This Thread Is To Be Used For All Discussions About HAL's On Board Smoking Policies

[scm1848]

As someone who would no longer cruise if I couldn't smoke on my balcony, I LOVE your analogy to boom boxes. I certainly wouldn't book a cruise with Acme Cruise Line, and then spend hours and years bellyaching on a board about the boom boxes that the cruise line clearly stated were allowed.

 

Overall, your thoughts were concise, well-stated and logical. Cheers!!

[Tom-n-Cheryl]

Nope. Sure wouldn't. But then, you see, I would avoid any cruise line which allowed a guest to play boom boxes loudly in their cabin. If Acme Cruise Line allows guests to play boom boxes in the cabins, then that's their business. I'd just steer clear of Acme Cruise Line.

 

Perhaps Acme Cruise Line could have "Boom Boxes Allowed" Cabins. That would be fine, if they chose to do that. I'd just book a cabin in the "No Boom Box" section.

 

Of course, I wasn't aware people playing Boom Boxes on cruise ships was such a problem.

 

Naturally, I would assume most cruise lines have a policy about excessive noise in cabins.

 

Any other straw men you'd like to mention?

 

The one in Wizard of Oz perhaps? :rolleyes:

 

You obviously do not have a problem with second hand smoke. If you did, you'd understand.

 

For those who enjoy the tranquility which is afforded to them by their balcony while at sea - a smoker close to them can (I said can) force them inside... all because someone else is exercising their rights, as outlined by HAL.

 

On several cruises we've been the ones run off our balcony due to the unpleasant nature of second hand smoke. Perhaps we should just settle for an inside, and forgo the balcony. Perhaps we should sail another line which prohibits balcony smoking. Trust me, the smokers will STILL be out there smoking - though usually not at the railing where you can spot them. Even when we have identified the culprit, we haven't "turned them in".

 

I was reminded again yesterday just how filthy an addiction cigarettes are. Behind the never ending supply of vehicles where you see someone flicking ashes out for a mile or so, then they miraculously manage to "accidentally" DROP the butt (funny how smokers seem to be so uncoordinated)!

 

Tom

Edited October 28, 2015 by Tom-n-Cheryl

[cwd79]

My husband smokes, not happy about it but it's his vice. He is very cognizant of others when he smokes. While on a cruise he limits how much he smokes to around 3-5 cigarettes a day. Only smokes on the balcony and usually at times where people wouldn't normally be outside, either very late or very early, and he always asks for an ash tray. I am not sure why smokers would be flicking the ash and butts off their balcony, that sounds dangerous... but the ash tray if properly used takes care of the ash and the butt. I know he would never intentionally want to ruin someone's vacation. Rather he tries his best with his addiction to not create issues with other passengers. I wish he didn't smoke but Holland America is one of the few places left that allows smoking on the balcony so we stick with them.

[tim22361]

My husband smokes, not happy about it but it's his vice. He is very cognizant of others when he smokes. While on a cruise he limits how much he smokes to around 3-5 cigarettes a day. Only smokes on the balcony and usually at times where people wouldn't normally be outside, either very late or very early, and he always asks for an ash tray. I am not sure why smokers would be flicking the ash and butts off their balcony, that sounds dangerous... but the ash tray if properly used takes care of the ash and the butt. I know he would never intentionally want to ruin someone's vacation. Rather he tries his best with his addiction to not create issues with other passengers. I wish he didn't smoke but Holland America is one of the few places left that allows smoking on the balcony so we stick with them.

 

He sounds like a considerate and courteous man. Good for him.

 

I am personally sick and tired of the morality police lording over tobacco users, consigning them to second class citizenship. There are common sense, logical ways to accommodate everyone, but the PC crowd is interested only in condemning to purgatory those who are not nearly so pious as they are.

 

Enough!

Edited October 28, 2015 by tim22361

[Lizzie68]

He sounds like a considerate and courteous man. Good for him.

 

I am personally sick and tired of the morality police lording over tobacco users, consigning them to second class citizenship. There are common sense, logical ways to accommodate everyone, but the PC crowd is interested only in condemning to purgatory those who are nearly so pious as they are.

 

Enough!

 

I think the feeling is quite mutual. And I used to think myself a "considerate smoker" until I didn't smoke anymore, and realised there is no such thing, and I had no idea how bad it smelled and how badly it affected others.

[dogo88]

Just got off the Oosterdam from a 10 day southern Caribbean cruise. On all past HAL cruises there were smokers in the Promenade deck. Not a lot but enough to notice the smell of smoke. On the Oosterdam there are yellow "No Smoking" signs throughout. Never saw these before on any other HAL ship. Hopefully it's a positive step forward.

