Rare eroller Posted January 10, 2011 #1 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Apparently Hapag-Lloyd has just announced they will build a new luxury vessel, to be called EUROPA 2 at STX France for a 2013 delivery. Also part of this announcement was that Oceania's INSIGNIA will be long-term chartered to Hapag-Lloyd for at least two years starting in April 2012. She will be renamed COLUMBUS 2. Very interesting news, especially the piece about INSIGNIA. I really thought Oceania was in a position of desperately needing capacity, even having to turn away "guests" in many situations. I guess even Oceania is not immune to this economy, and a two year charter is a sure thing. So now it looks like we will have almost as many operators of the original 8 R-class ships, as ships themselves! It would be interesting to sail on all five cruise lines and see how the experience really differs on these nearly identical ships. Oceania Azamara P&O Princess Hapag-Lloyd Ernie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanandJim Posted January 10, 2011 #2 Share Posted January 10, 2011 I would not be so quick to ascribe this to a lack of passengers wanting to book. As has been described in other threads, Oceania has been having trouble keeping up with the staffiing needs of all four ships. Remember, they've needed to recruit a crew of 800 from a pool of 1200 seagoing employees. Perhaps this is a way of getting through a rough patch, with minimum impact to customers. It may be easier to get the ship back after a charter than to get passengers who feel that they were not well served to give Oceania a second chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toranut97 Posted January 10, 2011 #3 Share Posted January 10, 2011 I am open minded and expect only the best from Oceania -- but I am getting troubled about this talk about Insignia. We have cruised twice on Nautica and it was impeccable. Now we are preparing for our first Insignia voyage next month. First I read the long thread started by Caroldoll which made the sailing on Insignia sound catastrophic. I know it could not have been as bad as all that -- but it *was* troubling. It especially derided the staff and their performance. Strike one. Others in that thread seemed to indicate that the best staff are all getting transferred (kicked upstairs?) to Marina. Leaving --- who???? Strike two. Then I read this, that Insignia is going to be leased to another line. In 2012, mind you. So what happens to those of us on 2011 cruises? Are they "lame duck" cruises with the crew marking time until they can either move to another ship or find another job??? Is this strike three? Of course, I will only be able to tell after we actually take the cruise, and my hopes are still high -- but then I tend towards optimism. But is anyone else feeling any uneasiness at all???? Just my thoughts ---- Donna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TKS Posted January 10, 2011 #4 Share Posted January 10, 2011 We must remember O has the 1260 passenger Marina coming on line next week (YEAH! I can't wait! We're on the Maiden Voyage.), and the 1260 passenger Riviera coming on line in April, 2012. At that point O will have more than doubled it's passenger capacity. As S&J state, this lease may just be a way to work through the transition, as more and more people learn about O's quality and book cruises. I wouldn't worry about the "lame duck" effect. There will be a place for all the employees on Insignia, plus more, on Riviera when it comes on line. If anything, it should improve the service level, as O will be demanding it's employees be ready to serve on the "newest and best" ship in their stable. Cheers, Kay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tropicalkerry2002 Posted January 10, 2011 #5 Share Posted January 10, 2011 We're not on Insignia till the Nov transatlantic, and I too, am a bit concerned. We've been on Regatta and Nautica, and could find no fault. This TA will be our longest cruise yet, with several consecutive sea days, when passengers really count on a great cruise ship/staff experience. I was surprised to read of O leasing a ship to another line, and rather surprised Stan and Jim, to read that you think it may be due to inability to recruit new staff. I may have mistakenly assumed that there were lots of people who would relish the thought of working on a cruise ship. I wish I'd thought of it 30 years ago! I DO like to think it will still be a much better cruise experience than what I hear about other lines...but O is the only line I have ever been on, and I am spoiled! Marian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kruizefan Posted January 10, 2011 #6 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Apparently Hapag-Lloyd has just announced they will build a new luxury vessel, to be called EUROPA 2 at STX France for a 2013 delivery.... Ernie, Hapag-Lloyd will not build this ship but charter it from a so far unknown owner! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare LHT28 Posted January 10, 2011 #7 Share Posted January 10, 2011 http://www.cruise-community.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=4713&catid=910&Itemid=69 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare eroller Posted January 10, 2011 Author #8 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Ernie, Hapag-Lloyd will not build this ship but charter it from a so far unknown owner! Yes this is true. I suppose with a 12 year charter it's likely they will end up owning the ship. This arrangement is interesting, and I'm rather certain it all has to do with the financing for the new vessel. Ernie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sldispatcher Posted January 10, 2011 #9 Share Posted January 10, 2011 I think it is smart move. The natural attraction will be to the newer ships....but Nautica and Regatta will have die hard fans...and rightfully so. I'm a big fan of the R/S class ships on Holland...far better than the Vista behemoths. Of course, in that instance, the rooms / bathrooms on HAL are BIGGER on the smaller ships. Keep capacity controlled..raise funds..keep people happy. Cruise on, Oceania! