Liberty engine issue

[chengkp75]

All the time on my cruise the Explorer was sailing without the fixipod so if that is what the problem is that shouldn't be a problem, but i think it isn't because then they should be able to continue the cruise.

 

As noted several posts/pages back, the problem was with the turbochargers on two of the diesel engines, and they have been repaired, one when the ship was in FLL last week, and one on the way to Western Carib. Nothing to do with pods.

[Clarea]

As noted several posts/pages back, the problem was with the turbochargers on two of the diesel engines, and they have been repaired, one when the ship was in FLL last week, and one on the way to Western Carib. Nothing to do with pods.

Thanks, I missed that the turbos were the problem. We had talk about it being some sort of electrical thing since there were 3 engines out, but I guess one was out for routine maintenance.

Edited March 5, 2015 by clarea

[chengkp75]

Thanks, I missed that the turbos were the problem. We had talk about it being some sort of electrical thing since there were 3 engines out, but I guess one was out for routine maintenance.

 

Yes, an early report was 3 engines out, but then the onboard poster said that two turbos were delivered, that led me to think they already had one down for overhaul. If so, that's not something you can just stop and get back running. A 12000 hour overhaul removes the cylinder heads, pistons and rods, and liners to inspect, measure, clean, and renew parts, plus overhauling things like turbochargers, coolers, etc. A 12 cylinder engine like Liberty's would take 3-4 weeks to complete. It could also have been down for something else that took the two days to complete from the last port to FLL. It's real odd that two turbos went out at the same time.

[Justmekaren918]

Thanks for the updates, have a safe trip home, JC.

 

I would imagine the 4-day on Liberty starting today could be a little crazy with spring breakers as well.

 

I can't believe we board on Monday. :D

 

Jules have you decided if you will do a semi live report on the trip?

 

Have a great fun cruise!

[Oak Hill Cruisers]

1,500 horsepower per cylinder!

[jules815]

Jules have you decided if you will do a semi live report on the trip?

 

Have a great fun cruise!

 

That's my plan so far! Just trying to figure out the best way. I think I'll probably start the thread here on Saturday night, and then subscribe or whatever it is you do, then I should be able to do easy updates to that from Tapatalk right from my phone or tablet.

[chengkp75]

1,500 horsepower per cylinder!

 

That's actually a pretty medium sized engine. The largest marine engines have a piston 900-980mm in diameter, and generate well over 7000 hp per cylinder. And those engines will have 14 of those cylinders.

[xpcdoojk]

Jules, the internet on the Liberty is painful. Only good for posting on CC,:eek:

 

We docked about 10 minutes after my post. Having an aft cabin makes it hard to see forward.

 

jc

[Ocean Boy]

Jules, the internet on the Liberty is painful. Only good for posting on CC,:eek:

 

We docked about 10 minutes after my post. Having an aft cabin makes it hard to see forward.

 

jc

 

The internet is painfully slow on Indy too.:mad:

[ladysail2]

The internet isn't too bad at 2am, LOL. This 4-day is a lot quieter than the previous 5-nighter. The Spring Breakers were quite a rambunctious crowd. At least 3 wheeled back from port at Cozumel, not quite conscious either. Wouldn't envy that hangover!!

 

The engines seem to be working fine, not that I know much about it, but we're arriving at all the right places on time.

 

Enjoying the nice weather for the next few days till I have to return home to snow :(

[bob brown]

That's actually a pretty medium sized engine. The largest marine engines have a piston 900-980mm in diameter, and generate well over 7000 hp per cylinder. And those engines will have 14 of those cylinders.

 

Which do you think is better to have...one or two of those big engines, or several smaller ones which would add up to the same total power?

 

I would think for redundancy and reliability, it might be better to have more smaller engines. And it would probably be easier to replace the whole or parts of same when necessary, also due to the size difference...

[webteach]

The internet isn't too bad at 2am, LOL. This 4-day is a lot quieter than the previous 5-nighter. The Spring Breakers were quite a rambunctious crowd. At least 3 wheeled back from port at Cozumel, not quite conscious either. Wouldn't envy that hangover!!

 

The engines seem to be working fine, not that I know much about it, but we're arriving at all the right places on time.

