Buyer beware

[Homer 2006]

Ruth,

The observation deck was torn apart and passengers were unable to use that deck. Cables were running through parts of hallways, ceiling tiles were taken out and electrical work was being done. The railings were taken off and the light standards were removed from the lido deck, leaving holes with wires exposed they were then covered up with 2 inch high wooden boxes which you had to watch out for so you wouldn't trip. Also, and I don't know if this was a result of the pending refit but the toilet odor outside the sports bar and hallway was disgusting.

[SLOTheta]

Just came back from this cruise and I was very disappointed, did not know it was going into refit when we booked. Our cabin was below the smoking section on the lido deck and the noise was continuous 24/7. The orchestra in the crows nest was so loud it made it impossible to enjoy an evening there. Be kind people.

 

 

You bring up a great point. I'm going on my first cruise this summer and thankful I found this forum, but I wouldn't have known that our ship just had a face lift (lucky us). On the flip side, if the ship was going into dry dock, we wouldn't have known that either. For new or inexperienced cruisers, how would you even have known that this ship was heading into dry dock and wasn't up to the typical HAL standards?

 

I looked through the thread about upcoming dry docks, you wouldn't be able to tell from the HAL website. How are regular (non Cruise Critic readers) supposed to know about ships that are in need of repairs and heading for a re-do?

 

I'm sorry you had issues on your cruise, hopefully your next one will be better.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums mobile app

[SC_GAY_Cruiser]

hey SLOT - I am sorry you like bad and good reviews. :p

 

And what I am really trying to say......it seems like there is so much apologizing on these boards. As in......"I'm sorry your cruise wasn't up to your expectations". Im not trying to pull a Trump (far from it) here, but aren't most apologies from people for something they had a part in? If you have certain expectations that are not met, I am not responsible for that and perhaps HAL should not be as well. Only the person that had the expectations.

 

Before retirement, I used to work in statistics. So lets keep things in perspective. Let us assume 2000 people on board a HAL ship. Let us assume that 10 people have taken the time to write a bad review on CC. That is .005% of the people on the cruise. That means (maybe) that .995% of people were satisfied or at least did not have enough major issues to complain about. And to complicate matters....of those 2000 on board, how many even know about CC?

 

So let me be the next person to apologize for _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ .

[jtl513]

Before retirement, I used to work in statistics. ... That is .005% of the people on the cruise. That means (maybe) that .995% of people ...

10 out of 2000 is 0.5%, not .005%, and 99.5% were not unhappy enough to complain.

 

Agree that 0.5% is small though. :)

.

Edited April 8, 2016 by jtl513

[caladezi]

10 out of 2000 is 0.5%, not .005%

 

Which is why the words "used to" are being used.

[3rdGenCunarder]

hey SLOT - I am sorry you like bad and good reviews. :p

 

And what I am really trying to say......it seems like there is so much apologizing on these boards. As in......"I'm sorry your cruise wasn't up to your expectations". Im not trying to pull a Trump (far from it) here, but aren't most apologies from people for something they had a part in? If you have certain expectations that are not met, I am not responsible for that and perhaps HAL should not be as well. Only the person that had the expectations.

 

Before retirement, I used to work in statistics. So lets keep things in perspective. Let us assume 2000 people on board a HAL ship. Let us assume that 10 people have taken the time to write a bad review on CC. That is .005% of the people on the cruise. That means (maybe) that .995% of people were satisfied or at least did not have enough major issues to complain about. And to complicate matters....of those 2000 on board, how many even know about CC?

 

So let me be the next person to apologize for _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ .

 

"Sorry" isn't only for accepting responsibility. When another poster here says "I'm sorry you had a bad cruise," it's an offer of sympathy.

 

As for your little statistics lesson, sorry but I missed the point. So if 0.5% of passengers from a cruise post a negative review here, what does that mean with respect to the discussion in this thread?

 

As far as expectations not being met, yes some of that is on the customer, especially when expectations are unrealistic. But HAL or any other company has to accept the major share of responsibility for meeting customers' expectations. They must think so--isn't that why those surveys ask "how well did we meet your expectations"?????

