Sea plane crash in 2015 - NTSB Report is Out

[jakkojakko]

With this tragic loss, do you think that the cruise line would be fined? I would hope that the government would have compassion on the situation. As a cruiser and human I am a little overwhelmed with all the latest tragedies.

 

Why would the cruiseline be fined? They only contracted the airline. Do you expect travelagencies or booking companies to be fined when an airliner crashes?

The responsibility lies with the commander of the aircraft. Only when his/her airline company committed negligence in for instance maintanance , it can be fined.

HAL contracts the airline , that's all.

[ducklite]

Why would the cruiseline be fined? They only contracted the airline. Do you expect travelagencies or booking companies to be fined when an airliner crashes?

 

The responsibility lies with the commander of the aircraft. Only when his/her airline company committed negligence in for instance maintanance , it can be fined.

 

HAL contracts the airline , that's all.

 

 

Yes, no, and maybe.

 

When a company outsources something they offer their employees, guests, or customers, they have the obligation to perform due diligence regarding the safety, reliability, and record of that company.

 

Here is a good analogy: Company ABC hires XYZ caterers to cater a company picnic attended by employees and their families and various customers. They don't verify that XYZ is insured, has the appropriate business licenses, and has a good record with the department of health. Half of the attendees end up with serious food poisoning, three people die.

 

ABC will be investigated by the a health Dept., OSHA, and other authorities, and if it is determined that they didn't properly vet XYZ they can be fined by various government entities. The lawsuits are a different story.

 

While the caterer (flight charter company) holds the majority of the responsibility, if they weren't properly vetted for their safety record in advance, ABC (HAL) could be fined as a result.

 

That said, HAL is a huge company and I can't imagine their risk management division doesn't take great care in choosing vendors with good safety records and all of the appropriate permits, and routinely monitors them for any changes in status.

[Tarpeian Rock]

Why would the cruiseline be fined? They only contracted the airline. Do you expect travelagencies or booking companies to be fined when an airliner crashes?

The responsibility lies with the commander of the aircraft. Only when his/her airline company committed negligence in for instance maintanance , it can be fined.

HAL contracts the airline , that's all.

 

 

You are perhaps unfamiliar with American personal injury and tort law. Holland America will most certainly be included in any legal action. In contracting with the air provider Holland has assumed the responsibility for assuring that its contractors act within all applicable regulations and safety parameters. In the case of an accident involving personal injury or death, everyone in sight is sued, including in this case, I'm sure, Holland, the air carrier, the pilot's estate, the plane manufacturer, and possibly even the agency responsible for providing the weather forecast and even the person who compiled the forecast. Trust me on this.

[CashewNuts]

With this tragic loss, do you think that the cruise line would be fined? I would hope that the government would have compassion on the situation. As a cruiser and human I am a little overwhelmed with all the latest tragedies.

 

I think that this poster is querying the cruise line being fined for contravening the PVSA if it fails to stop in Victoria (the destination outside the USA for this cruise).

[jakkojakko]

I think that this poster is querying the cruise line being fined for contravening the PVSA if it fails to stop in Victoria (the destination outside the USA for this cruise).

 

Ah, offcourse. My apologies.

[Folk Singer]

Thanks for posting this link.

 

Thank you. So sad:(:(:(

[Shmoo here]

I think that this poster is querying the cruise line being fined for contravening the PVSA if it fails to stop in Victoria (the destination outside the USA for this cruise).

 

That's what I was thinking was being asked.

 

In all that I've read about the PVSA, yes, they will be fined. However, it's my understanding that the Westerdam made a Service Call at Victoria (tied up and processed paperwork, but no one got off the ship). If so, there's no fine involved with those passengers onboard the ship.

 

There will be a fine, however, for (sadly) the people who died on the plane, as well as any family members/traveling companions that got off in Ketchikan.

 

That being said, I've also read that in such instances (death, injury) the fine can be appealed and will in most cases be rescinded.

