Norovirus outbreak on the Crown

[Griller]

You have a greater chance of catching Noro eating out a restaurant then on a cruise ship so I guess you don't take a risk doing that between October and April. Higher rates for schools, doctor offices, Nursing homes, hospitals, airports, etc. so I guess you just stay home for those six months. After all why put your self at risk.

 

But you apply different criteria when it comes to upper respiratory tract illness which in one of your previous posts on another thread you say you and your wife got multiple times on a cruise ship but not anywhere else.

 

 

 

"RDC1

 

 

Posted October 4th, 2017, 05:46 PM

 

My wife and I both caught an upper respiratory ailment on our recent cruise. The problem with cruising is the relatively closed environment, with a large number of people from different parts of the world which translates into exposure to strains of viruses and bacteria that you may not have previously encountered and have no immunity to.

 

Over the last 3 years we have taken 6 cruises of 12 days or longer (longest 31 days) on all of those 6 either my wife or I or both have contracted upper respiratory infections (6 out of 6).

 

Now before someone says that we are illness prone, during that same time we have taken 8 land tours in excess of 12 days in different parts of the world (longest 32 days), as well as 2 river cruises. All of which involved a substantial numbers of flights.

 

A no time, other than on the cruises, have my wife or I gotten ill. Neither at home, nor on our non-cruise travel.

 

It is enough that we have started to wonder in cruising is worth it. "

[Loonbeam]

Many stewards wear gloves and change them between rooms for their OWN health (and I think under code red they are required to but not sure).

 

Good advice. But also remember that your cabin will be serviced by your steward twice per day. That's two times that someone is coming into your cabin and touching surfaces, after being in other cabins. (Cabin stewards do not, generally, wash hands between cabins.) And for a really nice thought, on some cruises, the same steward that cleans your toilet and cleans your trash (and most cruise lines don't use trash liners) makes your bed...

[elliair]

As of yesterday, there were 184 reported passengers and 12 crew ill on CP. The number of passengers is likely a multiple of that reported number.

 

Some good educational material, including information on food contamination: https://www.cdc.gov/norovirus/downloads/foodhandlers.pdf

 

The Crown Princess has been notorious for being the "Noro" ship. In 2014 we were on the Crown leaving San Pedro. We were delayed 12 hours from boarding due to an extensive cleaning of both the port and the ship. The CDC almost did not let the ship sail due to the aggressive virus and the amount of people that were sick. We were on this same cruise out of Quebec on the 25h of October. The noro appeared about 2 days out of Quebec. When we saw no salt or pepper shakers on the tables, we knew that the virus was there. We were all given a questionnaire put out by the CDC. It was about 8-9 pages long asking questions about the foods you ate, where you ate, blah, blah. I wrote an essay on a blank sheet of paper outlining why noro was on board.

 

Outside the Lido buffet are restrooms. I've been in the restroom to wash my hands before going to the buffet. I've seen women walking out of the restroom without washing their hands. They go directly to the buffet and touch the serving spoons. You see people eating off their plates while in the buffet serving area then lick their fingers after popping something into their mouth. Then they proceed to touch the serving spoons. Look around the tables outside the buffet and you see people eating then licking their fingers. They go back into the food area and touch the serving spoons. In my essay, I asked how the cruise ship intends to stop people from licking their fingers. These are habits that are learned at an early age in life and people don't even realize they are doing it.

 

The proper way to eat melons, is to cut the fruit off the peel and eat it with a fork. Yet look around and people look like their grazing on a corn cob, then licking their fingers to get the juice off instead of using the napkin. Should the cruise line have mandatory proper etiquette classes like they do for muster drill on how to hygienically conduct yourself while on a cruise ship. Yeah, they would get quite a backlash from the passengers - but it's for their own good and for every passenger on board just like the muster drill.

 

DH and I have been on 38 cruises and we've never been sick because we practice what we preach. I overheard a couple of passengers who did get sick say they would never cruise again. That's like saying you'll never stick your fingers in your mouth or never wash your hands after defecating in the restroom. The two go hand-in-hand (no pun intended).

