Breaking: independence of the seas diverts due to medial emergency

[clpkab4cruising]

During bridge tour earlier this month on Liberty, the officer explained that if they do have to try and land a helicopter there's a lot of preparations that have to be made. In the case of Liberty there was a line that runs from above the bridge down to the bow. The structure to which the line attaches to has to be lowered. The railings and benches on the helipad had to be removed. I think he said it took about 45 minutes to clear the space...

[Cuervosar]

During bridge tour earlier this month on Liberty, the officer explained that if they do have to try and land a helicopter there's a lot of preparations that have to be made. In the case of Liberty there was a line that runs from above the bridge down to the bow. The structure to which the line attaches to has to be lowered. The railings and benches on the helipad had to be removed. I think he said it took about 45 minutes to clear the space...

 

I worked mountain rescue for 13 years. One of our rules of thumb; in the presence of a helicopter, the average i.q. Goes down 75 points.

 

The first choice is going to be a winch op. For everbodies safety. Here is a good rule for all the passengers fortunate enough not to be in the basket; when you see a helo, just get as far away as possible. Let them work. They don't need you to film it, they don't need your eyewitness report, they don't need much at all except room to work. Go get a drink or something.

[Thorben-Hendrik]

Germanfflyer, enjoy Indy and have some good runs. :)

 

I am - Thank you!(y)

It is fabulous!!!:D - very cold since yesterday - but I love the wave on Indy! :cool:

Everything on Indy is better;).....but she seriously needs a dry-dock!:rolleyes:

 

We are indeed diverting to the Azores to offload the passenger.....

Edited April 25, 2017 by germanfflyer

[setsail]

During bridge tour earlier this month on Liberty, the officer explained that if they do have to try and land a helicopter there's a lot of preparations that have to be made. In the case of Liberty there was a line that runs from above the bridge down to the bow. The structure to which the line attaches to has to be lowered. The railings and benches on the helipad had to be removed. I think he said it took about 45 minutes to clear the space...

 

All of that stuff is hinged and held in place by locking pins including the benches. They pull the pins and it all just lays flat on the bow deck, the bow sprit goes forward out of the way and the cable secured

[A&L_Ont]

I am - Thank you!(y)

It is fabulous!!!:D - very cold since yesterday - but I love the wave on Indy! :cool:

Everything on Indy is better;).....but she seriously needs a dry-dock!:rolleyes:

 

We are indeed diverting to the Azores to offload the passenger.....

 

Does it still have the rooster tail in the centre of the wave? It took a day to get used to it but then all was good. Smooth riding to you.

 

I hope the passenger getting dropped off has everything go as smooth as possible.

[njkruzer]

We were on the Celebrity Infinity last year, about 18 hrs from Valparaiso, Chile, when a passenger was evacuated by helicopter. The helicopter circled, landed, a crew member and gurney got off. The helicopter took off and circled until they were ready to take passenger when it landed again, picked up the passenger and helicopter crew person and the took off. It was Chilean air rescue.

[ONECRUISER]

Don't know about oil platforms, maybe there's more space there. We need the Chief to explain. Also, there are no humans in the rocket and around the landing pad.

Been cruising on Royal for 29 yrs, even when ships had the Helicopter Pad at sea they used basket instead... Not saying they don't but remember it talked about by the Captains, using the pad is not the norm...

[chengkp75]

Okay, as someone who spent 12 years being ferried to Mobile Offshore drilling vessels by helicopter, has seen pilots brought to ships by helicopter, and has participated in helicopter evacuations on cruise ships, I'll tell what I know.

 

As for offshore oil platforms, most that people see, especially out in the Gulf of Mexico are fixed platforms, attached to the seabed, so no movement. Mobile rigs do move, but due to their basically square design tend to "heave" (vertical movement) rather than pitch or roll like a ship's hull does in seas. Therefore, it is easier to get a helicopter down on the deck, and keep it "stuck" to the deck on an oil rig. Sticking to the deck is the big problem, as the ship moves in response to the waves, while the helicopter doesn't, so just like in an elevator going down, it gets light in the feet.

 

More important than weight class of helidecks is the rotor arc clearance. This is why you see the helidecks of oil rigs either be very, very large, or raised and cantilevered out away from any obstructions. On a cruise ship, this just isn't possible, and even the ships that have the forward jackstaff that folds down, the railings on deck that fold down, etc., there are fixed obstructions that cannot be moved, like the forward face of the superstructure. Because this is an area of passenger cabins, this makes this a very sensitive obstruction to landing, and in many cases, the Captain will have these forward facing cabins evacuated during helicopter operations. Also, helicopters are very sensitive to FOD (foreign object damage) to their engines. Naval and CG flight deck crews are highly trained (and the oil rig hands to a lesser degree) in policing the flight decks to pick up any loose items that could get ingested by the engines. On a cruise ship, this is of course much more difficult to do, so keeping the helicopter at a distance is preferred.

