Mayan ruins

[DeanoNorthPerth]

Hello all. We have just booked the Regatta's Mayan & Islands cruise for March 28-

 

http://www.oceaniacruises.com/findcruise/caribbean/REG150328/default.aspx

 

We are from Australia and have not cruised the western Caribbean before so I was wondering, as we have been to Machu Picchu are we likely to be underwhelmed visiting the Mayan ruins in this area? They are, I think, much smaller than MP so should we instead look at other types of day tours?

 

Thanks in advance.

[hypercafe]

We went on the Mayan Mystery trip last year. Yes, they are small and I would guess can not compare to MP. I found lots of pictures and info on the net so you can be your own judge.

[cbb]

I don't know what to tell you....Machu Picchu is from the Incan Empire in the Andes and Mayan was in Mexico; 2 different empires.

 

Since you're from Australia, it might be cool for you to learn about a people and empire that is totally different from the other.

 

Incan Empire depended upon the potato which the Spanish brought back to Europe and the Mayan depended upon corn which the Spanish also took back.

 

Mayan also gave us chocolate but it was not sweetened; you all can decide which European country improved it, Belgium, Switzerland, Holland?

 

History lesson over!!!!!

[MVPinBoynton]

I guess that is kind of like saying that since I have been to Pompeii, is there any reason to go to Ephesus. I haven't been to MP; but from the pics I have seen, it is quite different from the Mayan ruins in central America. We have been to Chichen Itza, but were looking forward to seeing the Mayan ruins of Altun Ha and Chacchoben. They were by no means as grand as Chichen Itza; but they were still most enjoyable to visit, especially if you have a good guide.

[Floridiana]

We have been to both. Machu Pichu is unsurpassed, but the Mayan ruins were a great place as well. I went on this cruise specifically for the Mayan ruins.

 

We booked the Tikal tour in Guatemala. We loved the entire experience and thought it was well worth the expense. The getting there is an adventure in its own right because we left the ship early in the morning on a rickety bus through heavy local traffic on our way to an almost empty military base where two charter planes were waiting. They were small enough for passengers to sit behind the pilots. The flight was ~ 30 - 45 minutes.

 

The ruins of Tikal are in the jungle out of which the three very steep highest pyramids stick. One of them has a wooden staircase so we could climb it. It's a bit nerve-racking to step out onto the very narrow front of the highest pyramid. Great views, great experience. The Central Plaza is well excavated and gives a good impression of how this city in the jungle must have looked like.

 

Our second 'adventure' was in Belize with a visit to the Lamanai ruins. They are on a river which is your access point. These ruins are also in the jungle, a little less impressive than Tikal, but you can climb one pyramid directly from the front. AND the forest is inhabited by howler monkeys that made racket when they saw us. Their howl carries far in the jungle and here, they were sitting right above us in the trees. I loved this excursion!

 

The guides in Tikal and Lamanai were excellent!

 

We did a short excursion in Costa Maya, Mexico, to the Chacchoben ruins that were not worth it imho after Lamanai and Tikal. The ship offered a longer excursion to more impressive ruins that we should have taken.

 

I could not care less about the other stops on this cruise, but some people are water babies and love the beaches.

Edited January 5, 2015 by Floridiana

[Mura]

On an independent trip to Belize we spent three days at Tikal which was a marvelous experience. The motel was quite pleasant and the nearby restaurants very satisfactory. But the best part was being able to tour the ruins without all the day trippers.

 

Tikal is not MP but it's very impressive in its own right.

 

Mura

[Wendy The Wanderer]

I haven't been to Machu Picchu, and nor will I, probably. I thought Lamanai was really well worth it--Tikal involves a plane trip from most cruise stops, so quite an expensive excursion. Lamanai is up a river, and the river trip is interesting too, I thought. If you'll be on the Mayan Riviera, there are other opportunities to see Mayan sites as well.

[Floridiana]

Yes, Tikal is inland and can only be reached by bus or plane, bus only with more time than a cruise stop. A land trip is the preferred method, but we knew that we would not spend more time in Guatemala and Belize.

 

If you have a chance, go to the town of Antigua in Guatemala. It's inland on the Pacific side.

[Hambagahle]

Our tour (normal Oceania tour) to Lamanai was outstanding. No - I haven't been to MP because I got food poisoning very badly in Lima and was unable to travel for 48 hours so I missed the tour we had arranged. But we did do a little sightseeing around Cusco - Sacred Valley etc. Not the same but not bad.

