Nieuw Amsterdam Group Booking - HUGE - Eliminates fixed dining and cuts open seating

[cruisemom42]

And so as a result we see the same thing that KevInPitt noted in another thread today: That anyone not pandering to the complaining, which someone wishes to be the only perspective allowed to be expressed, is defective somehow.

 

Or just maybe cruise lines will consider these complaints as the "canaries in a coal mine" -- the first harbinger that they are starting to reach a point where cutbacks over time in quality and service are finally enough to disincentivize customers. And they may adjust course accordingly. Or not.

[RDC1]

For all that people like to joust at windmills here on cruise critic, all of the sympathy with the OP, and all of the jousting at windmills does not change reality.

 

That reality is that all cruise lines book groups. Passengers will be negatively impacted to some degree. The larger the size of the group in relationship to the size of the ship the more the potential negative impact. You will encounter this on main stream cruise lines, luxury cruise lines, and for that matter I have encountered it on river cruises (half of the people were from one group) and ultra small ships.

 

It is far more useful to convey to folks that this does occur, and how one can check to minimize the chances that they will encounter such groups unexpectedly then it does to try and draft new language for the cruise line. It is also important for people to realize that if they book an ocean cruise, a river cruise, a land tour, etc. no matter how much research they do, sooner or later they will run into a group situation and they need to realize that it comes with the territory. It will continue to do so as long as it economically benefits the cruise line and the industry as a whole.

 

While this incident, as described by the OP, may have been one of the more extreme situations, the ship still provided dining. The menu itself was unchanged. The impact was a more restricted set of hours. The cruise line has their process by which one can make their opinion known. By all means people should use that mechanism, just as they should also speak with their dollar by not booking such cruises. However, the total membership of cruise critic is only about 7% of the annual cruise passenger load, so their are plenty to take advantage of any deals that they get on such cruises.

 

The response from the cruise line lets you know their view very clearly. Based upon that you can live with it, take your business elsewhere, try and inform others about the situation, or joust at windmills. The OP made others aware.

[bUU]

Or just maybe cruise lines will consider these complaints as the "canaries in a coal mine" -- the first harbinger that they are starting to reach a point where cutbacks over time in quality and service are finally enough to disincentivize customers. And they may adjust course accordingly. Or not.

indeed... Or not... The fact that the same things have been posited repeatedly and continuously for well over a decade. Keep in mind that no one questions the sharing of an experience nor the expression of disappointment. That's not the issue. The OP fulfilled that in the first post. The rest of the thread is about the posts that followed attempting​ to make unreasonable expectations of entitlement seem normal and acceptable. Left as such, careless accusations like that would in the worst case lead casual readers to the wrong conclusions about what they can and cannot expect from their own cruises. Is that a good thing?

 

The American consumer is still changing... still driving suppliers to do more and more of this sort of thing, not less. The American consumer marketplace is also still changing... still fostering these business polices, and more so everyday. It isn't good news but is real, and it affects what we can and should expect.

[kazu]

I really do try to follow your thoughts but they are presented in such a conversational pretzel that I lose the train. I'm really just a simple girl who does better with simple explanations. Maybe you could dumb down your points to make them understandable-----please?

 

 

Anyone who has been on these boards know you are NOT simple ;). But I agree - there is no need for verbal proflieration and long posts.

 

shorter concise posts are more beneficial.

 

Perhaps if the poster was typing and not dictating they may be more concise?

[innlady1]

Nonsense. Practically every American corporation that is not a not-for-profit is run for the exclusive benefit of its owners as a matter of law. They still produce high-quality service offerings that many millions of customers purchase and appreciate. Strategically serving and satisfying customers is one way corporations serve their investors best interests.

 

This message may have been entered using voice recognition. Please excuse any typos.

 

I really do try to follow your thoughts but they are presented in such a conversational pretzel that I lose the train. I'm really just a simple girl who does better with simple explanations. Maybe you could dumb down your points to make them understandable-----please?

 

Thank you so much, sapper, for saying what I've been thinking. I thought it was just me. I consider myself an intelligent person but, I must admit, most times I have no idea what bUU is trying to extrapolate. I need it dumbed down, too. I come here to relax and enjoy...not shake my head in despair.

