NavarreCruiser Posted January 28, 2018 #1 Share Posted January 28, 2018 Some interesting stats. from the website Cruise Market Watch: 2018 Worldwide Cruise Line Market Share The 2018 total worldwide ocean cruise industry is estimated at $45.6 billion (a 4.6% increase over 2017) with 26.0 million annualized passengers carried (a 3.3% increase over 2017). Brand diversification of all operations is summarized below. Line # of ships PAX Capacity % of PAX %of total revenue Royal Caribbean 26 84,700 19.2% 14.0% Carnival 26 71,300 22.0% 8.9% Norwegian 16 46,600 8.0% 8.4% MSC 15 44,600 7.2% 6.8% Princess 17 42,000 6.4% 9.1% Sorry, that in spite of my best efforts this page keeps removing my spaces and squishing together my graph columns. Anyway, even though Carnival has the highest percentage of passengers at 22% these passengers, us, are only giving Carnival 8.9% of the total worldwide revenue, less than Carnival Corporations 2nd largest line, Princess, which has only 6.4% of the passengers but gets 9.1& of the revenue. I guarantee some Miami bean counting beards are aware of these numbers and are trying to improve them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProgRockCruiser Posted January 28, 2018 #2 Share Posted January 28, 2018 Interesting stats! Thanks! Yeah, that does give some possible insight into recent changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic6318 Posted January 28, 2018 #3 Share Posted January 28, 2018 Hi I am not exactly sure what you are getting at. Companies main obligation is always to increase profits. Subsidiaries within a corporate umbrella have their own specific goals set by the corporate head. Of course any given subsidiary within a group is going to try to outperform their goals but a company such as Princess is not competing with HAL for instance. It is the responsibility of the corporate head to find ways where the components of its structure are able to maximize profitability of the whole compared to others in its industrial group. So when we see the performance of a stock such as CCL compared to RCL it is a comparison of all the components and not a specific subsidiary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retired_to_Cruise Posted January 28, 2018 #4 Share Posted January 28, 2018 Some interesting stats. from the website Cruise Market Watch: 2018 Worldwide Cruise Line Market Share The 2018 total worldwide ocean cruise industry is estimated at $45.6 billion (a 4.6% increase over 2017) with 26.0 million annualized passengers carried (a 3.3% increase over 2017). Brand diversification of all operations is summarized below. Line # of ships PAX Capacity % of PAX %of total revenue Royal Caribbean 26 84,700 19.2% 14.0% Carnival 26 71,300 22.0% 8.9% Norwegian 16 46,600 8.0% 8.4% MSC 15 44,600 7.2% 6.8% Princess 17 42,000 6.4% 9.1% Sorry, that in spite of my best efforts this page keeps removing my spaces and squishing together my graph columns. Anyway, even though Carnival has the highest percentage of passengers at 22% these passengers, us, are only giving Carnival 8.9% of the total worldwide revenue, less than Carnival Corporations 2nd largest line, Princess, which has only 6.4% of the passengers but gets 9.1& of the revenue. I guarantee some Miami bean counting beards are aware of these numbers and are trying to improve them How about a slightly different perspective? Higher market share with lower cost will lead to a smaller share of the total worldwide revenue. To have the real answer that you are pretending you already have, you need another key number - where does each cruise line fit in the cruise cost spectrum. When you get that number for each cruise line, you may be able to support the premise that you are pretending to make. Otherwise, you are doing nothing but blowing smoke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bury me at sea Posted January 28, 2018 #5 Share Posted January 28, 2018 How about a slightly different perspective? Higher market share with lower cost will lead to a smaller share of the total worldwide revenue. To have the real answer that you are pretending you already have, you need another key number - where does each cruise line fit in the cruise cost spectrum. When you get that number for each cruise line, you may be able to support the premise that you are pretending to make. Otherwise, you are doing nothing but blowing smoke. Wow. Somewhat defensive today? I didn't read any nefarious intent behind the original post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bUU Posted January 28, 2018 #6 Share Posted January 28, 2018 Hi I am not exactly sure what you are getting at. Companies main obligation is always to increase profits. Subsidiaries within a corporate umbrella have their own specific goals set by the corporate head. Of course any given subsidiary within a group is going to try to outperform their goals but a company such as Princess is not competing with HAL for instance. It is the responsibility of the corporate head to find ways where the components of its structure are able to maximize