Help Understanding Jones Act

[Cruisin' Chick]

If you leave the ship at another US port before returning to the original port, that would be a violation of the PVSA indeed. However it is the ship that gets fined, not the departing passenger. Because you signed the cruise contract, they are able to collect the money from you, usually by zapping your credit card. I'm sure if you had elected a cash account with the ship and bailed out with a zero balance, they then could bill you. If you did not pay up I would think they could unfriend you and place you on their no sail list!

 

And from what I understand' date=' if you get off the ship with the intention of not returning (a deliberate violation of the PVSA), you may end up in more trouble than just being fined. The cruise line might ban you for future cruises.

 

I just wonder if someone intends to do this, do they just bring a back pack's worth of clothing?[/quote']

 

As I said, the cruise line feels you didn't intentionally return to the ship, it will be considered pretty serious. You will probably not only just have to pay the fine, you can end up on their "no cruise" llist. A family emergency is one thing, but to cut short the cruise in a way that violates a law, that's another.

[Pam in CA]

Sorry, but this is not entirely correct. A one-way from the west coast to Hawaii would have to stop in a distant foreign port, not just Ensenada. that is why most of the Hawaii cruises are round trips, not one ways.

One-ways between FLL and CA stop in Aruba which is considered a "far" foreign port since it's just off the coast of South America. Any HI cruise that embarks/disembarks at different ports must go to a far foreign port. The closest to HI is Fanning Island in the South Pacific. NCL has a US-registered ship which is exempt from the PVSA. However, it is subject to all US laws and regulations as well as US minimum wages, withholding taxes, etc. which increases the operating costs significantly. That's why the other US-registered NCL ships were re-registered elsewhere.

[AE_Collector]

Sorry, but this is not entirely correct. A one-way from the west coast to Hawaii would have to stop in a distant foreign port, not Ensenada. That is why most of the Hawaii cruises are round trips, not one ways.

 

Yes, you are correct about West Coast and Hawaii. Lost my mind for a moment. One ways have to START or END in a foreign country (Ensenada or Vancouver typically), not just stop at one.

 

I would MUCH RATHER do a Hawaii one way and stay for awhile instead of 15 days for 4 port days on the round trips. Fortunately we've had several one way Hawaii opportunities from/to Vancouver lately! And the one way repositions go for a fraction of the cost of the roundtrips!

 

Terry

Edited November 18, 2014 by AE_Collector

[disneydiane61]

Thanks for all the info, posts, comments and ideas. I think we will do the LA to Vancouver and the train down to Seattle and do a Seattle round trip.

[KruzeKrazy!]

Pardon my ignorance but how is the PVSA supposed to protect U.S. shipping? Wouldn't keeping ships WITHIN the U.S. be more protective of keeping commerce in the U.S. than requiring ships to give business to a foreign port?

[AE_Collector]

Thanks for all the info, posts, comments and ideas. I think we will do the LA to Vancouver and the train down to Seattle and do a Seattle round trip.

 

Be sure to do some research into the different route that the cruise ships use for the Vancouver Alaska roundtrips versus Seattle Alaska roundtrips. To me it seems to bad to miss the Vancouver routing when you initially arrived at Vancouver anyway.

 

Due to the PVSA you also have the option of doing one way Alaska cruises from Vancouver where as you cant do them from Seattle. This means that if you have the time you can do a 14 day B2B Alaska cruise roundtrip from/to Vancouver and then you could take the train all the way back to California.

 

Terry

Edited November 18, 2014 by AE_Collector

[Sanjam cruisers]

Hi Kruzekrazy

If you look at the date the U.S. Government introduced this act it had everything to do with protecting US Merchant Shipping.

In 1886 we the British had the biggest Merchant Navy in the world, closely followed by other European Nations such as the Dutch, Swedish etc, this Act stopped these Non American companies coming over and taking Coastal Shipping business away from The American Shipping Companies.The US Government ensured that passengers/cargo from one U.S. port intended for another US port was carried in US built, US Flagged and US crewed ships. Bearing in mind this was in the days before aircraft and also when Transcontinental Railways in the US were few, there was a lot of business in shipping. A very sensible Act by the U.S. Legislatures, don't you think.

Happy cruising to you.

[caribill]

Pardon my ignorance but how is the PVSA supposed to protect U.S. shipping? Wouldn't keeping ships WITHIN the U.S. be more protective of keeping commerce in the U.S. than requiring ships to give business to a foreign port?

