Feeling a bit screwed over by RC, Irma safety/risk issue and no-refund, greed?

[xpcdoojk]

It is unlikely anyone on this forum would take the time to attempt that, and then have you disect their post sentence by sentence. Most of your posts, generally pompous in nature, make us yawn!;)

 

Like!!!!:halo:

 

JC

[bUU]

And led to a new definition of competition. After one airline started charging fees for baggage, other airlines said they were adding the fees "for competitive purposes." True competition would have meant the other airlines would not have added baggage fees. And when the price of oil fell by a giant amount, one airline announced they would continue to price flights as if the price of oil had not fallen. The other airlines remained competitive by not lowering their prices either.

And yet so many folks are clamoring for competition to fix these situations they're angry about.

[Luckybee]

And your insurance should cover that, plain and simple. That is what insurance is for. If you decided to not buy an insurance policy, then you are still having your insurance cover it, but you are self insured, so you are covering it.

 

Additional cost for a different flight is part of the risk you took to cruise during this time of year.

 

I think you missed the part about how there was only 1 seat available out of 3 different carriers and 2 different airports .

 

I guess if it were me....I could go and leave dh at home (but it wouldn't make for a happy hubby....lol)

[caribill]

 

We will soon see how this plays out in this case. However, since the hurricane changed its predicted course from the east coast of Florida to the west coast of Florida, the cities and cruise ports on Florida's east coast may be in better shape than what was originally expected.

 

But the airports may not be in better shape. From the Miami Herald:

 

While MIA is optimistic they can partially reopen starting Tuesday, Fort Lauderdale-Hollywood International Airport’s timetable is in limbo.

“That’s the million dollar question right now,” said FLL spokesperson Greg Meyer. “We do not know what time or day we will open.”

Another concern is the airport is facing is the four cruise ships docking at Port Everglades on Tuesday.

“We are in communications with Port Everglades, not directly with the cruise ships. But they all know our concerns and our challenges,” Meyer said. “We want to make sure that what they don’t do is come to port and then unload all those passengers, bring them to the airport when we don’t have the aircraft to take them home.”

 

Yes, the cruise lines have no responsibility to the passengers after disembarkation. It will be interesting to see how the different cruise lines handle this situation.

[ONECRUISER]

I don't believe the large majority of the flying public prefers the smaller seat and being nickel and dimed--they just don't have much of a choice if they can't afford business class or whatever upgraded economy seat options are offered. The price differential puts business class out of reach for many people--that doesn't mean they're happy with smaller seats and less service, it just means they have to accept it or find another way to travel.

 

Look, for example, at the difference between Air Canada and Air Canada Rouge, and how livid people are if they've booked on Air Canada and then find their flight "Rouged."

First flight in 1986 was $460 from Nashville to Detroit, this when I was in Army making $393 a month. Would been too expensive for me to fly from Huntsviile Al to Lansing MI, so I had to drive 2 hrs Ala to Nashville then family pick me up in Det for rest of trip, another 90 min. Nice big seats, full meal, and all the smoke I could inhale. Now I pay $60-90 flying Allegiant MI to AZ, pay for my Baggage. Like my rates now but hate that seats are smaller and they don't recline. But I do pay another $29 a flight I get exit row window with extra leg room. It's like Cruising on Royal, was $3400 in 1988 to sail a 7 day w/tiny port hole on deck 2. Lot cheaper now... Changes some good some bad.

[Cuizer2]

Isn't a company responsible to provide the product paid for by the consumer?

 

In this case, the cruise line chose to offer a cruise during hurricane season. If they can't deliver what was advertised and bargained for then it should be in them.

 

If the cruise line elected not to insure losses in cases like this, then that's a risk they took.

 

Looks like they are now trying to mitigate damages while the consumer suffers.

 

That pretty much sums it up for me.

[bouhunter]

But they are not refunding the difference, they are providing a credit of the difference to those who take the shortened cruise, and for those who don't a credit for what they spent. Already there are some on the boards who have said they cannot find cruises to fit there schedules, costs etc with those credits.

 

Let me give you examples....lets say Mr and Mrs Smith booked one of the affected cruises. They both had to get time off work and to do so they need to request same 6-12 months in advance. Then it takes a month for the employers to ok their time off and by the time they go back and forth they cant book within the 60 days needed. Or lets say they saved and saved to be able to afford this cruise and now the price for the same cruise next year is more than they can afford. Or this cruise was a special occasion, like a honeymoon or anniversary and they cant get another cruise now with Royal but instead they want to fly to Jamaica or Aruba because they want a 7 day holiday not a 4 day one, which after all is what they booked in the first place.

 

If Mr. and Mrs. Smith have that many complications involved in scheduling a vacation they should probably avoid planning cruises in hurricane season in the first place.

[perditax]

But the airports may not be in better shape. From the Miami Herald:

 

While MIA is optimistic they can partially reopen starting Tuesday, Fort Lauderdale-Hollywood International Airport’s timetable is in limbo.

 

FLL is opening at 4AM tomorrow, per their Twitter.

