Tipping in bars/lounges

[Aquahound]

Two weeks ago on the Zuiderdam, I was also told by a bartender in the Crows Nest that all cash tips to bartenders were pooled amongst the bar staff.

[sail7seas]

Ruth C wrote:

 

 

 

I am sure you are correct about the daily hotel service charge. (You simply articulate if better than me!)

 

But as far as "any cash given can be kept by the individual" goes, I beg to differ. As recently as February of this month (On the Volendam) we were told bluntly by two different bar wait staff that the company policy was they HAD to put all additional tips into the communal "tip jar" which was shared with everyone who had anything to do with bar service. (Front and back room)

 

The second waiter to tell us this was at the airport with us on his way home at the end of his current contract. Amazing how they open up when away from "Mother HAL"... And how bitter this long time HAL employee was about the changes in the "tipping rules". (Interesting hour long conversation)

 

Fred

 

 

 

That is so unusual that he wasn't in International Terminal.

 

Actually, I think I have a vague memory of much of the crew being escorted until they board their flights.... Something to do with Immigration and exiting the U.S.

 

Of course, I can't speak what happens if crew leaves for their vacation from a country other than U.S.

 

[cbr663]

It would be so much better if passengers would stop tipping individual staff and instead increase their HSC. Tipping individual staff contributes to other passengers receiving poor service.

 

The original intent of the HSC was to eliminate the need for individual tipping. When some passengers continue with individual tipping, crew members spend considerable time trying to determine who will tip and who will not. Passengers who are thought to tip extra may receive great service while those passengers who are thought not to tip receive less than or subpar service.

 

Add to that the passenger confusion of when and if to tip - do I need to tip in addition to the HSC? Do I tip before I receive the service? After the service? At the end of the cruise? You have a recipe for disaster.

 

On our last cruise on the Volendam, we had on of the best nights ever in the Pinnacle Grill. Our waitress was the absolute best. She was warm, welcoming, and really added to the evening. I made a note to remember her name as I wanted to write a personal note to acknowledge her service. It was my intention to write that personal note and include a tip with it later in the cruise. This was only a 7 day cruise so I had only planned to wait a day or two.

 

Imagine my surprise when 2 days later when dined in the PG for lunch and had the same waitress. My enthusiasm was quickly extinguished as soon as our waitress approached us. Gone was the warm and welcoming demeanour and in its place was a cold and impersonal service provided by someone merely going through the motions. Twice I had to look to make sure that this was the same gracious server that had just recently served us. This time we didn't even receive as much as a smile during lunch.

 

Later that day I took the time to write a personal note regarding the outstanding service we received during our first night in the PG, included a tip, and personally addressed it to our server. I then hand delivered it to the PG Manager and asked him to please give the envelope to our server. (and no, I did not include a tip for the lunch service as it did not warrant a tip). I had naively thought that providing a well written personal note with a tip would be a good thing. Now I realize that I was wrong.

 

I am convinced that I had simply left the tip on the table during our first visit to the PG that our second visit would have been much different. Because I didn't leave a tip the first night, the server incorrectly assumed that I was not a tipper and the service we received the second visit suffered. Because HAL's rules on tipping are not clear, I incorrectly thought I was doing a good thing by tipping later. The outcome was clear - this was a lose lose situation for everyone.

 

I think that the best action that any passenger can take is to stop rewarding individual service and instead, simply increase the HSC. This action is consistent with HAL's policy of making sure that every one benefits from the tip, and not just those with direct access to the passenger. It also encourages all staff to provide a consistent level of service to all passengers instead of providing service based on an ill construct of perceived rewards and punishment.

 

It may also finally convince HAL that it is time for it to raise the HSC, it is one of the lowest in the industry. We truly do get what we pay for. As it stands right now, I have learned from several unfortunate experiences that if you want to be assured of great service on a HAL ship, tip upfront.

Edited July 25, 2014 by cbr663

[Laminator]

It would be so much better if passengers would stop tipping individual staff and instead increase their HSC. Tipping individual staff contributes to other passengers receiving poor service.

 

The original intent of the HSC was to eliminate the need for individual tipping. When some passengers continue with individual tipping, crew members spend considerable time trying to determine who will tip and who will not. Passengers who are thought to tip extra may receive great service while those passengers who are thought not to tip receive less than or subpar service.

 

Add to that the passenger confusion of when and if to tip - do I need to tip in addition to the HSC? Do I tip before I receive the service? After the service? At the end of the cruise? You have a recipe for disaster.

 

On our last cruise on the Volendam, we had on of the best nights ever in the Pinnacle Grill. Our waitress was the absolute best. She was warm, welcoming, and really added to the evening. I made a note to remember her name as I wanted to write a personal note to acknowledge her service. It was my intention to write that personal note and include a tip with it later in the cruise. This was only a 7 day cruise so I had only planned to wait a day or two.

