holland america formal nights

[slidergirl]

33 minutes ago, ithaca gal said:

So, since I don’t have pictures of all the men in the dining room wearing jackets ...... except 6 ......, you’re saying I’m lying?

 

Reminds me of that old chestnut “the truth hurts”. 

 

Regardless of what you may want to believe, the FACT remains that out of all the men that I saw in the MDR (and we had a table that was near the middle of the room), only six were not wearing jackets on Gala Night.  It’s not a judgment, it’s just a fact.  It’s not a point of view or preference, it’s a fact. 

 

Lighten up.  Did you not see the smilie face and how it brought back memories of someone on the HAL board calling people out for not having an official temperature???  Geez.  Sounds like you are a little sensitive about your clothing choices vs the majority...  You are the first one to say such a tiny group were not wearing jackets.  Maybe you had a one-off cruise that is not the norm.  To try to use your one cruise as a ruler is incorrect; it is merely a one-time anecdote.  

[akav8er]

15 hours ago, LMaxwell said:

 

Cruise ship dining room dinners don't quite rise to what I consider to be an occasion.  It's not a wedding, or funeral, it's not a baby naming event, it's not a personalized event that you are there to mark the milestone.  It's cruise ship dinner.  Maybe individual tables are small groups of friends or family celebrating, that's fine, they should enjoy themselves how they want.  But the cruise line want to sell you portrait photos.  You can tell this because formal night on cruise ships, by and large, pretty much is limited to the main dining rooms.  That's fine in and of itself, but please don't act like anyone else is disrespecting you by not participating to the same degree that you choose.   When there are other theme nights, say a White night, Country and Western night, decades night, etc., do you participate to the maximum?  If you don't, because it does not interest you to do so, do you feel you owe "excuses" to someone who is head to toe in cowboy gear? 

To you it may simply be another dinner.  If so, to quote myself, so be it.  For DW and I, formal/gala nights are 'date night' occasions much like those we routinely have anywhere else. I do think it's a shame the elegance of those evenings is fading, but don't equate that with my taking issue with those following the current dress code.  On an evening where many have gone to an extra degree of effort to look their best, I do think it's somewhat disrespectful to dress as though one is headed to the grocery store.  

 

We cruise HAL because it's a more traditional cruise line and we enjoy the experience.  Given that all ships essentially hail the same ports and the cost is fairly uniform it seems silly to sail on a line that doesn't match ones preferred style of travel. We would never sail with Disney and complain about the number of children on board just as we would never sail with Carnival and complain about the number of inebriated 30-somethings on board. 

[akav8er]

12 hours ago, bUU said:

 

I've found that that generally is due to a presumption that one's own situation is everyone else's situation, a presumption that one's own priorities are everyone else's, or some similar type of inward focus. To truly understand what is being discussed in the thread, it is necessary to take what other say as true for them, even if it doesn't mesh with your own situation. There are likely things that work the other way: Perhaps you're not a techie. If not, and you struggle to do things for which techies have no trouble, they could "never quite understand" what your issue is if they adopted an exclusively inward focus. 

"I've found that that generally is due to a presumption that one's own situation is everyone else's situation..."

 

Not to put too fine a point on it, but my presumption is based on being in the exact same situation as everyone else.  We've traveled hundreds of thousands of miles, all the while being subjected to the same luggage restrictions as every other airline passenger. Somehow we've still managed to carry clothes and gear for every contingency, including "dress clothes". It is a choice, yes. Others are free to make other choices but they're not free to live in an alternate reality where one 28" suitcase magically holds half of what another 28" suitcase holds.  My grandchildren can indeed run circles around me in the tech department; my iPhone and I occasionally have issues but, at least thus far, I can still operate the buttons on a jacket. 😉 

[akav8er]

13 hours ago, bUU said:

 

I don't think there's really been a "loss of effort".  

      We certainly live in different worlds if you don't believe we have become more casual than in decades past.  I can scarcely go anywhere without seeing the outline of ladies undergarments through their second-skin tight yoga pants, or worse. That's to say nothing of young men parading around with their pants hanging on for dear life halfway down their legs showing their underpants to the world. The way many dress now doesn't just border on vulgar, it's banging on the door with both fists. 

 

That's an outmoded point-of-view. Formal attire is increasingly viewed as fussy, not a sign of respect.

     .... In your opinion, of course.   

 

Holland America is not a formal cruise line. 