 

Dan

[BamaRi1962]

Thank you for the welcome!

[Host Walt]

Here is the initial post for thie thread. Please note the portion highlited in red.

 

Posts discussing the health issues of smoking are off topic because Cruise Critic is a cruising forum, not a health or pro- or anti- smoking forum. This topic is about HAL's on board smoking policies.

We have established this thread to be the "go to" thread for all discussions pertaining to Holland America's on board smoking policies. This thread is intended to make it easier for all Cruise Critic members to discuss these policies and any future changes thereto.

 

Here's a link to HAL's policy summary Shipboard Life: Is smoking allowed on board? - Click on "Shipboard Life" and a drop down menu will appear. Click on "On Board Policies" in that menu and you'll see the last question is "Is smoking allowed on board?"

 

Here's the currently posted policy (as of August 9, 2014):

 

-----

Is Smoking Allowed On Board?

For the comfort of all of our guests, all staterooms (cabins), showrooms and most other indoor areas are designated non-smoking. While smoking is not permitted in staterooms, guests are allowed to smoke on stateroom verandahs. Smoking is also permitted on certain other designated, outside decks. The designated smoking areas for all ships are as follows unless otherwise noted.

 

 

• Stateroom verandahs
  
• Casino (Active players only)
  
• Seaview Bar
  
• Outside Decks
  
  • Sports Deck
    
  • Observation Deck (ms Prinsendam, ms Eurodam, ms Nieuw Amsterdam, ms Noordam, ms Oosterdam, ms Westerdam, and ms Zuiderdam only)
    

   

 

Cigar and pipe smoking is not allowed anywhere inside the ship; it is only permitted on the outside decks where smoking is otherwise allowed and on stateroom verandahs. Electronic cigarettes are permitted in staterooms but not in other public areas of the ship other than on outside decks designated as smoking areas.

 

 

Any guest who smokes inside staterooms in violation of our policy will be charged a US$250 cleaning fee per day of violation.

 

----

 

Reminders.

 

1. Our community guidelines continue to apply to this thread.

 

2. This is a forum for discussions of cruising and associated topics. It is not a forum for discussing the health, economics and public policy aspects of smoking, whether associated with cigarettes, pipes, cigars or controlled substances (marijuana).

3. Discussions of this approach to smoking posts and other board policies are off topic and will be removed. Please post discussions of this approach for smoking posts to this thread: Single Smoking Thread on the HAL Board - a Sticky

 

Thanks for your understanding and continued participation on the Cruise Critic forums.

[BamaRi1962]

:-). Yup

Edited October 29, 2015 by BamaRi1962
Wanted to add the word Yup

[Aquahound]

Just got off the Oosterdam from a 10 day southern Caribbean cruise. On all past HAL cruises there were smokers in the Promenade deck. Not a lot but enough to notice the smell of smoke. On the Oosterdam there are yellow "No Smoking" signs throughout. Never saw these before on any other HAL ship. Hopefully it's a positive step forward.

 

Dan

 

I noticed the same thing because of the previous discussion on these boards. The promenade was so nice because it was smoke free.

[BamaRi1962]

Here is the initial post for thie thread. Please note the portion highlited in red.

 

Posts discussing the health issues of smoking are off topic because Cruise Critic is a cruising forum, not a health or pro- or anti- smoking forum. This topic is about HAL's on board smoking policies.

 

Thank you, Walt.

 

I love Holland's line, because they let me be me. I appreciate the fact they recognize the 1/4 of the adult population who yet smoke...also enjoy taking cruises. I am so glad my money is just as important to them as the others.

 

Thanks, HAL, for being the supreme cruise line!

[Lizzie68]

Thank you, Walt.

 

I love Holland's line, because they let me be me. I appreciate the fact they recognize the 1/4 of the adult population who yet smoke...also enjoy taking cruises. I am so glad my money is just as important to them as the others.

 

Thanks, HAL, for being the supreme cruise line!

 

So you think that it makes good business sense for HAL to cater to 1/4 of the population while alienating 3/4 of the population? Somehow I think this will change at some point. I do sympathise with smokers having less and less places where they can freely smoke these days, but just about every major city now has stringent smoking laws. I would like to see HAL abolish balcony smoking but give smokers an indoor area which is well ventilated, as well as the existing smoking area on the aft Lido.

Edited October 29, 2015 by Lizzie68

[LMaxwell]

17% of adults in the US smoke, not 25%. Under age 20 that number drops to 8%.

 

Higher socioeconomic on the scale the numbers are even lower. HAL smoking policy probably caters to 10% of people, not 25%.