 

PVSA applies to passenger transportation.

 

It encourages ships to be USA built and USA flagged. Then they can bring passengers from any USA port to any other USA port.

 

It also applies to ferries and airlines and Mississippi River cruising.

[Aquahound]

or you could skip all the nonsense and pay the $300- fine... right?

 

Not a good idea. The cruise lines really frown on this, especially since the ship's Master gets a Jones Act (yes, I said that right) mark on his immigration record. In my job, I work a lot with the cruise industry and I've had ship's Captains tell me they get questioned by CBP when flying into the U.S., having to explain their Jones Act marks on their immigration records.

 

To avoid the questions...I do not know why the mark is Jones Act instead of PVSA.

 

Either way, it is not the individual who gets fined by the government. It's the carrier...and too many of these fines do not end well with the carrier. If you want to remain a Princess cruiser, or any other Carnival Corp ship for that matter, this is not a practice to make a habit of.

[Busy Mum]

Does the Jones Act only affect US citizens - should us foreigners 'from Australia' need to be concerned with this law??

 

Looking at cruising from Sydney all the way to Vancouver then doing an Inside Passage cruise and possibly ending up back in Vancouver, before heading home via Hawaii - do I need to be concerned?

 

Thanks for your guidance.

 

Vicki.

[Shmoo here]

Does the Jones Act only affect US citizens - should us foreigners 'from Australia' need to be concerned with this law??

 

Looking at cruising from Sydney all the way to Vancouver then doing an Inside Passage cruise and possibly ending up back in Vancouver, before heading home via Hawaii - do I need to be concerned?

 

Thanks for your guidance.

 

Vicki.

 

The PVSA effects all passengers, regardless of nationality. The law states that no non-US flagged ship can transport passengers from one US port to a different US port without stopping in a distant foreign port.

 

You cruise(s) won't be violating the PVSA, as you will be going from a foreign port and ending in a foreign port. Basically, a big round trip cruise. The PVSA looks at where each passenger actually embarked and debarked on the ship. Doesn't matter if it's 1 cruise or 5 cruises in succession. As long as it's on the same ship, it only matters where a passenger got on and gets off.

Edited November 18, 2014 by Shmoo here

[Busy Mum]

The PVSA effects all passengers, regardless of nationality. The law states that no non-US flagged ship can transport passengers from one US port to a different US port without stopping in a distant foreign port.

 

You cruise(s) won't be violating the PVSA, as you will be going from a foreign port and ending in a foreign port. Basically, a big round trip cruise. The PVSA looks at where each passenger actually embarked and debarked on the ship. Doesn't matter if it's 1 cruise or 5 cruises in succession. As long as it's on the same ship, it only matters where a passenger got on and gets off.

 

Oh, please pardon my ignorance - this is what we are looking at doing:

 

 

• Cruise from Sydney to Vancouver on Celebrity Solstice - a B2B.
  

 

• Having a couple of days in Vancouver then getting on a Princess Ship and doing the Inside passage. Hopefully doing a return cruise back to Vancouver. Then flying to Hawaii for a couple of days then heading back to Australia.
  

 

Can you please advise me if I can do legally do this - as stated above I will be changing cruise lines, probably!!

 

Thanks again for your help.

 

Vicki.:)

[Shmoo here]

Oh, please pardon my ignorance - this is what we are looking at doing:

 

 

• Cruise from Sydney to Vancouver on Celebrity Solstice - a B2B.
  

 

• Having a couple of days in Vancouver then getting on a Princess Ship and doing the Inside passage. Hopefully doing a return cruise back to Vancouver. Then flying to Hawaii for a couple of days then heading back to Australia.
  

 

Can you please advise me if I can do legally do this - as stated above I will be changing cruise lines, probably!!

 

Thanks again for your help.

 

Vicki.:)

 

As I said, the PVSA only comes into play if the cruise begins and ends in a two different US ports on the same ship. So your cruise(s) won't even show up on the PVSA radar.

Edited November 19, 2014 by Shmoo here

[Busy Mum]

Thank you so much for your help, it's very much appreciated.

 

Vicki.

[paul929207]

Thank you so much for your help, it's very much appreciated.

 

Vicki.

If your cruise begins and/or ends in a non-US port, the PVSA doses not apply.

 

If your cruise begins and ends in the same US port, if must call on at least one non-US port.