[dhill]

With this tragic loss, do you think that the cruise line would be fined? I would hope that the government would have compassion on the situation. As a cruiser and human I am a little overwhelmed with all the latest tragedies.

 

Really are you serious what the heck did the cruise line do that was wrong.This was a tragic accident But come on we all take chances in life heck we are taking a risk just stepping on the cruise ship.People need to realize that stuff happens and that's just the way life goes some times Fine the cruise line Oh boy:confused:

[Shmoo here]

Really are you serious what the heck did the cruise line do that was wrong.This was a tragic accident But come on we all take chances in life heck we are taking a risk just stepping on the cruise ship.People need to realize that stuff happens and that's just the way life goes some times Fine the cruise line Oh boy:confused:

 

Again, I believe that poster is asking about the PVSA implications. Not fining the cruiseline for the accident.

[poss]

Condolences to all from a Regent cruiser and one who loved that particular excursion. I am hurting with you.

[sail7seas]

I wonder, Lizzie, if there will be any counselling offered to the staff? I know it was a one-week cruise, but it's amazing how quickly you make friends with all those lovely people on board. I'm sure they were devastated by the accident.

 

Our bar steward friend, Leah, (on the Westerdam) called us from Ketchikan before we went to Alaska on the Volendam, and she was planning to visit us here on a Friday. I am hoping now that it will be next week. I will have to ask her if they received counselling, or perhaps the chaplain on board would help with that.

 

I noticed in the article mentioned by pspercy that there is a team on board that will be offering counselling.

 

HAL has a wonderful "Go Team" who are trained to assist with all needs during emergencies that involve many on the ship or 'a few'. I have seen a photo of that group and it includes approximately 45 or so people.... as least it appeared that way if my memory of that photo is correct and all were present. Counseling will be provided for any who need/request it particularly those working Shore Excursions as they may feel the trauma deeply.

 

[Copper10-8]

HAL has a wonderful "Go Team" who are trained to assist with all needs during emergencies that involve many on the ship or 'a few'. I have seen a photo of that group and it includes approximately 45 or so people.... as least it appeared that way if my memory of that photo is correct and all were present. Counseling will be provided for any who need/request it particularly those working Shore Excursions as they may feel the trauma deeply.

 

 

Official name is CARE team; great work by dedicated individuals

[Lizzie68]

Official name is CARE team; great work by dedicated individuals

 

Thanks, Copper. We knew, of course, that they would be taken care of.

[Vict0riann]

Thanks Sail and Copper. Good to know. Do they fly in to the ship that needs them, or do you think they will board in Seattle?

Edited June 27, 2015 by Vict0riann

[Lockport Bob]

Just got off the Westerdam. After news of the fatalities reached the ship, family members were taken off the ship and we departed Ketchikan 6 hours behind schedule. Mood on-board was very somber Thursday night. Most activities canceled except the bars, restaurants & casino being open. Memorial Service was held yesterday on-board. Disappointed people due to Victoria being canceled but people understood and took it in stride. Captain kept the ship informed but only after we sat at the dock about 2 hours past departure time. HAL handled this as best they could.

[Copper10-8]

Thanks Sail and Copper. Good to know. Do they fly in to the ship that needs them, or do you think they will board in Seattle?

 

They do both; fly to the ship and/or, for those ships with Seattle as a seasonal home port, they join there

[geocruiser]

Just got off the Westerdam. After news of the fatalities reached the ship, family members were taken off the ship and we departed Ketchikan 6 hours behind schedule. Mood on-board was very somber Thursday night. Most activities canceled except the bars, restaurants & casino being open. Memorial Service was held yesterday on-board. Disappointed people due to Victoria being canceled but people understood and took it in stride. Captain kept the ship informed but only after we sat at the dock about 2 hours past departure time. HAL handled this as best they could.

 

Thank you for your post. It is so sad.