 

Imagine my surprise when 2 days later when dined in the PG for lunch and had the same waitress. My enthusiasm was quickly extinguished as soon as our waitress approached us. Gone was the warm and welcoming demeanour and in its place was a cold and impersonal service provided by someone merely going through the motions. Twice I had to look to make sure that this was the same gracious server that had just recently served us. This time we didn't even receive as much as a smile during lunch.

 

Later that day I took the time to write a personal note regarding the outstanding service we received during our first night in the PG, included a tip, and personally addressed it to our server. I then hand delivered it to the PG Manager and asked him to please give the envelope to our server. (and no, I did not include a tip for the lunch service as it did not warrant a tip). I had naively thought that providing a well written personal note with a tip would be a good thing. Now I realize that I was wrong.

 

I am convinced that I had simply left the tip on the table during our first visit to the PG that our second visit would have been much different. Because I didn't leave a tip the first night, the server incorrectly assumed that I was not a tipper and the service we received the second visit suffered. Because HAL's rules on tipping are not clear, I incorrectly thought I was doing a good thing by tipping later. The outcome was clear - this was a lose lose situation for everyone.

 

I think that the best action that any passenger can take is to stop rewarding individual service and instead, simply increase the HSC. This action is consistent with HAL's policy of making sure that every one benefits from the tip, and not just those with direct access to the passenger. It also encourages all staff to provide a consistent level of service to all passengers instead of providing service based on an ill construct of perceived rewards and punishment.

 

It may also finally convince HAL that it is time for it to raise the HSC, it is one of the lowest in the industry. We truly do get what we pay for. As it stands right now, I have learned from several unfortunate experiences that if you want to be assured of great service on a HAL ship, tip upfront.

 

On one of our first HAL cruises we had a wonderful bartender on a Caribbean cruise. My goal was to give him an additional tip at the end of the cruise. Lo and behold his contract came up mid cruise and he was gone. That is when I decided to tip at the time the service was provided. The bartender that took over the bar mid-cruise was nowhere near as good as the previous bartender and consequently received no additional tip.

 

Tipping is an individual thing. I do tip. What frustrates me is cc members having a problem with what I choose to do with MY money. It is absolutely no one else's business. If you choose not to tip that is your prerogative and also none of my business.

[donaldsc]

I have a friend that always tips a dollar everytime she orders a drink.

 

If she buys a drink that costs $8.00, that means that her total trip with the mandatory 15% is is 22.5%. To me, that is an outrageous tip.

 

DON

[FredT]

Sail Seven seas wrote:

 

 

That is so unusual that he wasn't in International Terminal.

 

Actually, I think I have a vague memory of much of the crew being escorted until they board their flights.... Something to do with Immigration and exiting the U.S.

 

Of course, I can't speak what happens if crew leaves for their vacation from a country other than U.S.

 

Cruise ended in Hong Kong....

[DaveOKC]

I have a friend that always tips a dollar everytime she orders a drink.

 

If she buys a drink that costs $8.00, that means that her total trip with the mandatory 15% is is 22.5%. To me, that is an outrageous tip.

 

DON

 

I think your math is wrong - it is 27.5% not 22.5. And while this is a large tip (as you state), it is hard to leave the bartender loose change (40 cents would end up as 20% total).

 

DaveOKC

[SeaBands]

most nights I usually give an extra tip early on in the cruise and usually get a better pour for our drinks. The usual pour is a bit weak and I don't need a double.

[POA1]

If she buys a drink that costs $8.00, that means that her total trip with the mandatory 15% is is 22.5%. To me, that is an outrageous tip.

 

DON

Don - As previously mentioned, the 22.5% calculation is incorrect. Is the true percentage of 27.5% still outrageous, or is there another, stronger word now?

 

A few other scenarios: Our average round is $14.90. Our drinks are Ketel One & soda with lime and Bourbon on the rocks. Neither one has a high degree of difficulty from a mixology standpoint.

 

We sometimes, but rarely, tip an extra $1 per round. That's 21.7% where you factor in the 15% auto grat.

 

Fairly often, we'll tip $2, for a total of 28.3% That's the outrageous one, unless it's changed description due to it being higher than originally anticipated.

 

Occasionally, we will tip $3 per round, or 35% factoring in the service charge.

 

There are also instances where the tip is $5, or 48.3% inclusive of the automatic tip.

 

Would these all be outrageous, or would you use different terms? You know, like shocking, atrocious, scandalous, appalling, or monstrous?

 

Thanks for the feedback!

[Laminator]

The beverage attendants and bartenders do not get the full 15% gratuity. Credit card fees are deducted from those tips. Depending on the cards used those rates can be up to 3%. Amex may even charge a little higher.

