Are Standards Slipping? Celebrity Eclipse - May 2017 - President’s Cruise.

[bobnjeff]

Thanks Bobnjeff, have already started looking at P & O. Though we are sad at giving up our cruise on X, we felt we were not looking forward to it, based on what we had just experienced, so decided to vote with our feet.

 

 

 

We may do the same. We are giving X another try in September on the Millie. It has been almost 3 years since our last cruise on X, we have done 5 RCCL, one P&O and one Cunard in the mean time. If what we are reading about the loud music in particular is back well....goodbye X for us. We have two future cruises booked with X but we will move on to other cruise lines that cater to our tastes.

 

 

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[Orator]

Have to disagree.

 

All ships almost always sail full. The question is how much they have to discount those final cabins.

 

Advance bookings are for the most part refundable deposits that may or may not turn into real sales. We know ta's often take down large blocks of cabins that they later release.

 

No one knows what X's earnings are. Parent RCCL doesn't break them out. X only accounts for 20% of RCCL total berths and hasn't added a ship since 2012 so doubt investment community pays much attention to the brand or even knows who LLP is. Agree stock price is forward looking, focused largely on growth in Asia and increased capacity with 11 new ships on order (4 Edge).

 

LLP fails to understand how it's much more expensive to acquire a new customer than to retain an existing one. Her death-by-a-thousand-cuts approach makes long time customers feel unappreciated and willing to explore other cruise lines. Am personally considering Oceania, MSC yacht club and Viking.

 

You raise some very good points. Wonderful to have a good, civil discussion on Cruise Critic. I know the cruises I've recently booked, Latin America in November and December and Japan in September have gone up considerably in price. These are special cruises that have unique appeal and certainly cannot be compared to Carribean cruises which are often deeply discounted at the end.

[Baron Barracuda]

Many large companies rank their operating units by perceived growth potential. Those at the top are given additional resources (expense $) to help them grow. Those further down receive less, but are expected to perform nonetheless. Those at the bottom are disposed of and their resources redeployed.

 

In the past five years RCCL added four ships each to RCI and TUI while X added none (actually losing two with the transfers of Zenith and Horizon to PUllmantur). Last August RCCL sold off a 51% interest in Pullmantur. Guess which brands are marked for growth and which are just being milked for current profits

[Orator]

Many large companies rank their operating units by perceived growth potential. Those at the top are given additional resources (expense $) to help them grow. Those further down receive less, but are expected to perform nonetheless. Those at the bottom are disposed of and their resources redeployed.

 

In the past five years RCCL added four ships each to RCI and TUI while X added none (actually losing two with the transfers of Zenith and Horizon to PUllmantur). Last August RCCL sold off a 51% interest in Pullmantur. Guess which brands are marked for growth and which are just being milked for current profits

 

Accepting your argument about resources, and I do, you need to look toward the future. Celebrity is building at least 4, possibly 5 Edge Class ships and to this date there are no plans have been announced to sell M Class ships. I know that my last statement is subject to disagreement; however a person very high in the Miami Office told a group of us that RCL wants to expand, not contract the Celebrity fleet. This would indicate that RCL sees Celebrity in your "marked for growth" sector.

[Muddi]

LLP accepts the website is rubbish and are working on rolling out a whole new one, some people,already have it.....apparently.....although no one in the theatre seemed to have the "new one". We returned to celebrity after 8 yrs away and were pleasantly surprised at how friendly and interactive all Staff were....until mid cruise when suddenly they just didn't bother, we had to ask for drinks to be topped up and often just got up to the bar and got our own only to be told to sit down and someone would bring it over....20 mins later! it then struck me that "our wonderful President" hadn't been mentioned for a few days and thought she must have jumped ship after Iceland stops. The difference in service and attitude was glaringly obvious to us.

[CruisingChick]

I can't believe they took that nice Iceland/Ireland cruise which we booked when it first opened up, announced it as President's cruise, then took away a stop in Iceland and changed times in other ports and then she leaves the ship half way through.

 

If that is not an insult to your loyal customers I don't know what is. I am SO HAPPY we canceled that cruise back in February.

[Jonah8208]

Has anyone on board had the chance to tell LLP about the chaos going on daily with the new website...? Many issues for browsing, booking and managing res.

 

If you haven had the Q&A this would be a very good Q for the CEO....

 

PS oops......just re read last few posts and see has already left the ship ..maybe she's going on Carnival to get ideas on how to destroy modern luxury !