 

Keeping the helicopter hovering above the ship provides that much more cushion for the pilot to avoid striking the ship with the rotor blades, over purposely moving in close to land. The pilot also has a larger view of the ship and its motion, so he/she can make corrections to the helicopter's flight in case the ship experiences the "one in ten" or "one in a hundred" larger wave.

 

Another thing that the basket recovery does is allow the helicopter to move away from the ship during most of the winching process. This gives the pilot more room, and also removes the patient in the basket from possible contact with the ship (could cause injury or even electrocution from static charge), and provides a "softer" landing in the water (not a steel deck), if things go completely sideways.

 

Helicopters can land on cruise ship helidecks, if the weight and rotor clearance are acceptable, but weather conditions will be a factor, and both the Captain of the ship and the pilot of the helicopter have to agree that the risk to the ship, helicopter, flight crew, and passengers and crew on the ship, warrants a landing over the risk to the patient in a basket recovery.

[ONECRUISER]

Okay, as someone who spent 12 years being ferried to Mobile Offshore drilling vessels by helicopter, has seen pilots brought to ships by helicopter, and has participated in helicopter evacuations on cruise ships, I'll tell what I know.

 

As for offshore oil platforms, most that people see, especially out in the Gulf of Mexico are fixed platforms, attached to the seabed, so no movement. Mobile rigs do move, but due to their basically square design tend to "heave" (vertical movement) rather than pitch or roll like a ship's hull does in seas. Therefore, it is easier to get a helicopter down on the deck, and keep it "stuck" to the deck on an oil rig. Sticking to the deck is the big problem, as the ship moves in response to the waves, while the helicopter doesn't, so just like in an elevator going down, it gets light in the feet.

 

More important than weight class of helidecks is the rotor arc clearance. This is why you see the helidecks of oil rigs either be very, very large, or raised and cantilevered out away from any obstructions. On a cruise ship, this just isn't possible, and even the ships that have the forward jackstaff that folds down, the railings on deck that fold down, etc., there are fixed obstructions that cannot be moved, like the forward face of the superstructure. Because this is an area of passenger cabins, this makes this a very sensitive obstruction to landing, and in many cases, the Captain will have these forward facing cabins evacuated during helicopter operations. Also, helicopters are very sensitive to FOD (foreign object damage) to their engines. Naval and CG flight deck crews are highly trained (and the oil rig hands to a lesser degree) in policing the flight decks to pick up any loose items that could get ingested by the engines. On a cruise ship, this is of course much more difficult to do, so keeping the helicopter at a distance is preferred.

 

Keeping the helicopter hovering above the ship provides that much more cushion for the pilot to avoid striking the ship with the rotor blades, over purposely moving in close to land. The pilot also has a larger view of the ship and its motion, so he/she can make corrections to the helicopter's flight in case the ship experiences the "one in ten" or "one in a hundred" larger wave.

 

Another thing that the basket recovery does is allow the helicopter to move away from the ship during most of the winching process. This gives the pilot more room, and also removes the patient in the basket from possible contact with the ship (could cause injury or even electrocution from static charge), and provides a "softer" landing in the water (not a steel deck), if things go completely sideways.

 

Helicopters can land on cruise ship helidecks, if the weight and rotor clearance are acceptable, but weather conditions will be a factor, and both the Captain of the ship and the pilot of the helicopter have to agree that the risk to the ship, helicopter, flight crew, and passengers and crew on the ship, warrants a landing over the risk to the patient in a basket recovery.

Thanks as always Chief...

[sky0000547]

The max weight the helipad can take is painted on the deck, bit do not recall what it is.

 

 

On Independence the max load on the helipad is 4,500kg which is 9,900lbs.

[Sancho_proudfoot]

How do you or those posting know it's a passenger??

 

 

I didn't, it was an assumption, based on the likely demographics of the passengers.

 

As discussed throughout the thread, the assumption was right and reasonable.

[John&LaLa]

On Independence the max load on the helipad is 4,500kg which is 9,900lbs.

That seems low. As I recall there was a group photo of about 100 pinnacles on the Harmony helipad for the 3 sisters party. That's probably 20,000 pounds. [emoji33]

 

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Forums mobile app

[Capt_BJ]

originally posted in 2014, much applies here. additional comments at the end:

 

Posted January 16th, 2014

 

 

 

 

 

 

Retired USCG Captain here ... who was Captain of helo carrying ships and launched helos for this type of situation many times .... I was "On Scene Commander" ... but I'm not a pilot ..