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jancruz Posted January 10, 2011 #10 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Yes this is true. I suppose with a 12 year charter it's likely they will end up owning the ship. This arrangement is interesting, and I'm rather certain it all has to do with the financing for the new vessel. Ernie First of all it is a 2 year charter and secondly I think it is a brilliant move on Oceanias part with two new ships coming on line, I bet they always intended to do something like this.. IMHO Jancruz1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulchili Posted January 10, 2011 #11 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Then I read this, that Insignia is going to be leased to another line. In 2012, mind you. So what happens to those of us on 2011 cruises? Are they "lame duck" cruises with the crew marking time until they can either move to another ship or find another job??? Is this strike three? Donna As others have pointed out - the staff from Insignia will most likely go to the new Riviera. After all, O will need a lot of people and this staff is already trained for Oceania - thus they are not likely to be "unhappy" or "worried about their future." HL will likely have to hire their own staff for the ship as their passengers are predominantly German speaking and thus will need a staff that speaks German (I don't think too many of current Insignia staff speak German). The timing of this lease is perfect for the introduction of Riviera. It all make perfect sense to me - smart move for Oceania. They will have 2 R ships and 2 larger ships - should be able to fill these easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesm Posted January 10, 2011 #12 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Most cruiselines with newbuilds look for ways to "farm out" the older ships - it certainly isn't unique to O. Look what Celebrity has done with its smaller ships. And even Cunard sold the QE2. It has everything to do with being business savvy as Jancruz points out. And, speaking as one who was onboard Insignia for the 12/21 sailing, I am clueless as to what the creator of that thread was talking about. It was a terrific cruise with the same high quality of service that all of us have come to expect. Yes there were obvious changes in staffing - you cannot bring a ship like Marina online with an entirely new crew. However, we never felt as if this had a palpable negative impact on our recent experience aboard Insignia. I would sail Insignia every week - if I could only win the lotto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare eroller Posted January 10, 2011 Author #13 Share Posted January 10, 2011 First of all it is a 2 year charter and secondly I think it is a brilliant move on Oceanias part with two new ships coming on line, I bet they always intended to do something like this..IMHO Jancruz1 My comment was not in reference to the Oceania charter. It was in reference to Hapag-Lloyd's new build, which is also a long term charter from an unspecified owner but for 12 years. Back to Oceania, I don't think they always intended to charter a ship. They are not in the ship charter business, and I don't think you would find the desire for a charter in their long term business plan. When executives approve such a large capital expenditure such as a new building program, it's usually because demand has stripped capacity. Obviously the demand for Oceania did strip capacity, and I imagine the business plan called for a five ship fleet to meet demand. Of course a lot has changed with the economy since the order was placed for MARINA. Based on those changes I would agree a long term charter is a smart move. It's guaranteed income. Hopefully Oceania will get back to a point where they can sustain a five ship fleet without the need for a charter. Ernie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erica@cruisecritic Posted January 10, 2011 #14 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Just wanted to jump in here and say that I spoke with Tim Rubacky, PR for Oceania Cruises. He says that there are always parties out there looking to charter ships and that Hapag-Lloyd's offer worked nicely -- both because the charter would start at the end of Insignia's published schedule (so no passengers to displace) and it would coincide with the launch of Riviera. He notes that while the line has always been very disciplined in terms of its growth, the charter does allow them to increase capacity a little more slowly (adding more like 600 berths rather than 1,250 in 2012). Plus all four Oceania ships will sail Europe in spring 2012, giving everyone the choice of sailing the newer/bigger or older/smaller ships, based on personal preference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulchili Posted January 10, 2011 #15 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Plus all four Oceania ships will sail Europe in spring 2012, giving everyone the choice of sailing the newer/bigger or older/smaller ships, based on personal preference. Erica, Thank you for that clarification. I agree with all of that reasoning except why would O need 4 ships in Europe at the same time? What about Australia, Oceania, Asia for at least one of those ships? It seems to me that one of the reasons to have more ships is so that you could "cover the globe" more completely ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluffies Posted January 10, 2011 #16 Share Posted January 10, 2011 holy yikes, we are booked on the TA in March 2012. Looks now like it will be Insignia's last trip with Oceania for a couple of years! