Nieuw Amsterdam Group Booking - HUGE - Eliminates fixed dining and cuts open seating

[OlsSalt]

I believe the Vessel Sanitation Program has put a kibosh on the outdoor Lido buffets - apparently something about food service being too far away from hand washing stations on some ships.

 

CDC report on the Amsterdam: your government knows best

 

Item No.: 13

Site: Food Service General-Lido Poolside Luau BBQ

Violation: A BBQ function occurred last on 25 November on the pool deck, which is not a food area. Staff explained how grills were staged next to a food employee-served buffet station. Although the area had a retractable roof, staff explained how this area is opened for the function since the function is done weekly and only weather permitting. This setup does not provide adequate protection for food and the nearest handwashing stations for the food employees were over 8 meters away.

Recommendation: Because of the risks for foodborne illness inherent to the food operation, ensure the supervisor or person in charge of food operations on the vessel demonstrates to VSP - during inspections and on request - knowledge of foodborne disease prevention, application of the Hazard Analysis Critical Point principles, and the food-safety guidelines in this manual.

Ensure that the person in charge demonstrates this knowledge: (1) By compliance with these guidelines; (12) Identifying critical-control points in the operation from purchasing through service that when not controlled may contribute to the transmission of foodborne illness and explaining steps taken to ensure the points are controlled in accordance with the guidelines in this manual.

[RocketMan275]

Like everything else in the business of recreation, you have to create an event that people want and look forward. Number one,They want a separate dining area. Proposing that they simply go to the Lido as opposed to their Special Italian Night with decorations and music ONLY for their group will sell, believe me ! Again, to the group organizers, we are creating these special theme nights just for you group. You and your people are going to love it !

OR you can continue doing the same old which is apparently irritating more and more of your regular cruisers. Is that what you are proposing ?

 

You are overlooking a very important part of the problem, ie, the only ones who have any say in creating solutions are the cruise line and the group organizers. It is no where evident that either of those consider that any problem exists that requires a solution. We can spin all sorts of solutions we think are attractive but to no avail. We have no "seat at the table".

[sail7seas]

[quote=RDC1;52620018

 

 

Talk about an over reaction. It wasn't said without exception. What was said is that in general more Americans prefer early dining (just to make sure it is clear more means some percentage greater than 50%). This becomes more true with older demographics.

 

In Europe that switches and you have a higher percentage that prefers late dining.

 

Talk to any body responsible for dining room scheduling on board a cruise ship and they will tell you the same thing.

 

I saw no mention of (in general ) or of any exceptions being noted.

 

alk about an over reaction. It wasn't said without exception. What was said is that in general more Americans prefer early dining (just to make sure it is clear more means some percentage greater than 50%). This becomes more true with older demographics.

I still don't see any xceptions noted. I stillsee ablanket generalized statement. Please show me what I am missing.

 

Liz54] thank you

Edited March 22, 2017 by sail7seas

[Liz54]

Bottom line is the cruise lines are going to continue to book groups. The smaller the mass market ship the more impact any group of a given size is likely to have. Do your home work and check before you book or at least before final payment date and other costs are locked in.

 

Groups are not going away, the size of groups are not going to decrease. Just as cruising has increased in popularity for individuals, organizations that specialize in group booking have increased their presence as well. No real way to avoid it. Even higher end lines have some groups.

 

From a cruise line perspective they generally put groups in late seating because US passengers tend to prefer early dining. I suspect that when you look at the numbers. Take the following calculation for an example (don't have exact numbers but the following estimate is what one Matre D told me on a cruise a few months ago when we were talking about scheduling) approximately 70% of US based passengers prefer early dining (this goes up with age). So if your group occupies 50% of the passengers and they are all put late then you 70% of the remaining passengers (35% of the total eating when they want to). You have 30% of the remaining passengers eating when they do not (15% of the total passenger load). Out of that 15% most of them will not get too upset about it, even though it is not their first choice. So you might end up with 5% fairly upset

 

If you put the group in early dining those numbers your would have issues with 35%, more than twice.

 

If you split the group you have even more problems.

 

So from the cruise line point of view they are impacting the fewest number of people.

