Any Thoughts? What are the Upsides and What are the Downers?

[sail7seas]

I've been wondering HAL's long term plans in terms of size of fleet.

 

We know they have announced the addition of a new class of ship - Pinnacle (I really like that choice off name) and we know the "S" ships (at least some of them) are for sale.......

 

What would be the upside to HAL not replacing any ships they sell and letting the fleet shrink in berths

 

OR

 

What would be the downside to letting that happen?

 

Would you like to see the fleet reduce to smaller number of ships/berths?

[foodsvcmgr]

Based on the passenger capacity of the Pinnacle Class vs the S Class, there may be a reduction, at least short term, in the total number of ships but not in passenger berths.

 

The upside for HAL (but not necessarily their current passenger base)

would be more profitable ships based on size and technology.

 

The downside (certainly for passengers current & prospective) would be a reduced number and variety of itineraries, particularly to the smaller "boutique" destinations that the smaller ships can offer.

[mamaofami]

I know HAL won't replace any of the S class ships with ships of a similar size. To me, that's the downside since I love the size of those ships.

[sail7seas]

I wonder if it makes much difference in terms of the competition, berthing assignments in various ports, costs of porting, supplying, excursion contracts with locals, that sort of thing.......... ?

[world~citizen]

I know HAL won't replace any of the S class ships with ships of a similar size. To me, that's the downside since I love the size of those ships.

 

That certainly is the downside for us as well.

[tangerinebunny]

''Smart money" seems to encourage transporting as many passengers as possible on each ship. Then focusing on having them return as much money as possible to the ship through purchases.

 

If that's what it takes to turn a profit, then HAL will have to play.

[sail7seas]

Would it be to HAL's benefit to have fewer ships..... a smaller fleet?

 

[DFD1]

IMO, HAL needs to have the largest number of berths, operated at the lowest possible cost, so long as it can keep those berths generating a profit-making income stream.

 

The trick is to do this and still keep the quality high enough to retain their customer base.

 

I personally think they are failing to do this. I believe their quality is slipping and will eventually start costing them customers and lost revenue. It's probably not happening yet, but I believe they shoud be concerned.

 

IMO

[babyorca]

Can you tell me which S class ships are for sale?

[kazu]

I know HAL won't replace any of the S class ships with ships of a similar size. To me, that's the downside since I love the size of those ships.

 

ditto:D

[DFD1]

I've heard nothing about a particular S class ship being on the market. If there is on, we'd sure like to know which one it is.

[callmehalia]

I've heard nothing about a particular S class ship being on the market. If there is on, we'd sure like to know which one it is.

 

Rumour is it's Statendam.

 

http://www.hollandamericablog.com/2012/10/26/holland-america-line-announces-plans-for-new-ship/

 

Stuff is in the comments.

[sail7seas]

Can you tell me which S class ships are for sale?

 

 

Rumor is HAL would like Veendam and Statendam to be the first to go but rumor also says they would sell any of the four if the price is right.

 

I sooo sooo hope Maasdam is the last to be sold. We would miss that ship dearly.

 

[respondeat.cruiser]

Having only sailed Vista and S-Class ships, I can't say I know very much about the relative benefits of the Prinsendam, the R-Class, and the Euro/NA-Dam.

 

But it seems to me that HAL is approaching a two-tiered fleet with a few small ships and many "large mid-size" ships.

 

The fact that they seem to be holding on to the Prinsendam, Rotterdam and Amsterdam suggests that they want to stay in the long voyage, small port market.

 

And the fact that the Pinnacle Class will be larger than Euro/NA shows that they really want to have more passengers per ship to amortize certain inherent costs that come regardless of size.

 

That's what it looks like to me. If we ever hear of the Volendam or Zaandam going up for sale, that would clear up this picture a whole lot.

[cruisemom42]

Perhaps HAL would become more like Princess with a couple of smaller ships, a couple of medium ones, and the remainder getting into the large (but not behemoth) category.

 

IMO, the future size of the fleet (and of the ships in it) would depend on what HAL intends its identity to be.

 

Large ships offering bargain basement fares may be the way to go in the Caribbean, but I'm not sure that model would work if they want to continue to be viewed as a line with great/varied itineraries and longer cruises.