 

Enjoying the nice weather for the next few days till I have to return home to snow :(

 

We were on Brilliance parked next to Liberty in Cozumel. Sat on our aft balcony and watched the show. Kids were ridiculous. I felt so sorry for the 2 officers trying to keep them from tumbling off of the dock. As we left I knew LOS would be a little late leaving. We saw kids get OFF and run to Senor Frog's when everyone else was getting on.

Brilliance had very few spring breakers for some reason.

[Ocean Boy]

We were on Brilliance parked next to Liberty in Cozumel. Sat on our aft balcony and watched the show. Kids were ridiculous. I felt so sorry for the 2 officers trying to keep them from tumbling off of the dock. As we left I knew LOS would be a little late leaving. We saw kids get OFF and run to Senor Frog's when everyone else was getting on.

Brilliance had very few spring breakers for some reason.

 

Indy has no spring breakers. It has been a very quiet and peaceful cruise. We have not even had any stragglers. We left every port on time not having to wait for anyone. We even pulled out of Labadee about 10 minutes early.

[chengkp75]

Which do you think is better to have...one or two of those big engines, or several smaller ones which would add up to the same total power?

 

I would think for redundancy and reliability, it might be better to have more smaller engines. And it would probably be easier to replace the whole or parts of same when necessary, also due to the size difference...

 

It's more a difference of usage and configuration.

 

The large slow speed engines (normal full speed is 95-120rpm) are most commonly used connected directly to the propeller shaft. The medium speed engines (400-600 rpm) are more commonly used to drive generators as on cruise ships. The faster turning engine allows a smaller generator for the same power output.

 

The medium speed engines, even the 20,000hp engines on Oasis stand about 12' high, while the large slow speed engines will stand around 30' high. Since you need to have additional space above the engine to allow for maintenance (lifting the cylinders and pistons out by crane) for both type engines, the medium speed is better suited for the engine room layout of the cruise ship where the engine room is only 2 decks high running the length of the ship, while a cargo ship with a slow speed engine has an engine room 5-6 decks high concentrated under the house structure.

 

Again, because the medium speed engines are lower and smaller, they can be spread out along the ship, usually three engines across in two engine rooms. The fact that these engines are driving generators and are not coupled directly to propellers allows this, since the generators are essentially connected together and to the propulsion motors by wiring, not shafting.

 

The beauty of the bigger engines, whether you are talking the 20,000hp medium speed engine on the Oasis, or the 125,000hp slow speed engine on the Emma Maersk, is that the manufacturer knows how big the parts are, and gives you all the special tools and lifting gear required to perform maintenance and overhaul.

 

From a redundancy standpoint, of course more, smaller engines are more desirable. However, the more important factor is fuel efficiency. The large slow speed engine is used strictly for propulsion, and you will have additional engines for generating power for lights, etc. So, this large engine is operated 80% of its time at full load (out at sea) and when the ship is stopped, it is off. Due to the nature of a cruise ship, with its timed arrivals (you don't always travel at full speed), the load required for propulsion varies throughout the operational life of the engine, so being able to have fewer engines at higher loading provides better fuel efficiency.

 

As to reliability, both types are extremely robust. The general rule for the medium speed engines used on cruise ships is that the engines get a complete tear down and overhaul (all the pistons and liners out, bearings renewed, etc.) every 12-14,000 hours. This overhaul will take 2-4 weeks depending on the number of cylinders, so the ship and its itinerary are tailored to allow one engine to be out of service for this period and not interrupt service (no changes to itinerary). So, frequently, all cruise ships will be operating with one engine down for overhaul.

 

The slow speed engine on the other hand, requires overhaul with individual components at more widely varying periods. However, general practice is to overhaul one cylinder every 9-12,000 hours, but a complete single cylinder overhaul can be accomplished in 24 hours while the ship is docked unloading cargo. Most of these ships will go their entire service life of 20+ years without a "complete teardown" type overhaul.

 

The large slow speed engines are generally so reliable that the world has acknowledged, via the IMO regulations and classification society approval (insurance underwriters), that the engine can be the one and only source of propulsion for 90% of the worlds deep sea ships.

 

Apologize for the length of the answer. :o

[magwin]

...

Apologize for the length of the answer. :o

 

Not at all, thank you! That was really interesting, and I love facts about these giant ships.

