service charge question

[FucusVesiculosus]

Thank you!

[C cruise]

I really appreciate all these answers - hubby and I are from both schools of thought - I'd like to pay the service charge and then tip cash here and there as deserved ... he doesn't want to pay the service charge and wants to tip cash as deserved...

[ray98]

How do you guys know if NCL doesn't just pocket the daily service charge and not pay the money to their employees? It is a well known fact that cruise workers are underpaid even if they are paid a daily service charge or not.

 

 

Well...they have no shortage of workers with seniority, it isn't uncommon to find people with 5 to 10 years experience. That tells you the salary is comparable to the competition or most of the experienced employees would jump to other lines. NCL isn't the only game in town.

Edited March 4, 2018 by ray98

[Something fun!]

Don't be cheap, pay the daily service charge. It covers wages for crew you see and crew you don't see. You certainly are welcome to tip over and above the daily service charge. The crew you interact with really do appreciate it.

 

THIS!!!!!:halo::cool:<3:champagne-toast:

[BandM]

I really appreciate all these answers - hubby and I are from both schools of thought - I'd like to pay the service charge and then tip cash here and there as deserved ... he doesn't want to pay the service charge and wants to tip cash as deserved...

 

Have you been on a cruise before? Sounds to me like he doesn’t want the extra charges adding up throughout the week. Just pay the DSC and tip above and beyond if you want. All the employees work their asses off all week, you see them late at night and right back at it first thing in the morning.

Edited March 4, 2018 by BandM
Spelling

[fshagan]

How do you guys know if NCL doesn't just pocket the daily service charge and not pay the money to their employees? It is a well known fact that cruise workers are underpaid even if they are paid a daily service charge or not.

 

Here's how we know the workers are not being exploited: They renew their contracts with NCL when they could easily go with any other cruise line. I have met people on board who have worked for the cruise line for many years. They like what they do. They renew their contracts with their employer every 6 to 9 months. They are not underpaid. They are paid enough to make them happy, support themselves, and enjoy their jobs.

 

I don't care what NCL does with my money. The employees are happy. I am not supporting exploitation by paying my cruise fare or DSC.

[sjbdtz]

Has anyone opted out of paying the service charge and just tipped on your own? and if not who does the service charge cover for tips?

 

 

On a related note, has anybody ever gone to the kitchen to cook their own food, or are you just satisfied that the cruise line has taken care of this element on their behalf?

 

 

 

I will never understand people who want to take something simple, then dissect it & make it difficult. When presented with: "don't worry about tipping, it's all taken care of in this handy-dandy DSC", they respond with - but how do I know who gets what?

 

Well guess what? When you pay for a visit at your Doctor's office, you don't know what portion goes to the receptionist, nor the nurse, the dietician, and finally the doctor themselves. That's because it's generally accepted that it's nobody's business how much others are earning.

 

Same thing at the auto mechanic's. How much for the Service Manager? Representatives? Car jockeys? Carwashers, dealership manager, Owner/Franchisee, Same answer.

 

 

And the grocery store. Shelf stockers, pricers, cashiers, shift supervisors, managers, orderers, section managers, etc. I have no idea what portion of the $3.99 I paid for my Frosted Flakes goes to each one.

 

And the hairdresser, restaurant, and other places where tipping is customary...

 

AND I DON'T CARE. It's all taken care of, and wrapped in a neat bow for me.

 

Life's too short to be second-guessing & re-constructing every program with which I interact.

 

 

 

Stephen

 

 

,

[iluvit!]

I think the reason many want to know where the tip/dsc goes is that until a few years ago, everyone tipped at the end of the cruise. You took care of your servers and cabin attendant and I guess they took care of these “behind the scenes” people that we might now neglect. Since the cruiser decided how much to tip each worker, is it unusual that they wonder who is getting what under the new system?

 

 

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[KeithJenner]

I think the reason many want to know where the tip/dsc goes is that until a few years ago, everyone tipped at the end of the cruise. You took care of your servers and cabin attendant and I guess they took care of these “behind the scenes” people that we might now neglect. Since the cruiser decided how much to tip each worker, is it unusual that they wonder who is getting what under the new system?

 

 

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No, I still don’t get why it’s so important.

 

It’s been taken out of our hands. That means we don’t need to worry about these things any more. It’s done for us and we can just get on with enjoying our cruise. The last thing I want to be worrying about is how much the guy serving me earns. That’s between him and his employer, just like I believe it should be.

 

 

 

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[mjkacmom]

I think the reason many want to know where the tip/dsc goes is that until a few years ago, everyone tipped at the end of the cruise. You took care of your servers and cabin attendant and I guess they took care of these “behind the scenes” people that we might now neglect. Since the cruiser decided how much to tip each worker, is it unusual that they wonder who is getting what under the new system?