 

Ah yeah the website - this was mentioned in the Q&A at some length and El Presidente said it is all better now and she was sorry for the disruption. I never go near the website I am not allowed by Maisiecat so I cannot comment futrther.

[Jonah8208]

Baron Barracuda and Orator - thanks for the informative corporate view stuff, I had not looked at Celebrity from an investor's viewpoint (which I should have done cos that is always where the answers are). Next cruise for Maisicat and I is on Hurtigruten next March I think from Bergen to North Cape and back. Hopefully Celebrity will have improved by the time we go back in September 2018 but if it hasn't then we will not automatically book Celebrity again.

[Orator]

Baron Barracuda and Orator - thanks for the informative corporate view stuff, I had not looked at Celebrity from an investor's viewpoint (which I should have done cos that is always where the answers are). Next cruise for Maisicat and I is on Hurtigruten next March I think from Bergen to North Cape and back. Hopefully Celebrity will have improved by the time we go back in September 2018 but if it hasn't then we will not automatically book Celebrity again.

 

As I see it the most important quality question is: How does Celebrity maintain quality of service as the fleet expands? May have mentioned this before, but perhaps worth mentioning again:Several Senior Officers have told me that they are currently experiencing problems with new hires. They don't know the product and appear unwilling to learn. I've heard this before: " The younger generation just doesn't have the work ethic we have". If correct expansion will only thin out the best workers and new hires just won't deliver the service we expect. This will be an industry wide problem as the number of ships increase.

[DYKWIA]

Accepting your argument about resources, and I do, you need to look toward the future. Celebrity is building at least 4, possibly 5 Edge Class ships and to this date there are no plans have been announced to sell M Class ships. I know that my last statement is subject to disagreement; however a person very high in the Miami Office told a group of us that RCL wants to expand, not contract the Celebrity fleet. This would indicate that RCL sees Celebrity in your "marked for growth" sector.

 

Someone very high in the Miami Office wouldn't confirm something significant like a major reduction in fleet size to a group of diners even if it was being planned would they?. Don't significant statements that could impact profits and share price like that have to go via the relevant stock exchange.

[81Zoomie]

One can often find a great deal on the real luxury lines for less than the price of a suite, and sometimes even Aqua on Celebrity.

[Orator]

One can often find a great deal on the real luxury lines for less than the price of a suite, and sometimes even Aqua on Celebrity.

 

Examples?

[riclop]

They are everywhere.

[Germancruiser]

Are Standards slipping- oh yes they do- and did so for the past 10 years or so. I stopped cruising with X- even though the Elite plus perks are nice- and moved to Cunard! Which is now as X was back in the 2000´s - talking of service and refinement!

It started with when the Solstice Class debuted- they are wonderful ships all of them- but the whole " cruise package" does no longer apeal to us. Loud music- overbearing almost. All this " all inclusive " nonsense made matters worse! Take the Al Baccio overcrowded almost all the time now- of course everyone wants to get the most out their package- who would blame them! Overworked and to less waiters and bar staff- I could go on and on...! Modern Luxury- sure if one never knew the " old " Celebrity"!

Anyhow I will go back for a cruise on board the New Edge ship. Always exciting to board an almost brand new ship- of new ship class too, besides and after all I was a great great " Fan" of Celebrity for years- so I keep trying. LOL!

[Orator]

They are everywhere.

 

Then it should be real easy for those making the claim to provide some good examples where the per day cost of a Suite on a luxury lines is less than AQ on Celebrity.

[The_Big_M]

As I see it the most important quality question is: How does Celebrity maintain quality of service as the fleet expands? May have mentioned this before, but perhaps worth mentioning again:Several Senior Officers have told me that they are currently experiencing problems with new hires. They don't know the product and appear unwilling to learn. I've heard this before: " The younger generation just doesn't have the work ethic we have". If correct expansion will only thin out the best workers and new hires just won't deliver the service we expect. This will be an industry wide problem as the number of ships increase.

 

On our cruise last month on Millennium, there wasn't a service issue (aside from perhaps feeling more forced/less genuine, seemingly due to pressure), and the younger staff delivered generally as well as the older staff.

 

The only issues are in the overall quality of the product i.e. limited food range, limited menus, and other cuts that are apparent.

[mrjim]

On our cruise last month on Millennium, there wasn't a service issue (aside from perhaps feeling more forced/less genuine, seemingly due to pressure), and the younger staff delivered generally as well as the older staff.

 

The only issues are in the overall quality of the product i.e. limited food range, limited menus, and other cuts that are apparent.