profitability of the whole compared to others in its industrial group. So when we see the performance of a stock such as CCL compared to RCL it is a comparison of all the components and not a specific subsidiary. I agree with you that a company's main obligation is always to increase profits, and I agree with you with regard to the points you've made as they pertain to Carnival Cruise Line itself. However I think there is something to say about Princess and Holland America and where they both fit into the CCL Corporation vision. I've said several times in this forum that it makes a lot of sense to have three brands with Carnival at the bottom and Seabourn at the top. I really don't understand the point of having four brands in that portion of the spectrum. There just doesn't seem to be enough room. None of the competitors have four North American Market-focused brands in that portion of the spectrum. I have no doubt in my mind that if CCL Corporation thought that they could repaint one of Holland America's ships with Princess livery and get a better return on investment they would do it. And the numbers seem to be saying that that is the case or at least trending in that direction. So that translates to me into saying that either Holland America needs to find a way to become as healthy financially as Princess or there won't be a Holland America at least not one that long time Holland America cruise passengers would recognized as such. This post may have been entered by voice recognition. Please excuse any typographical errors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic6318 Posted January 28, 2018 #7 Share Posted January 28, 2018 However I think there is something to say about Princess and Holland America and where they both fit into the CCL Corporation vision. I've said several times in this forum that it makes a lot of sense to have three brands with Carnival at the bottom and Seabourn at the top. I really don't understand the point of having four brands in that portion of the spectrum. There just doesn't seem to be enough room. None of the competitors have four North American Market-focused brands in that portion of the spectrum. I have no doubt in my mind that if CCL Corporation thought that they could repaint one of Holland America's ships with Princess livery and get a better return on investment they would do it. And the numbers seem to be saying that that is the case or at least trending in that direction. So that translates to me into saying that either Holland America needs to find a way to become as healthy financially as Princess or there won't be a Holland America at least not one that long time Holland America cruise passengers would recognized as such. This post may have been entered by voice recognition. Please excuse any typographical errors. Hi Again, all I am just trying to suggest that looking at specific components doesn't necessarily matter when the results of the whole are very good. Similar to managing a sports team, you have to work with what you have. Changes in this situation are big. Working with what you have necessitates optimizing each component. Since I am not there and don't have all relevant data, nor the responsibility, I am satisfied to just gauge the success of those decision makers by looking at share price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsotm73 Posted January 28, 2018 #8 Share Posted January 28, 2018 Sorry, that in spite of my best efforts this page keeps removing my spaces and squishing together my graph columns. Anyway, even though Carnival has the highest percentage of passengers at 22% these passengers, us, are only giving Carnival 8.9% of the total worldwide revenue, less than Carnival Corporations 2nd largest line, Princess, which has only 6.4% of the passengers but gets 9.1& of the revenue. I guarantee some Miami bean counting beards are aware of these numbers and are trying to improve them But your premise outlined in your post is that Carnival beards are trying to raise revenues to correct the discrepancy in passenger share vs revenue share. Your title addresses profits, which are different than revenues. If Carnival was unhappy with the passenger share vs revenue share ratio, would they not be raising prices (to raise revenue) rather than cutting costs (to increase profit)? I would argue that Carnival is happy being the value cruiseline ( and maintaining a high passenger share vs revenue share ratio), and is cutting costs where they can to improve profits, as most corporations try to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pellaz Posted January 28, 2018 #9 Share Posted January 28, 2018 I would argue that Carnival is happy being the value cruiseline ( and maintaining a high passenger share vs revenue share ratio), and is cutting costs where they can to improve profits, as most corporations try to do. This is pretty much it in a nutshell, IMO. What the graph basically shows is something that we all pretty much knew instinctively: as a general rule, Carnival DOES charge less than other lines. That they