Feeling a bit screwed over by RC, Irma safety/risk issue and no-refund, greed?

[caribill]

are not able to make it, you are receiving a full refund to use on a future cruise.

 

And yes, the cruise line chose to offer the cruise during hurricane season, but no one made the consumer book it.

 

Take some responsibility. You booked a cruise during the height of hurricane season. And you're surprised when a hurricane disrupts your vacation?

 

Again, this is only the second hurricane (out of many) in the past 12 years that affected Florida embarkation ports. So it is really not a big risk to book a cruise during this time.

 

Do you also suggest not booking a Caribbean cruise during winter because there is a good possibility that snow storms in the north and northeast will keep you from flying to make your cruise?

[caribill]

If you signed a contract that said you were paying 12$ for a dozen eggs, and if we cannot give you 12, we will discount the cost to cover the difference (say a bumpy road made 6 of the crack on the way to deliver, and they then refunded $6). While you did not get the full $12, you are getting refunded the portion you were missing.

 

Eggsactly. You are getting a true refund.

 

You are not getting a credit for a future purchase of eggs that must be used within a certain time.

[rukkian]

Im going to try not to beat a dead horse, but if you've been reading these threads you realize that not everyone has insurance, and of those who do some are finding that not everything is covered(including at least one poster on this thread), and finally and imho to me it shouldn't matter. The bottom line is the cruiseline is not providing the product that the consumer purchased. In that equation whether one does or does not have insurance doesn't/shouldn't matter .

 

At this point, they are full fulling the contract (which is what the customer purchased). The contract states it can be shortened, or changed. Just because a customer thought they were purchasing a guaranteed 7day, that is not in effect what they bought. as for some not having insurance, or not having enough insurance, they do have insurance, it is just that they decided to self insure. In this case, their insurance policy is paying, that money just comes out of their account, not some other companies. There are all sorts of policies covering different things. Kind of like somebody buying health insurance with a large deductible so they can save money, and then complaining they have to pay the deductible.

 

The lower cost during hurricane season is due to the risk. People have the option to not book this time of year.

[ColoradoGurl]

This has been a messy situation, but a major learning experience for everyone I think.

 

You can include me in "the passengers got screwed" camp, as I think it was horrible that RC shortened the cruise and made it so they didn't have to refund anyone actual money. I would not appreciate paying for a 7 day cruise and then be told I have to take a 4 day, pro-rated cruise. I would have felt better if RC offered that as an option (for those who are already in Florida and can get to port and would have been upset to have the whole cruise cancelled), but also offer others, who can't get to (or don't want to attempt getting to) Florida during a state of emergency.

 

However, I now understand that their cruise contract actually allows this. I didn't realize this, but now I am better informed so I can make cruise choices and insurance choices with that information on hand.

 

Speaking of insurance, I think it sucks that even people who bought insurance are unable to get their money back because of all the loopholes in the policies. Since RC didn't actually cancel the full cruise, I'm learning that most insurance policies aren't paying up. I feel for the people who bought insurance and it's not covering anything.

 

However, I'm learning that it is even more important to read all of the insurance options to make sure that there is always a "cancel for any reason" clause, because that seems to be the only way to ensure you can get any money back at all. It's also really important to choose an airline based on more than just the lowest price (which is why I love southwest and always fly them, even if their cheapest flight is more expensive than another carrier, because they are really flexible with their changes and cancellations).

 

I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned being angry at the insurance companies (and airlines) who are refusing to refund their money, and are instead misplacing ALL of their anger on RC for not creating the right conditions that would allow them to collect on the insurance (cancelling the cruise). In this case, I think those with insurance should really be angry at the insurance companies and airlines who are also seemingly unfazed by their customers complete inability to use the services they purchased. Yes, if RC cancelled entirely, the insurance would pay out, but why not be angry at the insurance company who isn't understanding of the fact that you couldn't get to a hurricane damaged area etc? Why not be angry at the airline who is refusing to give your cash back even though they can't get you to where you need to be?

 

The last cruise I took was so extremely inexpensive (around $500), that I chose not to purchase insurance because the cost would have been a large percentage of my total vacation cost, and when I read the policy, I saw that it was highly unlikely that I would be able to collect on the insurance due to the terms (I didn't see myself needing to be evacuated due to weather, and the medical clauses were highly unlikely to happen to me). Even if they did, I was content in losing my $500, and knew that my credit card company would reimburse me for having to pay to evacuate in the unlikely event those reasons occurred, and since I have a very high limit credit card, I was already covered. In reading that contract so thoroughly, I realized myself that the terms were so unfavorable to me that it wasn't worth buying.