[DaveOKC]

The beverage attendants and bartenders do not get the full 15% gratuity. Credit card fees are deducted from those tips. Depending on the cards used those rates can be up to 3%. Amex may even charge a little higher.

 

But doesn't that 3% charge apply to the service charge portion only (that is deducted from the tips)? If so, that means that the servers get 14.55% instead of 15%. Just trying to be clear.

 

DaveOKC

[Laminator]

But doesn't that 3% charge apply to the service charge portion only (that is deducted from the tips)? If so, that means that the servers get 14.55% instead of 15%. Just trying to be clear.

 

DaveOKC

 

I would hope for they're sake that is the case. I still don't think that charge is fair.

[Linda&Vern]

The beverage attendants and bartenders do not get the full 15% gratuity. Credit card fees are deducted from those tips. Depending on the cards used those rates can be up to 3%. Amex may even charge a little higher.

Beverages are charged to your room keycard. Are you saying the bank transaction fee on the entire balance due on a cabin bill is taken out of the beverage staff gratuity? Your credit card is not charged every time you use your keycard - but rather once at the end of your cruise.

[Laminator]

Beverages are charged to your room keycard. Are you saying the bank transaction fee on the entire balance due on a cabin bill is taken out of the beverage staff gratuity? Your credit card is not charged every time you use your keycard - but rather once at the end of your cruise.

 

No...not the entire credit card charge. The portion of the 15%. I believe the previous poster has the right numbers, that it would amount to about a half of percent of the 15%.

[sail7seas]

Beverages are charged to your room keycard. Are you saying the bank transaction fee on the entire balance due on a cabin bill is taken out of the beverage staff gratuity? Your credit card is not charged every time you use your keycard - but rather once at the end of your cruise.

 

 

 

Thanks for posting this as I am very confused by the credit card transaction fee deduction. I never heard such a thing on a cruise ship account. That would take a lot of book keeping for every drink charged at every bar on every HAL ship.

 

[Laminator]

Thanks for posting this as I am very confused by the credit card transaction fee deduction. I never heard such a thing on a cruise ship account. That would take a lot of book keeping for every drink charged at every bar on every HAL ship.

 

 

This is how it is stated:

 

E. Beverage Service Charge Plan:

 

The Beverage Service Charge Plan is based on 15% of the amount paid by guests for beverages, minus fees charged by credit card companies. The remainder is then either paid directly to the individual(s) involved in the sale or placed into one or more pools. Each pool is distributed to some or all of the participants on each vessel based on a point system; pool participants vary by position. The percentage amount paid by guests may be changed from time to time by the Company.

 

I found this approximately 8 months ago by accident while I was researching something HAL related. I don't even remember what it was.

There is also a paragraph relating to HSC charges. It states that if the tip pool does not cover a workers "Daily Guarantee Amount" then HAL will pay the difference.

 

Jeez...I wonder if this has something to do with the staff cutbacks. With the HSC being removed by PAX did HAL have to reach into their own pockets too often?

Edited July 25, 2014 by Laminator

[POA1]

With respect to the credit card "vig" or fee... It's pretty standard to take the amount of the fee into account because the business is only getting paid the amount net of fees. Credit cards have two main fee components: a transaction fee and the interchange fee. The former a fixed amount per transaction. For example, if your merchant account charged $0.30 + 2.9% and you ran a $100 charged through your merchant processor, you would pay $2.90 + $0.30 in fees for a net receipt of $96.80. If you were paying out tips on the net, you would pay 15% of $96.80, or $14.52. If you paid tips on the gross, it would be $15.00.

 

Notes: The cruise line is only running your card once for all of your charges. This means that the transaction fee of $0.30 would just be noise in the tip calculation. Also, as someone stated, some - but not all - merchant banks charge higher interchange fees for different cards, with American Express typically running 0.25% to 0.75% higher.

[sail7seas]

This is how it is stated:

 

E. Beverage Service Charge Plan:

 

The Beverage Service Charge Plan is based on 15% of the amount paid by guests for beverages, minus fees charged by credit card companies. The remainder is then either paid directly to the individual(s) involved in the sale or placed into one or more pools. Each pool is distributed to some or all of the participants on each vessel based on a point system; pool participants vary by position. The percentage amount paid by guests may be changed from time to time by the Company.

 

I found this approximately 8 months ago by accident while I was researching something HAL related. I don't even remember what it was.

There is also a paragraph relating to HSC charges. It states that if the tip pool does not cover a workers "Daily Guarantee Amount" then HAL will pay the difference.

 

Jeez...I wonder if this has something to do with the staff cutbacks. With the HSC being removed by PAX did HAL have to reach into their own pockets too often?

