Buyer beware

[iancal]

Have to agree with L MAxwell. I met someone who was a long time very loyal HAL customer.

 

On their second very disappointing cruise on tbe Veendam he asked repatedly to meet with the hotel manager to discuss no A/c and overflowing plumbing. Not to mention the front desk claiming that this was a new occurrence on the ship.

 

The Hotel Director repeatedly refused to meet with him. Apparently others had the same issue.

 

He is no longer a HAL customer.

[LMaxwell]

Some here really have no idea about the complexity and amount of work a HD has on a regular sailing. It is very much a Top Management role, and if he/she would have to be disturbed to smooth talk any complaining passenger, the HD would not be able to do his regular tasks and thus creating more complaints instead of solving operational issues and running a smooth department in sometimes challenging conditions ( like a pre-drydock sailing where Seattle dictates what is done)...

And again,this "firing" threat comes from people who hopefully have never managed people, let alone potentially lead them in a "executive position".

I've managed quite a few people and if a customer of mine wanted to speak to the boss I made myself available to address their concerns. Who are any of us to dismiss someone's concerns as invalid or not worthy of a superiors time.

 

 

A HD hiding from a guest is totally inexcusable. Respect your customer enough to give them face time. LISTEN to your paying customer, communicate that you understand the issue, delegate resolution to the proper person or department. Follow up afterwards to ensure satisfaction. These are basics and this is not a difficult concept. To avoid customers in a hospitality industry, well, I would hope behind those closed doors you are working on your resume.

[SilvertoGold]

Some here really have no idea about the complexity and amount of work a HD has on a regular sailing. It is very much a Top Management role, and if he/she would have to be disturbed to smooth talk any complaining passenger, the HD would not be able to do his regular tasks and thus creating more complaints instead of solving operational issues and running a smooth department in sometimes challenging conditions ( like a pre-drydock sailing where Seattle dictates what is done)...

And again,this "firing" threat comes from people who hopefully have never managed people, let alone potentially lead them in a "executive position".

 

Excellent points.

[SilvertoGold]

.....I wish I had your way with words. You stated exactly what I wanted to say just moments after the OP posted, but I could not think how to say it. I was going to try now and am thankful I read all the posts since:)

 

Joanie

 

Thank you, Joanie.

Since I've always been a fan of yours, that means a lot.

[LMaxwell]

Excellent points.

White knighting for people who think the customer is an interference to their jobs and not realizing the customer is the only reason they have a job.

[SilvertoGold]

White knighting for people who think the customer is an interference to their jobs and not realizing the customer is the only reason they have a job.

 

No doubt.

 

Sometimes a good manager has to draw the line and call a crank and crank or admit some customers cannot be satisfied.

Edited April 7, 2016 by SilvertoGold

[Lizzie68]

I've managed quite a few people and if a customer of mine wanted to speak to the boss I made myself available to address their concerns. Who are any of us to dismiss someone's concerns as invalid or not worthy of a superiors time.

 

 

A HD hiding from a guest is totally inexcusable. Respect your customer enough to give them face time. LISTEN to your paying customer, communicate that you understand the issue, delegate resolution to the proper person or department. Follow up afterwards to ensure satisfaction. These are basics and this is not a difficult concept. To avoid customers in a hospitality industry, well, I would hope behind those closed doors you are working on your resume.

 

I agree with this. It is not up to paying customer (often paying in excess of $10K) to be concerned about the work load of the HD. I have to say though, that last year when we had issues with our cabin the HD and the Guest Relations Manager were both very responsive.

[howndder]

Good morning everyone. I always find it amazing that, the people that respond to anyone here, whether me or anyone else for that matter, that defend everyone and everything in his/hers post that he/she found wanting. Not a single responder was on this cruise. Not one! Just to simplify things for you all, I have 158 days on Holland, not my first time. I have over 1,000 points on Celebrity, Platinum on Princess, Gold Star on Seabourn, so I think I can objectively give a review of a ship in need. The Oosterdam was just such a ship.