[SJSULIBRARIAN]

From a Princess cruiser (PSUtraveler) - posted on Princess thread regarding this accident

 

"We took this same excursion a week before the incident; we booked through Princess (we were on the Grand). Sadly the pilot killed in the crash was "our" pilot. He was very friendly and professional. We had a wonderful time. Condolences to the families and friends of all the victims, as well as the other cruise passengers and the community of Ketchikan. "

Edited June 27, 2015 by SJSULIBRARIAN

[vermonter16]

Very sad to be reading all of this. I've done the Misty Fjords and when we went...not with Promech....other pilots radio'd ours to let her know the regular route was too foggy and dangerous. She took a route that extended the trip another 20 minutes. The weather changes so fast. She lived in Ketchikan and flew year round so she knew the weather, etc. Not to make any assumptions but this pilot was not from Alaska according to the article. He did work seasonally....he may not have been as familiar with the weather? I don't know....only speculating. Tragic for everyone involved.

[Vict0riann]

Just got off the Westerdam. After news of the fatalities reached the ship, family members were taken off the ship and we departed Ketchikan 6 hours behind schedule. Mood on-board was very somber Thursday night. Most activities canceled except the bars, restaurants & casino being open. Memorial Service was held yesterday on-board. Disappointed people due to Victoria being canceled but people understood and took it in stride. Captain kept the ship informed but only after we sat at the dock about 2 hours past departure time. HAL handled this as best they could.

 

Thanks for getting in touch and letting us know how it all went. Who was your Captain?

[Shmoo here]

Very sad to be reading all of this. I've done the Misty Fjords and when we went...not with Promech....other pilots radio'd ours to let her know the regular route was too foggy and dangerous. She took a route that extended the trip another 20 minutes. The weather changes so fast. She lived in Ketchikan and flew year round so she knew the weather, etc. Not to make any assumptions but this pilot was not from Alaska according to the article. He did work seasonally....he may not have been as familiar with the weather? I don't know....only speculating. Tragic for everyone involved.

 

Really no way of knowing the answer to any of this. Yes, he currently lives in Idaho (according to news reports), but who's to say he didn't just move there a year or two ago? Possibly he's originally from Alaska? Or how long he's been flying? Did he take it up when he retired? Was it his life's work? Does he only fly in the summertime? How familiar was he with that specific aircraft?

 

It's possible that he spent summers in Alaska and winters in Idaho. Many seasonal workers do. He may have been totally familiar with the weather trends in Ketchikan.

Edited June 27, 2015 by Shmoo here

[PSUtraveler]

Hi, yes, we had Bryan as our pilot. He does not live in Alaska, but I believe he said he had 30 years experience flying small planes (I'm not certain as I was not paying full attention to the conversation at the time). From what I can gather he worked for Talkeetna Air Taxi previously. He seemed very competent.

[cruise pup]

Really no way of knowing the answer to any of this. Yes, he currently lives in Idaho (according to news reports), but who's to say he didn't just move there a year or two ago? Possibly he's originally from Alaska? Or how long he's been flying? Did he take it up when he retired? Was it his life's work? Does he only fly in the summertime? How familiar was he with that specific aircraft?

 

It's possible that he spent summers in Alaska and winters in Idaho. Many seasonal workers do. He may have been totally familiar with the weather trends in Ketchikan.

++++++++

 

After the tourist season, the pilot might have needed to move from Alaska to earn money. I would be shocked if any bush pilot was hired without enough experience flying. Until an investigation is completed we won't know what caused the crash. Too man possibilities to speculate. I think that now is the time just to offer our condolences and prayers to the loved ones of those who lost their lives and not play Nancy Grace and the rest of the media who will make a meal of this tragedy (and get paid handsomely for doing so).

Edited June 27, 2015 by cruise pup

[holacanada]

Stay Strong. My prayers goes to the family.

 

Holacanada

[Lindy59]

Just got off the Westerdam this morning. There was a camera crew looking for guests that would say something about the plane crash. I know those people have a job to do, and I earned a degree in Media ( many years ago)... But good grief, there's a time and a place for everything: what were they expecting us to say about such a tragedy? I was glad to see everyone just kept walking past them.