 

Even NCL is leaning towards removing casino smoking. And I can guarantee as soon as NCL does it Royal Caribbean will do it.

 

Seems HAL is trying to lessen the amount of areas people can smoke, but eventually they'll have to restrict the balconies and potentially the casino. time will tell. I truly believed it would be ushered in with Koningsdam. We have yet to see.

 

Right now the policy is off putting. I can not book a balcony for an Alaska cruise because of it (not with HAL). I have otherwise heard HAL runs a great Alaska cruise.

[nb125]

We live in such an unfortunate age of political correctness, with people becoming such busybodies, preoccupied with what others are doing.

 

I applaud HAL for having the courage to stand in the face of the Pleasure Police and allow smoking on balconies.

 

There are many things I could get offended by with regard to my fellow cruisers. Maybe I find the obese cruisers disgusting. Perhaps I find their perfume revolting. Some are too loud. Others are obnoxious. Some get drunk.

 

But they all paid for their cruise, and I would never stand in the way of their having fun on their cruise.

 

It's too bad we no longer live in simpler times, where people minded their own business, and everyone had a live and let live philosophy.

 

And please, before anyone posts the predictable "second hand smoke" nonsense, that objection has already been taken apart on this thread.

 

Smoke em if ya got em, I say. The whole ship could be smoking friendly, for all I care.

 

Bravo to you HAL, for being the only mature adult in the whole damn industry.

 

Nice to hear to hear a reasonable voice among all the anti smoking hysteria on this thread.

[Tom-n-Cheryl]

...

Even NCL is leaning towards removing casino smoking. And I can guarantee as soon as NCL does it Royal Caribbean will do it.

....

 

That's a bold move by NCL regarding their recent (and future) ships. I applaud them - and will book with them again, with this new policy being a major reason why.

 

I agree that it will reach a tipping point, and those lines which don't follow suit will be left behind... in/with the ashes!

 

...

Seems HAL is trying to lessen the amount of areas people can smoke, but eventually they'll have to restrict the balconies and potentially the casino. time will tell. I truly believed it would be ushered in with Koningsdam. We have yet to see.

....

 

I sure hope that they take this opportunity with a beautiful new ship to move towards the inevitable future.

 

Tom

[Cruzaholic41]

1

Even NCL is leaning towards removing casino smoking. And I can guarantee as soon as NCL does it Royal Caribbean will do it.

 

Other way around. NCL is doing what RCI started 6 years ago with Oasis. NCL is just taking it to another level. And given NCL's nickel and dime reputation, it wouldn't surprise me if they created a cover charge for the smokers. That's one nickel and dime I would support!

Edited October 29, 2015 by Cruzaholic41

[cruisemom42]

17% of adults in the US smoke, not 25%. Under age 20 that number drops to 8%.

 

 

17% of US adults translates into a huge market opportunity, especially if those 17% feel they are not welcome on other mass market lines (e.g., not able to smoke on their balcony, which many seem to feel is a "must have").

 

Given HAL's inaction to date, it seems their management may well be aware of this and perhaps are even benefiting from it.

[richstowe]

17% of adults in the US smoke, not 25%. Under age 20 that number drops to 8%.

 

Higher socioeconomic on the scale the numbers are even lower. HAL smoking policy probably caters to 10% of people, not 25%.

 

Even NCL is leaning towards removing casino smoking. And I can guarantee as soon as NCL does it Royal Caribbean will do it.

 

Seems HAL is trying to lessen the amount of areas people can smoke, but eventually they'll have to restrict the balconies and potentially the casino. time will tell. I truly believed it would be ushered in with Koningsdam. We have yet to see.

 

Right now the policy is off putting. I can not book a balcony for an Alaska cruise because of it (not with HAL). I have otherwise heard HAL runs a great Alaska cruise.

According to CC, NCL is not removing casino smoking any time soon . They are quarantining it (as you would a noxious disease).

 

http://www.cruisecritic.com/news/news.cfm?ID=6615

[AV8rix]

17% of US adults translates into a huge market opportunity, especially if those 17% feel they are not welcome on other mass market lines (e.g., not able to smoke on their balcony, which many seem to feel is a "must have").

 

Given HAL's inaction to date, it seems their management may well be aware of this and perhaps are even benefiting from it.

 

However, HALs core demographic is no secret -- not to the customers, not to the industry. So why CCL has chosen HAL to be its smoking line is incomprehensible to me. According to the CDC, smokers account for only 8.8% of our group. Don't know why they didn't select their darn "Fun Ships" for the dubious honor. Smoking in their core demographic is 18.7% or 20.1% (not certain of their precise statistical age demographic).