     No, it's not. I'm not sure those exist in the strictest sense of the world, but HAL is a traditional cruise line.  

 

[akav8er]

12 hours ago, slidergirl said:

 

Are you implying that those who do not want to "make the effort" (as you define it for yourself)  are a bunch of slovenly hicks who would be best out of your eyesight and onto a bargain cruise rather than HAL?   If someone wants to play dress up, go for it.  But, your need to play does not mean you may force your requirements on others,  If they are dressed to the HAL recommendations, keep it to yourself and suck it up.  Or, perhaps HAL is not for you anymore and you would better served by going to a line like Cunard or Crystal, where the kind of dress code you want is still in vogue.  HAL isn't diminishing the brand, they are moving to adapt to the current age...

 

Slovenly? No, not at all. Lazy? Perhaps, yes.

 

That said, HAL is a willing participant as more passengers equals more revenue even it diminishes the brand in the eyes of the more traditional among us. HAL continuing to relax standards is turning the line into just another Carnival cruise similar to what Sears did when they incorporated Kmart into their stores. It tuned off some of its traditional clientele. 

[LMaxwell]

5 hours ago, akav8er said:

. I do think it's a shame the elegance of those evenings is fading, but don't equate that with my taking issue with those following the current dress code.

That's HAL's fault, not the guests.  

[LMaxwell]

4 hours ago, akav8er said:

Lazy? Perhaps, yes.

 

 

 

Oh do please explain this rationale...

 

I see you avoided the entire question about dressing for other theme nights; I'm guessing you don't go all out for other themes because they don't interest you.  Is that also lazy?  

[terrydtx]

Another of the endless CC threads debating formal wear on HAL. Just like the endless smoking threads one thing is clear  we are all on one side or the other and we will all never agree 100%. 

[ithaca gal]

8 hours ago, slidergirl said:

 

Lighten up.  Did you not see the smilie face and how it brought back memories of someone on the HAL board calling people out for not having an official temperature???  Geez.  Sounds like you are a little sensitive about your clothing choices vs the majority...  You are the first one to say such a tiny group were not wearing jackets.  Maybe you had a one-off cruise that is not the norm.  To try to use your one cruise as a ruler is incorrect; it is merely a one-time anecdote.  

I made no attempt to use this cruise “as a ruler”.  I merely let people know that very, very, very few men on THIS cruise went without a jacket.  Make what you will of this fact, but as my husband says, it is what it is 

[slidergirl]

9 hours ago, akav8er said:

Slovenly? No, not at all. Lazy? Perhaps, yes.

 

That said, HAL is a willing participant as more passengers equals more revenue even it diminishes the brand in the eyes of the more traditional among us. HAL continuing to relax standards is turning the line into just another Carnival cruise similar to what Sears did when they incorporated Kmart into their stores. It tuned off some of its traditional clientele. 

 

Well, that is a pretty disgusting comment you just made.  Lazy?  How about nose-up-in-the-air to think that someone who adheres to the HAL dress suggestions is lazy just because you cling to the "traditional" while HAL is no longer requires formal wear...  If you are turned off by people dining in the MDR in clothing deemed fine by HAL, you can dine in your room in your finery.  Or, you can turn to Cunard and it's class-defining dining rooms or Crystal.    Me?  I'll be wearing my roll up go-anywhere little black dress and enjoying what HAL offers, sometimes having a chuckle at the older couples decked out in the ill-fitting tux and gown they bought back in 1970 for their first cruise because they have to be formal...

[ithaca gal]

36 minutes ago, slidergirl said:

 

Well, that is a pretty disgusting comment you just made.  Lazy?  How about nose-up-in-the-air to think that someone who adheres to the HAL dress suggestions is lazy just because you cling to the "traditional" while HAL is no longer requires formal wear...  If you are turned off by people dining in the MDR in clothing deemed fine by HAL, you can dine in your room in your finery.  Or, you can turn to Cunard and it's class-defining dining rooms or Crystal.    Me?  I'll be wearing my roll up go-anywhere little black dress and enjoying what HAL offers, sometimes having a chuckle at the older couples decked out in the ill-fitting tux and gown they bought back in 1970 for their first cruise because they have to be formal...

Wow. Chuckle on and only HOPE that you will live long enough to be ridiculed by those who should know better. 