 

I know that this is the fourth ship or something from the RCCL fleet that has had propulsion problems in the last year or so. I don't care. I booked a 10 nighter caribbean in October!:)

[Wildcatfish]

Chengkp75... Really appreciate your posts and your willingness to share your knowledge! While I love all of the amenities aboard a cruise ship, it's nice to get some insight about what goes on below the waterline. Thanks again!

[bob brown]

The large slow speed engines are generally so reliable that the world has acknowledged, via the IMO regulations and classification society approval (insurance underwriters), that the engine can be the one and only source of propulsion for 90% of the worlds deep sea ships.

 

Yes....thanks so much for your very informative explanation! Very interesting.

 

I suppose that the approval of using only the one large engine is sort of analogous to the regulators approval of 'ETOPS' or Extended Twin Engine Operations in the airliner world? That allows more fuel efficient twin-engined airliner's to replace three or four engined airliner's on certain long over-water flights if they meet certain reliability criteria....

[chengkp75]

Yes....thanks so much for your very informative explanation! Very interesting.

 

I suppose that the approval of using only the one large engine is sort of analogous to the regulators approval of 'ETOPS' or Extended Twin Engine Operations in the airliner world? That allows more fuel efficient twin-engined airliner's to replace three or four engined airliner's on certain long over-water flights if they meet certain reliability criteria....

 

Not familiar with ETOPS, but likely similar. Back in the '70's, when most of the world's shipping was powered by diesels, the supertankers were still steam powered. There was a large rash of these tankers losing their boilers and losing propulsion, and running aground. There was a push at the time to require tankers to become twin engine, but instead the ship owners went to diesel power due to its reliability.

[LetsGetWet!]

Yes....thanks so much for your very informative explanation! Very interesting.

 

I suppose that the approval of using only the one large engine is sort of analogous to the regulators approval of 'ETOPS' or Extended Twin Engine Operations in the airliner world? That allows more fuel efficient twin-engined airliner's to replace three or four engined airliner's on certain long over-water flights if they meet certain reliability criteria....

Not familiar with ETOPS, but likely similar. Back in the '70's, when most of the world's shipping was powered by diesels, the supertankers were still steam powered. There was a large rash of these tankers losing their boilers and losing propulsion, and running aground. There was a push at the time to require tankers to become twin engine, but instead the ship owners went to diesel power due to its reliability.

Yep, ETOPS - also sometimes known as "Engines Turn Or Passengers Swim." :)

[xpcdoojk]

We were on Brilliance parked next to Liberty in Cozumel. Sat on our aft balcony and watched the show. Kids were ridiculous. I felt so sorry for the 2 officers trying to keep them from tumbling off of the dock. As we left I knew LOS would be a little late leaving. We saw kids get OFF and run to Senor Frog's when everyone else was getting on.

Brilliance had very few spring breakers for some reason.

 

Yeah, it seems like the University of Florida intentionally booked Liberty of the Seas. Someone said there was a website at the frats and sororities about pack the ship. Which they did...

 

Every meal was a general beyatch session for the non-students.:D They really didn't impact us very much, because I don't drink at the bars, usually at dinner and the diamond lounge. The people who bought the drink package, were generally PO d. Every bar was stacked many people deep most of the time when people were drinking. Including the Crown Viking the first night. After the first night it was the only bar I walked by that would be tolerable to drink at. This made it impossible to have a drink as a diamond at any bar, but it made the diamond lounge extra wonderful on this trip. I personally, overheard, and watched two kids sharing a drink package, they had 3 drinks each at lunch in the MDR the last day....:roll eyes:

 

We spent the last two days in the FLL/MIA area, drove thru Ocean Drive last night. It seems to be stuck in time, as nothing looked different. We haven't sailed out of Miami for a long long time, so it was kind of fun to look at it. It is interesting how small the ships at Miami were compared to Port Everglades.

 

Home again, temps in the 50s and highs all this week around 60. So, we picked the perfect two weeks to be in Florida/Caribbean.

 

jc

[A&L_Ont]

Yeah, it seems like the University of Florida intentionally booked Liberty of the Seas. Someone said there was a website at the frats and sororities about pack the ship. Which they did...