 

 

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This system was in place on our first NCL cruise 13 years ago.

[iluvit!]

Been cruising for 30 yrs, only once on NCL in 2002. So,relatively speaking,the practice of charging the dsc/tip to onboard account newish.

 

 

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[smplybcause]

I think the reason many want to know where the tip/dsc goes is that until a few years ago, everyone tipped at the end of the cruise. You took care of your servers and cabin attendant and I guess they took care of these “behind the scenes” people that we might now neglect. Since the cruiser decided how much to tip each worker, is it unusual that they wonder who is getting what under the new system?

 

 

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When I cruised before they started adding the daily fee (which admittedly wasn't that many times) the cruise line still told you a minimum suggested amount to tip each person per day. It's just switched to one amount instead of several and you don't have to bring a crap ton of cash with you because it goes on your account.

 

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[C cruise]

Have you been on a cruise before? Sounds to me like he doesn’t want the extra charges adding up throughout the week. Just pay the DSC and tip above and beyond if you want. All the employees work their asses off all week, you see them late at night and right back at it first thing in the morning.

 

My first cruise - so I want to make sure I know all the ins and outs.. hubby cruised before but years ago when they gave the envelope at the end..

[Wannacruise81]

I used to work on cruise ships in the guest service area and had friends who worked in the restaurants and food service department.

To answer the question of where does the daily service charge go, you have to go back to how tips were distributed before automatic gratuities and freestyle cruising.

The traditional way was that you were given a recommended suggested amount per day per person. This money went straight to the service member that served you for that week (room attendant, waiter, asst waiter and maitre'd) Just like waiters in the US, the cruise company paid a very small amount monthly to the crew member (around $200) and the crew member kept all the cash tips he got from those envelopes. Of course guests put extra money in these envelopes because back in the day, service was exceptional compared to the sub par service once the automatic gratuities were implemented. A waiter could make as much as $3,500-$5,000 a month from their tips - tax free. Now most of the food service workers are from countries like the Philippines where that type of money would have them living like kings and queens in their country. The cruise lines see this and want to take some of this money AWAY from the crew who has worked so hard. Enter automatic gratuities and salaried food service workers. When this happened, a mass exodus of crew left the cruise industry and went on to work elsewhere. The new salary that the cruise lines paid averaged around $1500 a month. So yes the salary went up $1300 but now guess who gets the rest of the money--Big Business Corporate. So basically if the crew member stayed, they were taking a $2,000 or more loss a month. The cruise line pockets the rest, which in theory is messed up. They want you to believe it is going to the behind the scenes crew, but in reality yes you are paying the salaries of the behind the scenes crew so the company doesnt have to, when originally they did. Shouldnt the company pay their employees?

[Two Wheels Only]

Shouldnt the company pay their employees?

 

They do....with the money provided by the guest. One way or another, the guest pays the employees.

[NLH Arizona]

I think the reason many want to know where the tip/dsc goes is that until a few years ago, everyone tipped at the end of the cruise. You took care of your servers and cabin attendant and I guess they took care of these “behind the scenes” people that we might now neglect. Since the cruiser decided how much to tip each worker, is it unusual that they wonder who is getting what under the new system?

 

 

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no, not everyone tipped at the end of the cruise and I'm sure that is why most cruise lines when to the automatic service charge/gratuities.

[latebloomer56]

I used to work on cruise ships in the guest service area and had friends who worked in the restaurants and food service department.

To answer the question of where does the daily service charge go, you have to go back to how tips were distributed before automatic gratuities and freestyle cruising.

The traditional way was that you were given a recommended suggested amount per day per person. This money went straight to the service member that served you for that week (room attendant, waiter, asst waiter and maitre'd) Just like waiters in the US, the cruise company paid a very small amount monthly to the crew member (around $200) and the crew member kept all the cash tips he got from those envelopes. Of course guests put extra money in these envelopes because back in the day, service was exceptional compared to the sub par service once the automatic gratuities were implemented. A waiter could make as much as $3,500-$5,000 a month from their tips - tax free. Now most of the food service workers are from countries like the Philippines where that type of money would have them living like kings and queens in their country. The cruise lines see this and want to take some of this money AWAY from the crew who has worked so hard. Enter automatic gratuities and salaried food service workers. When this happened, a mass exodus of crew left the cruise industry and went on to work elsewhere. The new salary that the cruise lines paid averaged around $1500 a month. So yes the salary went up $1300 but now guess who gets the rest of the money--Big Business Corporate. So basically if the crew member stayed, they were taking a $2,000 or more loss a month. The cruise line pockets the rest, which in theory is messed up. They want you to believe it is going to the behind the scenes crew, but in reality yes you are paying the salaries of the behind the scenes crew so the company doesnt have to, when originally they did. Shouldnt the company pay their employees?

