My parents were denied boarding on Holland America 30 day cruise, need help

[cruisemom42]

BTW: Being denied boarding is not the same as not qualifying for boarding. That is where the semantic twist was for me. It was a terrible situation regardless, because the net result was the same.

 

 

Not buying it. There is nothing pejorative about saying boarding was denied.

 

If I were to say, for example, that my application for a multiple entry Indian visa was denied, I am making no claim either way. Perhaps I filled it out incorrectly. Or perhaps (as is often the case with Indian visas) there is some inscrutable reason why I only received a single-entry visa rather than the multiple entry one I requested, despite correctly completing the process. Either way, I am not accusing anyone of anything, merely stating the fact that it was denied.

 

Even the OED uses the following sentence to illustrate one of its definitions of deny: ‘The inquiry was denied access to intelligence sources.’ There is no implied suggestion that access should or should not have been granted. It simply was denied. :)

[kazu]

Not buying it. There is nothing pejorative about saying boarding was denied.

 

If I were to say, for example, that my application for a multiple entry Indian visa was denied, I am making no claim either way. Perhaps I filled it out incorrectly. Or perhaps (as is often the case with Indian visas) there is some inscrutable reason why I only received a single-entry visa rather than the multiple entry one I requested, despite correctly completing the process. Either way, I am not accusing anyone of anything, merely stating the fact that it was denied.

 

Even the OED uses the following sentence to illustrate one of its definitions of deny: ‘The inquiry was denied access to intelligence sources.’ There is no implied suggestion that access should or should not have been granted. It simply was denied. :)

 

Exactly (y)

[OlsSalt]

......... This is very frustrating for my elderly parents who spent a lot of money on this cruise an now looks like they will not get any back. I contacted several lawyers in Seattle (where Holland is based) but most only take injury cases. Any help would be appreciate it.

 

From another website discussing exactly this problem, along with other issues that can create a "refuse to cruise" situation (their title, not mine)

 

....."Summing Up Cruise Lines can legally set policies to deny you boarding and invoke them at any time. Furthermore, it is your responsibility to know the cruise line policy and if you do not or cannot comply, do not expect a refund or other compensation.

Now, cruise lines do not want to deny you passage. They want their ships to sail as full as possible since much of their revenue is made onboard. But they will deny you passage if they believe your situation will be detrimental to the progress of the cruise by slowing them down with local officials or raising a health issue they cannot control.

Cruise line policies change, so be sure to check frequently before your sail date. If a rule does change and you discover it before your cruise date, you may be able to fix the problem or make alternative arrangements with the cruise line. Buying travel insurance is also a good idea, but read the policy carefully. Many of them do not cover you if you are not in compliance with the "rules."

In truth, the cruise lines will often compensate a passenger who misses a cruise by giving them a voucher for a make-up cruise. Getting your money back is much harder to achieve. Cruise contracts are very specific and unfortunately hard to beat in court. Most of them specify that you must file, even small claims, in the state where the cruise line is headquartered....."

[Sue from Canada]

Since they were approved the next day, did you try to help them get to the next port and board there? I would have atleast tried that.

 

My thoughts exactly.

[Tampa Girl]

I'm not sure why OP waited two weeks after her parents were denied boarding to bring this subject up, other than to warn us that this could happen. It was a shame that it was not posted immediately and before her parents chose to leave the country.

 

Kazu - they were denied boarding in Buenos Aires, not Brazil. And since it was HAL that denied the boarding, I would be surprised if someone had not mentioned the alternative of meeting the ship later. But, then, that info may have come from the local employees at the check-in desk.

[Tampa Girl]

I fail to see anything accusatory in the title: My parents were denied boarding on Holland America 30 day cruise, need help.

 

Basically OP states what happened. The parents WERE denied boarding.

 

I'm sorry you were "put off" by the title, but the OP's parents lost 20k and what was probably a dream trip. Let's spare a moment to think that, should we ever be in a situation like theirs, we might not be at our calmest and most collected when posting for advice.

 

 

Read a little further in OP's post. He/she posted for the sole purpose of getting legal help to sue HAL. How do you figure that is not accusatory?

[cruisemom42]

Read a little further in OP's post. He/she posted for the sole purpose of getting legal help to sue HAL. How do you figure that is not accusatory?

 

The poster I quoted is referring only to the title:

 

Interesting. Hearing the story, i was then put off by the accusatory title that started it. I rewrote a few new titles in my own mind. Parents unable to board HAL ship due to their own visa negligence - a warning to all.

[OlsSalt]

The poster I quoted is referring only to the title:

 

The poster you "quoted" was referring to the whole story, including the title.. Re-read it.. And also, there is a difference between being denied boarding and not qualifying for boarding. Subtle perhaps, but does link to the issue of responsibility for the outcome.

[bigwally]

He/she posted for the sole purpose of getting legal help to sue HAL.

 

Well, we all know THAT'S not going to happen. Or if it does happen, isn't going to be successful.

[OlsSalt]

Well, we all know THAT'S not going to happen. Or if it does happen, isn't going to be successful.

 

We still don't know if there was any possible travel agent liability in this situation.