 

The bolding is mine. This is the post I was using when I said someone said Americans like to eat early. Sorry for not being more specific!

[iancal]

We are our mid sixties. We typically eat between 6:30 and 7:00 PM at home, anywhere between 7 and 9 when we are travelling.

 

It is 7PM now, dinner will be ready in about 5 minutes. Perfect.

[Liz54]

We are our mid sixties. We typically eat between 6:30 and 7:00 PM at home, anywhere between 7 and 9 when we are travelling.

 

It is 7PM now, dinner will be ready in about 5 minutes. Perfect.

 

Agree. That's what we do as well.

[EDLOS]

You are overlooking a very important part of the problem, ie, the only ones who have any say in creating solutions are the cruise line and the group organizers. It is no where evident that either of those consider that any problem exists that requires a solution. We can spin all sorts of solutions we think are attractive but to no avail. We have no "seat at the table".

I think you are mistaken that we have no seat at the table, HAL reads these posts and if they don't, they are really have their heads in the sand. Solving this issue is also a morale issue with their crew. The ship's crew are not receiving combat pay to deal with this situation.

[LMaxwell]

I think you are mistaken that we have no seat at the table, HAL reads these posts and if they don't, they are really have their heads in the sand. Solving this issue is also a morale issue with their crew. The ship's crew are not receiving combat pay to deal with this situation.

 

I think you have a very optimistic view. As someone concerned over this and looking to cruise HAL as a first timer I called them and asked about this occurring and, well, they just aren't going to commit to providing me a fair shake, should a group come along. They certainly won't tell me. All I can do is search on my own. Do you think HAL cares if I choose their brand over another? I am left with the impression that answer is no.

[EDLOS]

I believe the Vessel Sanitation Program has put a kibosh on the outdoor Lido buffets - apparently something about food service being too far away from hand washing stations on some ships.

 

CDC report on the Amsterdam: your government knows best

 

Item No.: 13

 

Site: Food Service General-Lido Poolside Luau BBQ

 

Violation: A BBQ function occurred last on 25 November on the pool deck, which is not a food area. Staff explained how grills were staged next to a food employee-served buffet station. Although the area had a retractable roof, staff explained how this area is opened for the function since the function is done weekly and only weather permitting. This setup does not provide adequate protection for food and the nearest handwashing stations for the food employees were over 8 meters away.

 

Recommendation: Because of the risks for foodborne illness inherent to the food operation, ensure the supervisor or person in charge of food operations on the vessel demonstrates to VSP - during inspections and on request - knowledge of foodborne disease prevention, application of the Hazard Analysis Critical Point principles, and the food-safety guidelines in this manual.

Ensure that the person in charge demonstrates this knowledge: (1) By compliance with these guidelines; (12) Identifying critical-control points in the operation from purchasing through service that when not controlled may contribute to the transmission of foodborne illness and explaining steps taken to ensure the points are controlled in accordance with the guidelines in this manual.

 

Food Service Lido Poolside regulations : Another reason why we elected Donald Trump.

Beside that, there is 60 to 80 feet of serving surface on one side of the indoor Lido area for a buffet. and they carry their food out to Sea View and Lido Pool areas for breakfast and lunch daily !!!

" Some people can only focus on why something cannot be done whereas successful people focus on how it can be done "

[EDLOS]

I think you have a very optimistic view. As someone concerned over this and looking to cruise HAL as a first timer I called them and asked about this occurring and, well, they just aren't going to commit to providing me a fair shake, should a group come along. They certainly won't tell me. All I can do is search on my own. Do you think HAL cares if I choose their brand over another? I am left with the impression that answer is no.

 

I don't understand what you are saying " a fair shake, should a group come along" Seems like Pessimism is your Mantra !

[donaldsc]

You are overlooking a very important part of the problem, ie, the only ones who have any say in creating solutions are the cruise line and the group organizers. It is no where evident that either of those consider that any problem exists that requires a solution. We can spin all sorts of solutions we think are attractive but to no avail. We have no "seat at the table".

 

Yes we do. We can walk and cruise w another line if we are not treated right by HAL.

 

DON

[bUU]

Yes we do. We can walk and cruise w another line if we are not treated right by HAL.