 

Lamanai - the boat ride alone is worth it. We had a skipper who could spot tiny things and brought the boat up close so we could see them. Nesting baby bats, for example. Our guide was fabulous. He really knew his history and brought the ruins to life. It was a day I shall never forget. I find that the eastern side of the isthmus is so different from the west and learning more about it was such a pleasure. Do go!

[no fuss travel]

I have been to both and they are totally different. Also, two totally different cultures so you will be able to see the difference and compare. If you are into historical ruins, then I would definitely say go.

[azam71209]

We've been to Chichen Itza, Tulum, Lamanai, and a number of smaller ruins in Guatemala, also Machu Picchu.

 

I agree with others, it's apples and oranges. Mayan culture and history is quite different from that of the Inca in Peru. Machu Picchu is at a very high altitude, with limited vegetation, llamas,most of the Mayan ruins are in the jungle, with monkeys and tropical birds. Only real similarity is that both were conquered by the Spanish.

 

The indigenous people in both areas have very interesting cultures, dress and languages. Quiche in Peru and 21 different Mayan languages in Guatemala. The Aztec culture in Mexico is different from both.

 

Ship tours to Chichen Itza and Tikal are expensive, very long and won't give you enough time to really enjoy the experience, especially during the heat of the day with throngs of tourists. We really enjoyed Lamanai, smaller, more accessible from Belize, very informative guide, trip along the river also very interesting.

 

Mary

[Floridiana]

Chichen Itza was not accessible from our cruise. :( I wasn't there, but it is said to be very crowded during the day.

 

Tikal was crowded when we were there, mainly by Guatemalans since they did not have to pay that week. I imagined old time costumes and the place alive with the original inhabitants. :)

 

There were also two groups of 'new age' people because we were nearing the end of the Mayan calendar.

 

Lamanai had no tourists except our boats which arrived one after the other, not at the same time, so we could walk through the jungle with the guide only. Each time a new boat landed and we moved on further into the site, the howling in the first court started again, an eerie experience. Did anybody else hear them?

Edited January 5, 2015 by Floridiana

[Paulchili]

Can I be brutally honest here (and I am sure I will be flamed for it). :D

I am not very impressed with either the Mayan nor the Aztec or Inca civilizations. They are of interest, of course, but pale in comparison to the Egyptians and Greeks (just to name a few civilizations) that preceded them by many centuries. This is not to dismiss the ancient Chinese or Indian subcontinent civilizations (both preceding the native Americans).

The pyramids of Giza are far more impressive in size, complexity of design and difficulty of construction. Yet they date from around 2500 BCE – compared to the Inca/Aztec/Maya temples from 2nd to 9th CE (Machu Picchu is even later – from 15th century).

The Egyptian Temples (Karnak, Luxor, Abu Simbel) are from around 1500 BCE.

Not to mention the fact that the Egyptians already had the hieroglyphs which help us understand in great detail much about their civilization. These were followed by the old and new Testaments of the Hebrews and early Christians. The Incas/Aztecs/Maya give us no such written insight into their culture, even though they came much later. I have heard that they had written language which was destroyed by Spanish but find it difficult to believe that nothing would have survived on paper or stone. (ala Dead Sea scrolls).

The Greeks were writing their tragedies/comedies in 5th century BCE and their philosophy even earlier (in 6th century BCE). Both of these form the basis of our western philosophies and civilization today. Not to mention their classic architecture and sculptures, many of which survive till today (The Parthenon dates from 5th century BCE!).

So while these Inca/Maya temples are interesting and I take them for what they are, I cannot help but compare them to what the rest of the world was doing at that time (or especially what it had done many centuries before that time).

JMO

Edited January 5, 2015 by Paulchili

[Paulchili]

I guess that in addition to being brutally honest, I am also politically incorrect in my statements - but, so be it :)

After having seen the Pergamon Altar from 2nd century BCE (currently in Berlin) with its intricate frieze in high relief, I have trouble paying too much respect to the Mayan temples constructed a millennium later.

I've been to M.P. twice and given the chance, I'd go and admire it again. But I would keep it in proper prospective.

To each their own.

Edited January 6, 2015 by Paulchili

[Mura]

Paul, of course you have a right to your opinion! I would never say you don't.

 

But having seen the glories of the western world (I mean, Greek, Roman, etc.) and of the New World, I appreciate each for what they are. The Mayan sites I find extremely impressive, particularly in terms of astronomy. The Egyptians have their temples, the Mayans have their observatories.

 

I could never say one is better than the other.