 

Well said! Fewer choices in MDR and buffet, cheaper ingredients. Also the preparation of many dishes wasn't that great. The number of cooks in the galley must have been reduced. Speciality restaurants on Reflection were good but not great. I can absolutely see no improvement over the last few years.

 

We will see where it ends and if they can get away with it. X used to be the quality leader in its segment for many years. Ratings (e.g. Berlitz Cruise Guide, * * * * + for many years) reflected that. After many cutbacks X has lost its quality leadership. If they can make more money now LLP made the right decisions.

[dodger1964]

Then it should be real easy for those making the claim to provide some good examples where the per day cost of a Suite on a luxury lines is less than AQ on Celebrity.

 

They didn't say suite on luxury line. They said u could find rooms on luxury line for less than suite cost, and at times AQ, on celebrity. It obviously isn't an apple to apple comparison.

 

And that is easily proven. At least for the ads I get from Oceania similar lines (assuming those are "luxury" lines)

[villauk]

Then it should be real easy for those making the claim to provide some good examples where the per day cost of a Suite on a luxury lines is less than AQ on Celebrity.

 

Think you are getting a little confused with the post you quoted. As Dodger stated above, the poster said they could sail on luxury lines for less than X's suite, or even sometimes Aqua, pricing - not suites on luxury lines.

[awhcruiser]

I am interested in this!

Then it should be real easy for those making the claim to provide some good examples where the per day cost of a Suite on a luxury lines is less than AQ on Celebrity.

[WpgCruise]

One can often find a great deal on the real luxury lines for less than the price of a suite, and sometimes even Aqua on Celebrity.

 

Examples?

 

Sure, here's one from our personal experience. Not a Lux line but defiantly a large step up from Celebrity.

 

Feb 1 2016, 11 night Celebrity Equinox cruise A1 hump cabin, incl Bev Package paid $211 per night. We're Elite so those "Perks" were also included.

 

Jan 22 2017 10 nights on Oceania Marina, B1 balcony, (upgraded for free to a P.H.) $225 per night. No loyalty "Perks" but an $800 O.B.C. so that pretty much made up for not having Elite "Perks"

 

It's fine to be a fan of a specific cruise line, I have no problem with that at all.

 

For us there simply came a time when we looked at the value for the money and realized that a better product for us can be had for a comparable price.

 

We're all different, what is important to me may well not be for you, the point I'm making is that instead of complaining, see if there isn't another product that meets your expectations at a price point you're comfortable with.

 

Writing to Celebrity, posting to Cruise Critic of your angst won't change the issues we have with Celebrity. I know as I've done that for several years. The "Good Old Days" are not coming back, but a "Good Old Days" experience can be had elsewhere for not much more than a Celebrity cruise.

Edited May 20, 2017 by WpgCruise

[Cathy Maneri]

WpgCruise I agree with you 100 percent. I've switched over to Oceania....I wanted the "real cruise experience" once again. I had been an avid Celebrity cruiser but I'm willing to cruise less and pay more for Oceania. Oceania, for me is the best cruise experience I've had in all my 26 cruises to date.

 

Sure, here's one from our personal experience. Not a Lux line but defiantly a large step up from Celebrity.

 

Feb 1 2016, 11 night Celebrity Equinox cruise A1 hump cabin, incl Bev Package paid $211 per night. We're Elite so those "Perks" were also included.

 

Jan 22 2017 10 nights on Oceania Marina, B1 balcony, (upgraded for free to a P.H.) $225 per night. No loyalty "Perks" but an $800 O.B.C. so that pretty much made up for not having Elite "Perks"

 

It's fine to be a fan of a specific cruise line, I have no problem with that at all.

 

For us there simply came a time when we looked at the value for the money and realized that a better product for us can be had for a comparable price.

 

We're all different, what is important to me may well not be for you, the point I'm making is that instead of complaining, see if there isn't another product that meets your expectations at a price point you're comfortable with.

 

Writing to Celebrity, posting to Cruise Critic of your angst won't change the issues we have with Celebrity. I know as I've done that for several years. The "Good Old Days" are not coming back, but a "Good Old Days" experience can be had elsewhere for not much more than a Celebrity cruise.

[CoupleUK]

Read the first page but too much to read - sorry.

 

We have just got off the same Presidents Cruise as the OP - here is our review (with further comments after)

 

This was one of best cruises ever - thank you Celebrity.

 

Only a couple of moans which I will get out of the way quickly.