 

a few comments

 

- We trained a BUNCH to remain 'helo certified' for landing and launching helos and our equipment and procedures were examined OFTEN. Pilots (IME) are NOT fans of landing on 'unknown' platforms (not to mention needed extra annual training to be ship landing certified). IF something goes wrong they want the fire teams to be on the same page they are - knowing access to the helo, standard procedures, who will do what if things go bad. They will land on (inspected) fixed oil platforms but 'moving things' tend to be another story.

 

- A helo sitting on the deck of a moving ship is VERY unstable ... a BIG part of our training involves tying down the copter as quickly as possible, and removing tie downs at the LAST second for take off. Military ships and CG cutters have some fancy systems for this procedure - cruise ship???? The helo does NOT want some guys and some ropes with no clue . . .

 

- a MOVING ship is almost always more stable then a stopped ship (remember those stabilizers you like so much). In order to keep the ship's heading steady and get the best ride the helo pilot will direct the course and speed to the ship.

 

- a MOVING helo is more responsive and typically has more reserve power then one in a stationary hover .. another reason for the moving ship. When we landed or launched helos we were moving and there is a specific range of relative wind speed and direction (wind realized across the deck), and pitch and roll limits for the ship. Or in simple terms "turn the aircraft carrier into the wind . . ."

 

- for a CG helo, if they land on deck and certain mechanical issues arise they can be unable to take off .... NOW STUCK on the cruise ship. BAD. If they stay in the air ...

 

- a cruise ship does not just call for a CG chopper and off they go .... The ship contacts a Rescue Coordination Center and evacuation options are discussed usually involving a USCG (actually PHS) Flight Surgeon who then consults with Operations to see what options are available.

 

- I've never seen a private LifeFlight type helo do an at sea rescue. Military/CG assets are limited by 'where they are'. USCG is not deployed internationally ... well, there ARE exceptions... For example .... While CO of a cutter working between Jamaica and Haiti we got the call at zero dark hundred about a cruise passenger with a hot appendix. The cruise ship was over 100 miles away but we COULD launch our helo, pick up the pass' and fly on to Guantanamo where a surgeon was waiting. We had the helo off deck in 30 minutes. If we had not JUST HAPPENED to be in the right place ... this didn't work.

 

- sometimes a helo lift, even if in range and possible - is NOT the right choice ..... some patients can be more stressed by the helo lift than their malady!

 

*****************************************************

 

the US Coast Guard flys two primary types of helos: a variant of the H-60 which we call Jayhawk, and the smaller H-65 Dolphin. Without going into the why's suffice to say that in USCG ONLY the H-65 is used for shipboard deployment and therefore ONLY H-65 pilots carry the qualification for shipboard landings and not ALL H-65 pilots have this qualification which requires regular practice AT SEA to maintain. So while there are exceptions to every rule, generally a USCG H-60 is NOT going to land on a cruise ship, while an H-65 might in certain circumstances. OTOH hoisting is a 'core skill' for our helo pilots ....

 

ever noticed that cruise ships with helo pads tend to put them where there is otherwise 'wasted space' like at the very front. Look at a Navy ship or CG Cutter with a flight deck, where's the landing zone? IN THE BACK ..... Seems logical to me that if on take off or landing something went wrong, I'd prefer that a BIG STEEL WALL was not trying to run into me and my airplane versus steaming AWAY from me .....

[chengkp75]

Capt;

 

Hoping you'd chime in as the other side of the coin. One thing I've noticed with the USCG SAR teams, is the use of a Hercules as back-up when the range is extreme for the helicopter. Always good to have extra assets on hand when things go sideways.

[Thorben-Hendrik]

Does it still have the rooster tail in the centre of the wave? It took a day to get used to it but then all was good. Smooth riding to you.

 

I hope the passenger getting dropped off has everything go as smooth as possible.

 

Yes - I enjoy that feature!:D It adds flavor to the wave!:cool:

Weather is really bad today - they closed all outdoor activities.....:loudcry:

 

Hope they will re-open tomorrow...but I had some great runs - any way!(y)(y)

 

Reminds me to stay away from Symphony;)

Edited April 25, 2017 by germanfflyer

[BillOh]

Totally agree. Especially out there in the middle of the Atlantic! :eek:

 

We were docked at Labadee once, and they landed the helicopter for a med emergency on the dock, versus the ship. Even had one at Coco Cay, where they tendered the passenger into the island first, then loaded onto helicopter on the island.