Thank you for this, it is close to what a friend told us who worked for Princess many years ago

Personally I like the auto charges because I feel I don't miss anybody. But I to have seen the service level go down a bit. I have however left our steward a little extra now and then and almost always go see the person who made my latte everyday.

Question for you? Was told cash given if auto remove had to be turned in or that person could be fired. Not sure about this but have met a few folk's that always remove any auto charge toward the end of the cruise. If it didn't matter why wait, I wonder.

[sjbdtz]

I used to work on cruise ships in the guest service area and had friends who worked in the restaurants and food service department.

To answer the question of where does the daily service charge go, you have to go back to how tips were distributed before automatic gratuities and freestyle cruising.

 

The cruise lines see this and want to take some of this money AWAY from the crew who has worked so hard. Enter automatic gratuities and salaried food service workers. When this happened, a mass exodus of crew left the cruise industry and went on to work elsewhere. The new salary that the cruise lines paid averaged around $1500 a month. So yes the salary went up $1300 but now guess who gets the rest of the money--Big Business Corporate. So basically if the crew member stayed, they were taking a $2,000 or more loss a month. The cruise line pockets the rest, which in theory is messed up. They want you to believe it is going to the behind the scenes crew, but in reality yes you are paying the salaries of the behind the scenes crew so the company doesnt have to, when originally they did. Shouldnt the company pay their employees?

 

 

So I have some questions:

 

- did the front-line workers KEEP the money in the envelopes, or did they use some of it to grease the palms of those who enabled them? The laundry workers, so that the Cabin Steward had all the supplies they needed....the dishwashers, so that they could keep their stations well-stocked? I used to own a restaurant. This type of tip-out happened on a regular basis.

 

 

- this one is about your comment that corporate pockets the money. If what you say is true, this is the most stupid corporate decision I've ever seen. Under your theory that the cruise line should pay their employees, and ostensibly they're using this surcharge in order to do that... WHY oh WHY would they make it optional?

 

Under this theory, you could negotiate your fare, the bar bill, the auto-grats for spa & bar, the cost of the specialty restaurants, etc.

 

What is far more likely, IMHO as someone with a Master's in International Management, is that corporate collects an aggregate amount of DSC and apportions it among both front & back-of-house, in percentages designated to the individual based upon their own performance - as determined by a combination of passenger feedback (Vacation Hero) and supervisor's direct commentary.

 

The POOL is dependent on what DSC contributes, but the % share (whether it's in addition to salary or as a surplus - that is, if your advance of $1500 is covered by DSC, you get extra...if not, you just get the $1500) is fixed based on your performance evaluation.

 

 

I can understand and accept the latter scenario, and find the former (your accusation) highly unlikely.

 

 

Stephen

 

 

.

[Wannacruise81]

Question for you? Was told cash given if auto remove had to be turned in or that person could be fired. Not sure about this but have met a few folk's that always remove any auto charge toward the end of the cruise. If it didn't matter why wait, I wonder.

 

Yes any cash given by a guest who removed the tips needs to be turned in. However, sometimes the crew member may say they never received anything and just pocket the money. If caught-yes termination.

[Sam Ting]

Yes any cash given by a guest who removed the tips needs to be turned in. However, sometimes the crew member may say they never received anything and just pocket the money. If caught-yes termination.

 

We remove the optional charges and give the cabin steward $50-100 a week, and the waiters $10-15 per lunch or dinner at a sit down restaurant. If we go to the buffet, we will usually leave 5 bucks or so.

 

Removing the charge is allowed for in the contract (US) for any or no reason whatsoever.

 

Never had a complaint from any of the crew, in fact, we seem to get better service!!

[Wannacruise81]

So I have some questions:

 

- did the front-line workers KEEP the money in the envelopes, or did they use some of it to grease the palms of those who enabled them? The laundry workers, so that the Cabin Steward had all the supplies they needed....the dishwashers, so that they could keep their stations well-stocked? I used to own a restaurant. This type of tip-out happened on a regular basis.

 

 

- this one is about your comment that corporate pockets the money. If what you say is true, this is the most stupid corporate decision I've ever seen. Under your theory that the cruise line should pay their employees, and ostensibly they're using this surcharge in order to do that... WHY oh WHY would they make it optional?

