Carnival Open Loop Cruises - Passport Confusion

[marco]

Do they consider leaving from any US port but returning on that same ship to any US port a "closed loop"? As opposed to leaving from a US port, ending in a foreign country and then having to fly home? I ask this because folks have said that if they are taking a cruise, like from Ft Lauderdale and returning to Ft Lauderdale, you don't need to have a passport, but if there is same emergency and you have to leave the cruise and return home from a foreign port, you do have to have a passport. Considering a passport is valid for 10 yrs, and what a cruise costs to begin with, I don't think "forking over tons of money" for a passport would make me cancel the cruise. Especially since I've seen lots of people repeatedly blow the price of a passport in 5 minutes in the casino!

[dwjoe]

CCL is definitely telling folks they can use just a birth certificate and photo ID on an open loop cruise. And they've been doing it for some time; I linked to a roll call thread earlier where many people were planning to take advantage of this.

 

I wouldn't want to rely on it however. As quoted in this thread, what CCL is doing contradicts the published government regulations.

[crzndeb]

No worries. In light of the troubles he's just not going. I wish getting a passport was easier and faster without having to fork over lots of money. Oh well thanks for the replies

 

Sent from my C6916 using Forums mobile app

 

Passports really aren't that much, considering they are good for 10 years. Heck, people spend that at Starbucks in a month...LOL You just have to prepare for the cost.

 

Having one, whether you need it immediately or not, is a good thing to have. Especially when situations like this come up and you just aren't sure. I think having one opens up a whole new world of traveling possibilities.

[navybankerteacher]

Where did you get the wrong idea that a Closed Loop Cruise cannot begin in one USA port and end in another?

 

Where is your proof?

 

How can it be a "CLOSED loop" if it does not CLOSE the loop by returning to the port of origin?

[chengkp75]

Where did you get the wrong idea that a Closed Loop Cruise cannot begin in one USA port and end in another?

 

Where is your proof?

 

From the CBP website, the definition of "closed loop cruise" is:

 

Most cruises beginning and ending in the U.S. are considered "Closed Loop," meaning they begin and end at the same port in the U.S. For instance, if you board a cruise ship at Fort Lauderdale, Florida, and after visiting at least one foreign port of call, such as Bermuda, or Cancun, return back to Fort Lauderdale, you have taken a closed loop cruise.

 

If, on the other hand, you - say - board a cruise ship in San Diego, California, sail through the Panama Canal (stopping at a foreign port during the cruise), and end the cruise in Miami, Florida, you have not taken a closed loop cruise and the following information does not apply to you. As of June 1, 2009 you need a passport (including infants).

 

So, there is the proof. A closed loop cruise CANNOT begin in one US port and end in another US port.

[bluewave2000]

Hey everybody - new to the forums here. I'm bumping this thread up because I am now faced with the same dilemma. Carnival is repositioning the Valor from San Juan to Cape Canaveral next month, and I would love to go, but my boyfriend does not have a passport. He came with me on our last two cruises (closed-loop) with his birth certificate and he had no problems getting on at all; the people at the cruise terminal didn't ask any questions and processed everything right away. However, I'm nervous about booking this upcoming cruise, because everything I see on US Government websites only lists closed-loop cruises as an exception to the passport rule. However, as others have mentioned, Carnival states on several places on its website that birth certificates are acceptable for open-loop cruises, as long as they begin and end at US ports.

 

So I guess my question is, is there anybody who has taken an open-loop cruise beginning AND ending in different US ports that has used just a birth certificate? Did they give you a hard time about it?

 

Thanks!

[njhorseman]

Hey everybody - new to the forums here. I'm bumping this thread up because I am now faced with the same dilemma. Carnival is repositioning the Valor from San Juan to Cape Canaveral next month, and I would love to go, but my boyfriend does not have a passport. He came with me on our last two cruises (closed-loop) with his birth certificate and he had no problems getting on at all; the people at the cruise terminal didn't ask any questions and processed everything right away. However, I'm nervous about booking this upcoming cruise, because everything I see on US Government websites only lists closed-loop cruises as an exception to the passport rule. However, as others have mentioned, Carnival states on several places on its website that birth certificates are acceptable for open-loop cruises, as long as they begin and end at US ports.

 

So I guess my question is, is there anybody who has taken an open-loop cruise beginning AND ending in different US ports that has used just a birth certificate? Did they give you a hard time about it?

 

Thanks!

 

Carnival's FAQs are poorly written.

 

CBP's regulations only permit use of a birth certificate for closed loop cruises. An open jaw itinerary such as yours require a passport, passport card or certain other 'WHTI-compliant" documents. Here's the official word from CBP:

 

http://www.cbp.gov/sites/default/files/documents/whti_state_factsheet.pdf

 

You'll note the only mention of birth certificates being acceptable for anyone 16 or older is in the closed loop cruise paragraph:

 

U.S. citizens on closed-loop cruises (cruises that begin

and end at the same U.S. port) are able to enter the

United States with a birth certificate and government issued

photo ID. Please be aware that you may still be

required to present a passport to enter the countries

your cruise ship is visiting. Check with your cruise

line to ensure you have the appropriate documents.

Edited February 23, 2015 by njhorseman

[mapsmith]

Could it be that even though San Juan is in a US Territory, for WHTI definitions it is not considered a US Port? That could explain a lot.

[njhorseman]

Could it be that even though San Juan is in a US Territory, for WHTI definitions it is not considered a US Port? That could explain a lot.

 

No...it's a US port. And if it were not, you would definitely need a passport to cruise from Puerto Rico to anywhere in the US .