 

I am assuming the helicopter pad on the ship is indeed for extreme emergencies only. Have never seen one land on a ship yet. Need a pretty good pilot for that I am sure!:o

 

In calm seas near San Juan we saw a helicopter lower a basket where people on the helipad loaded the passenger into the basket.

[Capt_BJ]

Capt;

 

Hoping you'd chime in as the other side of the coin. One thing I've noticed with the USCG SAR teams, is the use of a Hercules as back-up when the range is extreme for the helicopter. Always good to have extra assets on hand when things go sideways.

 

yes, this is standard procedure when the helo's go 'way out'

 

note that USCG does not have air to air refueling capability so the Herc can't add to the range. BUT the Herc' has much greater communications capability and 'is there' if something were to happen ... there would be someone to mark the spot ....

[chengkp75]

yes, this is standard procedure when the helo's go 'way out'

 

note that USCG does not have air to air refueling capability so the Herc can't add to the range. BUT the Herc' has much greater communications capability and 'is there' if something were to happen ... there would be someone to mark the spot ....

 

I know from my time working offshore Eastern Canada that the Canadian Forces SAR fixed wing Hercules and Buffalos had jettison pallets with liferafts and marking dyes, and of course they have a much longer loiter time for someone else to get there.

[sky0000547]

That seems low. As I recall there was a group photo of about 100 pinnacles on the Harmony helipad for the 3 sisters party. That's probably 20,000 pounds. [emoji33]

 

Here you go

 

[John&LaLa]

Here you go

 

I really wasn't questioning your facts, Maybe oasis is bigger

 

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Forums mobile app

[skycomb]

Looks like CG to me. I guess they have alternative choices. Some of the cutters that visit PC have small helicopters on the back. Patrick AFB uses Blackhawks for water rescue training.

 

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Forums mobile app

HH-65 Dolphin, used for short range rescue.

[Capt_BJ]

some factors to consider when discussing helo medivac at sea

 

- helicopters are generally intended for short range missions. The CG version of the Dolphin, H-65, has a range of 295 miles. The CG version of the H-60, 700 miles. As I mentioned earlier, CG does not maintain an air refueling capability. Assuming a medivac is going to be an out and back mission, cut the maximum distance the ship can be from a refueling point by half. 147 miles for the H-65 and 350 for the H-60 .... if you need hover time, cut this more. and btw a landing and a take off requires more power (fuel) so cut the distance more yet.

 

- the navigation package required for over the water flight is different then that for over land flight from what I understand (I'm not a pilot). the nav and communications package on a CG helo is MUCH different from that on your local sheriff dept's Huey. {altho with GPS this issue is certainly different from what it was as little as 10 years ago}

 

- outside of the US, the helo medivac capability of those who might be in range varies greatly. Only countries with more significant naval forces will have reason to maintain a ship landing capability. I can't remember a time when I was called off of a case because another country was in a better position to take over, but on the other hand I know that US and Canada work together closely on a routine basis and the UK certainly has an excellent capability (there was a UK / USCG helo pilot exchange program at one time ... dunno if that's still happening)

[Capt_BJ]

BTW ... in today's news

 

U.S. Coast Guard: Two Dead in Bulk Carrier Explosion

 

A second crewmember has died following an explosion aboard a bulk carrier in the North Atlantic as an emergency response continues for two others severely injured in the blast.

The U.S. Coast Guard confirmed today that at approximately 7:45 p.m. EST Monday the Captain of the Marshall Islands-flagged bulk carrier MV Tamar reported that another crewmember had died from wounds sustained in the explosion.

The explosion occurred earlier Monday in the MV Tamar’s forward storeroom as the ship was sailing eastbound about 1,300 miles offshore from Cape Cod, Massachusetts. The Captain initially reported that the explosion killed one crewmember and three others suffered massive burns.

The New York Air National Guard’s 106th Rescue Wing pararescuers arrived on board the Tamar at about 9:30 p.m. Monday after deploying from a HC-130 with two small boats and advanced life-saving equipment. They are staying with the ship until medics can take over care of the injured crew, the Coast Guard said.

The Portuguese Coast Guard is scheduled to launch a helicopter and pick up the injured crew members and bring them to Ponta Delgada. They are expected to be within range of the Azores, Portugal within 24 hours.

On Monday, the U.S. Coast Guard said the Canadian Coast Guard had also diverted two warships with physician assistants aboard. They were expected to arrive overnight.

The fire resulting from the explosion was extinguished and the cause is unknown, the Coast Guard said Monday.

The 623-foot MV Tamar, which is sailing from Baltimore to Gibraltar, is continuing on its transit to the Azores, Portugal. The ship’s engineering plant was unaffected by the explosion and fire.