 

Under this theory, you could negotiate your fare, the bar bill, the auto-grats for spa & bar, the cost of the specialty restaurants, etc.

 

What is far more likely, IMHO as someone with a Master's in International Management, is that corporate collects an aggregate amount of DSC and apportions it among both front & back-of-house, in percentages designated to the individual based upon their own performance - as determined by a combination of passenger feedback (Vacation Hero) and supervisor's direct commentary.

 

The POOL is dependent on what DSC contributes, but the % share (whether it's in addition to salary or as a surplus - that is, if your advance of $1500 is covered by DSC, you get extra...if not, you just get the $1500) is fixed based on your performance evaluation.

 

 

I can understand and accept the latter scenario, and find the former (your accusation) highly unlikely.

 

 

Stephen

 

 

.

 

*Yes there was a lot of "greasing the palms" as you call it going on with the front line workers. Waiters would pay the chefs to ensure they got the freshest and hottest foods out to their guests. Because we all know if food quality and service were great=happy customer which means more $$ from the tips and also higher ratings on the guest surveys. I forgot to mention that the surveys played a huge role affecting the waiters or room stewards salaries. Excellent ratings got you bigger tables or more rooms which means more tips. If your ratings were less than excellent, you were provided with small tables and less rooms. Food service is a tough job and it could be a cut throat position.

 

*Corporate is pocketing the money these hard working crew members used to make. Most of the crew members who worked under the old tipping system are long gone. Corporate saw an opportunity for making more money by making automatic gratuities even if some percentage of cruisers took away or lowered this charge. As I said before , waiters and room stewards used to make $3500-$5000+ a month tax free from tips with a $200 salary per month. Now the crew member is making $1500 per month but don't get the tip envelopes, so where is the rest of the money going to since the daily service charge has actually increased?

 

*As far as the bar servers and bartenders, they are still under the old system where they are receiving a low salary but receive the 15-20% gratuity included in the bill. This is why you see them going around the theaters and lounges hustling to get drink orders. The spa is actually a outside company contracted by the cruise line. So their tips are based on what the contracted company charges.

 

*The "bonuses" are not cash given to the actual crew member like the cruise line wants you to believe. It goes into a crew welfare which provides discounts on some tours, a crew party, maybe a free uniform (yes crew have to pay for their uniforms), etc.

 

*Trying to toss around what kind of degree you have doesn't really mean anything. Cruiselines are notorious for under paying their workers. This is why you don't see many Americans, Canadians, Western Europeans, etc. working for the cruise lines in the food service / hospitality areas. Most come from countries where the crew making American $ goes a long way. There are no unions to help these crew out.

[Wannacruise81]

We remove the optional charges and give the cabin steward $50-100 a week, and the waiters $10-15 per lunch or dinner at a sit down restaurant. If we go to the buffet, we will usually leave 5 bucks or so.

 

Removing the charge is allowed for in the contract (US) for any or no reason whatsoever.

 

Never had a complaint from any of the crew, in fact, we seem to get better service!!

 

Yes if the cabin steward gets over the amount the cruise line suggests per day, they are able to keep whatever is over that amount. If it is a 7 day cruise and lets say $5 a day per guest --that's $70 for a double occupancy room. They turn in $70 to the manager and they can keep the $30 extra. For the buffet, they can pocket what they make. As for the dining room, this is why they ask for your card when you check in. They want to see if you use the dining room service and to watch if a tip is given after the meal. Any tip is turned in

[ColinIllinois]

It's hard to know what is the absolute truth about tipping and the NCL crew members. Many folks on here swear that they know crew members personally. Some of those people say the crew gets to keep the extra tip. Some people who also know crew members personally say just the opposite. There has even been people claiming to be former crew members who give conflicting information.

 

That's why for me I give it zero energy allocation in my thought process. Pay the DSC, pay gratuities on the promos and on a rare occasion tip extra for some over the top service, which I usually receive regardless. NCL has great crews.

 

What others do is none of my business. Although I do occasionally get amused by some of the people who love patting themselves on the back here and exaggerate about how much they tip. (bad attempt at pot stirring).

[sjbdtz]

*Yes there was a lot of "greasing the palms" as you call it going on with the front line workers. Waiters would pay the chefs to ensure they got the freshest and hottest foods out to their guests. Because we all know if food quality and service were great=happy customer which means more $$ from the tips and also higher ratings on the guest surveys. I forgot to mention that the surveys played a huge role affecting the waiters or room stewards salaries. Excellent ratings got you bigger tables or more rooms which means more tips. If your ratings were less than excellent, you were provided with small tables and less rooms. Food service is a tough job and it could be a cut throat position.