[maxie99]

Rumor is HAL would like Veendam and Statendam to be the first to go but rumor also says they would sell any of the four if the price is right.

 

I sooo sooo hope Maasdam is the last to be sold. We would miss that ship dearly.

 

-:eek:- same here

[sppunk]

Perhaps HAL would become more like Princess with a couple of smaller ships, a couple of medium ones, and the remainder getting into the large (but not behemoth) category.

 

IMO, the future size of the fleet (and of the ships in it) would depend on what HAL intends its identity to be.

 

Large ships offering bargain basement fares may be the way to go in the Caribbean, but I'm not sure that model would work if they want to continue to be viewed as a line with great/varied itineraries and longer cruises.

 

Princess is in the process of ditching their small ships to P&O leases. Coral and Island will soon be their smallest and take over exotic itineraries.

[sail7seas]

So maybe Seabourn should take HAL's "S" ships?

 

[wander]

In 2011 at the meeting frequently held with some of the "higher days" cruisers, the Captain explained to us that new HAL ships would be as large or larger than the present fleet because that is all the new ship investors will bankroll. As many of you know, HAL does not directly pay for the construction of new ships (or at least some of them) but rather they are bankrolled by wealthy investors (corporations, not individuals) and it is only when they are done that HAL takes over control, with some (maybe all, that I don't know) still owned by the investors but run/managed by HAL. He said that these days the investors are primarily interested in the return on investment and that only the larger ships are economically attractive in this regard. He said that he personally preferred the smaller ships, but he was not funding them. His only hope was that HAL would not go the way of the new RCI ship size. Just what one Captain told us in response to a passenger expressed desire to keep ships smaller.

[sail7seas]

I am sure you are aware HAL has announced their next new build will be called "Pinnalce Class", will have at least one sister but there are terms for additional and they will be just under 100,000 tons. I don't think any of us were terribly surprised to hear the ships have to be larger rather than smaller. They cannot make money if they cannot carry enough people each cruise.

 

[Viesczy]

As HAL is a mass market line & not a specialty line no matter how much it is denied, the V & S class now the P class ships are the future of cruising for mass market lines.

 

Smaller ship cruising is Ocean, Crystal and such. Just the way of the giant Corporate world.

 

HAL will continue to bring its brand despite the change in ship size.

 

A lot of rose colored nostalgic views are just wishful remembering but not an accurate memory of the truth, honestly what you had then is what you have now. Corporations trying to give you a product that they believe will win/keep you while giving them the most profit. Really.

 

Derek

[RuthC]

... the V & S class now the P class ships are the future of cruising for mass market lines.

The "S class"? Surely you don't mean that. It's two of the S-class ships that are up for sale.

I presume you really meant to say the "Signature class".

[sail7seas]

The "S" Class ships were HAL's past and part of their present but they are not HAL's future.

 

Rumor being what it is, we've been told all four "S" class ships are for sale but the hope is for Statendam and Veendam to be the first to go.

 

Maybe they'll transfer them to Seabourn? With some sprucing up, maybe that could be a fit? Can they be good enough condition?

[cruisemom42]

As HAL is a mass market line & not a specialty line no matter how much it is denied, the V & S class now the P class ships are the future of cruising for mass market lines.

 

Smaller ship cruising is Ocean, Crystal and such. Just the way of the giant Corporate world.

 

HAL will continue to bring its brand despite the change in ship size.

 

A lot of rose colored nostalgic views are just wishful remembering but not an accurate memory of the truth, honestly what you had then is what you have now. Corporations trying to give you a product that they believe will win/keep you while giving them the most profit. Really.

 

Derek

 

If this is true -- and I'm not doubting it for a minute, especially with the advent of the Pinnacle class and with Princess's new, larger Royal Princess -- then my days on the mass market lines really ARE numbered. I've been on small, medium, and large ships and I do not care for anything larger than the Vista class (and prefer smaller).

 

Fortunately there are niche lines, premium lines and luxury lines with smaller ships who appear to have found ways to make a profit.

[kakalina]

I know HAL won't replace any of the S class ships with ships of a similar size. To me, that's the downside since I love the size of those ships.

 

Couldn't agree more. It is sad that we appear to be the minority.