As long as you can be sure that the other line is going to "treat you right". Passengers don't have "a seat at their table", either (though if you pay a lot more then they are likely to treat you better).

[RocketMan275]

I think you are mistaken that we have no seat at the table, HAL reads these posts and if they don't, they are really have their heads in the sand. Solving this issue is also a morale issue with their crew. The ship's crew are not receiving combat pay to deal with this situation.

 

There is a difference between having a seat and being affected.

There is only one report that this caused a morale issue and I think others reported this as a non-issue.

[styles27]

There is a difference between having a seat and being affected.

There is only one report that this caused a morale issue and I think others reported this as a non-issue.

 

I keep hearing that only about 2% of cruise passengers are members of Cruise Critic so I'm thinking that's why we aren't seeing too many posts like this.

 

 

Hopfully the others affected will fill out their surveys, write a letter etc.

 

 

As a business owner myself, customer satisfaction is very important to me. Customer dissatisfaction on social media is detrimental in some cases. I notice a lot of the negative posts on their FB page get neutralized fairly fast, so they must feel as I do about that.

 

 

I never gave this topic a second thought until Liz posted this and I was made aware of the thread on here listing groups/charters.

 

 

I appreciate this thread because it will certainly make me do my homework when planning our next cruise.

 

 

I got lucky with our Eurodam May 6th booking because I had booked and paid for it about a week before this thread was started. Dodged a bullet in my opinion.

[RocketMan275]

I keep hearing that only about 2% of cruise passengers are members of Cruise Critic so I'm thinking that's why we aren't seeing too many posts like this.

 

An often overlooked point. Too many think CC reflects the general cruising public. It is entirely possible that the majority of the cruising public sees this as a 'nothing'.

 

A significant percentage of cruise critic seem to think that late seating in the MDR is one of the most important event of their cruising experience. (One reason why dress codes are so important to some.) It's not necessarily true that this is as important an issue as some think.

 

I would think that if this had the impacts the more melodramatic posts indicate, HAL would do something. Groups are nothing new. Dedicated entertainment is nothing new. Restrictions in the MDR are nothing new. Perhaps this indicates that this isn't as big an issue some would have us believe.

[Liz54]

An often overlooked point. Too many think CC reflects the general cruising public. It is entirely possible that the majority of the cruising public sees this as a 'nothing'.

 

A significant percentage of cruise critic seem to think that late seating in the MDR is one of the most important event of their cruising experience. (One reason why dress codes are so important to some.) It's not necessarily true that this is as important an issue as some think.

 

I would think that if this had the impacts the more melodramatic posts indicate, HAL would do something. Groups are nothing new. Dedicated entertainment is nothing new. Restrictions in the MDR are nothing new. Perhaps this indicates that this isn't as big an issue some would have us believe.

 

I have been on many cruises and have never seen such a number of unhappy passengers and staff. Most of them have never heard of cruise critic. There was an almost constant line up at reception with people complaining. Several reviews in the review section here cite the problem as being major for them, as do several posters here. I believe those are indicators of a much bigger problem. Not a legal problem, I agree but a marketing problem.

 

On board ship I would say that 6 people a day mentioned it directly to me although I did not solicit opinions. An equal number of people were overheard expressing themselves to staff in no uncertain terms.

 

You can dig yourself into the view that its likely of no consequence as much as you like. I have described carefully and accurately what I experienced and saw. I have expressed my concerns to HAL because I like the line and would like to book with them again. Had I not written to them, I would not be booking again. I think there is a good chance that HAL will do something. But that remains to be seen.

 

I am an old person and have always believed if you don't like something in the consumer world its worth bringing your concerns to light. That is what I have done. If you have a disappointing cruise and choose to do nothing in the way of follow up, that's up to you.

[EDLOS]

To :

Rocketman275

OlsSalt

Lmaxwell

bUU

It appears that your consensus at 340 posts to this Topic is There is nothing that can be done, but let's go on beating this Dead Horse.

 

"If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem"

 

Thank you Liz54 for participating in a positive way !!!

Edited March 23, 2017 by EDLOS
more info

[RocketMan275]

I am an old person and have always believed if you don't like something in the consumer world its worth bringing your concerns to light. That is what I have done. If you have a disappointing cruise and choose to do nothing in the way of follow up, that's up to you.