 

Mura

[rubysue]

I guess that in addition to being brutally honest, I am also politically incorrect in my statements - but, so be it :)

After having seen the Pergamon Altar from 2nd century BCE (currently in Berlin) with its intricate frieze in high relief, I have trouble paying too much respect to the Mayan temples constructed a millennium later.

I've been to M.P. twice and given the chance, I'd go and admire it again. But I would keep it in proper prospective.

To each their own.

 

I agree with you! We are doing a Lima to New York cruise in 2016 on Marina and will do the obligatory MP trip to say we've been there (challenging for someone who is partially disabled). I do look forward to seeing this legendary place and would like to see others in this part of the world (I have seen many Aztec ruins, by the way). But my heart goes back to places in the Med, including Corinth, Athens, Ephesus, Rome, Sicily and others in the "cradle of civilization". I guess I'm not properly trained in diversity. I don't have Mayan, Incan or Aztecan ancestry (have been checked with 23andMe), so I tend to gravitate to the foundations in western Eurasia.

[Paulchili]

I agree with you! We are doing a Lima to New York cruise in 2016 on Marina and will do the obligatory MP trip to say we've been there (challenging for someone who is partially disabled). I do look forward to seeing this legendary place and would like to see others in this part of the world (I have seen many Aztec ruins, by the way). But my heart goes back to places in the Med, including Corinth, Athens, Ephesus, Rome, Sicily and others in the "cradle of civilization". I guess I'm not properly trained in diversity. I don't have Mayan, Incan or Aztecan ancestry (have been checked with 23andMe), so I tend to gravitate to the foundations in western Eurasia.

 

I am certain that you will enjoy MP - the masonry work and the setting itself are spectacular (especially so in good weather).

Enjoy your cruise.

[Wendy The Wanderer]

With all due respect, Paul, there are lots of wonderful sights in the world to see, not all equally old. Should I not enjoy the Parthenon because the civilization that built it was not as old as the one that built Mycenae?

 

To me, they are all amazingly enticing and fascinating, the ancient places that I have the privilege of visiting. (I missed Angkor Wat this last year due to illness, and won't ever go to MP because of the altitude.)

 

And of course, the Mayan civilization, I believe, is much older than the Incan or Aztec, from about the middle of the Roman Empire period. So I guess that means that the Roman ruins aren't worth seeing.

[Paulchili]

Wendy,

I think you are missing my point (or that I have not expressed myself clearly).

I did not mean to imply that Incan/Mayan temples are not worth seeing nor that only the oldest ruins are worth seeing.

I simply meant to say that, IMO, the native American civilization lagged behind that of Euroasian. At the time of pyramids, the Incas/Mayans have done nothing (as far as we can tell - there is nothing left for us to see from that period); when the Greeks were writing philosophy and tragedies, the Incas/Mayans didn't even have a writen language - or ever, for that matter (as far as we know).

The native Americans' civilization is of historical interest and well worth exploring and appreciating for its own merrits but it clearly, IMO, lagged severly behind their counterparts in other parts of the world.

products of all civilizations are to be appreciated and admired for their own sake but they have to be taken in context of the larger picture and compared to accomplishmets of others at the same time in history (or before)

I think this is all I want to say on this subject,

Edited January 6, 2015 by Paulchili

[Floridiana]

All monuments of ancient and modern civilizations are interesting to me.

[potterhill]

We went to Lamanai in November. We enjoyed it despite the pouring rain on the boat trip there. The howler monkeys were cool and we saw lots of wildlife and birds. A few of us climbed up the main temple. Fantastic view from there! The highlight, other than the climb, was the meal our guide's mother had prepared for us..... Yes, we had booked a private tour.

 

Mo

 

 

Sent using the Cruise Critic forums app

Edited January 6, 2015 by potterhill

[Toranut97]

Can I be brutally honest here (and I am sure I will be flamed for it). :D

I am not very impressed with either the Mayan nor the Aztec or Inca civilizations. They are of interest, of course, but pale in comparison to the Egyptians and Greeks (just to name a few civilizations) that preceded them by many centuries. This is not to dismiss the ancient Chinese or Indian subcontinent civilizations (both preceding the native Americans).

The pyramids of Giza are far more impressive in size, complexity of design and difficulty of construction. Yet they date from around 2500 BCE – compared to the Inca/Aztec/Maya temples from 2nd to 9th CE (Machu Picchu is even later – from 15th century).

The Egyptian Temples (Karnak, Luxor, Abu Simbel) are from around 1500 BCE.