 

So, that CDC questionnaire IMHO was a waste of time. Both the ship's doctor and the CDC know very well how the noro gets started. How does a cruiseline delicately tell adult passengers to practice proper etiquette. Reminding them to wash their hands is about all they can do because they cannot control what people do. /just saying

[elliair]

I would almost bet for every 1 who does report, 3 do not.

 

Yep! No one wants to be confined to their cabin for 3 days. No one wants to go visit the doctor on board. No one wants their meals served to them if they even feel like eating. So, the ones who choose not to report it will go throughout the ship contaminating everything that they touch and that's how it's spread to others who touch their mouth or eyes. Those health forms they hand you before boarding the ship is also a joke. Who is going to be honest in answering the questions truthfully? They can't stop the noro there, not by people not reporting that they are sick. Maybe the naiive ones who have never cruised would report it or the ones deathly ill and need medical attention can't get away with not reporting it. Their cabin steward would report it that's for sure. They are trained what to look for.

Edited November 10, 2017 by elliair

[1emerald1]

I got noro on the Crown on a 7 day Mexico cruise and there is no way I could have roamed around the ship. I've never been so sick in my life. I threw up 24 times the first day. I did report and was quarantined, which was not necessary at all. I reported my case at noon and did not get a call back from the medical staff until 6 pm, asking me if I'd like to come to the medical center for treatment. I told them I was so sick and weak I'd never make it and was astonished that they actually wanted me out in the hallways and public areas further contaminating the ship.

[Pierlesscruisers]

Those health forms they hand you before boarding the ship is also a joke. Who is going to be honest in answering the questions truthfully? They can't stop the noro there, no by people not reporting that they are sick.

 

And if they didn't have those forms what would everybody do? I'll wager that they'd raise a stink, saying "How is anybody supposed to let anybody know they have symptoms?" I will say that the forms are looked at by the people who check you in. Of course I can't speak for all of them but if you don't believe so, just mark one of those answer boxes with a check in the Yes block if you don't believe so. Is everybody honest about filling out the form? I certainly don't believe so but I suspect that the majority are. So I guess what I'm wondering is, if everybody is convinced that the health forms are useless, what, exactly do you have as an alternative plan to try and prevent a noro outbreak? I'm sure that Princess, Holland-America, Cunard, and all the rest of the lines, as well as all the cruisers would love to come up with a feasible plan to prevent such health problems, not only to prevent the problem in the first place but also to reduce costs and workload!

 

Tom

[elliair]

And if they didn't have those forms what would everybody do? I'll wager that they'd raise a stink, saying "How is anybody supposed to let anybody know they have symptoms?" I will say that the forms are looked at by the people who check you in. Of course I can't speak for all of them but if you don't believe so, just mark one of those answer boxes with a check in the Yes block if you don't believe so. Is everybody honest about filling out the form? I certainly don't believe so but I suspect that the majority are. So I guess what I'm wondering is, if everybody is convinced that the health forms are useless, what, exactly do you have as an alternative plan to try and prevent a noro outbreak? I'm sure that Princess, Holland-America, Cunard, and all the rest of the lines, as well as all the cruisers would love to come up with a feasible plan to prevent such health problems, not only to prevent the problem in the first place but also to reduce costs and workload!

 

Tom

 

Everyone received and filled out a form, did it prevent noro? I bet the CDC requires all cruise lines to hand out those questionnaires to make it appear as if something is being done to prevent illnesses. There were people coughing, hacking on the ship. One woman complained of a sore throat the day we boarded. Passengers paid big bucks to go on cruises, and they aren't going to miss out. We met several people who did not have trip insurance, I'm sure that weighs on them if they get sick or are sick. A group of people attending a Metallica concert in San Diego caught Hepatitis A, another disease that spreads like wildfire. Another fecal matter disease.

[Pierlesscruisers]

Everyone received and filled out a form, did it prevent noro? I bet the CDC requires all cruise lines to hand out those questionnaires to make it appear as if something is being done to prevent illnesses. There were people coughing, hacking on the ship. One woman complained of a sore throat the day we boarded. Passengers paid big bucks to go on cruises, and they aren't going to miss out. We met several people who did not have trip insurance, I'm sure that weighs on them if they get sick or are sick. A group of people attending a Metallica concert in San Diego caught Hepatitis A, another disease that spreads like wildfire. Another fecal matter disease.