 

I think this current hurricane situation has taught all of us to be even more diligent in reading the terms that would actually allow us to get any money back, and to be more diligent in choosing a policy, or accepting the risk of losing your money.

 

It wouldn't have occurred to me that RC would not cancel a cruise if a hurricane hit my departure port, so I may also have purchased a policy that required a full cancellation to get my money back, not realizing that RC gives themselves the right to shorten the cruise like they did.

 

Now we know.

 

The whole situation sucks, but in reality, I do see what bUU is arguing for, which is strictly a "by the book" explanation of whether people are owed anything or not. S/he is basing it purely off of contractual obligation, and in that case, they are probably, and unfortunately, correct. The rest of us are arguing for RC to act in good faith based on the reality of logistics and good customer service. I still think they should have cancelled and/or offered to refund people's cash, but I surrender to realizing they don't have to. Knowing this, I think we should all learn to put a lot more thought into how we choose a cruise, cruiseline, and insurance policy.

 

Given all that though, as I have always said on these boards, people will complain all day about how RC has gone downhill, and some even threaten to never sail them again, but guess what, they do. They continue to give them their money, and they don't cancel any of their cruises, and so even with the "bad PR" decisions Royal is making, they clearly aren't harming them, so why would they change any of their crappy terms :/

 

So far, none of the new terms RC had implemented have affected me (room service charge, non-refundable suite deposits, requiring both people to buy the drink package, corkage fee, horrible hurricane cancellation policy etc). But I am on high alert that the next policy change might be the one that does affect me, and because I've read so many complaints from the people they have affected, I have now opened myself up to looking into other cruise lines and am fully prepared to make a switch if it benefits me. The way they've upset so many people has put a bad taste in my mouth, and while I'm not jumping ship myself, I'm definitely no longer considering myself a loyal RCer

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

Edited September 11, 2017 by ColoradoGurl

[bUU]

Wasn't trying to be offensive.

I know and neither do I. My point wasn't about you but rather about the irrationality of what other posters consider offensive. Sorry to have drawn you into the cross-fire.

 

There are a lot of posts I have not responded to, including many of yours. You just like to attack me because I am willing to stand up to your bulling.

First, I don't attack people; I attack what people post. Other posters attack me, personally, making childishly rude comments trying to cast aspersions on my intelligence or demeanor. Second, I don't post "bulling". I post perspectives you don't like. That's all. Why you choose to try to make it sound like something else is something you'll have to answer for yourself. The point is that this inane meta-discussion is uncalled for, and you have the power to stop the the meta-discussion that you initiate. If you have something to say about the topic, then say it. If you have something to say about me, personally, then keep that to yourself, or take responsibility for polluting every thread you fail to stick to the topic with this off-topic detritus.These forums are supposed to help people have better vacations. This kind of nonsense I'm talking about doesn't do that. By contrast, my insisting that people understand and acknowledge the terms and conditions of the cruise contract does.

 

Let me make sure I understand what you are saying. Are you saying that the cruise line does not have to offer the cruise and then does not have to offer a refund or a credit?

I was referring to the FCC related to the inconvenience of a shortened cruise. They provide a prorated refund, and then FCC on top of that as a gift.

 

And how would you classify the totally unfounded allegation of infatuation?

I could have responded to childish rudeness with childish rudeness in response. Instead, I responded with humor.

 

Childish, rude, are just some of the adjectives you have shared about other forum members.

No, about things that people have posted, not personally attacking people. There's a difference and there's a reason why personal attacks are not allowed, but attacks on what people have said are. Beyond that, the piling in this thread is ridiculous. If you sincerely believe I've been anywhere as close to one tenth as rude to others as you all have been to me, then we have no common basis on which to have this conversation. And that would be another good reason to not have meta-discussions. They're pointless. If you don't like what I've written, then post what you believe about the topic, and leave out the nonsensical attacks on me.

 

So how do you propose that someone who has to fly to Florida for this Wednesday cruise actually get there in time?