[RDC1]

indeed... Or not... The fact that the same things have been posited repeatedly and continuously for well over a decade. Keep in mind that no one questions the sharing of an experience nor the expression of disappointment. That's not the issue. The OP fulfilled that in the first post. The rest of the thread is about the posts that followed attempting​ to make unreasonable expectations of entitlement seem normal and acceptable. Left as such, careless accusations like that would in the worst case lead casual readers to the wrong conclusions about what they can and cannot expect from their own cruises. Is that a good thing?

 

The American consumer is still changing... still driving suppliers to do more and more of this sort of thing, not less. The American consumer marketplace is also still changing... still fostering these business polices, and more so everyday. It isn't good news but is real, and it affects what we can and should expect.

 

 

To put the situation another way. How much more would people be willing to spend if the cruise line no longer booked groups? How much more would the cruise line have to charge if they no longer did groups? Is there enough elasticity in their ability to raise price for them to do so? Considering that the cruise industry has always hand little ability to raise price in the competitive environment that exists, I suspect not.

The lack of pricing power is the reason why you see the cutbacks that occur and why you see the lines going more mega ship and ship within a ship suite models.

[styles27]

Anyone who has been on these boards know you are NOT simple ;). But I agree - there is no need for verbal proflieration and long posts.

 

shorter concise posts are more beneficial.

 

Perhaps if the poster was typing and not dictating they may be more concise?

 

:') I keep thinking "step away from the thesaurus" ;)

[bUU]

To put the situation another way. How much more would people be willing to spend if the cruise line no longer booked groups? How much more would the cruise line have to charge if they no longer did groups? Is there enough elasticity in their ability to raise price for them to do so? Considering that the cruise industry has always hand little ability to raise price in the competitive environment that exists, I suspect not.

The lack of pricing power is the reason why you see the cutbacks that occur and why you see the lines going more mega ship and ship within a ship suite models.

Precisely. Exactly right.

 

:') I keep thinking "step away from the thesaurus" ;)

No thesaurus. Just a lifetime of relevant experience about customer loyalty, customer satisfaction, contract review, compliance management, etc.

 

 

 

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[cruisemom42]

The lack of pricing power is the reason why you see the cutbacks that occur and why you see the lines going more mega ship and ship within a ship suite models.

 

A process that sounds as appetizing as an arms race.

 

If it comes to this, I'd miss being on the sea but would simply focus on other types of travel.

[bUU]

A process that sounds as appetizing as an arms race.

 

If it comes to this, I'd miss being on the sea but would simply focus on other types of travel.

The question then becomes which? We're returning to cruising after a number of years because of increasing prices and decreasing value from our land-based vacations.

 

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[RDC1]

The question then becomes which? We're returning to cruising after a number of years because of increasing prices and decreasing value from our land-based vacations.

 

This message may have been entered using voice recognition. Please excuse any typos.

 

We spent over 60 days on cruise ships last year. This year mostly land tours and river cruises.

[cruisemom42]

The question then becomes which? We're returning to cruising after a number of years because of increasing prices and decreasing value from our land-based vacations.

 

This message may have been entered using voice recognition. Please excuse any typos.

 

There's still value for me in land travel, mainly because I travel solo -- not a good match for most cruises. Plus I tend to be destination focused; I enjoy a week in a big city with good food and good museums as much or more than the average cruise.

[iancal]

It is the opposite for us. Our cruising continues to decrease in favor of land trips

 

The diminishing cruise experience (for us) and the increasing prices have caused us to opt for other travel options/opportunities with increasing frequency.

[bUU]

There's still value for me in land travel, mainly because I travel solo -- not a good match for most cruises. Plus I tend to be destination focused; I enjoy a week in a big city with good food and good museums as much or more than the average cruise.

And we'll still take our land vacations now and then but the point is that there is no place where the grass is greener. Prices are increasing for all leisure activities and all of them are increasingly recognizing that keeping base price increases small and adding or increasing fees and surcharges is the right way to go.