 

When I told the executive chef that Tuna, Egg, and Chicken salad would be a good addition to the "Salad Bar", and he suggested that I do his job and make it myself, well, I don't believe that his position should be given any credit or for that matter even be allowed to keep his job. Yes, it was on pre-made sandwiches. Does anyone realize how many of them I would have had to scrape the salad part out of? 6. Yes 6 sandwiches would have been necessary to make a single scoop of any of the above salads. Does anyone feel that is coast affective? Really?

 

Do you really think I didn't visit the "Guest Relations Department" first? I was told by manager, "Annie", that they didn't know there were problems happening. Really? And I am not allowed to ask for the next link in the chain? "Annie" told me that she was the one that would be handling my problems and I'm just to supposed to smile and go on my merry way. I think not!

 

It would have made anyone's argument, if they had been aboard my cruise. Not the same old, same old. I was 4 stars once and demoted when they changed their star system, and because of that I switched to Celebrity, I gave Holland another try because I took 2 of them last year and liked them again, but this cruise was a fiasco for me. Just me. It's back to Celebrity for me now.

 

Thanks for taking my side so nicely and making me feel wanted on these boards.

 

Howard in beautiful Fort Lauderdale

[LMaxwell]

No doubt.

 

Sometimes a good manager has to draw the line and call a crank and crank or admit some customers cannot be satisfied.

Yes but they must first meet the customer. Some customers are unreasonable. Some just want to chat about nonsense. But when a customer identifies a problem or problems that impact their vacation it is time for management to show their face and get a handle of the situation, assess what is possible to be done, and get to action. I simply can not support management that hides. It is either arrogance or apathy. I don't care whose logo is on the funnel.

[LMaxwell]

I agree with this. It is not up to paying customer (often paying in excess of $10K) to be concerned about the work load of the HD. I have to say though, that last year when we had issues with our cabin the HD and the Guest Relations Manager were both very responsive.

And surely the resolution of those issues as well as HOW they handled your concern made a very good impression and made you feel valued. OP spent hard earned money too and, frankly, was disrespected by a company that did not provide the advertised experience and management that didn't want to hear about it.

 

I wish all these cruise lines would cease with the demolition work on cruises before dry dock and just properly extend dry docks for the work that needs to be done and not impose on guests. All cruise lines do this sort of work without informing guests first and it is a practice I disagree with.

 

If HAL had respected OP as a customer the only remaining complaints would be egg salad and slow Internet which, to me, would be trivial. The hard efforts of front line staff were undermined by corporate decisions and uncaring onboard management.

[dakrewser]

When I told the executive chef that Tuna, Egg, and Chicken salad would be a good addition to the "Salad Bar", and he suggested that I do his job and make it myself, well, I don't believe that his position should be given any credit or for that matter even be allowed to keep his job. Yes, it was on pre-made sandwiches. Does anyone realize how many of them I would have had to scrape the salad part out of? 6. Yes 6 sandwiches would have been necessary to make a single scoop of any of the above salads. Does anyone feel that is coast affective? Really?

 

Gee, all that time on a ship and you still don't know what the exec. chef's job is? (hint: it's not to make salads).

[LMaxwell]

If OP hadn't mentioned egg salad the loyal defenders would have no straws to grasp at to defend the line. Sorry, I am on Howard's side here. HAL did not provide the experience on this cruise that they advertised. The Signature of Excellence sounds more like a Scribble of Mediocrity.

 

Wait, they changed the tagline.

 

I guess it's Savor What you Scrape.

[chefestelle]