Edited April 8, 2016 by 3rdGenCunarder

[OlsSalt]

"Expectations" are subjective. Might be interesting to explore where we get our "expectations" about any particular cruise line.

 

I have long said cruise ship marketing imagery is often its own worst enemy. What! You mean you don't have to be young, impossibly slim, well-coiffed and highly stylish to go cruising, even on Crystal. With uniformed staff fawning over every beck and call.

 

You mean it is more like going to a sports arena with a crowd of thousands getting served banquet food and rattling along on choppy waters in a large metal box, but at least your bed gets made daily and someone else picks up the towels dropped on the bathroom floor? For $100 a day.

 

Who knew.

[CowPrincess]

"Expectations" are subjective. Might be interesting to explore where we get our "expectations" about any particular cruise line.

 

>SNIP<

 

 

Here's one of my expectations when dealing with ANY business. That the company and its representatives not try to make it my fault when there is a problem. You hit a "hot button" with me today :)

 

We recently stayed at a nice hotel and the housekeepers were incapable of leaving us fresh coffee cups when they made up the room. We would call and ask, and sometimes cups would arrive. Eventually. But it became our responsibility to get this looked after, instead of it being the hotel's responsibility.

 

The final straw was when we had no cups, called for cups, and some guy in a uniform arrived to check our room to make sure we were telling the truth :eek: and :rolleyes: He actually opened cupboard doors and drawers! And then proceeded to inform me that "every room has six cups left each day". I was left with the impression that they thought we were stealing their stupid coffee cups.

 

Same thing onboard a ship. Don't download the responsibility to the paying passenger -- deal with whatever the problem is in a timely matter.

[GlennG]

Perfect example of a pouncer!

 

Maybe I should have stated that I appreciate reviews with both praise and criticism. When I read reviews that are 100% positive, they are nice, but the ones that help set my expectations are the reviews that offer up insight into issues that may arise and how the company dealt with the problem. No trip is perfect, and when you omit details, it's not lying, but it's also not being completely honest and open. People deal with problems differently, and some choose to gloss over problems and don't dwell. That's great! But, I appreciate those who are willing to open themselves up to criticism and report on things that didn't sit well with them.

 

I can see my your post and many other people's post that criticism of service and experiences isn't well received.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums mobile app

 

I appreciate your description of a "pouncer." It's an interesting description of those people who have, previously, been described as "cheerleaders." There's nothing wrong with patronizing a business that meets (and surpasses) personal expectations. There's also nothing wrong with the fiercely loyal customer base of Holland America Line. However, like you, I appreciate reading reviews that show balance and a bit of objectivity. These kinds of reviews, that describe both the positive and negative aspects of a particular cruise, are useful in the planning of future cruises. Please don't be intimidated by "pouncers." I enjoy reading your posts.

[RuthC]

Ruth,

The observation deck was torn apart and passengers were unable to use that deck. Cables were running through parts of hallways, ceiling tiles were taken out and electrical work was being done. The railings were taken off and the light standards were removed from the lido deck, leaving holes with wires exposed they were then covered up with 2 inch high wooden boxes which you had to watch out for so you wouldn't trip. Also, and I don't know if this was a result of the pending refit but the toilet odor outside the sports bar and hallway was disgusting.

Thank you for the detail; most of it does sound like preliminary work done during the cruise.

I have to say that it is unlike what happened on either of my pre-dry dock cruises, and hope it wasn't a new standard operating procedure.

 

Sorry that there was so much interference in the normal course of cruising. I wouldn't like it, either (especially all that danger of tripping stuff).

Edited April 8, 2016 by RuthC

[VMax1700]

We were on the Oosterdam for her final Southern Caribbean 10 day of the season, just prior to the TA that OP reported on.

 

On the mornings of our visit to Bonaire and Aruba the ceiling panels in the corridor outside our stateroom (upper verandah, port side, mid ship) were removed and various workers were running cabling through the ceiling. I asked and was told it was preparation for the new cabins that were being fitted at dry dock.