 

If it starts in one US port and ends in another, it must call on a "distant" non-US port. "Distant" include Aruba, Bonaire, Curacao, South America and Fanning Island and any other port further from the US. The ABC Islands and Cartegena, Colombia are frequent stops on the full transit Panama canal cruises from a US port to another. Fanning Island is 1000 or so miles beyond Hawaii and was used to allow one-way trips from the west coast to Hawaii.

[KruzeKrazy!]

Sanjam cruisers and Caribill -

 

Thank you for the brief education. Very helpful to those of us this is new to.

[GUT2407]

Oh, please pardon my ignorance - this is what we are looking at doing:

 

 

• Cruise from Sydney to Vancouver on Celebrity Solstice - a B2B.
  

 

• Having a couple of days in Vancouver then getting on a Princess Ship and doing the Inside passage. Hopefully doing a return cruise back to Vancouver. Then flying to Hawaii for a couple of days then heading back to Australia.
  

 

Can you please advise me if I can do legally do this - as stated above I will be changing cruise lines, probably!!

 

Thanks again for your help.

 

Vicki.:)

 

As I said, the PVSA only comes into play if the cruise begins and ends in a two different US ports on the same ship. So your cruise(s) won't even show up on the PVSA radar.

 

Not only that Vancouver isn't in the US of A.

Edited November 19, 2014 by GUT2407

[Sanjam cruisers]

Hi Kruzekrazy

No problem, I had an excellent holiday in your city last year, what a place.

[Dorset Cruiser]

The Jones Act has little to do with this as it applies to cabotage, commercial shipping and crew members.

 

What you are referring to is the Passenger Vessel Services Act. Here's a brief summary:

 

1. If you embark and disembark at the same US port, regardless of how many B2Bs, you must have gone to a NEAR foreign port. Near is defined as North America, Central America and the Caribbean.

 

2. If you embark at one US port and disembark at a different US port, regardless of how many B2Bs, you must have gone to a FAR foreign port. The closest "far" foreign ports to the US are South America and Aruba.

 

So even though your cruise goes to Vancouver, it's illegal unless the itinerary includes a stop in South America.

 

You can change ships or stay overnight in a hotel in Vancouver to avoid violating the PVSA. The fine is $300 and any ship or cruise line cannot knowingly allow you to board and violate the PVSA.

 

Am I missing something? On our 2010 Alaska cruise, we got on in Seattle and got off in Seattle. Did not go to any foreign ports except Victoria BC.

 

 

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[BillB48]

Am I missing something? On our 2010 Alaska cruise, we got on in Seattle and got off in Seattle. Did not go to any foreign ports except Victoria BC.

 

 

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Your 2010 cruise was perfectly legal, Victoria is a near foreign port and satisfies the PVSA in regard to closed loop cruises that originate in the US. I think what you quoted was in reference to the OP whose first cruise started in LA and ended in Vancouver. The second leg of what was going to be a B2B started in Vancouver and ended in Seattle. By linking those two cruises together created transportation between two US ports without a call at a distant foreign port.

[Dorset Cruiser]

Your 2010 cruise was perfectly legal, Victoria is a near foreign port and satisfies the PVSA in regard to closed loop cruises that originate in the US. I think what you quoted was in reference to the OP whose first cruise started in LA and ended in Vancouver. The second leg of what was going to be a B2B started in Vancouver and ended in Seattle. By linking those two cruises together created transportation between two US ports without a call at a distant foreign port.

 

Thanks, that explains it. What threw me was the term North America, did not realise that included Canada 😀

 

 

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[whitshel]

The whole thing is kinda like the airlines, you cant take a British Airways jet from L.A. to New York.

 

All, well most all ships are flagged from a foreign country to bypass the U.S. labor laws so these foreign ships (Cruise ships included) can't transport you from one U.S. city to another U.S. city, just like a foreign airline...Same concept :)

[KruzeKrazy!]

whitshel -

 

Very helpful explanation and example .

 

Thanks!

[Shmoo here]

The whole thing is kinda like the airlines, you cant take a British Airways jet from L.A. to New York.

 

All, well most all ships are flagged from a foreign country to bypass the U.S. labor laws so these foreign ships (Cruise ships included) can't transport you from one U.S. city to another U.S. city, just like a foreign airline...Same concept :)

 

Well, it really is that the airline regulations are like the PVSA (since the PVSA was first). And it's really some other law (sorry, I can't remember which), but it's quite similar to the PVSA requirements.