 

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[sail7seas]

I don't have to show you anything, because that is not the issue and is a very tone-deaf reading of what is at stake here. I suggested language where HAL can give passengers up front notice to reduce any conflict between the alluring and generous marketing perceptions about dining, and the fine print in the cruise contract that takes it all away on whim and management discretion.

 

Take it or leave it. Just trying to help so there is not the full ship meltdown that was reported on the recent N-A cruise. Passengers were unhappy, crew was unhappy and it sounded like this even spilled over to the next voyage. Why on earth would HAL want a repeat of that by standing behind their cruise contract fine print that says neener, neener, neener, we win and you lose. Save those odds for the casino.

 

Several things are at stake from this prior discussion:

 

1. Regular passengers can be deprioritized as to expected and marketed amenities when a large affinity group is also booked

2. HAL will not disclose up front when a large group is booked that will trigger this regular passenger compromise .

3. To keep share holders happy, expect more large group bookings.

4. Suck it up, keep calm and carry on.

5. Surcharge dining is available to meet your compromised dining wishes: $15-$49 per person per night.

tHIS 'CON VERSATRION seems tro have turned into 'legal pleadings. Who her is holdsingg the gavel? Are we all the tryer of fact? Or are we cruisers with a ggripe and it has turned into a batrle of pleadings?

[sail7seas]

I don't have to show you anything, because that is not the issue and is a very tone-deaf reading of what is at stake here. I suggested language where HAL can give passengers up front notice to reduce any conflict between the alluring and generous marketing perceptions about dining, and the fine print in the cruise contract that takes it all away on whim and management discretion.

 

Take it or leave it. Just trying to help so there is not the full ship meltdown that was reported on the recent N-A cruise. Passengers were unhappy, crew was unhappy and it sounded like this even spilled over to the next voyage. Why on earth would HAL want a repeat of that by standing behind their cruise contract fine print that says neener, neener, neener, we win and you lose. Save those odds for the casino.

 

Several things are at stake from this prior discussion:

 

1. Regular passengers can be deprioritized as to expected and marketed amenities when a large affinity group is also booked

2. HAL will not disclose up front when a large group is booked that will trigger this regular passenger compromise .

3. To keep share holders happy, expect more large group bookings.

4. Suck it up, keep calm and carry on.

5. Surcharge dining is available to meet your compromised dining wishes: $15-$49 per person per night.

This conversation seems tro have turned into 'legal pleadings. Who heer is holding the gavel? Are we all the tryer of fact? Or are we cruisers with a gripe and it has turned into a batle of pleadings? Boring .... You ALL appear to be TRYING YOUR CASE; AND THE Conversation seems to havebeen re-directed.

[bUU]

Who her is holdsingg the gavel?

As with many things, the judge will be what passengers actually experience in the years to come.

[Lizzie68]

This conversation seems tro have turned into 'legal pleadings. Who heer is holding the gavel? Are we all the tryer of fact? Or are we cruisers with a gripe and it has turned into a batle of pleadings? Boring .... You ALL appear to be TRYING YOUR CASE; AND THE Conversation seems to havebeen re-directed.

 

Hell may be about to freeze over, but I agree with you.:eek: This sure isn't what most of us come to CC for - you remember, the exchange of ideas and info on cruising. Not trying to outdo each other with long winded arguments.

[EDLOS]

I have not read all 300+ postings, but has anyone focused on solutions to dining on Partial Charter Cruises that could mitigate the MDR problem.

So let's go:

All partial charter booking will have the following Dinner Venue on a seven day cruise:

Every OTHER night there will be for the Charter Group, a themed buffet on the Port side of Lido with with private seating from the Sea View Pool all the way to the Lido Pool.

An Italian Night

A Barbecue Night

An Asian Night

A German Night

An Asian Night

ALL with appropriate decorations, music

Groups booking the partial charters must agree to have at least 3 themed buffets. and HAL should and can make sure they are truly festive.

The regular cruisers are not totally shut out of dining at fixed or anytime dining for a whole week.

HAL can in advance make everyone aware of what will happen every day for dinner seating. NO SURPRISES !

It may not make everyone happy, but it sure seems more logical for the neurotic combat the Staff and Crew face with the present system.