 

Also, at various points around the ship were stock piles of materials (mostly sheets of marine ply etc). I was surprised that the materials were already loaded, even though the ship was returning to Port Everglades before heading to Europe. They were stacked on the observation deck and on the promenade deck, though not in anyone's way.

 

P.S edited to say......

 

I meant to mention that we also had a toilet problem.

DW said that the toilet wouldn't flush. As I didn't have the problem, I felt the need to investigate :eek:

I found that the valve fitted to the toilet flush button wasn't returning freely, and was causing the button to stick on one side, thereby not returning to its fully out position. It was just a matter of jiggling the flush button to release it and everything worked ok.

Edited April 8, 2016 by VMax1700

[SilvertoGold]

We were on the Oosterdam for her final Southern Caribbean 10 day of the season, just prior to the TA that OP reported on.

 

P.S edited to say......

 

I meant to mention that we also had a toilet problem.

DW said that the toilet wouldn't flush. As I didn't have the problem, I felt the need to investigate :eek:

I found that the valve fitted to the toilet flush button wasn't returning freely, and was causing the button to stick on one side, thereby not returning to its fully out position. It was just a matter of jiggling the flush button to release it and everything worked ok.

 

A pax felt the need to investigate. This is a new attitude and an excellent, responsible one.

 

Is water coming from the ceiling? Put the ice bucket under it and call for help.

Is the water in the toilet dangerously high or starting to overflow? Push in the flush button to try to unstick the valve or, as above, jiggle it, then call for help, if needed.

 

We look at it as if we were at home: the aftermath of these problems are going to affect US.

 

On the ship you can point to HAL all you want and say it is their fault, but you still are stuck with the wet carpets, blowers and dehumidifiers, changing cabins, maybe, etc. I don't get the impression that many pax actually try to participate in the problem.

Edited April 8, 2016 by SilvertoGold

[iancal]

Statistics aside, what always amazes me is the disbelieving people who happen to be on the same cruise or on the same sip during the past two years who cannot accept that someone else in another cabin could possibly have A/C or plumbing/flooding issues when their cabin was perfect. How does that logic work?

 

There is at least one ship that I am aware of where even the staff refer to a certain cabin area on one deck as the 'flood zone'. Fans are kept at the ready. They do not like working this area because there is lots of extra work, the customers are not happy, and there are few extra tips.

 

But on the bright side....the carpets are almost always either new or have just been cleaned.

Edited April 9, 2016 by iancal

[kalliekae]

I'm sorry the OP had such a bad experience on his cruise.

 

Bad plumbing seems to be a theme in many posts. We've had 7 cruises and experienced one overflowing toilet which was next door. That was years ago and we just thought it was something unusual and went on about our business. Now I'm just confused as to why this keeps happening on HAL ships. Any ideas?

Edited April 9, 2016 by kalliekae

[Lizzie68]

Sounds like OP probably asked at the front desk to get some face time with the HD. I'm not sure what the motivation is for passively smearing OP, but it is clear you don't believe him and now since we aren't all buying your attempts to discredit him, you are giving me the third degree.

 

I maintain that any HD that refuses to give face time to a guest better be doing something worthwhile like polishing their resume

 

The problem with an internet forum is the mob mentality takes hold, and then cyber bullying breaks out. Especially when someone has the audacity to criticize HAL ships/crew/staff, whatever, it seems.

 

I tend to take most posts - negative and positive - at face value. I wasn't there, I don't know, but I do know that two pax can have totally different experiences on the same cruise. So I try not to join the piling-on.

[iancal]

I don't have a broken leg and have never had one. Therefore I do not believe that anyone one else could have one now or could hav had one in the past.

 

Makes as much sense as some other comments.