 

I'm not making this up. These statistics are the CDCs published findngs. http://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/adult_data/cig_smoking/

[Lizzie68]

However, HALs core demographic is no secret -- not to the customers, not to the industry. So why CCL has chosen HAL to be its smoking line is incomprehensible to me. According to the CDC, smokers account for only 8.8% of our group. Don't know why they didn't select their darn "Fun Ships" for the dubious honor. Smoking in their core demographic is 18.7% or 20.1% (not certain of their precise statistical age demographic).

 

I'm not making this up. These statistics are the CDCs published findngs. http://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/adult_data/cig_smoking/

 

Probably some bright young thing in the boardroom suggested that as HAL is popularly know to attract the older passengers, they are more likely to be smokers because they knew no better in their youth. But most of us old 'uns had the sense to quit long ago.:D I sometimes wonder if the decision makers have actually ever cruised on a HAL ship.

[cwd79]

Forgive me for being ignorant... But shouldn't the blame be put on Holland America for allowing smoking on the balconies still? Why does the smoker get the blame? They didn't set the policies. I'm a non-smoker but I wouldn't blame a smoker for the policies of a cruise line. I understand we all pay a good deal of money to cruise and we all have choices on which cruise line to book,.. I love cruising, especially with my spouse. But he smokes, so we choose Holland America not only for the wonderful itineraries, amazing cruise, fantastic crew, Neptune Lounge and Pinnacle Grill, but also because of their smoking policies. So if smoking on a balcony is something that causes a huge issue, then don't book on Holland America as there is that risk that one would be next to a smoker. And maybe if enough people take that stand then the smoking policy would change. I realize that is a stretch but who knows. It sounds like the majority of this thread wants the policy changed, so if Holland America corporate sees a benefit in changing the policy then so be it. There is no way to make everyone happy. :)

[Fouremco]

Seems to me this thread has morphed in to a subtle bashing of smokers rather than a discussion of Holland's smoking policy.

 

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

I view it as a bashing of HAL's antiquated policy, not of the smokers who take advantage of it.

[BamaRi1962]

So you think that it makes good business sense for HAL to cater to 1/4 of the population while alienating 3/4 of the population? Somehow I think this will change at some point. I do sympathise with smokers having less and less places where they can freely smoke these days, but just about every major city now has stringent smoking laws. I would like to see HAL abolish balcony smoking but give smokers an indoor area which is well ventilated, as well as the existing smoking area on the aft Lido.

 

It's very good business to include everyone who wishes to cruise. I highly doubt 3/4 of the population feel alienated by smokers. I doubt 3/4 of the population are petulant or puerile in their judgement of others. I believe it is a very small, yet vocal, minority who have chosen to be militantly anti-tobacco. After all, it's vogue at this time to be so, and a small group of the population would rather die than be seen as not in vogue.

 

That politicians are feverishly working to curtail the freedom of some citizens really has nothing to do (yet) with HALs policies. Actually, on the one hand, I appreciate those puritans who have forced me outside....fresh air and sunshine! I am healthier because of it. I haven't been sick in years.

 

It is my hope that HAL does not abolish balcony smoking. Personally, I see it as a silly suggestion. Rather, I'd like for all cruise lines to simple make one side of the ship for smokers, and the other side for others. This would solve the bulk of issue.

[LMaxwell]

17% of US adults translates into a huge market opportunity, especially if those 17% feel they are not welcome on other mass market lines (e.g., not able to smoke on their balcony, which many seem to feel is a "must have").

 

Given HAL's inaction to date, it seems their management may well be aware of this and perhaps are even benefiting from it.

 

 

1 out of 6 is not the same as the claim of 1 out of 4. And as has been discussed, the higher up the socioeconomic ladder you go, the lower the percentage of smokers. Perhaps 1 out of 10 for HAL clientele.

 

According to CC, NCL is not removing casino smoking any time soon . They are quarantining it (as you would a noxious disease).

 

http://www.cruisecritic.com/news/news.cfm?ID=6615

 

That''s fine by me. If smoking is relegated to an enclosed room with its own air venting system I don't have a problem with that. As far as I am concerned, as a non-smoker, it effectively eliminated interior smoking. As a non-smoker I'm happy with that compromise. Are smokers going to be happy to sit in a plastic box filled with smoke? I don't know. But that's what thats the cards they have been dealt, pun intended.

Edited October 29, 2015 by LMaxwell

[Blue Mudshark]

To some, it might appear that the thread has morphed into not-subtle-at-all bashing of people who don't like tobacco smoke on their balconies ("Pleasure Police", "Moral Police", and the always-popular "PC"). It does go both ways.

And more recently, "pious, holier-than-thou busybody".