[sail7seas]

It had been my understanding that early set seating was not available. But someone here has pointed out it may have been fully

 

Quite a broad generalization,. Really? Ameicans (without exception?) like to eat early? ) No,,,, I must beg to differ. I would not go to early dining on a ship . I am Ameican and I do not c are to eat early when traveling. As usual with broad gneralizations, the statement is not correct.

[RocketMan275]

I have not read all 300+ postings, but has anyone focused on solutions to dining on Partial Charter Cruises that could mitigate the MDR problem.

So let's go:

All partial charter booking will have the following Dinner Venue on a seven day cruise:

Every OTHER night there will be for the Charter Group, a themed buffet on the Port side of Lido with with private seating from the Sea View Pool all the way to the Lido Pool.

An Italian Night

A Barbecue Night

An Asian Night

A German Night

An Asian Night

ALL with appropriate decorations, music

Groups booking the partial charters must agree to have at least 3 themed buffets. and HAL should and can make sure they are truly festive.

The regular cruisers are not totally shut out of dining at fixed or anytime dining for a whole week.

HAL can in advance make everyone aware of what will happen every day for dinner seating. NO SURPRISES !

It may not make everyone happy, but it sure seems more logical for the neurotic combat the Staff and Crew face with the present system.

 

Wouldn't it be simpler to close the MDR to the members of the partial charter on three nights and require them to use the Lido? Basically, that is essentially proposing.

 

That said, the largest impediment to your plan is getting the group organizers to agree. Why wouldn't they just take their business elsewhere?

[RDC1]

Wouldn't it be simpler to close the MDR to the members of the partial charter on three nights and require them to use the Lido? Basically, that is essentially proposing.

 

That said, the largest impediment to your plan is getting the group organizers to agree. Why wouldn't they just take their business elsewhere?

 

It actually would cause more of an upheaval then doing what they do now. The way it is run now still provide EVERYONE with MDR access. The only limit is the hours. Group takes all late dining, rest gets all early. The only real alternative would be to give the group all early and everyone else all late. Which would upset more people.

[RDC1]

It had been my understanding that early set seating was not available. But someone here has pointed out it may have been fully

 

Quite a broad generalization,. Really? Ameicans (without exception?) like to eat early? ) No,,,, I must beg to differ. I would not go to early dining on a ship . I am Ameican and I do not c are to eat early when traveling. As usual with broad gneralizations, the statement is not correct.

 

 

Talk about an over reaction. It wasn't said without exception. What was said is that in general more Americans prefer early dining (just to make sure it is clear more means some percentage greater than 50%). This becomes more true with older demographics.

 

In Europe that switches and you have a higher percentage that prefers late dining.

 

Talk to any body responsible for dining room scheduling on board a cruise ship and they will tell you the same thing.

[EDLOS]

Wouldn't it be simpler to close the MDR to the members of the partial charter on three nights and require them to use the Lido? Basically, that is essentially proposing.

 

That said, the largest impediment to your plan is getting the group organizers to agree. Why wouldn't they just take their business elsewhere?

 

Like everything else in the business of recreation, you have to create an event that people want and look forward. Number one,They want a separate dining area. Proposing that they simply go to the Lido as opposed to their Special Italian Night with decorations and music ONLY for their group will sell, believe me ! Again, to the group organizers, we are creating these special theme nights just for you group. You and your people are going to love it !

OR you can continue doing the same old which is apparently irritating more and more of your regular cruisers. Is that what you are proposing ?

[VennDiagram]

Like everything else in the business of recreation, you have to create an event that people want and look forward. Number one,They want a separate dining area. Proposing that they simply go to the Lido as opposed to their Special Italian Night with decorations and music ONLY for their group will sell, believe me ! Again, to the group organizers, we are creating these special theme nights just for you group. You and your people are going to love it !

OR you can continue doing the same old which is apparently irritating more and more of your regular cruisers. Is that what you are proposing ?

 

Your ideas are innovative. They may not be perfect but it is good to see a post that has actual constructive suggestions that are somewhat outside the box. Bravo! Thank you :)