 

With respect to the credit card "vig" or fee... It's pretty standard to take the amount of the fee into account because the business is only getting paid the amount net of fees. Credit cards have two main fee components: a transaction fee and the interchange fee. The former a fixed amount per transaction. For example, if your merchant account charged $0.30 + 2.9% and you ran a $100 charged through your merchant processor, you would pay $2.90 + $0.30 in fees for a net receipt of $96.80. If you were paying out tips on the net, you would pay 15% of $96.80, or $14.52. If you paid tips on the gross, it would be $15.00.

 

Notes: The cruise line is only running your card once for all of your charges. This means that the transaction fee of $0.30 would just be noise in the tip calculation. Also, as someone stated, some - but not all - merchant banks charge higher interchange fees for different cards, with American Express typically running 0.25% to 0.75% higher.

 

 

 

How do they keep track of each individual's bar charges?

If Cabin 123 is using AmEx for their On Board Account, the transaction fee is higher than Cabin 456 that is using cash held on deposit...... no transaction fee. Why would the bartender serving the person paying in cash have his tip reduced by a charge account transaction fee if there was no fee charged?

 

Do all Visa and M/C accounts have the same percentage deducted?

 

 

[Laminator]

How do they keep track of each individual's bar charges?

If Cabin 123 is using AmEx for their On Board Account, the transaction fee is higher than Cabin 456 that is using cash held on deposit...... no transaction fee. Why would the bartender serving the person paying in cash have his tip reduced by a charge account transaction fee if there was no fee charged?

 

Do all Visa and M/C accounts have the same percentage deducted?

Edited July 25, 2014 by Laminator
delete...double post

[Laminator]

How do they keep track of each individual's bar charges?

If Cabin 123 is using AmEx for their On Board Account, the transaction fee is higher than Cabin 456 that is using cash held on deposit...... no transaction fee. Why would the bartender serving the person paying in cash have his tip reduced by a charge account transaction fee if there was no fee charged?

 

Do all Visa and M/C accounts have the same percentage deducted?

 

 

 

Any POS system can differentiate between credit card transactions and cash transactions. I am quite sure the purser can run a report in 10 seconds to find out the credit card transactions and cash transactions. It is probably even easier with the cash transactions only occurring at the front desk or the Neptune Lounge.

 

Credit Card companies charge different rates for their cards. Cards that offer more "points", "miles" or cash back tend to charge a higher "vig" than regular cards. It's a small percentage higher but it is higher. Standard Visa and MC cards pretty much charge the same rate.

[sail7seas]

Any POS system can differentiate between credit card transactions and cash transactions. I am quite sure the purser can run a report in 10 seconds to find out the credit card transactions and cash transactions. It is probably even easier with the cash transactions only occurring at the front desk or the Neptune Lounge.

 

Credit Card companies charge different rates for their cards. Cards that offer more "points", "miles" or cash back tend to charge a higher "vig" than regular cards. It's a small percentage higher but it is higher. Standard Visa and MC cards pretty much charge the same rate.

 

 

 

 

Thanks. Very interesting.

I had no idea...... :)

 

[POA1]

How do they keep track of each individual's bar charges?

If Cabin 123 is using AmEx for their On Board Account, the transaction fee is higher than Cabin 456 that is using cash held on deposit...... no transaction fee. Why would the bartender serving the person paying in cash have his tip reduced by a charge account transaction fee if there was no fee charged?

 

Do all Visa and M/C accounts have the same percentage deducted?

 

 

It's done by computer via the point of sale feed. It's not as complicated as you might expect. You have the bulk service charge amount for each folio and it's multiplied by (1 - the card rate %) to get the net tip amount for the folio.

[Laminator]

 

Thanks. Very interesting.

I had no idea...... :)

 

 

If you put .com on the end of my name that is how I know this. We do a large amount of online credit card business. As your business grows you can negotiate lower cc transaction fees.

[Lizzie68]

How do they keep track of each individual's bar charges?

If Cabin 123 is using AmEx for their On Board Account, the transaction fee is higher than Cabin 456 that is using cash held on deposit...... no transaction fee. Why would the bartender serving the person paying in cash have his tip reduced by a charge account transaction fee if there was no fee charged?

 

Do all Visa and M/C accounts have the same percentage deducted?

 

 

 

POS systems are like mini computers and they can give you all kinds of reports and track multiple cabins or sources. Percentages are pretty much the same though for quite awhile Mastercard was higher to the point that many retailers refused to accept it.

[sail7seas]

If you put .com on the end of my name that is how I know this. We do a large amount of online credit card business. As your business grows you can negotiate lower cc transaction fees.

 

 

Great website. I bookmarked it. I can imagine I might have some uses. :)