 

*Corporate is pocketing the money these hard working crew members used to make. Most of the crew members who worked under the old tipping system are long gone. Corporate saw an opportunity for making more money by making automatic gratuities even if some percentage of cruisers took away or lowered this charge. As I said before , waiters and room stewards used to make $3500-$5000+ a month tax free from tips with a $200 salary per month. Now the crew member is making $1500 per month but don't get the tip envelopes, so where is the rest of the money going to since the daily service charge has actually increased?

 

*As far as the bar servers and bartenders, they are still under the old system where they are receiving a low salary but receive the 15-20% gratuity included in the bill. This is why you see them going around the theaters and lounges hustling to get drink orders. The spa is actually a outside company contracted by the cruise line. So their tips are based on what the contracted company charges.

 

*The "bonuses" are not cash given to the actual crew member like the cruise line wants you to believe. It goes into a crew welfare which provides discounts on some tours, a crew party, maybe a free uniform (yes crew have to pay for their uniforms), etc.

 

*Trying to toss around what kind of degree you have doesn't really mean anything. Cruiselines are notorious for under paying their workers. This is why you don't see many Americans, Canadians, Western Europeans, etc. working for the cruise lines in the food service / hospitality areas. Most come from countries where the crew making American $ goes a long way. There are no unions to help these crew out.

 

 

Well, I've met Canadians on most of my cruises, so I'm not sure what you mean. I wasn't intending to 'toss around' my degree, just to provide some perspective. I've studied this stuff (on paper, at least), so I'm not completely talking out of my left ear.

 

Yes, cruise lines are arbitraging salary differences between various cultures, exploiting those who come from low-wage environments who are willing to work onerous hours in order to exact a higher standard of living for themselves and their families. Anybody who cruises needs to know & be 'okay' with that. From my perspective, they are offering opportunity to many people from an environment where opportunity is hard to come by. Same coin, different side.

 

As for the $3500 / $1500 question, it's impossible to know how much of the $3500 they were tipping-out to get the best food, cleanest towels/sheets, most timely silverware. If they were NETTING $1500 back in the day, and they're NETTING $1500 now...the missing money has been located. It had been being (sorry for the complex tense) paid to the back-of-house people - the people we now advocate are protected under the DSC, and the very people that the OP might be wondering why they should be concerned about.

 

That was the entire point of my post.... what used to be, involved machinations the end-user wasn't privy to. The new way removes those machinations, and ensures everybody is covered. They NEED to be, or the ship can't operate.

 

If the laundry crew quits? The busboys? The dishwasher?

 

CHAOS!

 

 

The DSC removes that concern, and is apparently effective, as the ships appear to function reasonably well.

 

 

So I'm still not convinced by your fear-mongering, that corporate is pocketing the money. They may not be distributing is "as before", but they're distributing it in a way that has an equivalency which satisfies all of the proponents. They are fully staffed front & back.

 

 

Stephen

 

 

.

[Sam Ting]

Well, I've met Canadians on most of my cruises, so I'm not sure what you mean. I wasn't intending to 'toss around' my degree, just to provide some perspective. I've studied this stuff (on paper, at least), so I'm not completely talking out of my left ear.

 

Yes, cruise lines are arbitraging salary differences between various cultures, exploiting those who come from low-wage environments who are willing to work onerous hours in order to exact a higher standard of living for themselves and their families. Anybody who cruises needs to know & be 'okay' with that. From my perspective, they are offering opportunity to many people from an environment where opportunity is hard to come by. Same coin, different side.

 

As for the $3500 / $1500 question, it's impossible to know how much of the $3500 they were tipping-out to get the best food, cleanest towels/sheets, most timely silverware. If they were NETTING $1500 back in the day, and they're NETTING $1500 now...the missing money has been located. It had been being (sorry for the complex tense) paid to the back-of-house people - the people we now advocate are protected under the DSC, and the very people that the OP might be wondering why they should be concerned about.

 

That was the entire point of my post.... what used to be, involved machinations the end-user wasn't privy to. The new way removes those machinations, and ensures everybody is covered. They NEED to be, or the ship can't operate.

 

If the laundry crew quits? The busboys? The dishwasher?

 

CHAOS!

 

 

The DSC removes that concern, and is apparently effective, as the ships appear to function reasonably well.

 

 

So I'm still not convinced by your fear-mongering, that corporate is pocketing the money. They may not be distributing is "as before", but they're distributing it in a way that has an equivalency which satisfies all of the proponents. They are fully staffed front & back.

 

 

Stephen

 

 

.

Yeah right, you don’t have a clue......but thanks for playing.....oh, and btw, thanks for subsidizing my cruise fare wth your donation to the DSC!