 

Every meal was a general beyatch session for the non-students.:D They really didn't impact us very much, because I don't drink at the bars, usually at dinner and the diamond lounge. The people who bought the drink package, were generally PO d. Every bar was stacked many people deep most of the time when people were drinking. Including the Crown Viking the first night. After the first night it was the only bar I walked by that would be tolerable to drink at. This made it impossible to have a drink as a diamond at any bar, but it made the diamond lounge extra wonderful on this trip. I personally, overheard, and watched two kids sharing a drink package, they had 3 drinks each at lunch in the MDR the last day....:roll eyes:

 

We spent the last two days in the FLL/MIA area, drove thru Ocean Drive last night. It seems to be stuck in time, as nothing looked different. We haven't sailed out of Miami for a long long time, so it was kind of fun to look at it. It is interesting how small the ships at Miami were compared to Port Everglades.

 

Home again, temps in the 50s and highs all this week around 60. So, we picked the perfect two weeks to be in Florida/Caribbean.

 

jc

 

JC, glad to made it home. We boarded Allure and guess what. I met Pezz. He is here for the week. Cool guy and lots of fun. I'd say he likes my riding style as he is very complimentary. I told him that you would say hello for sure.

 

We rode for 1.5 hours this afternoon. I had great runs. There are three of us with our own boards. There is even a 86 year old man riding too, it is crazy. He rides off, and only carves but he is 86. :eek:

[xpcdoojk]

How awesome cool is that!

 

Pezz's wife and friends were on the Oasis last week.

 

Now, Pezz is a piece of work, when we were in the diamond lounge, he told my wife and I that he grew up as a jewel thief... I am 99% certain that he is FOS, but he tells a great story, so , I need you to talk to him, and see what FOS stories he tells you.

 

He told me that I carve better than Cody who tied him in the best of the best... trust me, Cody is awesome, and I am not.

 

I struggled all week on the Liberty, my board kept hitting the mat and stopping... it was a struggle. I hoped, I woould board the Liberty and rock but it was a regressive week for me.

 

jc

[ladysail2]

We were on Brilliance parked next to Liberty in Cozumel. Sat on our aft balcony and watched the show. Kids were ridiculous. I felt so sorry for the 2 officers trying to keep them from tumbling off of the dock. As we left I knew LOS would be a little late leaving. We saw kids get OFF and run to Senor Frog's when everyone else was getting on.

Brilliance had very few spring breakers for some reason.

 

 

It was a somewhat quiet cruise till tonight. Now they're yelling halfway down the hallways to each other, loud parties going on, on the balconies. I guess their booze got delived to their cabins :rolleyes: oh well, getting off tomorrow to peace and quiet at home. I'm surprised security isn't after them, some of the screaming makes me wonder if someone is being thrown overboard!

 

The show in Cozumel was something else. It was the unconscious-looking ones being wheeled to the ship in wheelchairs. That happened on the Feb 28 cruise. I couldn't watch the whole event this time due to having to get ready for dinner. We did leave a little late and they were calling for a few fellows. Fun and games, for sure!!

[Ocean Boy]

Home again, temps in the 50s and highs all this week around 60. So, we picked the perfect two weeks to be in Florida/Caribbean.

 

jc

 

We got home last night and I had to snow blow the 10 inches of snow in my driveway that fell here in two different storms last week. It was a good week to be in the Caribbean.

[alfaeric]

From a redundancy standpoint, of course more, smaller engines are more desirable. However, the more important factor is fuel efficiency. The large slow speed engine is used strictly for propulsion, and you will have additional engines for generating power for lights, etc. So, this large engine is operated 80% of its time at full load (out at sea) and when the ship is stopped, it is off. Due to the nature of a cruise ship, with its timed arrivals (you don't always travel at full speed), the load required for propulsion varies throughout the operational life of the engine, so being able to have fewer engines at higher loading provides better fuel efficiency.

 

Apologize for the length of the answer. :o

 

From talking with Oasis/Allure captains and engineering officers- I would think that the engine pattern those two ships set would become more of a norm. With two different sizes of engines, they are able to keep the running engines in their best efficeincy window far easier than if the engines were all the same size.

 

To the point that I would bet that IF (and I know that's a big if) another Vision/Radiance sized ship were made, it would be with 4 engines instead of 3 (and I'm ignoring the fact that Radiance ships run with gas turbines- as it's unlikely that anyone will go down that path again). Two pairs of sizes- thinking that normal operation will be one of each size, high operation will be two large. And low operation can be either one larger or two smaller. Basically, the flexibility that the different sizes pays off quite a bit. Especially over the life of the ship and the cost of bunker fuel.