Hownddr I paraphrase what i said in my first response to your post and that is I would not have been happy to have the facilities issues you had. Yes, these things happen. But they happen so often that the ship should be able to have an efficient response on the first go around, have a record of prior repairs needed so they aren't asking you if it's the first call, and should not be assuming you have put something in it you shouldn't have. That sort of thing really gets me dialled up. I would have been unhappy too. I can't pretend I wouldn't have been. I would have continued to enjoy the cruise but I would have wasted valuable vacation time dealing with it. As for the food, I wouldn't give a rat's bottom if something wasn't on the menu but you can see from the many threads on this forum that food changed or removed from a menu is a huge deal for many posters. These threads sometimes go on for pages - about onion soup, for the love of Pete! However, I don't hear any of those posters being told to make it themselves no matter whose ears their complaints fell on. I also don't care about incidental repairs while underway. We had some dangling cables in our halls on my last cruise but they stayed in my mind no longer than it took to pick my way around them. I really don't care about that stuff. But it is unsightly and I can understand how it might have compounded your growing dissatisfaction. Demanding everyone be fired was not realistic and got everyone worked up because they appreciate so much those people who work so hard for them to have a good cruise. I see you also enjoyed the benefit of those employees and gave them their due in your original post. Getting the Heisman when your issues are not addressed is not ok. Even if you were the most difficult passenger, your issues should be addressed as best as they are able. As for the slow inet, it's no secret it's slow. It is what it is. But it's expensive for this day and age so there should be clear cautions to the unknowing buyers. Not having a tech person handy is like being in any hotel with Internet access. I'm not sure it's realistic to provide a techy. All in all, I'm sorry these things happened to you. I'm sorry they impaired your enjoyment of your cruise. I wish your post had been more tempered so that you could receive some more helpful suggestions or even empathy. If you just wanted to vent, then I suppose you have accomplished that. I would suggest you pen a careful and thorough letter to corporate setting out your issues, the responses you received and why you are unhappy. Don't hold your breath. Most of the posters on this forum receive no response or boiler plate responses. Probably the same responses they would get if they complained to any cruise line. But it may make you feel better and if you do get a response it may be in the nature of something that gets you back on HAL with some credit. A word of advice: don't suggest people be fired. That's really a cruel thing to say, especially in this economy and given what these hard working people get paid. I wish you good luck.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums mobile app

[hrhdhd]

I am a glass-half-empty kind of gal, but I don't get on a cruise expecting that it will be a below-average experience. Everyone who keeps comparing ships to hotels doesn't acknowledge that a really dissatisfied customer can leave a hotel. And, yes, one can leave a ship, but it's a bit more labor-intensive and costly.

[SilvertoGold]

I am a glass-half-empty kind of gal, but I don't get on a cruise expecting that it will be a below-average experience. Everyone who keeps comparing ships to hotels doesn't acknowledge that a really dissatisfied customer can leave a hotel. And, yes, one can leave a ship, but it's a bit more labor-intensive and costly.

 

That is exactly right: a lot harder to "leave", so customers have to be very, very careful and understand that different brands offer different experiences, different levels of service, food, everything.

 

You choose wrong, you lose; you choose right, you win. Live and learn, graciously.

 

I am not saying that this cruise experience was great in all respects, but it comes down to attitude. It was, in many respects, not a "below-average experience". The OP actually praised a lot of crew and events, in his initial post.

Edited April 7, 2016 by SilvertoGold

[LoveHAL]

What cruise was this person on????? My wife and I were on the Odam on the same TransAtlantic crossing. The ship and staff were, in every way up to the usual High Standards of service. I was amazed at all of the extras that happened on board this wonderful 13 day cruise.

 

As of some of the major complaints.....

 

The hotel manager was outstanding. In fact, going against HAL procedures he attended our Meet and Great and invited people to visit with him. He was always smiling and helpful.

 

The staff that was on board the ship for pre-dry dock work were, as far as I could see, pretty much invisible. The did close down portions of the observation deck to prepare for the new cabins, but that was not done until the last few days of the cruise and was truly not a problem.

 

The Internet service was truly dreadful. The worst I have ever experienced.

 

Fortunately everything in our cabin worked perfectly and, to be honest, I never heard any complaints about plumbing from the many people I talked to.

 

All in all, I boarded the ship fully expecting to experience dry dock issues, and a ship in need of repair. From my perspective only, this was not the case at all. In fact, we are looking forward to he opportunity of sailing on the Odam, with the same Captain and Hotel Manager, in the future.

 

I am not disputing anything the OP has said, I just felt it necessary to chime in with our experience on the same ship and the same voyage. It was GREAT!

[IRL_Joanie]

..........<SNIP>.......I am not disputing anything the OP has said, I just felt it necessary to chime in with our experience on the same ship and the same voyage. It was GREAT!