[shawne71]

We have passport cards. We can use those for our Carnival Liberty Repo from San Juan to Galveston. We do not need the passport book, correct? :confused:

[sparks1093]

We have passport cards. We can use those for our Carnival Liberty Repo from San Juan to Galveston. We do not need the passport book, correct? :confused:

 

Passport cards can be used between two different US cities (open jaw sailings).

[shawne71]

Passport cards can be used between two different US cities (open jaw sailings).

 

Thank you!

[Flatbush Flyer]

I would travel with a passport anyway. What happens if you are in St Martin for instance and something happens and you can't get back on the ship. Your passport would definitely be needed. Any cruise I have ever been on says that not only do we need a passport but it is HIGHLY recommended that you take it with you at the ports. You never know what could happen!!

 

 

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Most premium/luxury lines require a passport for all passengers on all itineraries and even go so far as to require surrendering them to the purser's office at embarkation. Unless it is that rare port that requires a cruiser to carry ashore something beyond a sea card with ID picture, you don't need it with you.

Passport needed for an immigration check on port arrival? Purser handles it while you sleep in. Miss the ship? Purser transfers passport to ship's agent who holds it for you (do carry that agent's contact info with you-usually found in ship's daily news sheet). Go to that rare port requiring you to carry a passport? Purser returns it to you.

Do not take your passport off the ship. It's a no-brainer.

[njhorseman]

Passport cards can be used between two different US cities (open jaw sailings).

 

It's permitted under CBP regulations, but subject to the particular cruise line's rules and the laws of the countries on the itinerary. In some cases cruise lines require a passport, and there are some countries that require a passport. Always check your cruise line's FAQs for the requirements.

Edited March 16, 2015 by njhorseman

[Hlitner]

This would not be the first time we have known a CCL owned cruise line to disseminate incorrect information. I am going to post some info direct from the US CBP web site which leaves little question:

 

I'm taking a "Closed Loop" cruise, do I need a passport?

 

Most cruises beginning and ending in the U.S. are considered "Closed Loop," meaning they begin and end at the same port in the U.S. For instance, if you board a cruise ship at Fort Lauderdale, Florida, and after visiting at least one foreign port of call, such as Bermuda, or Cancun, return back to Fort Lauderdale, you have taken a closed loop cruise.

 

If, on the other hand, you - say - board a cruise ship in San Diego, California, sail through the Panama Canal (stopping at a foreign port during the cruise), and end the cruise in Miami, Florida, you have not taken a closed loop cruise and the following information does not apply to you. As of June 1, 2009 you need a passport (including infants).

 

As to the cruise lines disseminating incorrect info, this has happened before and the passengers were the ones to suffer. It happened to us several years ago on a Princess cruise when the cruise line told over 3000 passengers they DID NOT need a Brazilian Visa for a cruise that stopped in Brazil. Eventually Princess did correct their error (they had to contact over 3000 cruisers only a few weeks prior to the cruise) and passengers who had listened to the cruise line were forced to quickly scramble to get the expensive Visa.

 

And lets be clear that no cruise line, not even Carnival, has the power to arbitrarily change US Laws and Regulations.

 

Hank

[shawne71]

It's permitted under CBP regulations, but subject to the particular cruise line's rules and the laws of the countries on the itinerary. In some cases cruise lines require a passport, and there are some countries that require a passport. Always check your cruise line's FAQs for the requirements.

 

I was asking about using my passport card for our Carnival Liberty Repo from San Juan to Galveston.

[Velvetwater]

The simple answer is to get a passport regardless of the confusion.

 

It might be needed for quick get home purposes/missing the ship.

 

 

Or if you want to go further into the world.

[njhorseman]

I was asking about using my passport card for our Carnival Liberty Repo from San Juan to Galveston.

 

While it's likely your passport card is OK, it's impossible to answer your question with 100% certainty without knowing what countries your ship is visiting. Carnival's documentation FAQs should have the answer.

Edited March 16, 2015 by njhorseman

[broberts]

I would certainly comply with CBP regulations.

 

But I do wonder how a US citizen, especially one born in the US, could be denied entry.

[shawne71]

While it's likely your passport card is OK, it's impossible to answer your question with 100% certainty without knowing what countries your ship is visiting. Carnival's documentation FAQs should have the answer.

 

Departing San Juan with stops in St. Thomas, Barbados, Scarborough, Grenada, Aruba, Grand Cayman, and ending in Galveston.

[SadieN]

We were on the previous cruise November 9,2013 NOLA-SJU. We needed our passports

Edited March 17, 2015 by SadieN

[sparks1093]

I would certainly comply with CBP regulations.

 

But I do wonder how a US citizen, especially one born in the US, could be denied entry.

 

If a US citizen doesn't have the correct documentation they won't be allowed to board, so it would never become a question of being denied entry.

[broberts]

If a US citizen doesn't have the correct documentation they won't be allowed to board, so it would never become a question of being denied entry.

 

I thought the premise of this thread was that Carnival considered a birth certificate and photo id acceptable for an open jaw cruise.

[sparks1093]

I thought the premise of this thread was that Carnival considered a birth certificate and photo id acceptable for an open jaw cruise.

 

I see where you are coming from. If a passenger was cleared with documentation improperly than the US citizen in question would not be denied entry upon the return of the cruise (although they may be delayed by being sent to secondary inspection).

[chengkp75]

I see where you are coming from. If a passenger was cleared with documentation improperly than the US citizen in question would not be denied entry upon the return of the cruise (although they may be delayed by being sent to secondary inspection).

 

And Carnival would get their wrist slapped by CBP, and they really know how to hold a grudge.