[Tampa Girl]

Well, we all know THAT'S not going to happen. Or if it does happen, isn't going to be successful.

 

Agree. Could be some liability on the part of the TA, but the plaintiffs would still have a comparative/contributory negligence issue to overcome.

[cruisemom42]

The poster you "quoted" was referring to the whole story, including the title.. Re-read it.. And also, there is a difference between being denied boarding and not qualifying for boarding. Subtle perhaps, but does link to the issue of responsibility for the outcome.

 

Whatever. To a person of only "average" understanding such as myself, when someone says they are put off by the "accusatory title", they are not referring to anything other than the title, otherwise they would have clearly said so.

 

You are comparing two unlike things. Being denied is the result. Not qualifying is the reason. You are attempting to replace one with the other in your "new" title. Essentially changing completely what the poster said.

 

And here I thought that on Cruise Critic posters were allowed to express things in their own fashion without "rewrites" from others! Apparently not so.... Perhaps we should send all posts to the arbiters first and let them rewrite each in a way that agrees with their own sensibilities.

 

The HAL board has become a very frustrating place of late, with lots unnecessary claims of "accusatory tone", "wild exaggeration" etc.

 

I think, for the sake of my own blood pressure and sense of fairness, I will take a little break from posting on this board! :eek:

[knittinggirl]

I don't understand why they couldn't board and remain on the ship.

 

I once had the alarm go off when I tried to disembark for a day tour, and had to go to medical to have my quarantine lifted.

 

I looked up Brazil visa once, and it looked like a much more complicated process than the Australian visa which was basically, fill out an online form and submit it w/ our money.

 

I do know that wouldn't let me on the ship, or they would have kicked me off the ship (don't remember which) at the port before Sydney.

[OlsSalt]

I don't understand why they couldn't board and remain on the ship.

 

I once had the alarm go off when I tried to disembark for a day tour, and had to go to medical to have my quarantine lifted.

 

I looked up Brazil visa once, and it looked like a much more complicated process than the Australian visa which was basically, fill out an online form and submit it w/ our money.

 

I do know that wouldn't let me on the ship, or they would have kicked me off the ship (don't remember which) at the port before Sydney.

 

Each country has its own policies. All HAL can do it operate within those requirements. The quoted In Summary article mentioned failure to abide by these requirements for certain passengers can then cause problems for everyone else on the ship.

 

And the same article also stated no ship wants to sail less than full capacity, so "denying" or "refusing" or "turning away non-qualified to board" passengers" is not something they do lightly or capriciously. Though in this case, they did get to keep the money per contract terms and have two fewer mouths to feed, but also lose any on-board spending revenues which has now become an increasing source of overall revenue according to the CCL Annual Report.

[Jade13]

I don't know where your parents live, but here in the USA there is a multi-step process involved, the online paperwork is just the beginning. Different consulates have different rules. For applicants in my part of the USA, passports, USPS money order, and hard copy paperwork must be turned in to the Brazilian Consulate in Chicago. Processing time is 10 days, or 15 days for mailed applications, and expedited service is not offered.

 

 

 

And other cities you can walk right in and pick them up later in the day.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums

[Toofarfromthesea]

I fail to see anything accusatory in the title: My parents were denied boarding on Holland America 30 day cruise, need help.

 

Basically OP states what happened. The parents WERE denied boarding.

 

I'm sorry you were "put off" by the title, but the OP's parents lost 20k and what was probably a dream trip. Let's spare a moment to think that, should we ever be in a situation like theirs, we might not be at our calmest and most collected when posting for advice.

 

 

Did you miss the part where they were trying to get an attorney to, presumably, threaten suit?

[OlsSalt]

From an online article - other common reasons a cruise line may not honor a paid reservation at the last minute: you can find more information looking up "refused to cruise":

 

1. Pasport and Visa Problems

2. Passport requirements

3. Cruise line policies- age restrictions

4. Minor Children traveling with a legal guardian

5. Health reasons - pregnancy

6. Other Health Reasons

7. Physical Disability

[ToBe]

Long story short my parents in 70s who have been cruising for very long time now, booked a 30 day cruise. They were suppose to sail from Buenos Aires on Feb 18. They got their boarding pass and everything but when they arrived to board they were denied. They were told they did not have proper Brazilian temporary visas. They got email 4 days before they left for cruise that they needed Visas and they filed paperwork online right away and apparently Brazilian embassy did not clear them in time for cruise. They could not contact embassy on day they were suppose to leave because it was holiday and Holland America did not allow them to board (even thought they were not going to get off ship in Brazil or even hit Brazilian waters for 3 days after they started cruise). The frustrating part is they got confirmation from embassy next day but ship already left. They flew home and that was end of it. They are out close to 20k and even though they had 2 insurances neither one of them is covering it. Issue I have is that they had no idea they needed visas till 4 days before cruise and Holland even gave them boarding passes! If they were not clear to board why would they get boarding pass? This is very frustrating for my elderly parents who spent a lot of money on this cruise an now looks like they will not get any back. I contacted several lawyers in Seattle (where Holland is based) but most only take injury cases. Any help would be appreciate it.