[slidergirl]

6 minutes ago, ithaca gal said:

Wow. Chuckle on and only HOPE that you will live long enough to be ridiculed by those who should know better. 

I am old enough to not give a rat's a$$.  And, after a serious year-long illness that had a near-death incident, I will continue to dress as I want (within the suggestions of a hotel or restaurant or cruise line) and not be bullied by those who call me "lazy", "slovenly", "not making an effort" to conform to what they THINK should be the dress requirement.  I'd rather chuckle at the ill-dressed-in-formal wear than sniff at people dressed within the dress suggestions who took the time to make sure their clothes fit properly but are not formal... My life is too precious to me to have someone's clothing have a drag on my experiences.

[iancal]

Leaving in two weeks for nine weeks of independent travel.   We may pick up a cruise in Australia, maybe not.

 

Carry on only.  No jacket, no suit, no tie.  Lazy?  People who do independent land travel are not lazy.  Just the opposite if you knew how much research and planning went into each trip.

 

Do we care about other cruisers who cannot abide change or are so intolerant (and perhaps arrogant) that they actually believe what they do or what they wear sets the standard that all others should follow?

 

In a word, no.  Our world is much larger than that.

[blizzardboy]

1 hour ago, slidergirl said:

 

Well, that is a pretty disgusting comment you just made.  Lazy?  How about nose-up-in-the-air to think that someone who adheres to the HAL dress suggestions is lazy just because you cling to the "traditional" while HAL is no longer requires formal wear...  If you are turned off by people dining in the MDR in clothing deemed fine by HAL, you can dine in your room in your finery.  Or, you can turn to Cunard and it's class-defining dining rooms or Crystal.    Me?  I'll be wearing my roll up go-anywhere little black dress and enjoying what HAL offers, sometimes having a chuckle at the older couples decked out in the ill-fitting tux and gown they bought back in 1970 for their first cruise because they have to be formal...

Snarky aren't we? Just so my ill-fitting Calvin Klein Tux and my custom gold and diamond ship's-wheel studs and cuff-links don't offend you, we eat at the Pinnacle or Tamarind on Gala nights. 

[Despegue]

 

I am actually getting fed up with the 70’s Fashion ( and Robe, Topless, etc etc) Police on this forum, but also the immediately claiming to be “offended” by any view contrary to theirs, their Age demographic or the norms in their Country of Residence/Nationality.

Grow up.

 

HAL is an International Cruise Line, with guests from all over the World. In lots of countries, Tuxes have gone the way of the Dodo: Extinct. If you refuse to adapt to modern social life, modern appropriate attire and modern( kind of at least) art and decor onboard HAL vessels, then stay home or choose an alternative.

 For info, I still wear a dark costume with tie and cufflings for the Gala evenings, as my Wife finds it really enjoyable to dress up to the nines. I wear a Uniform due to my profession, and with pride, but a cruise is per-definition an International vacation, so lighten up and accept that people will not wear, do or talk like you, as long as they do so within HAL’s guidelines.

 

rant over.

 

[RocketMan275]

3 hours ago, blizzardboy said:

Snarky aren't we? Just so my ill-fitting Calvin Klein Tux and my custom gold and diamond ship's-wheel studs and cuff-links don't offend you, we eat at the Pinnacle or Tamarind on Gala nights. 

And, I'll be there, in the PG or Tamarind, wearing my polo shirt, slacks, and boat shoes.  

[terrydtx]

24 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

And, I'll be there, in the PG or Tamarind, wearing my polo shirt, slacks, and boat shoes.  

Me too, in fact that's about the extent of my "formal" attire for any cruise today.

[akav8er]

10 hours ago, LMaxwell said:

That's HAL's fault, not the guests.  

As I indicated earlier when I said HAL was a willing participant. 

 

It sounds like you've been triggered. I believe that's what they're calling it these days when someone has an irrational and hypersensitive reaction to something not directed at them personally.

 

This and every other clothing-related thread has multiple comments from people saying in one form or another that they don't give a rats derriere about dressing to or certainly beyond the existing guidelines.  Being unwilling to dress to standards because "I hate wearing pants to dinner" or bemoaning having to to conform to standards certainly falls into a very broad definition of lazy. I won't lose sleep over what anyone wears or doesn't. That doesn't mean I don't have an opinion.  Those who do conform to "standards" aren't really the people being discussed here. 😉 I didn't really think that needed to be said but evidently it does.