 

Inspections are underway at Port Everglades.

[Cuizer2]

All three lines showed how they will handle this situation if/when it happens again. It appears Royal will stick to what the contract says while Carnival and NCL will not. Consumers can now add those decisions to their "pros/cons" list when they decide on their next choice of cruise lines.

 

However, I'm guessing in about a month most people will forget about this decision. Even those it directly affected (like the OP) are likely to decide based on all the other differences (cost, itinerary, amenities, etc). RCI will probably lose a couple customers over this, but I think they'll be readily replaced.

 

I agree with what you posted. However, that does not mean I agree with what Royal Caribbean is doing (or not doing).

[bUU]

Bicker, I know this will go right over your head...

Yawn. Yet another childishly rude personal attack. Try reposting without the juvenile disrespect if you want me to read it.

[Cuizer2]

No, Cruise Critic has taught me recently that only consumers can be blamed for traveling during hurricane season, cruise lines are exempt. ;)

 

Don't let the cheerleaders get to you.

[Blondie419ag]

I have to laugh at some of the comments above that my comments present an "I'm better than you" attitude. Several posters have dropped comments like this one from Blondie into the thread and I've said nothing that was anywhere near as close to being offensive as what Blondie posted here. I don't post "better than you". As I said before, I post, "This is integrity." I don't say whether I'm better at it that anyone else. That would be irrelevant.

 

Wasn't trying to be offensive. And I apologize to those that I offended. I let the anger get the better of me after watching the reports of all the destruction and then reading things here. Still maintain most of us can use a little perspective in our arguments. Good luck to those with affected trips and rebooking. I hope that the FCC is honored for as long as necessary to book another trip. I'll be purchasing insurance for all future trips, just in case.

[Cuizer2]

If you signed a contract that said you were paying 12$ for a dozen eggs, and if we cannot give you 12, we will discount the cost to cover the difference (say a bumpy road made 6 of the crack on the way to deliver, and they then refunded $6). While you did not get the full $12, you are getting refunded the portion you were missing.

 

Cruise lines are not stores and the ships are not eggs (at least I hope not). Cruise lines transport people to a vacation. If you lived in California and wanted to go to Disney World, and the airline ticket cost $500. If the airline stopped in Dallas and said, we brought you half way, here is $250, would you feel that the airline made you whole?

[caribill]

Here's the thing though... bUU isn't totally wrong. I got the feeling from reading this thread that if bUU said "the ocean is blue" people would say s/he is wrong.

 

 

 

Below is a true, unaltered photo taken while cruising in the Atlantic Ocean

[S.A.M.J.R.]

FLL is opening at 4AM tomorrow, per their Twitter.

 

Inspections are underway at Port Everglades.

Even if the airports open at 4AM, airlines aren't going to have flight levels back to full until at least a couple days later. Heck, even if they are operating at 100% on Wednesday (keep in mind that's when the OP's ship is supposed to sail IIRC), there will be so many people who had been stranded elsewhere it would still be difficult to get on a flight.

 

It is/was not practical to expect people (at least those who fly to the port) to be available for a cruise on 9/13 that was supposed to leave the 10th (or was it the 9th?).

[rukkian]

I think you missed the part about how there was only 1 seat available out of 3 different carriers and 2 different airports .

 

I guess if it were me....I could go and leave dh at home (but it wouldn't make for a happy hubby....lol)

 

Again, that is what insurance if for. I would check your insurance policy. If it is 2 separate policies, then you might be screwed. I know the policy I bought for my family of four for next year has provisions that if any one of us is unable to make it for covered reasons (flights cancelled would count), we can get our full fares back.

[Cuizer2]

Carnival quickly canceled 3 day cruises. Their affected seven day cruises were delayed until Tuesday or Wednesday. A discussion about whether Carnival or Royal Caribbean have been making announcements quickly enough, without as many Carnival cruisers as Royal Caribbean cruises participating, isn't going to be very informative. If you really want to have that discussion, post a thread on a board that cruises of both cruise lines frequent. And full disclosure, this is not my original though: Someone else posted on the Carnival board this morning how people are bashing Royal Caribbean here for this as much as people there are bashing Carnival for it.

 

The message people should be getting is that they're all the same.

 

And as such we should be discussing industry-wide considerations in that regard - you know, the ones that xpcdoojk just bashed and yet you said nothing in response - since it is foolish for one company to stick its neck out and "do the right thing" when we consumers have proven over and over again that we will punish the higher priced option and reward the lower priced option, and we investors have proven over and over again that we will punish the higher expense/lower profit option and reward the lower expense/higher profit option.

 

There are a lot of posts I have not responded to, including many of yours. You just like to attack me because I am willing to stand up to your bulling.

[wolfganghowell]

Thanks for the laugh jc.

 

I really don't understand why someone who doesn't even sail on Royal spends so much time bickering and berating those who do.

[Luckybee]

If Mr. and Mrs. Smith have that many complications involved in scheduling a vacation they should probably avoid planning cruises in hurricane season in the first place.