[Wendy-Europe]

As mentioned - I was on the same cruise:

 

I will not minimize the inconveniences some guest felt. But I want to made clear what happened and what NOT happened:

 

There were workers onboard - from the beginning of the cruise. Some of them had inside cabins just opposite of mine (Deck 4) and I saw them returning from work at some days. Easy to recognize, because they wear the same clothes and tool belts (they startet working earlier than I began my day....:D )

At the captains Q & A he explained that they started with the preparation for drydock at non passengers areas, but more work has to be done from Funchal, where more workers came onboard.

 

And from Funchal the work was visible and recognizable for the passengers.

Funchal was Day 8 of a 13 day cruise.

 

At day 10 the whole Lido Pool was decorated with towel animals and a banner "happy "ape"-ril" This was a port day - Malaga (9 am to 6:30 pm). When I went to the gym I recognized the noises of metal saws. And at day 10 ONE exit at deck 11 was closed, because they began to remove metal piles to prepare this part of the deck for the new cabins. The loungers near bow at deck 11 were no longer available.

 

The Lido Deck (deck 10) was NOT affected.

 

But beginning from day 11 they began to remove SOME of the lamps at the Lido Deck. (they removed the large ones). Maybe half of the light...

The Northern Lights nighclub was closed because it will be remodeled at drydock and they began removing some equipment - but I would be really surprised if anyone except me even noticed this.

 

Day 12 was a sea day, one with really rainy weather - so I think the inconvenience of the closure of deck 11 at this day was minor.

 

But it was visible that something was going on, because the staff began to remove the books from the library in the evening (around 7 pm - I know the accurate time, because they started when we arrived there for trivia....)

 

At day 13 we arrived at Rome and of course at port they began unloading suitcases and loading material for drydock (containers and boxes), because the ship sail at the same day immediatly to Sicily to the drydock.

 

I absolutely understand that someone with a cabin nearby the area where the work began was affected and disturbed.

 

But it was NOT the whole cruise, not the whole ship and not every day.

[catl331]

Kudos to Silver/Gold!!:)

[smokinmike]

The comedy show continues . . .

[SLOTheta]

I appreciate your description of a "pouncer." Please don't be intimidated by "pouncers." I enjoy reading your posts.

 

 

Thanks. I love that I found this site before our first cruise. We have about 40 newbie cruisers in our wedding group, 10-15 experienced cruisers. None of them knew about CC and I've been summarizing the tips and tricks from this forum. The downside has been the not pleasant people who have the need to "pounce" on others when they have a differing opinion. Not nice!

 

I enjoy reading your posts, too!

 

 

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[RuthC]

As mentioned - I was on the same cruise:

 

I will not minimize the inconveniences some guest felt. But I want to made clear what happened and what NOT happened:

...

But it was NOT the whole cruise, not the whole ship and not every day.

Thank you for your description. It sounds a lot more plausible than the total upheaval that's been portrayed, and more in line with what I have experienced on my pre-dry dock cruises.

[OlsSalt]

Can't think of any cruise where we did not see engineering staff working in various parts of the ship. Including lifted ceiling or wall panels

 

Our own reaction is always awe for the level of technical expertise a ship's must provide to be ready for any and all system malfunctions. Plus the chance to see into the hidden infrastructure of what makes a ship really tick, its working guts, well beyond the superficial hotel veneer.

 

We always find these inner-working views humbling, rather than disruptive or offensive. We are just thankful they have so many skilled workers on board well-beyond the dining, entertainment and excursion staff who we normally see. We might be primarily daylight active passengers, but the ship goes on 24/7.

Edited April 9, 2016 by OlsSalt

[IRL_Joanie]

Thank you for your description. It sounds a lot more plausible than the total upheaval that's been portrayed, and more in line with what I have experienced on my pre-dry dock cruises.

 

Agree with RuthC.

 

Thank You:)

 

Joanie

[spookyfudge]

Thanks for the review, will skip HAL completely

 

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[kevingastreich]

ON THE FLIP SIDE:

 

I sent an email to Guest Relations after a cruise commending them on the nice time I had. Two weeks later, I received a free dinner for two at the Pinnacle Grill on the next cruise we had already booked. Nice!