 

 

 

[slidergirl]

4 minutes ago, akav8er said:

As I indicated earlier when I said HAL was a willing participant. 

 

It sounds like you've been triggered. I believe that's what they're calling it these days when someone has an irrational and hypersensitive reaction to something not directed at them personally.

 

This and every other clothing-related thread has multiple comments from people saying in one form or another that they don't give a rats derriere about dressing to or certainly beyond the existing guidelines.  Being unwilling to dress to standards because "I hate wearing pants to dinner" or bemoaning having to to conform to standards certainly falls into a very broad definition of lazy. I won't lose sleep over what anyone wears or doesn't. That doesn't mean I don't have an opinion.  Those who do conform to "standards" aren't really the people being discussed here. 😉 I didn't really think that needed to be said but evidently it does.

 

 

 

It sounds like you can't get past that some people who dress to the HAL guideline for "gala" night are within the cruise line's new guidelines.  Why must someone go what you say are "certainly beyond existing guidelines"???  Yes, there are people on here who will continue to say that, unless a gentleman is dressed in a sport coat at the minimum and their preference of a tux, is lazy, even if they are in nicely pressed trousers and a collared shirt (per the guideline).  Yes,  those continue to be lumped together as either lazy or unwilling to "make the effort."  Why people cruise is changing - it is less and less to relive the glory days where horse races and bingo were exciting activities and everyone returned to the ship earlier than needed so that the 4 people in the cabin could take turns in the bathroom to get in the suites and dresses for a 3 hour dinner.    As I have said, if you do not like it, move to Cunard or Crystal and leave HAL to those who enjoy the cruise line WITH the new guidelines.

[akav8er]

"Those who do conform to "standards" aren't really the people being discussed here."  I expressly clarified my position and you still insist on being offended. Now you're trying to put words in my mouth and intentionally taking my comments out of context.  Your interpretation of my comment is your issue, not mine.  Throttle back a bit and take a breath or two.  

 

We have vastly different cruising experiences based on your description of the 'glory days'.  We've haven't cruised on Crystal but have enjoyed the Cunard cruises we've taken.  We still enjoy HAL and plan to keep enjoying it. 

 

 

 

[akav8er]

11 hours ago, LMaxwell said:

 

Oh do please explain this rationale...

 

I see you avoided the entire question about dressing for other theme nights; I'm guessing you don't go all out for other themes because they don't interest you.  Is that also lazy?  

We have been on cruises in the past with other-than-formal theme nights. The last one I recall was a jazz night many, many years ago and yes, we took clothes appropriate for the evening.  For me it was easy as a tuxedo fits a great number of occasions.  For DW that meant a twenties inspired cocktail dress. I'm not sure we would sail on a cruise that had a country and western evening, although it could be fun.  If we did, we would certainly pack appropriate clothes. Is dressing out of a personal norm really that difficult?  

[LMaxwell]

56 minutes ago, akav8er said:

As I indicated earlier when I said HAL was a willing participant. 

 

It sounds like you've been triggered. I believe that's what they're calling it these days when someone has an irrational and hypersensitive reaction to something not directed at them personally.

 

This and every other clothing-related thread has multiple comments from people saying in one form or another that they don't give a rats derriere about dressing to or certainly beyond the existing guidelines.  Being unwilling to dress to standards because "I hate wearing pants to dinner" or bemoaning having to to conform to standards certainly falls into a very broad definition of lazy. I won't lose sleep over what anyone wears or doesn't. That doesn't mean I don't have an opinion.  Those who do conform to "standards" aren't really the people being discussed here. 😉 I didn't really think that needed to be said but evidently it does.

 

 

 

 

Anyways, that's for the ELI5, thank goodness someone did it or I'd never have understood...

Edited January 4, 2019 by LMaxwell

[LMaxwell]

19 minutes ago, akav8er said:

 Is dressing out of a personal norm really that difficult?  

 

I don't cruise to be a cast member in a costume party.  Why is that difficult?  Or rather, why does that make me a bad person?  You enjoy tuxes and dresses, I'm not asking you to stop doing that.  Enjoy. 

[KroozNut]

4 hours ago, RocketMan275 said:

And, I'll be there, in the PG or Tamarind, wearing my polo shirt, slacks, and boat shoes.  

 

How dare you!! 

[mcrcruiser]

3 hours ago, KroozNut said:

 

How dare you!! 

ROTFLMAO that is funny