I am not proposing anything. What I'm saying is that the blame rests with the hurricane, not the cruise line, not the airline, not the port, not me. Edited September 11, 2017 by bUU

[SRF]

And led to a new definition of competition. After one airline started charging fees for baggage, other airlines said they were adding the fees "for competitive purposes."

 

True competition would have meant the other airlines would not have added baggage fees.

 

And when the price of oil fell by a giant amount, one airline announced they would continue to price flights as if the price of oil had not fallen. The other airlines remained competitive by not lowering their prices either.

 

No, that one line lowered their fares and charged for bags. The consumers voted with their dollars by picking the cheapest fare. And then paid as much when they checked bags.

 

So the other airlines followed suit.

 

Except SouthWest, which I have found to be more expensive than the others much of the time. Remember, SW has their own law, requiring quoted fares in advertising to include all taxes and fees. They used to quote just the airfare portion, which seemed low. Also, there is a REASON SW is not on Kayak, Priceline, etc. :)

[Cuizer2]

But the airports may not be in better shape. From the Miami Herald:

 

While MIA is optimistic they can partially reopen starting Tuesday, Fort Lauderdale-Hollywood International Airport’s timetable is in limbo.

“That’s the million dollar question right now,” said FLL spokesperson Greg Meyer. “We do not know what time or day we will open.”

Another concern is the airport is facing is the four cruise ships docking at Port Everglades on Tuesday.

“We are in communications with Port Everglades, not directly with the cruise ships. But they all know our concerns and our challenges,” Meyer said. “We want to make sure that what they don’t do is come to port and then unload all those passengers, bring them to the airport when we don’t have the aircraft to take them home.”

 

Yes, the cruise lines have no responsibility to the passengers after disembarkation. It will be interesting to see how the different cruise lines handle this situation.

 

I disagree. There is a reason cruise lines avoid cities suffering from civil unrest. The cruise lines do owe to disembark their passengers in a place where it is reasonably safe to do so.

 

It would seem from what you have posted that Port Everglades might ask the cruise lines to take their passengers to Miami or Port Canaveral because FLL is unable to get the passengers back home.

Edited September 11, 2017 by Cuizer2

[Luckybee]

Can you point to any cruise contract with any cruise line that says the ship will be sea worthy?

 

The choice is thus not to find a cruise line that promises a sea worthy vessel, but to decide if you want a cruise vacation at all.

 

 

I have not looked at them, but I suspect hotels on land do not have contracts with customers that provide for habitable rooms, free from mold, vermin, insects, etc.

 

No the choice is to look at past performance and ask yourself whether you are prepared to take a chance with a company who does not have a proven positive track record in these situations versus another who does. If you are satisfied with the way Royal had handled this you should have no concerns, and if you are not there are at least 2 companies that handled this differently. So we all have future choices to make :)

 

And regarding your hotel example.....we once received a room at a 5* resort that had some pretty serious issues ( Merv Griffins paradise island before Atlantis took over) and they refunded our stay, and brought us back for 4 nights at the Ocean Club on them.

[Cuizer2]

Yawn. Yet another childishly rude personal attack. Try reposting without the juvenile disrespect if you want me to read it.

 

And how would you classify the totally unfounded allegation of infatuation?

[xpcdoojk]

I know and neither do I. My point wasn't about you but rather about the irrationality of what other posters consider offensive. Sorry to have drawn you into the cross-fire.

 

Pot meet the kettle.

 

Childish, rude, are just some of the adjectives you have shared about other forum members. Of course for me I get the combined childishly rude and the follow up juvenile disrespect. Gotta love people who are consistent.

 

Just sayin

 

JC

[Cuizer2]

Even if the airports open at 4AM, airlines aren't going to have flight levels back to full until at least a couple days later. Heck, even if they are operating at 100% on Wednesday (keep in mind that's when the OP's ship is supposed to sail IIRC), there will be so many people who had been stranded elsewhere it would still be difficult to get on a flight.

 

It is/was not practical to expect people (at least those who fly to the port) to be available for a cruise on 9/13 that was supposed to leave the 10th (or was it the 9th?).

 

All valid points.

[Cuizer2]

Thanks for the laugh jc.

 

I really don't understand why someone who doesn't even sail on Royal spends so much time bickering and berating those who do.

 

Everyone needs a hobby.

[SRF]

BTW, I don't know if I have a problem with industry standards or not, but I do have a problem with regulation for the sake of regulation. I didn't bash industry standards, I only bashed the way we get to some of those industry standards.