 

Having a sore throat is not "reportable" (I guess that would be the word) on the form unless it is accompanied by a fever or feverishness so she would probably be correct in marking the form "No." At least it seems that way to me. Normally, if a person has marked the form with a Yes, then the ship's doctor is called who either comes off the ship or talks to the person and makes a determination as to whether they are denied boarding or are boarded and quarantined in their stateroom for some given period. What this all has to do with Hep A at a concert, I have no idea at all. But, enough about, let's move on to more enjoyable subjects.

 

Tom

[Loonbeam]

The form is a CYA - if you do have something malign and don't report it and you board, the line cannot be said to knowingly allow an ill individual on board.

 

Everyone received and filled out a form, did it prevent noro? I bet the CDC requires all cruise lines to hand out those questionnaires to make it appear as if something is being done to prevent illnesses. There were people coughing, hacking on the ship. One woman complained of a sore throat the day we boarded. Passengers paid big bucks to go on cruises, and they aren't going to miss out. We met several people who did not have trip insurance, I'm sure that weighs on them if they get sick or are sick. A group of people attending a Metallica concert in San Diego caught Hepatitis A, another disease that spreads like wildfire. Another fecal matter disease.

[elliair]

Having a sore throat is not "reportable" (I guess that would be the word) on the form unless it is accompanied by a fever or feverishness so she would probably be correct in marking the form "No." At least it seems that way to me. Normally, if a person has marked the form with a Yes, then the ship's doctor is called who either comes off the ship or talks to the person and makes a determination as to whether they are denied boarding or are boarded and quarantined in their stateroom for some given period. What this all has to do with Hep A at a concert, I have no idea at all. But, enough about, let's move on to more enjoyable subjects.

Tom

 

It's just another illness that's spread by unsanitary conditions - fecal matter. I'll move on when the problem gets solved okay?

 

Loonbeam

Today 03:12 PM

 

The form is a CYA - if you do have something malign and don't report it and you board, the line cannot be said to knowingly allow an ill individual on board.

 

Yes, exactly, CYA.

[metairiegal]

Any reports from the Crown this cruise?

[Steelers36]

Any reports from the Crown this cruise?

 

I have two family members on the ship and they have not reported anything bad. I didn't ask specifically if they have heard of any new cases.

[Kingofcool1947]

It's just another illness that's spread by unsanitary conditions - fecal matter. I'll move on when the problem gets solved okay?

 

 

 

Yes, exactly, CYA.

 

CYA aka Clean Your A*s, and don’t forget to throughly wash your hands with soap and hot water for at least 20 seconds?

But, isn’t NV caught through airborne coughing, and vomiting, not from PAXs with bits of poop residue left on their hands? Doesn't poop cause e.coli, not NV?

And, although there is a Princess staff at the HC buffet entry hand sanitizer station, some PAX complain about the request to sanitize their hands before getting handed their plate and utensils. What’s up with that?

Also, have you seen PAXs enter/re-enter the buffet area through the unmonitored buffet EXIT?

[RDC1]

But you apply different criteria when it comes to upper respiratory tract illness which in one of your previous posts on another thread you say you and your wife got multiple times on a cruise ship but not anywhere else.

 

 

 

"RDC1

 

 

Posted October 4th, 2017, 05:46 PM

 

My wife and I both caught an upper respiratory ailment on our recent cruise. The problem with cruising is the relatively closed environment, with a large number of people from different parts of the world which translates into exposure to strains of viruses and bacteria that you may not have previously encountered and have no immunity to.

 

Over the last 3 years we have taken 6 cruises of 12 days or longer (longest 31 days) on all of those 6 either my wife or I or both have contracted upper respiratory infections (6 out of 6).

 

Now before someone says that we are illness prone, during that same time we have taken 8 land tours in excess of 12 days in different parts of the world (longest 32 days), as well as 2 river cruises. All of which involved a substantial numbers of flights.