Not to mention the fact that the Egyptians already had the hieroglyphs which help us understand in great detail much about their civilization. These were followed by the old and new Testaments of the Hebrews and early Christians. The Incas/Aztecs/Maya give us no such written insight into their culture, even though they came much later. I have heard that they had written language which was destroyed by Spanish but find it difficult to believe that nothing would have survived on paper or stone. (ala Dead Sea scrolls).

The Greeks were writing their tragedies/comedies in 5th century BCE and their philosophy even earlier (in 6th century BCE). Both of these form the basis of our western philosophies and civilization today. Not to mention their classic architecture and sculptures, many of which survive till today (The Parthenon dates from 5th century BCE!).

So while these Inca/Maya temples are interesting and I take them for what they are, I cannot help but compare them to what the rest of the world was doing at that time (or especially what it had done many centuries before that time).

JMO

 

The Mayans did use a system of glyphs, which European explorers referred to as "hieroglyphs." These date to the 3rd century BCE. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maya_script

 

Each person has to determine what interests them, and their reasons for respecting/disrespecting entire civilizations. To each his/her own.

[Paulchili]

The Mayans did use a system of glyphs, which European explorers referred to as "hieroglyphs." These date to the 3rd century BCE. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maya_script

 

Each person has to determine what interests them, and their reasons for respecting/disrespecting entire civilizations. To each his/her own.

 

Toranut97,

Thank you for pointing this out to me as I am happy to learn new things. I must say that I do not remember ever seeing these glyphs on any of the Mayan ruins I have visited but they obviously do exist.

That information notwithstanding, it remains a fact that by the time these made an appearance, the Egyptian hieroglyphs were 3 millennia old. Three millennia may be a blink of an eye in the history of the Universe but it is an awfully long time in the history of our human civilization. Also, by the 3rd century BCE, when the Mayan glyphs made an appearance, Homer’s Iliad and Odyssey were already 500 years old (and quite different in form from the Mayan glyphs).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iliad

I do not disrespect the Mayan civilization - I just respect some others a little more (for reasons of my own). I must say that I'd take a classic Greek/Roman sculpture (or the 3,300 year old Nefertiti bust) over a Pre-Columbian art any day :D

Indeed, to each his/her own.

Edited January 7, 2015 by Paulchili

[roothy123]

I have not been to Peru (would love to go, however), but I enjoyed both Chacchoben and Lamanai. In Belize City, you need to do SOMETHING other than walk around the port, as it's pretty poor and not too interesting for tourists. If I remember correctly Lamanai was the excursion I took in Belize City - the one that went down the river. The river trip was fun but not terribly interesting in terms of viewing things (just one or two monkeys, and then some wading birds you can easily see in Florida). Of course, we did see Mennonite boys fishing in a canoe, and a few other natives, which was interesting from a cultural standpoint. And, I did enjoy seeing the ruins, with the huge masks being quite interesting. That excursion actually sold out by the time I tried to get on it, but perhaps only because there was a large organized group on board. Luckily, however, Oceania was able to get me a spot the day before the excursion. Belize City and the Belize tendering process was a mess, with the Belize tourist people doing their best to make things worse. (Hard to explain, so I'll leave it at that.) Other than that, it was an enjoyable day and I was glad I was able to see Lamanai.

 

Chacchoben from Costa Maya wasn't quite as rewarding, but I did feel it was a worthwhile excursion. There didn't seem to be much else in terms of places to visit around Costa Maya, but I did like the immediate area of where we docked at Costa Maya more than I imagined I would. There was a beach with local restaurants, a few stores, an internet cafe, and massages and drinks on the beach. You could also rent snorkeling and I forget what else at the far end of the boardwalk. It was a short, inexpensive 2 minute & $5 cab ride from the port. I'm not much of a beach person so I didn't lie on the beach, but I enjoyed walking around by myself, since there weren't many people there. There was also a lighthouse I enjoyed photographing, and I also photographed our ship up the way. There are shops right in port, and performances by dancers in costume, plus I think a little pool.

 

Cruise was Mayan Mystique several years ago on Marina; photos are on my photo site:

http://www.pbase.com/roothy123

Edited January 8, 2015 by roothy123

[DeanoNorthPerth]

Thanks folks for all the feedback and debate. Having read through it all from what I can gather the ruins that most recommend are mostly from ports not on this itinerary. The only exception is Chacchoben from Costa Maya.

 

Suppose I should have asked the question before I booked.