 

My preferred example is the law regarding being on board an airplane for X amount of time.

 

A widely publicized case, brought this on, even when the industry pointed out it only happens a few times a year, out of thousands of flights per DAY.

 

But no, everyone yelled and screamed, so Congress passed a law, requiring the airline to all sorts of things if this were to happen.

 

So the result is, it doesn't happen now. HOORAY. Except that now, if the airline thinks the flight will push anywhere close to that limit due to weather, they CANCEL THE FLIGHT.

 

Oh, and since it was canceled due to weather, they owe you NOTHING, except a later flight. NO meals, NO lodging, NOTHING.

 

That is what regulation does.

 

And many of those having an issue with how the cruise lines are handling Irma, have NO clue as to their lack of rights in airline travel due to weather delays and cancellations.

[caribill]

 

Carnival Magic was scheduled to take a seven night Western Caribbean cruise from Port Canaveral on Saturday, making four port calls. Instead that cruise is delayed. It will leave on Wednesday on a three night Bahamas cruise. The cruise fare will be prorated, and passengers are getting a 25% FCC.

 

 

That's nice.

 

But the Orlando airport is currently closed with no firm schedule to reopen. And once it does reopen, it will be several days until the full commercial schedule will be flying.

 

So how do you propose that someone who has to fly to Florida for this Wednesday cruise actually get there in time?

[Blondie419ag]

Again, this is only the second hurricane (out of many) in the past 12 years that affected Florida embarkation ports. So it is really not a big risk to book a cruise during this time.

 

Do you also suggest not booking a Caribbean cruise during winter because there is a good possibility that snow storms in the north and northeast will keep you from flying to make your cruise?

 

I didn't suggest not booking a cruise. I simply meant we take that chance. I live in New England and book vacations all year round. In February we had snow for 5 straight days and I flew to Jamaica on the 6th day. But I had insurance and was mentally preparing for my vacation to be cancelled or shortened.

 

Also, in case anyone thinks I'm just speaking from behind the safety of a computer. I was sent in early last week from my cruise. We were refunded 25%. That was nice but I still had to pay for a hotel room Thursday night before my flight so even with the refund still had to pay out of pocket.

[beachnative]

DO SOMETHING NICE FOR OTHERS AND IT MIGHT HELP YOU FEEL BETTER.

 

On the Royal Caribbean Homepage there is an icon to click that will lead you to a page to contribute to Hurricane Irma relief.

 

They are matching donations up to $1million.

 

(I'm sure some of the negative Nellies are eager to type a rebuttal to this post.):cool:

[SRF]

Cruise lines are not stores and the ships are not eggs (at least I hope not). Cruise lines transport people to a vacation. If you lived in California and wanted to go to Disney World, and the airline ticket cost $500. If the airline stopped in Dallas and said, we brought you half way, here is $250, would you feel that the airline made you whole?

 

No, this is more like stopping in Dallas and them saying we can't get you there because of a big storm between us and there.

 

So you don't go now, maybe we can go in two or three days.

 

And BTW, there is NO refund for not getting you there, as we will get you there eventually.

 

And NO, we will not provide meals or lodging, as this is a weather delay.

 

Have a great time, we will call you when we have a seat on a flight going there. And BTW, all the flights over the next 3 days are booked full.

[Cuizer2]

Can you point to any cruise contract with any cruise line that says the ship will be sea worthy?

 

The choice is thus not to find a cruise line that promises a sea worthy vessel, but to decide if you want a cruise vacation at all.

 

I have not looked at them, but I suspect hotels on land do not have contracts with customers that provide for habitable rooms, free from mold, vermin, insects, etc.

 

There is an implied warranty that applies to all goods and services for sale. The implied warranty is that the goods and/or services will be fit for their intended purposed. You can't charge someone $50 for a fire extinguisher and then send them a $5 squirt gun.

 

And as I said before, Royal Caribbean is not alone in what the terms of its contract says. Yet Royal Caribbean is taking a completely different customer service path than Carnival and NCL have.

[Ocean Dancer]

PHL averages about 1200 daily aircraft movements. This would cover inbound and outbound flights and would include private aircraft.

 

If every flight into and out of PHL is to or from the Caribbean, 50,000 flights cancelled would mean cancelling every flight for 42 days.

