into drydock and had some structural changes -- including adding rooms to the back of the ship. I do not know how that has affected the experience, if at all, but I am glad we got to experience that lovely ship when we did.

Prinsendam sails my dream itinerary: round-trip FLL circumnavigating South America, including several days in Antarctica. The ship is old by today's standards (1988?) but I hope it is still sailing that route when we are retired and can (hopefully) afford to take it.

Having sailed both HAL and Oceania we will NEVER return to HAL until their smoking policy changes. We always buy verandas and our Carib trip with HAL was ruined because we were surrounded by smokers and they (legally) used their veranda constantly to smoke. (Truly, one woman seemed to never leave the veranda, using room service for all 3 meals, and must have been a chain smoker) Even had a guy above pitch his cig overboard just missing me so I was unable to use our veranda after the 1st day. HAL allows smoking in the rooms so we would have to literally hold our breath from the elevator to our cabin. Elevators and hallways smelled of smoke. For us, Oceania is perfect in every way. Clean air, great rooms, best itineraries (often berthing and not tendering as the larger ships must) fantastic crew and not having to pack formal wear.....what is there not to love about Oceania!

Having sailed both HAL and Oceania we will NEVER return to HAL until their smoking policy changes. We always buy verandas and our Carib trip with HAL was ruined because we were surrounded by smokers and they (legally) used their veranda constantly to smoke. (Truly, one woman seemed to never leave the veranda, using room service for all 3 meals, and must have been a chain smoker) Even had a guy above pitch his cig overboard just missing me so I was unable to use our veranda after the 1st day. HAL allows smoking in the rooms so we would have to literally hold our breath from the elevator to our cabin. Elevators and hallways smelled of smoke. For us, Oceania is perfect in every way. Clean air, great rooms, best itineraries (often berthing and not tendering as the larger ships must) fantastic crew and not having to pack formal wear.....what is there not to love about Oceania!

I agree. All it would take to make O perfect is to eliminate smoking completely!:)

Aruba,

If you like the Prinsendam now you should have sailed her when she was the Royal viking Queen. Those were the days.

It crossed my mind to give O a try, but did not actually book until I realized I could no longer hold my breath for HAL to change their smoking policy.

Aruba,

If you like the Prinsendam now you should have sailed her when she was the Royal viking Queen. Those were the days.

When was that? Was that before she was a Seabourne ship?