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rainbow3fe Posted January 10, 2011 #17 Share Posted January 10, 2011 I agree. Since you are traveling before me, please let the rest of us know if there are service or staff problems on your trip. I hope it's fabulous! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mringenoldus Posted January 10, 2011 #18 Share Posted January 10, 2011 I am also sailing on the 3/12 TA with Fluffies. Has anyone ever been on a "last sailing"?? What was it like? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonid Posted January 10, 2011 #19 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Just wondering if O will keep Regatta on the West Coast for the 2012 summer season. DW & I were looking forward to Alaska again, assuming O will continue up there. Probably depends on how well the 2011 itineraries are received. If no more WC sailings, then it's audios O. Will not ever put up with what the TSA does to travelers. DW has to use a wheelchair when we travel, which means a sexual grope. She has said that will never happen to her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MightyQuinn Posted January 10, 2011 #20 Share Posted January 10, 2011 .... He notes that while the line has always been very disciplined in terms of its growth, the charter does allow them to increase capacity a little more slowly (adding more like 600 berths rather than 1,250 in 2012).I think this move makes sense for Oceania. By chartering Insignia, they give themselves time & flexibility to absorb the potential impacts of marketing & operating Marina and Riviera. The charter should ameliorate any short-term staffing problems they face, but I think the benefit may be wider-ranging. Oceania would be in a better position to focus on maintaining product integrity across its entire fleet, rather than potentially discounting fares & cutting costs to get heads in beds. That strategy has been employed by other cruise lines, with mixed results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare PaulMCO Posted January 10, 2011 #21 Share Posted January 10, 2011 I am open minded and expect only the best from Oceania -- but I am getting troubled about this talk about Insignia. We have cruised twice on Nautica and it was impeccable. Now we are preparing for our first Insignia voyage next month. First I read the long thread started by Caroldoll which made the sailing on Insignia sound catastrophic. I know it could not have been as bad as all that -- but it *was* troubling. It especially derided the staff and their performance. Strike one. Others in that thread seemed to indicate that the best staff are all getting transferred (kicked upstairs?) to Marina. Leaving --- who???? Strike two. Then I read this, that Insignia is going to be leased to another line. In 2012, mind you. So what happens to those of us on 2011 cruises? Are they "lame duck" cruises with the crew marking time until they can either move to another ship or find another job??? Is this strike three? Of course, I will only be able to tell after we actually take the cruise, and my hopes are still high -- but then I tend towards optimism. But is anyone else feeling any uneasiness at all???? Just my thoughts ---- Donna Agree also -- but since we are first -- we will keep you all informed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulchili Posted January 10, 2011 #22 Share Posted January 10, 2011 I am also sailing on the 3/12 TA with Fluffies. Has anyone ever been on a "last sailing"?? What was it like? Let's hope it's nothing like the Titanic :eek: Seriously, I am sure it will be just fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tanny18 Posted January 11, 2011 #23 Share Posted January 11, 2011 We just got off the Insignia -- the same cruise as Carrolldoll!! We on the other hand had a wonderful experience...our 7th on Oceania. The food was good, the service impeccable and there were many on the staff who recognized us from other cruises. Some of the staff was leaving, but staff has left on every Oceania ship. They are rotated after their contracts are up. Willie Aames for example will take over the Nautica when it docks in Athens in May and Dottie Kulasa will go to the Regatta. If you didn't know it was the Insignia, it could have been the Regatta or the Nautica. There was no lapse in service at all!! So, IMHO, the Insignia will cruise along until she is chartered out in 2012....I don't think anyone has to worry about a decline in anything on this ship!!! Arlene;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoHoHo Posted January 11, 2011 #24 Share Posted January 11, 2011 For me the Rime of the Ancient Mariner came to mind! The ship is not heading to the scrap heap but to an upscale line so I am sure it will be in tip top shape. The crew are needed elsewhere and not facing imminent retirement. It should be a great cruise. There may be a few 'final' farewells from the crew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orchestrapal Posted January 11, 2011 #25 Share Posted January 11, 2011 We just got off the Insignia -- the same cruise as Carrolldoll!! We on the other hand had a wonderful experience...our 7th on Oceania. The food was good, the service impeccable and there were many on the staff who recognized us from other cruises. Some of the staff was leaving, but staff has left on every Oceania ship. They are rotated after their contracts are up. Willie Aames for example will take over the Nautica when it docks in Athens in May and Dottie Kulasa will go to the Regatta. If you didn't know it was the Insignia, it could have been the Regatta or the Nautica. There was no lapse in service at all!! So, IMHO, the Insignia will cruise along until she is chartered out in 2012....I don't think anyone has to worry about a decline in anything on this ship!!! Arlene;) :DSo glad to hear all is well and NORMAL Oceania. Can't wait for our B/B in April/May.:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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