 

Personally, I believe you have done a service to cruise critic in describing your experience. In 2014, I booked a cruise that was later chartered. I swore I would never book Holland again. I've followed these debates over groups and charters since. I've seen numerous ideas proposed to minimize the impact of groups/charters on other passengers. None of these stand a snow balls chance of being enacted.

 

Bottom line: groups and charters are profitable for all cruise lines. They will continue to book them. These groups will generally bring their own entertainment. Scheduling entertainment and dining means they will have priority access to the MDR. Short of banning groups with dedicated entertainment, there is no solution that does not have greater adverse impacts on cruise line profits than the status quo.

 

The only way to deal with groups/charters is to do your research and schedule your cruises to avoid groups that will likely have an adverse effect on your cruise. If that doesn't work and you wind up on a cruise with a group or kicked off a cruise because of a charter, then you have to deal with it in a manner that minimizes it's effect on your happiness.

 

The best advise on how to deal with groups/charters is this line someone posted here on cruise critic: "I can't control the direction the wind blows, but I can control the set of my sails."

[Cruiz'nBaers]

I have been on many cruises and have never seen such a number of unhappy passengers and staff. Most of them have never heard of cruise critic. There was an almost constant line up at reception with people complaining. Several reviews in the review section here cite the problem as being major for them, as do several posters here. I believe those are indicators of a much bigger problem. Not a legal problem, I agree but a marketing problem.

 

On board ship I would say that 6 people a day mentioned it directly to me although I did not solicit opinions. An equal number of people were overheard expressing themselves to staff in no uncertain terms.

 

You can dig yourself into the view that its likely of no consequence as much as you like. I have described carefully and accurately what I experienced and saw. I have expressed my concerns to HAL because I like the line and would like to book with them again. Had I not written to them, I would not be booking again. I think there is a good chance that HAL will do something. But that remains to be seen.

 

I am an old person and have always believed if you don't like something in the consumer world its worth bringing your concerns to light. That is what I have done. If you have a disappointing cruise and choose to do nothing in the way of follow up, that's up to you.

I believe that you made valid points and presented your case in a concise manner. I am very interested in hearing HAL's response. We, too, love the line, and would have been very upset if we had encountered the same experience. P!ease keep us informed. Thank you for taking the time to post.

[bUU]

The best advise on how to deal with groups/charters is this line someone posted here on cruise critic: "I can't control the direction the wind blows, but I can control the set of my sails."

That should be on the t-shirt!

[LMaxwell]

To :

Rocketman275

OlsSalt

Lmaxwell

bUU

It appears that your consensus at 340 posts to this Topic is There is nothing that can be done, but let's go on beating this Dead Horse.

 

"If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem"

 

Thank you Liz54 for participating in a positive way !!!

 

I contacted HAL and their basic answer was $$$$$$$$$$$ > $$. How does that make me a part of the problem? What do I have in this thread now; is this my third post?

[OVgirl]

We have also sent a letter with our concerns about this cruise to HAL. Will wait and see how they respond.

[OlsSalt]

.......

 

I would think that if this had the impacts the more melodramatic posts indicate, HAL would do something. Groups are nothing new. Dedicated entertainment is nothing new. Restrictions in the MDR are nothing new. Perhaps this indicates that this isn't as big an issue some would have us believe.

 

 

HAL marketing: As you wish dining (copyright)

HAL legal: We can and will do what ever we want, at any time we want, with no passenger notice or recourse.

HAL onboard: If you wish evening sit-down, non-surcharge dining you shall eat between 5:15 and 6pm, and at no other time.

 

HAL needs coordinate these three messages into a friendlier and more coherent whole for all parties concerned.

[nanlaur]

We have also sent a letter with our concerns about this cruise to HAL. Will wait and see how they respond.

As did we.

[OVgirl]

We have also sent a letter with our concerns about this cruise to HAL. Will wait and see how they respond.

 

First, I will clarify that I sent our concerns via email.

Just got an answer email back.

On behalf of the president, Christine Ferris has offered us a complimentary dinner in Tamarind on our next cruise.

 

Nuff said.