 

Well I partly agree with you if you are only talking about booking with Royal....unlike Mr and Mrs Smith in my example dh and I book our holidays at least a year in advance since we are self employed and logistics require us to do so. As I said in another thread I can pretty much tell you where we will be and when right up to the first quarter of 2019. Would I book a cruise in Hurricane season....not with Royal, but I'd have no qualms booking with the cruise lines that I think have treated their customers in a manner that I think is fair...matter of fact we're booked with HAL for November 11th of next year which albeit later is still in hurricane season( mind you we have Royal to thank for that booking but that is another story :) .

 

Maybe Mr and Mrs Smith can only take holidays in the summer because they have 2 school age children. My point was there are so many variables in each individuals life and I try ( not always successfully to consider that not everyone may be in the situation as we are, or have the same finances etc.)

[caribill]

Any seasoned cruiser should understand the risk is higher sailing this time of year. Also by such risk the prices tend to be cheaper for that trade off. I was on the harmony last week in Aug and knew full well that when I booked it life can happened.

 

I suspect your costs for the Harmony in August was less than sailings in September and October.

 

The reason prices are lower in September and October is that, for the Northern hemisphere, summer vacations are over and children are back in school. Thus there is much less demand for cruising.

 

There is also low demand the first three weeks of December, not because of fears of hurricanes, but because people are concentrating on the upcoming holidays.

 

There is also low demand in January, hardly considered hurricane season, because, again, families usually do not cruise when school is back in session.

[Cuizer2]

There is no requirement to offer the FCC at all. They could make it expire 60 days later, or even 30 days later, and still be compliant. The FCC is purely a gift - something the cruise line is offering as a positive gesture.

 

No good deed goes unpunished I suppose.

 

The cruise line is offering FCC when it isn't required to, and yet you choose to accuse them of having no conscience. And really conscience isn't even the point: It's generosity not conscience prompting them to take onto the cruise line some of the impact of the risk the passengers originally agreed to take onto themselves.

 

Let me make sure I understand what you are saying. Are you saying that the cruise line does not have to offer the cruise and then does not have to offer a refund or a credit?

 

Or if the cruise line offers a shortened cruise, that it does not have to refund a prorated share of the cruise fare nor is the cruise line required to offer a prorated credit for the shortened cruise?

 

Have I accurately stated your position? If not, please clarify your position on this.

[caribill]

The Constitution has a Bill of Rights that protects the people. Royal Caribbean offers no similar protections for the passengers in its contract. In fact, nothing in the contract says that the ship is sea worthy.

 

Regarding the bolded. You're correct. However, isn't a consumer responsible for choosing a vendor (in this case a cruise line) has policies they agree with?

 

Can you point to any cruise contract with any cruise line that says the ship will be sea worthy?

 

The choice is thus not to find a cruise line that promises a sea worthy vessel, but to decide if you want a cruise vacation at all.

 

 

I have not looked at them, but I suspect hotels on land do not have contracts with customers that provide for habitable rooms, free from mold, vermin, insects, etc.

[Cuizer2]

Hi All,

 

Just some information I found out about last week. We booked on 9/1/17 to sail to the Bahamas at the end of November. I did not purchase trip insurance and once I saw how bad Irma was getting, I contacted my travel agent and a separate insurance company and they told me that I can purchase insurance still but it I cancelled the trip and it was relating to Irma, then there would not be any coverage. Basically, if you purchase travel insurance and there is already a storm "named" then insrance does not cover any travel issues related to that storm. So on 9/1 Irma was already named so if the Bahamas were taken out and we could not stop at them, we would not be able to cancel. Of course, we love going on a cruise but the main reason for this short cruise junt is to get in a dive day at the Bahamas (since our Cabo San Lucas trip was cancelled due to Tropical Storm Lidia - we haven't had the best of luck this year with travelling in the fall time frame :-) ) and if we couldn't dive we thought that it might be better to cancel. Of course, if we still would have bought the travel insurance, any "named" storm after the date we bought the insurance would fall under covering our travel. I figured that Irma was so bad, any other storm coming through couldn't do much more damage so I opted to forego the insurance. So the morale of this story is to book your cruise earlier than actual hurricane season and to purchase the trip insurance when you book it.

 

Our prayers and thoughts are with everyone who is enduring these terrible storms.

 

That is correct, insurance is for unknown future events, not for known current or past events.

[Luckybee]

Again, that is what insurance if for. I would check your insurance policy. If it is 2 separate policies, then you might be screwed. I know the policy I bought for my family of four for next year has provisions that if any one of us is unable to make it for covered reasons (flights cancelled would count), we can get our full fares back.

 

Im going to try not to beat a dead horse, but if you've been reading these threads you realize that not everyone has insurance, and of those who do some are finding that not everything is covered(including at least one poster on this thread), and finally and imho to me it shouldn't matter. The bottom line is the cruiseline is not providing the product that the consumer purchased. In that equation whether one does or does not have insurance doesn't/shouldn't matter .

[Cuizer2]

 

I totally agree.

 

Will you cover my medical bills? I fell out of my chair when I read this and I hit my head on the way down.