 

 

Of course every flight to/from PHL does not involve the Caribbean. Assuming that even 10% of flights do, that would mean cancelling every Caribbean flight for over a year.

 

I seriously doubt the 50,000 cancelled flights that you reported is an accurate number.

Please don't kill the messenger. Many of those flights were connecting to Houston, to the entire state of Fla and to the Caribbean. The originating flights from all over the world may have been cancelled/affected also. Why would someone want to go to Philly with no connecting flight to their destination? As the news reported, the domino effect.

[KDOG687]

The cost was actually more then when I was on it in Apr like most cruises it tends to be more of supply and demand for pricing. That sailing did have over 1500 kids on-board and was completely sold out. I was just indicating that when I booked it I knew that either ports could be changed or cancelled. I personally don't buy the extra insurance for the fact that I don't care to deal with the extra hassle if something does go wrong. I just accept the fact that life happens. If things change that is fine royal has cancelled a few of my cruises and I have thought they have always treated me fairly. That being said I don't expect to be giving a instant lottery pick either. Also I normally don't book in the winter time mainly because I know the odds a lot greater of getting snowed in and missing the ship.

 

Sent from my H1611 using Forums mobile app

[SRF]

Again, that is what insurance if for. I would check your insurance policy. If it is 2 separate policies, then you might be screwed. I know the policy I bought for my family of four for next year has provisions that if any one of us is unable to make it for covered reasons (flights cancelled would count), we can get our full fares back.

 

Even if each person is insured by a different carrier, this is likely true.

 

The policy states that it covers cancellation for you, in case of cancellation of any traveling partner. So if you can convince them that the person is a traveling partner (same cabin), you should be covered.

[SRF]

Can you point to any cruise contract with any cruise line that says the ship will be sea worthy?

 

The choice is thus not to find a cruise line that promises a sea worthy vessel, but to decide if you want a cruise vacation at all.

 

 

I have not looked at them, but I suspect hotels on land do not have contracts with customers that provide for habitable rooms, free from mold, vermin, insects, etc.

 

There is a legal term for this. An item offered for sale, must be capable of doing what it is supposed to do. A car is expected to move under its own power. And cruise ship must be seaworthy, etc.

[Cuizer2]

Do you also suggest not booking a Caribbean cruise during winter because there is a good possibility that snow storms in the north and northeast will keep you from flying to make your cruise?

 

No, you shouldn't book a cruise in the winter time so that your cruise doesn't end the same way the inaugural cruise of the Titanic did.

[capriccio]

 

It would seem from what you have posted that Port Everglades might ask the cruise lines to take their passengers to Miami or Port Canaveral because FLL is unable to get the passengers back home.

 

 

From the Broward County mayor's recent press conference thanks to the Sun-Sentinel website.

 

 

AIRPORT: The Fort Lauderdale-Hollywood International Airport will open Tuesday at 4 a.m., Sharief (the mayor) said.

PORT EVERGLADES: The port, which receives and distributes fuel to 12 counties, is being assessed for damage.

 

I noted that there was no mention in the article about the status of the return of cruise ships to Port Everglades.

[Luckybee]

No, that one line lowered their fares and charged for bags. The consumers voted with their dollars by picking the cheapest fare. And then paid as much when they checked bags.

 

So the other airlines followed suit.

 

Except SouthWest, which I have found to be more expensive than the others much of the time. Remember, SW has their own law, requiring quoted fares in advertising to include all taxes and fees. They used to quote just the airfare portion, which seemed low. Also, there is a REASON SW is not on Kayak, Priceline, etc. :)

 

That is interesting....I think it must depend on where you fly out of. Dh and I are in Canada between Toronto and Buffalo. If we are doing domestic or Caribbean always without any exception Southwest is by far our best bet compared to any of the other carriers both in terms of price, and policies. As an example just last week was booking flights to Orlando for April. We have a ton of points with Aeroplan( Air Canada's frequent flyer program) and we have a credit with JetBlue which I had intended to use. The cost for our trip on SWA at $109 usd ea way was less expensive than the cost of taxes and fees if we were to use our points out of Toronto. On a cash basis, they were far less than every other carrier by at least $150 per person usd each way, and using the credit on jet blue (which is only $200) would have left us paying and extra $159 ea so not a smart proposition out of Buffalo, and out of Toronto there was no reasonable comparison at all.