continue to charge less, but offer (for example) more "free"/included specialty dining options than many of their competitors, says a lot. And sure, I'd expect them to try to improve profits in other ways. It's their responsibility as a corporation to a) stay in business, and then b) make something for their shareholders while still providing an enjoyable (read "fun") customer experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevefrisco Posted January 28, 2018 #10 Share Posted January 28, 2018 I just got dumber reading all these posts. Thanks guys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purvis1231 Posted January 28, 2018 #11 Share Posted January 28, 2018 One aspect of Carnival's business plan is that carnival is an entry level line and that many Carnival cruises will move on to the higher priced sister lines. One Carnival cruise will allow you to get past guest rates on the sister lines but this is generally higher than a Carnival cruise. RCCL and similar plan with their higher priced sister lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
summersigh Posted January 28, 2018 #12 Share Posted January 28, 2018 Another thought ... Carnival is the company's budget tier - entry level, younger cruisers looking to party, and/or families. Carnival places ships in small markets where folks can travel by car rather than expensive air fares. It seems from people I've talked to and posts I've read other places that eventually Carnival becomes the "trainer" line for the company's higher priced tiers Princess, HAL and Cunard. As many passengers age and their families grow up they're looking for a different cruise experience and they're in a position to be able to spend more on the leisure activities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marshhawk Posted January 28, 2018 #13 Share Posted January 28, 2018 One aspect of Carnival's business plan is that carnival is an entry level line and that many Carnival cruises will move on to the higher priced sister lines. One Carnival cruise will allow you to get past guest rates on the sister lines but this is generally higher than a Carnival cruise. RCCL and similar plan with their higher priced sister lines. I have been a Carnival die hard since I started cruising as an adult- what I do hear from folks that cruise more than one cruise line, when I am on Carnival, the cabins are bigger, on Carnival, the food is better, on Carnival, but ....there is more to do on other ships than trivia. I am sure there is more to do than on Carnival, I'm just too relaxed to do it-which is why I cruise in the first place.;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawkIVette Posted January 28, 2018 #14 Share Posted January 28, 2018 Some interesting stats. from the website Cruise Market Watch: 2018 Worldwide Cruise Line Market Share The 2018 total worldwide ocean cruise industry is estimated at $45.6 billion (a 4.6% increase over 2017) with 26.0 million annualized passengers carried (a 3.3% increase over 2017). Brand diversification of all operations is summarized below. Line # of ships PAX Capacity % of PAX %of total revenue Royal Caribbean 26 84,700 19.2% 14.0% Carnival 26 71,300 22.0% 8.9% Norwegian 16 46,600 8.0% 8.4% MSC 15 44,600 7.2% 6.8% Princess 17 42,000 6.4% 9.1% WOW. That is amazing. But if you put little dots between the numbers, your problem is solved. Line..................... # of ships.........PAX Capacity........ % of PAX......... %of total revenue Royal Caribbean..... 26........ 84,700....... 19.2%......... 14.0% Carnival.................. 26......... 71,300....... 22.0%.......... 8.9% Norwegian.............. 16......... 46,600 ........8.0%............ 8.4% MSC ........................15........ 44,600........ 7.2%........... 6.8% Princess....................17........ 42,000 ........6.4%.......... 9.1% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riffatsea Posted January 28, 2018 #15 Share Posted January 28, 2018 Carnival Corporation stock is doing so well that I don't really care what their plans are! They are now going after the spanish speaking market with more ad in Spanish but all corporations seek to improve their profits. I just never understand how things are expected to always continue going up?? Not just the stock(which can fluctuate) but profits? I'd expect there to be a saturation point somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavarreCruiser Posted January 28, 2018 Author #16 Share Posted January 28, 2018 How about a slightly different perspective? Higher market share with lower cost will lead to a smaller share of the total worldwide revenue. To have the real answer that you are pretending you already have, you need another key number - where does each cruise line fit in the cruise cost spectrum. When you get that number for each cruise line, you may be able to support the premise that you are pretending to make. Otherwise, you are doing nothing but blowing smoke. We all know that Carnival cruise line is Carnival corporate's lowest priced and most mainstream line. And thusly will draw a