 

A no time, other than on the cruises, have my wife or I gotten ill. Neither at home, nor on our non-cruise travel.

 

It is enough that we have started to wonder in cruising is worth it. "

Yep, far more people come down with upper respiratory illness on a cruise ship than noro. However gi illnesses like noro are tracked and reported whereas upper respiratory are not.

 

However this discussion was specifically about noro and risk, not upper respiratory or general cruise ship illnesses.

[suzyed]

It's just another illness that's spread by unsanitary conditions - fecal matter. I'll move on when the problem gets solved okay?

 

 

 

Yes, exactly, CYA.

Agree! Especially since we are on the Crown next week!!:eek:

We were on the Crown out of San Pedro in 2014 and had a huge outbreak! If you read the report about it, it doesn't even come close to disclosing how widespread it was. There were hundreds of passengers and maybe 80 crew who were sick. My DH got it and it was horrible!

We reported it and all they did was confine him to the cabin and only let him order off a prescribed list of bland foods. They didn't test him, offer to treat him or have him answer any questions. However, I truly believe he got it in the market in Tahiti where we ordered sandwiches...NEVER AGAIN!! A bunch of others ate at the food trucks on the pier. That is when most of cases came to light...but I KNOW there were a few others who were sick and did not report it.

[dickinson]

I'm currently on the Crown. On Thursday at noon the Captain said no new cases of illness. On Friday he did not say anything about it so I assume no new cases again. We are not going to the Horizon Court but eating in MDR. Butter on the table is wrapped like you get in a restaurant. They are putting rolls on the table. We met some people who were on the cruise before. They said when it got to FT Lauderdale all the in transit people had to get off while they sanitized. They had two buses that Princess provided to take them to a local mall. They also got $25 each to spend for lunch. One person told us jokingly "my wife spent $300 at the mall. Thanks princess"!

 

Having a great cruise. Even though they said not to shake hands with people we have found that even the crew is doing it!

[suzyed]

I'm currently on the Crown. On Thursday at noon the Captain said no new cases of illness. On Friday he did not say anything about it so I assume no new cases again. We are not going to the Horizon Court but eating in MDR. Butter on the table is wrapped like you get in a restaurant. They are putting rolls on the table. We met some people who were on the cruise before. They said when it got to FT Lauderdale all the in transit people had to get off while they sanitized. They had two buses that Princess provided to take them to a local mall. They also got $25 each to spend for lunch. One person told us jokingly "my wife spent $300 at the mall. Thanks princess"!

 

Having a great cruise. Even though they said not to shake hands with people we have found that even the crew is doing it!

Thanks for that info. How many did they say were sick? Is there any talk of the CDC coming on after this cruise or any talk of "sanitizing" after you guys get off? We get on Monday.

[voljeep]

excellent question as we get on Monday also. really would like to know in advance if the boarding times are changed. you are aware that the Crown is going out of Terminal 21 and will come back into Terminal 2 - the main Princess terminal.. We are using Park and Go for that reason as once before we came back into a different terminal and it took well over an hour for the 'free' shuttles to take us back to 2

[Steelers36]

They won't be sanitizing again ("deep clean") if nothing breaks out.

[voljeep]

well, since Dickinson is currently on the Crown, maybe a post of exactly what is going on will be made

[suzyed]

excellent question as we get on Monday also. really would like to know in advance if the boarding times are changed. you are aware that the Crown is going out of Terminal 21 and will come back into Terminal 2 - the main Princess terminal.. We are using Park and Go for that reason as once before we came back into a different terminal and it took well over an hour for the 'free' shuttles to take us back to 2

Ditto on the Park and Go for us for that very reason!

[Steelers36]

well, since Dickinson is currently on the Crown, maybe a post of exactly what is going on will be made

 

So are two of my family members.

[suzyed]

So are two of my family members.

Are they well? Didn't get sick?

[dickinson]

Nothing is going on any longer. Everything’s normal. :)

[Steelers36]

Are they well? Didn't get sick?

 

Yes, why would they get sick?