 

I was hoping someone else would chime in with their experience on this same cruise.

 

I'm glad to hear that your experience(s) were much better than the OP's:) Not that I disbelieve him/her, but I did have my doubts about the Oosterdam being as bad as he/she stated.

 

Who was your HD? Last Roger heard/knew it was a Lady who's hubby was the Executive Chef (I cannot remember their names). It almost sounds to me as if you had Ron Botenbel as the HD?

 

OK, back to stealth mode for me:)

 

Welcome Back to HomeDam!!

 

Joanie

[dot73]

Sometimes I come back from a cruise, read other passengers' reviews, and wonder if we were all on the same cruise at the same time. SMH

[LoveHAL]

I was hoping someone else would chime in with their experience on this same cruise.

 

I'm glad to hear that your experience(s) were much better than the OP's:) Not that I disbelieve him/her, but I did have my doubts about the Oosterdam being as bad as he/she stated.

 

Who was your HD? Last Roger heard/knew it was a Lady who's hubby was the Executive Chef (I cannot remember their names). It almost sounds to me as if you had Ron Botenbel as the HD?

 

OK, back to stealth mode for me:)

 

Welcome Back to HomeDam!!

 

Joanie

The Hotel Manager on the Odam was Mark Pells, and he was excellent.

[Floridianfamily5]

I had toilet issues in my trip on the Veendam last month. My issues were not that it happened. My issues were with the front desk staff who did nothing and never issued an apology. It happens. It's a ship. I get it. But offer apology. Offer to make t right.do something. There are a million ways to make a customer heard and feel better about a gross situation. And my response I got from mentioning such in the survey again came with nothing except "they feel sad that I had areas I felt dissapointed in". Nope that's not an apology. And we also got nothing in response from hotel management either. It left a bad taste in an otherwise enjoyable cruise. But seriously toilet issues are gross. No water. That's bad.

[SilvertoGold]

The Hotel Manager on the Odam was Mark Pells, and he was excellent.

 

Extremely professional HD.

If he actually refused to meet with any pax, he had good reason to, I would think.

 

Thanks for letting us know who the HD was. Would you know who the GRM was?

[SilvertoGold]

I was hoping someone else would chime in with their experience on this same cruise.

 

I'm glad to hear that your experience(s) were much better than the OP's:) Not that I disbelieve him/her, but I did have my doubts about the Oosterdam being as bad as he/she stated.

 

Who was your HD? Last Roger heard/knew it was a Lady who's hubby was the Executive Chef (I cannot remember their names). It almost sounds to me as if you had Ron Botenbel as the HD?

 

OK, back to stealth mode for me:)

 

Welcome Back to HomeDam!!

 

Joanie

 

Joanie

 

You are thinking of Jessica Schuman and her chef hubbie Thomas?

 

They are on the Noordam right now, I think.

[SetAnOpenCourse]

I would think it's the hotel director's job to deal with the most disappointed passengers and the those who are the most upset; to even be on the lookout to make sure he/she is the one who handles it. I wouldn't commend a HD for attending and smiling at Meet and Greets. I'd commend him solely on preparation to avoid difficulties and handling those that do arise.

 

Likewise I'd think the executive chef would be the person on staff most likely to try to accommodate a passenger with a commonly expected item, a simple chicken salad. Doesn't even sound like the OP was given a true reason (looks cheap next to what? The plastic trough of garbanzo beans?).

[Floridianfamily5]

I had toilet issues in my trip on the Veendam last month. My issues were not that it happened. My issues were with the front desk staff who did nothing and never issued an apology. It happens. It's a ship. I get it. But offer apology. Offer to make t right.do something. There are a million ways to make a customer heard and feel better about a gross situation. And my response I got from mentioning such in the survey again came with nothing except "they feel sad that I had areas I felt dissapointed in". Nope that's not an apology. And we also got nothing in response from hotel management either. It left a bad taste in an otherwise enjoyable cruise. But seriously toilet issues are gross. No water. That's bad.

[LMaxwell]

Extremely professional HD.

If he actually refused to meet with any pax, he had good reason to, I would think.

 

Is this a joke? This is a joke, right?