smaller amount of total revenues. Even though Princess and Holland America are sister lines under Carnival corporate, they still are each attempting to attract customers from the cruisers and potential cruisers demographic. Hence to a degree, they are competitors. And I am not pretending to make a point, the numbers speak for themselves. And if you think that Carnival cruise line executives are perfectly happy with 22% of the passenger traffic and less than 9% of the revenue, while sister line Princess has just over 6% of the passengers and just over 9% of the revenue then you do not have much business acumen. ' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavarreCruiser Posted January 28, 2018 Author #17 Share Posted January 28, 2018 WOW. That is amazing. But if you put little dots between the numbers, your problem is solved. Line..................... # of ships.........PAX Capacity........ % of PAX......... %of total revenue Royal Caribbean..... 26........ 84,700....... 19.2%......... 14.0% Carnival.................. 26......... 71,300....... 22.0%.......... 8.9% Norwegian.............. 16......... 46,600 ........8.0%............ 8.4% MSC ........................15........ 44,600........ 7.2%........... 6.8% Princess....................17........ 42,000 ........6.4%.......... 9.1% Thanks, Hawklvette, good to know for next time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkacruiser Posted January 28, 2018 #18 Share Posted January 28, 2018 As the OP NavarreCruiser, From where did you get your data? Previous posters on this thread have mentioned HAL's performance under the CCL umbrella. No data on HAL is shown that I can see posted here. And, indeed, it is my understanding that there is no public information available as to the financial performance of the individual Carnival Corporation Operating Companies. If I am wrong in what I have been told, I would surely appreciate how my broker and I can access that specific information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaded Lady Posted January 28, 2018 #19 Share Posted January 28, 2018 I just got dumber reading all these posts. Thanks guys LOL! Not to mention I also have a headache now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcpagejr Posted January 28, 2018 #20 Share Posted January 28, 2018 We all know that Carnival cruise line is Carnival corporate's lowest priced and most mainstream line. And thusly will draw a smaller amount of total revenues. Even though Princess and Holland America are sister lines under Carnival corporate, they still are each attempting to attract customers from the cruisers and potential cruisers demographic. Hence to a degree, they are competitors. And I am not pretending to make a point, the numbers speak for themselves. And if you think that Carnival cruise line executives are perfectly happy with 22% of the passenger traffic and less than 9% of the revenue, while sister line Princess has just over 6% of the passengers and just over 9% of the revenue then you do not have much business acumen.' Bob...I agree with you 100%..... Your largest fleet of ships is not going to be a loss (or low profit) leader, regardless if they have their other lines making more profit. I'm sure they are willing to take a lower profit due to their pricing strategies but have to still be looking at the bottom line. It does cost money to run, insure and maintain those ships!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsotm73 Posted January 29, 2018 #21 Share Posted January 29, 2018 Where in those cited statistics is there a mention of profits? Sent from my iPhone using Forums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salty dingo Posted January 29, 2018 #22 Share Posted January 29, 2018 Royal Caribbean is better at extracting money from guests... sort of like Disney World. That's the main reason I have not patronized RCCL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjrpar Posted January 29, 2018 #23 Share Posted January 29, 2018 Hard to believe that Carnival has more market share than RCCL. 22% sounds high to me Sent from my iPhone using Forums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare chrismch Posted January 29, 2018 #24 Share Posted January 29, 2018 This is where the cruise lines make their money... from alcohol sales; casino, spa and photography activities; and shore excursions. They want to see passengers spend $1,000+ each per 7-day cruise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retired_to_Cruise Posted January 29, 2018 #25 Share Posted January 29, 2018 All I know is that I bought 100 shares of Carnival Stock 2 years ago at $49 + change a share in my 401k account.. As of this morning it is $71 + change a share. Add to that the $280 in dividends and the $900+ in OBC that I was given over those 2 years all tax free. Carnival Corporation has made $2.779 billion in profit in 2016 with $16.389 billion in revenue. Looks like they are actually doing things right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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