 

The President and CEO of Celebrity was aboard this sailing - sadly, she would not have got a true picture of the ship as everywhere she went, at least 4 officers went 10 minutes prior just to ensure staff were made aware of her arrival and that little issues (if there were any) could be sorted. Why do companies always do this lol.

 

My only other "gripe" was the entertainment. Two of the production shows were dire though the other two were entertaining and made you sit up and take notice.

 

We were invited to a free Presidents Concert in Iceland which was good; consisting of a band with lead singer who played the violin throughout - so why did Celebrity have a violinist as a guest entertainer on board just 2 nights before.

 

The other guest entertainers ranged from good to excellent (the welsh comedian Mike Doyle was hilarious and managed to engage with all nationalities who each have a different sense of humour).

 

Given that we sailed from Southampton and had 3 stops in Ireland, it was slightly disappointing that Celebrity hadn't managed to get an Irish band or entertainer onto the ship. Surely it was have saved them a fortune on travel arrangements if nothing else.

 

Main dining food was excellent and the service very nearly matched it. Our wine waiter didn't allow our glasses to empty throughout the 12 nights hic.

 

Our guarantee balcony (6226) was in a great location, was well laid out and was kept clean and tidy by our cabin steward - no complaints at all.

 

Service everywhere was perfect - I don't think we had a single staff member who didn't greet us; whether it was a crew member along a corridor, bar staff welcoming us or officers mingling. Exceptional.

 

Considering that Eclipse is now a slightly older ship, she did not show her age at all. The ship is very well maintained and there was very little sign of any wear and tear.

 

The various bars were good although lacking in space at times.

 

The quizzes always seem to follow a pattern on cruise ships - I think the cruise director and his staff must do it on purpose for a laugh. When we had a sea day, they held the quizzes in the smallest bar and dozens were sat on the floor or just gave up. On a shore day, when most were off the ship, the quizzes were moved to the largest bar. This is not just a Celebrity issue.

 

Food in the OceanView Cafe was good and for the most part was hot. The choice of food changed quite a bit during the cruise, with a different theme each day.

 

Seating in OceanView was an occasional problem though guests were asked to vacate if they had finished eating etc. Sadly, we witnessed one table of 4 guests playing cards during lunch who were asked to vacate by two staff members. They refused until one of them made a token gesture of getting a slice of pizza to justify their stay. Pathetic.

 

We really enjoyed cruising with Celebrity and are already looking forward to getting back on the Eclipse for the Transatlantic in October.

 

 

 

We have now sailed 30 cruises - I would have prefered to say "enjoyed 30 cruises" but we've had some really duff ones.

 

Trust me, I am the first to complain if things are not up to standard.

 

We stopped sailing Celebrity and Royal Caribbean because we felt service had got so poor and the penny-pinching uncontrollable.

 

However, after trying MSC and P&O we booked on this Celebrity cruise - and I have to say we thoroughly enjoyed it. Was it perfect? of course not. But it was a HUGE improvement on our last Celebrity cruise.

 

We are back on Eclipse for the Transatlantic in October and we can't wait.

 

We wont be cruising with Royal Caribbean again any time soon but have now put Celebrity back on our list.

[Chewbecca]

Maybe UK prices are different but we're sailing on Eclipse this summer for literally 1/3 of the Oceania cruise we were pricing up.

 

Have not sailed on Eclipse before, we are fairly new to Celebrity having sailed on Oceania, Azamara, RC, HAL and Seabourn previously.

 

We sailed on Constellation this Easter and were impressed by the product for the price, hence booking Eclipse for the summer instead of the (far more expensive) Oceania cruise we were interested in. The live music on Connie was excellent and there was a great mix of quieter and louder venues. The music style was generally pitched at a mature audience, I never heard any 'dance' music. The daily quiz in Rendezvous was great fun and well organised by Matt. We were given a pager for the MDR a few times but this wasn't a concern, we went for a drink and were called within 10mins. Yes, there were art auctions but they were easy enough to avoid. The speciality restaurants were all excellent and we visited all multiple times. We hope our Eclipse cruise is as good as our Connie experience.

[villauk]

Maybe UK prices are different but we're sailing on Eclipse this summer for literally 1/3 of the Oceania cruise we were pricing up.

 

Have not sailed on Eclipse before, we are fairly new to Celebrity having sailed on Oceania, Azamara, RC, HAL and Seabourn previously.

 

.

 

There can be massive price differences depending on which country you book your cruise. It's just a pity that not all cruise lines permit you booking through those various countries, or perhaps even allow a purchase at the same cost, irrespective of where you reside ;).