 

We are the same age as your parents and certainly do not consider our age an impediment to reading directions. We just finished the Zaandam cruise with the 12 days that went to Brazil and back to BA. Brazilian visas are not hard to get but you must fill out the forms correctly and they take around 10 days to get. The HAL site makes the need for the visa very clear as they do with India and China. The ship kept the passports for the entire time we were Brazilian waters and they were inspected by the Brazilian authorities. The passports had stamps. Brazil matches the same rules that their citizens have to follow when they come to the USA. We heard that there were people who were denied passage because they did not have the Brazilian visas. This cost the staff money since they did not receive the tips that make up a good part of their salaries. Their TA should have reminded them that they needed to allow time to obtain a visa. This information is also given when you do the on line check in.

I don't know why they didn't resume the cruise in 10 days when we stopped at Montevideo since they had another 20 days to cruise.

[sail7seas]

If you are raveling with someone, if you think driver could be taking you'fo a ride' say to thyou companion..... Wow, this seems so much logfner ride than the last few times wse were here. Don't letg driver know it is your fist time to Port Everglades......... I have done similar when leaving he ship and goiung for post cruis hoel stay. I woul say to DH, aALL he times we have gone to that hgtel, we always were there so much faster. No like we don't know where the hotel is locatedMust have ben mor red lights than I ralized. We usually arrived very soon f

 

ater such a comment. :) The txai sight-seing game is played out in cities all over the world.

[sammiedawg]

Whatever. To a person of only "average" understanding such as myself, when someone says they are put off by the "accusatory title", they are not referring to anything other than the title, otherwise they would have clearly said so.

 

You are comparing two unlike things. Being denied is the result. Not qualifying is the reason. You are attempting to replace one with the other in your "new" title. Essentially changing completely what the poster said.

 

And here I thought that on Cruise Critic posters were allowed to express things in their own fashion without "rewrites" from others! Apparently not so.... Perhaps we should send all posts to the arbiters first and let them rewrite each in a way that agrees with their own sensibilities.

 

The HAL board has become a very frustrating place of late, with lots unnecessary claims of "accusatory tone", "wild exaggeration" etc.

 

I think, for the sake of my own blood pressure and sense of fairness, I will take a little break from posting on this board! :eek:

 

This board is the train wreck I cannot look away from.

[RDC1]

If you are raveling with someone, if you think driver could be taking you'fo a ride' say to thyou companion..... Wow, this seems so much logfner ride than the last few times wse were here. Don't letg driver know it is your fist time to Port Everglades......... I have done similar when leaving he ship and goiung for post cruis hoel stay. I woul say to DH, aALL he times we have gone to that hgtel, we always were there so much faster. No like we don't know where the hotel is locatedMust have ben mor red lights than I ralized. We usually arrived very soon f

 

ater such a comment. :) The txai sight-seing game is played out in cities all over the world.

 

Easy way is to simply bring up a map on your smart phone and when telling the driver where you are going to point at the map. Make it very clear you know where you are and if you deviate from the route.

[Cruzaholic41]

So being denied boarding has now somehow morphed into long taxi rides. Interesting.

 

No wonder the OP hasn’t returned. They think the people around here are insane.

[kazu]

Whatever. To a person of only "average" understanding such as myself, when someone says they are put off by the "accusatory title", they are not referring to anything other than the title, otherwise they would have clearly said so.

 

You are comparing two unlike things. Being denied is the result. Not qualifying is the reason. You are attempting to replace one with the other in your "new" title. Essentially changing completely what the poster said.

 

And here I thought that on Cruise Critic posters were allowed to express things in their own fashion without "rewrites" from others! Apparently not so.... Perhaps we should send all posts to the arbiters first and let them rewrite each in a way that agrees with their own sensibilities.

 

The HAL board has become a very frustrating place of late, with lots unnecessary claims of "accusatory tone", "wild exaggeration" etc.

 

I think, for the sake of my own blood pressure and sense of fairness, I will take a little break from posting on this board! :eek:

 

Oh, I hope you don't. You are one level headed poster who always posts responsibly.

 

I always enjoy your posts and would hate to see you go- even for a short time :( but I totally understand where you are coming from, sadly.

[ithaca gal]

If you are raveling with someone, if you think driver could be taking you'fo a ride' say to thyou companion..... Wow, this seems so much logfner ride than the last few times wse were here. Don't letg driver know it is your fist time to Port Everglades......... I have done similar when leaving he ship and goiung for post cruis hoel stay. I woul say to DH, aALL he times we have gone to that hgtel, we always were there so much faster. No like we don't know where the hotel is locatedMust have ben mor red lights than I ralized. We usually arrived very soon f

 

ater such a comment. :) The txai sight-seing game is played out in cities all over the world.

 

Trying to figure out how this would help the OP solve the problem of his/her parents being denied boarding for their 30 day cruise.

[Copper10-8]

So being denied boarding has now somehow morphed into long taxi rides. Interesting.

 

No wonder the OP hasn’t returned. They think the people around here are insane.

 

Yeah, but in a good chair and with some popcorn close by, it can be quite entertaining :cool: