Diminishing Quality on Carnival?

[Jellyfish21]

So I guess the question is: do you want the price to stay low or do you want to pay for more amenities? You indicated you are paying the same price that you did 19 years ago with inflation factored in. I know I'm not paying the same price for the gas in my car. Or for that fact, I'm not paying the same for a new car. Or a home or anything else. Something has to give.

 

You are comparing apples and oranges- how can you compare apples and oranges???

Gasoline is a commodity - the gasoline of 19 years ago is no different than the gasoline you get now. On the other hand, the cruise is not just a service to transport you to an island, it includes other services, like hotel,dining and entertainment. Those things HAVE been cutback.

Would I be willing to pay extra to get those things back? Yes I would . But not an extra $10,000. Over the last 20 years, we have also seen some things decrease in cost, like produce and salaries for some employees ( this is all adjusted for inflation) . We have also seen fixed costs reduced by going to bigger ships which have economies of scale.

One problem is that there are not enough cruise lines for competition , it is an oligopoly, with basically three cruise companies ( carnival Corp and their brands) rcl and ncl owning the market.

[Joebucks]

They have done lots of cutbacks . I listed them earlier. They have even done cutbacks to the perks what platinum gets. Oh that’s right, you only have six cruises, you wouldn’t know.

. CCL does NOT do cutbacks to “keep prices down”. This is oft repeated claim said by those who have no idea of what micro economics is and think CCL is run like a lemonade stand.

CCL ( like every other cruise line) tries to get top dollar for every cabin . That’s why you’ll see rooms costing double during high demand times. Every cutback is done for one reason - to increase profit.

The thing with straws is to make a cutback politically correct . Note how there is no mention of CCL switching to more expensive paper straws?

 

Profit is a big piece of it. However, it's not the be-all, end-all guiding principle of expense decisions. To not constantly evaluate ROIC would make you a horrible business owner. Especially on a business as large and intricate as cruising. How many businesses today operate the exact same as they did 20 years ago? Heck, how about even 5 years ago? Those who live in "the way things used to be," would never, ever succeed in business.

 

If they really wanted to boost profit, they could eliminate food being included as one example. However, that is something that has proven to have value. There are many other competitors out there to steal Carnival's lunch if "cutbacks" were really watering down the product. Yet, Carnival still attracts the most customers. Yet, their market value is bigger than all of their biggest competitors, combined. So what some deem as "cutbacks" the market has largely determined to not be of top-importance. There are premium cruise lines to cater to all of your needs like not having to ask for robes, french butter, mints, etc. Supply and Demand has told us most people don't make their travel decisions on all of the nonsense.

 

Personally, my favorite thing to do on a Carnival Cruise besides the normal food, drink, and enjoying the atmosphere, is the Punchliner. Even a few years ago, that was not there. If they wanted to "cutback everything for profit" it would not be there. However, it has proven to be a big attraction and even sells them more drinks. Comedy clubs weren't really a thing back in the day, but they have surged in popularity. Therefore, it has proven useful for its ROIC.

 

Are there things I would want to return? Absolutely. Are there poor decisions they have made? Absolutely. To make everyone happy is something that will never happen. Obviously, they supply a product that has demand. Sometimes they face backlash, and must decide what is right. Eliminating things that don't make sense in the grand scheme DOES keep prices lower. You invest your money where you get a return. Remove it where it doesn't. Simple economics. Right?

[declansdad]

My lord they may as well shut Carnival down it is such a crappy product. Some of you whine about anything, no matter how small.

 

 

But what do I know, I've only cruised 6 times.

Edited April 15, 2018 by declansdad

[E@syPe@zy]

You are comparing apples and oranges- how can you compare apples and oranges???

Gasoline is a commodity - the gasoline of 19 years ago is no different than the gasoline you get now. On the other hand, the cruise is not just a service to transport you to an island, it includes other services, like hotel,dining and entertainment. Those things HAVE been cutback.

Would I be willing to pay extra to get those things back? Yes I would . But not an extra $10,000. Over the last 20 years, we have also seen some things decrease in cost, like produce and salaries for some employees ( this is all adjusted for inflation) . We have also seen fixed costs reduced by going to bigger ships which have economies of scale.

One problem is that there are not enough cruise lines for competition , it is an oligopoly, with basically three cruise companies ( carnival Corp and their brands) rcl and ncl owning the market.

You know that I was not comparing a cruise to gasoline. I was just commenting on your inflation statement. You said that you pay roughly the same for a cruise that you did 19 years ago. And with inflation how can you expect to receive the same product???

It's obvious that cruise pricing is determined by supply and demand. A newer ship in prime sailing time, be it summer or holidays is going to command a higher price than certain weeks in the fall and early winter, particularly on older ships going to less desirable locations.

I hunt religiously for the good deals on all of the cruise lines. I am lucky enough to travel during off peak times and therefore have snagged some very nice prices on cruises.

What is remarkable is that someone that books an interior stateroom can have basically the same experience as someone that pays for a balcony stateroom. I wish I wasn't spoiled, but I do love balcony rooms. I could save a lot of cash by booking that inside.

For what it's worth I wasn't disagreeing with your post. I was just pointing out that we rarely get our cake and eat it too.:)

[declansdad]

Profit is a big piece of it. However, it's not the be-all, end-all guiding principle of expense decisions. To not constantly evaluate ROIC would make you a horrible business owner. Especially on a business as large and intricate as cruising. How many businesses today operate the exact same as they did 20 years ago? Heck, how about even 5 years ago? Those who live in "the way things used to be," would never, ever succeed in business.

 

If they really wanted to boost profit, they could eliminate food being included as one example. However, that is something that has proven to have value. There are many other competitors out there to steal Carnival's lunch if "cutbacks" were really watering down the product. Yet, Carnival still attracts the most customers. Yet, their market value is bigger than all of their biggest competitors, combined. So what some deem as "cutbacks" the market has largely determined to not be of top-importance. There are premium cruise lines to cater to all of your needs like not having to ask for robes, french butter, mints, etc. Supply and Demand has told us most people don't make their travel decisions on all of the nonsense.

 

Personally, my favorite thing to do on a Carnival Cruise besides the normal food, drink, and enjoying the atmosphere, is the Punchliner. Even a few years ago, that was not there. If they wanted to "cutback everything for profit" it would not be there. However, it has proven to be a big attraction and even sells them more drinks. Comedy clubs weren't really a thing back in the day, but they have surged in popularity. Therefore, it has proven useful for its ROIC.

 

Are there things I would want to return? Absolutely. Are there poor decisions they have made? Absolutely. To make everyone happy is something that will never happen. Obviously, they supply a product that has demand. Sometimes they face backlash, and must decide what is right. Eliminating things that don't make sense in the grand scheme DOES keep prices lower. You invest your money where you get a return. Remove it where it doesn't. Simple economics. Right?

 

 

Great post!

[Jellyfish21]

Profit is a big piece of it. However, it's not the be-all, end-all guiding principle of expense decisions. To not constantly evaluate ROIC would make you a horrible business owner. Especially on a business as large and intricate as cruising. How many businesses today operate the exact same as they did 20 years ago? Heck, how about even 5 years ago? Those who live in "the way things used to be," would never, ever succeed in business.

 

If they really wanted to boost profit, they could eliminate food being included as one example. However, that is something that has proven to have value. There are many other competitors out there to steal Carnival's lunch if "cutbacks" were really watering down the product. Yet, Carnival still attracts the most customers. Yet, their market value is bigger than all of their biggest competitors, combined. So what some deem as "cutbacks" the market has largely determined to not be of top-importance. There are premium cruise lines to cater to all of your needs like not having to ask for robes, french butter, mints, etc. Supply and Demand has told us most people don't make their travel decisions on all of the nonsense.

 

Personally, my favorite thing to do on a Carnival Cruise besides the normal food, drink, and enjoying the atmosphere, is the Punchliner. Even a few years ago, that was not there. If they wanted to "cutback everything for profit" it would not be there. However, it has proven to be a big attraction and even sells them more drinks. . Eliminating things that don't make sense in the grand scheme DOES keep prices lower. You invest your money where you get a return. Remove it where it doesn't. Simple economics. Right?

 

Again,wrong and wrong.

CCL has had comedy for decades, long before “punchliner”!

They’d have a comedian perform , then tell the audience that he’d be doing an adult “Spicey” show later. And get this- sometimes it was in the main show room so you wouldn’t have to stand.

And, they don’t eliminate things to keep prices lower, that’s just plain dumb. C’mon, you know it is, just think about .

You walk into the reservations dept. They tell you that they have proprietary software that tracks sales. If they are trending above in sales volume, they raise the price . If they are trending below benchmark, they lower. They tell you that they want to sell these rooms for as much as possible , that if they could , they’d sell for $3k if the market could bear it.

The goal is for rooms to sell for as much as possible, but for the ship to sail with 100% occupancy. This is basic micro Econ 101 .

Then you, the new hire says “ why don’t we cut back on stuff that don’t make sense to me and cut prices ? The boss tells you that lower cabin sale prices lead to lower profits and tells you that you’re fired .

Still don’t believe this is how business works?

Next time any cruise line releases their quarterly report , note how they always mention whether cabin prices are heading up or down.

[nealstuber]

I was just pointing out that we rarely get our cake and eat it too.:)

 

 

I’ve never understood this saying. Every time I’ve had cake, I’ve been able to eat it. What’s the point of baking a cake if someone is not going to eat it?

 

 

 

 

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[declansdad]

I’ve never understood this saying. Every time I’ve had cake, I’ve been able to eat it. What’s the point of baking a cake if someone is not going to eat it?

 

 

 

 

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You can't eat it and still have it, you can only do one or the other.

[Sgàile]

Ah, you beat me to it, Declansdad.

[Joebucks]

Again,wrong and wrong.

CCL has had comedy for decades, long before “punchliner”!

They’d have a comedian perform , then tell the audience that he’d be doing an adult “Spicey” show later. And get this- sometimes it was in the main show room so you wouldn’t have to stand.

And, they don’t eliminate things to keep prices lower, that’s just plain dumb. C’mon, you know it is, just think about .

You walk into the reservations dept. They tell you that they have proprietary software that tracks sales. If they are trending above in sales volume, they raise the price . If they are trending below benchmark, they lower. They tell you that they want to sell these rooms for as much as possible , that if they could , they’d sell for $3k if the market could bear it.

The goal is for rooms to sell for as much as possible, but for the ship to sail with 100% occupancy. This is basic micro Econ 101 .

Then you, the new hire says “ why don’t we cut back on stuff that don’t make sense to me and cut prices ? The boss tells you that lower cabin sale prices lead to lower profits and tells you that you’re fired .

Still don’t believe this is how business works?

Next time any cruise line releases their quarterly report , note how they always mention whether cabin prices are heading up or down.

 

Well of course they raise and lower rates based off of demand. That's what every business in the world does.

 

Costs matter with any business or you will go under. Let's take one of the recent "Carnival cutbacks," cable channels. With the increase of cost of their cable contracts, where does the money come from? Does Carnival absorb that cost, do they cut that service, or does the customer pay extra for it? One of those has to happen. Then do it over and over and over again with everything else such as fuel, beef, medical supplies, taxes, regulations, electronics, dry dock improvements, etc etc. Not to mention all of the other pressures of the business world. You start to run out of profit, cut offerings, or raise prices. Which one of those sounds like the best choice for things determined by market research to be non-essential?

 

 

If it is so easy, you should start your own cruise line. With Carnival being such a bare bones, pure-profit, business, you should have no problem offering a far superior product at a better price.

[E@syPe@zy]

Again,wrong and wrong.

CCL has had comedy for decades, long before “punchliner”!

They’d have a comedian perform , then tell the audience that he’d be doing an adult “Spicey” show later. And get this- sometimes it was in the main show room so you wouldn’t have to stand.

And, they don’t eliminate things to keep prices lower, that’s just plain dumb. C’mon, you know it is, just think about .

You walk into the reservations dept. They tell you that they have proprietary software that tracks sales. If they are trending above in sales volume, they raise the price . If they are trending below benchmark, they lower. They tell you that they want to sell these rooms for as much as possible , that if they could , they’d sell for $3k if the market could bear it.

The goal is for rooms to sell for as much as possible, but for the ship to sail with 100% occupancy. This is basic micro Econ 101 .

Then you, the new hire says “ why don’t we cut back on stuff that don’t make sense to me and cut prices ? The boss tells you that lower cabin sale prices lead to lower profits and tells you that you’re fired .

Still don’t believe this is how business works?

Next time any cruise line releases their quarterly report , note how they always mention whether cabin prices are heading up or down.

You make some good points, but I'm curious how do you think Carnival has been able to keep the cruise cost to the consumer at basically 1999 prices (according to you in previous post)?? Again I'm not trying to argumentative. I'm just trying to understand how that is possible without cuts in cost to the company.:confused:

[Jellyfish21]

You make some good points, but I'm curious how do you think Carnival has been able to keep the cruise cost to the consumer at basically 1999 prices (according to you in previous post)?? Again I'm not trying to argumentative. I'm just trying to understand how that is possible without cuts in cost to the company.:confused:

 

Why are computers of today much cheaper and better than those made 20 years ago?

Again, cutbacks are not made to keep prices down, they are done to increase profit.

Wages have stayed pretty stable too. With th exception of beef prices, food hasn’t increased much.

Larger ships are cheaper to operate than smaller ones. Newer ships are also more fuel efficient too.

Getting back to prices, cut backs have nothing to do with pricing .

[Doug & Cindy Scrap Hunter]

What’s changed?

 

Professional entertainers replaced with Hasbro junk.

Live bands replaced with recordings

Elaborated productions replaced with playlist

No more rum swizzle Party

No more cocktail party

No more repeater party

No water color print

Less quality food in mdr- filet mignon replaced with ???

No more assigned server for all three meals

No more free galley tour

No more free stuff from kids club ( like helium balloons and t shirts)

No more free espresso in mdr

Butter imported from France replaced with butter flavored product

Free fresh orange juice

Bringing aboard beverages ( including alcohol) was allowed.

Andes mints left on pillow.

 

<Guy's Burgers. I got my criticisms too but some additional things have been added to offset these cutbacks.

[jimbo5544]

I sailed on the Elation back in ‘99 with my family of four for $2300 to MR out of SoCal.Adjusted for inflation, that’s $3500 in today’s money.

 

It costs about $3500 for same room, same itenery this summer!

 

What’s changed?

 

 

 

Professional entertainers replaced with Hasbro junk.

 

Live bands replaced with recordings

 

Elaborated productions replaced with playlist

 

No more rum swizzle Party

 

No more cocktail party

 

No more repeater party

 

No water color print

 

Less quality food in mdr- filet mignon replaced with ???

 

No more assigned server for all three meals

 

No more free galley tour

 

No more free stuff from kids club ( like helium balloons and t shirts)

 

No more free espresso in mdr

 

Butter imported from France replaced with butter flavored product

 

Free fresh orange juice

 

Bringing aboard beverages ( including alcohol) was allowed.

 

Andes mints left on pillow.

 

 

 

Now, I know there will be someone who will pick on one or more of this and poo poo it by saying they don’t care about the mints or color print, etc. Thats missing the point. Fact is that these were all once included, now they are gone.

 

I will say that the captains cocktail party was second to the lifeboat drill as the most widely attended event and you’d be hard pressed to argue that its discontinuation was anything other than a cutback intended to increase profit.

 

 

 

You are correct....well sort of. There are more a few on your list that are just not true. But let's not let the facts get in the way. If you really think things are so bad, there are other fish in the sea. Try something else. Happy cruising.

 

 

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[KmomChicago]

Well of course they raise and lower rates based off demand. If it is so easy, you should start your own cruise line. With Carnival being such a bare bones, pure-profit, business, you should have no problem offering a far superior product at a better price.

 

 

 

This is a great idea. The entire Fantasy class is showing for sale on boat dealer websites as is Triumph. 9 ships that have kept on ticking in spite of years of full sailings and hard use. Anybody can start and run a cruise line providing the precise mix of value and luxury demanded by every passenger. Would love to see a new player in this game!

 

 

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[jimbo5544]

This is a great idea. The entire Fantasy class is showing for sale on boat dealer websites as is Triumph. 9 ships that have kept on ticking in spite of years of full sailings and hard use. Anybody can start and run a cruise line providing the precise mix of value and luxury demanded by every passenger. Would love to see a new player in this game!

 

 

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One thing that the Caribbean does not need is new players. The market is more than saturated. While I have seen the Fantasy for sale, I have never seen the entire class of ships. Can you point to that?

 

 

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[Towel Critter]

You are correct....well sort of. There are more a few on your list that are just not true. But let's not let the facts get in the way. If you really think things are so bad, there are other fish in the sea. Try something else. Happy cruising.

 

 

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I don't even know what a rum swizzle party is (not much of a drinker, I guess), but which items are you saying are incorrect? Most look right to me, but a few I'm not sure about. Not bashing at all, just seeking clarity.

[ray98]

Again,wrong and wrong.

CCL has had comedy for decades, long before “punchliner”!

They’d have a comedian perform , then tell the audience that he’d be doing an adult “Spicey” show later. And get this- sometimes it was in the main show room so you wouldn’t have to stand.

And, they don’t eliminate things to keep prices lower, that’s just plain dumb. C’mon, you know it is, just think about .

You walk into the reservations dept. They tell you that they have proprietary software that tracks sales. If they are trending above in sales volume, they raise the price . If they are trending below benchmark, they lower. They tell you that they want to sell these rooms for as much as possible , that if they could , they’d sell for $3k if the market could bear it.

The goal is for rooms to sell for as much as possible, but for the ship to sail with 100% occupancy. This is basic micro Econ 101 .

Then you, the new hire says “ why don’t we cut back on stuff that don’t make sense to me and cut prices ? The boss tells you that lower cabin sale prices lead to lower profits and tells you that you’re fired .

Still don’t believe this is how business works?

Next time any cruise line releases their quarterly report , note how they always mention whether cabin prices are heading up or down.

 

 

You oversimplification of this shows you don't know as much about business as you are claiming.

 

As JoeBucks explained there is much more that goes into a model as big as Carnival beyond 'micro Econ 101'' Yes, getting the most out of your pricing is a goal but also keeping that pricing at a level to maintain your market share is another. So yes, businesses choose to alter expenses to maintain a price point and adapt their product all while still striving to maximize the return within their chosen market all the time.

[firefly333]

Its funny but I can be gone from here a year and come back and guarateed there is a thread usually RCL vs Carnival with each shouting their favorite is better, and a thread about quality.

 

My last Carnival was some gambling cruise. sooooo many priority cruisers, made it not such a good perk. like 400 plus. top gambling cruise of the year apparantly for the winners who spent the most to get there. yikes.

 

But I was happy with the new one time cleaning of my room, i dont mess it up that much by myself and often told my cleaning guy not to do it, so thats good to me.

 

Food was good and plentiful. Except for the waits, i hate lines, and oh yes, very cold. First time to roatan etc with cold weather, didnt know they got that cold. brrrr. Felt sorry for those who prepaid for diving and water stuff. Cant blame Carnival for wierd weather.

 

I would go again, and Im sure i will. have to wait, moved in March and painting inside of house now. hoping to get done and get away.

[Towel Critter]

Its funny but I can be gone from here a year and come back and guarateed there is a thread usually RCL vs Carnival with each shouting their favorite is better, and a thread about quality.

 

My last Carnival was some gambling cruise. sooooo many priority cruisers, made it not such a good perk. like 400 plus. top gambling cruise of the year apparantly for the winners who spent the most to get there. yikes.

 

But I was happy with the new one time cleaning of my room, i dont mess it up that much by myself and often told my cleaning guy not to do it, so thats good to me.

 

Food was good and plentiful. Except for the waits, i hate lines, and oh yes, very cold. First time to roatan etc with cold weather, didnt know they got that cold. brrrr. Felt sorry for those who prepaid for diving and water stuff. Cant blame Carnival for wierd weather.

 

I would go again, and Im sure i will. have to wait, moved in March and painting inside of house now. hoping to get done and get away.

I felt like I was reading one of my occasionally rambling posts. lol. You started out talking about the status quo on CC, moved to weather in Honduras, ended up with redecorating at home. :DNot being critical, just recognizing a kindred spirit. Now where was I? Oh yeah, gotta cut the grass today, once it warms up. :D

[Jellyfish21]

You are correct....well sort of. There are more a few on your list that are just not true. But let's not let the facts get in the way. If you really think things are so bad, there are other fish in the sea. Try something else. Happy cruising.

 

 

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Really? I posted some cutbacks that are not true? Care to point them out?

[jimbo5544]

If you wish, we can. My question stands (emotion free I might add). If you really feel it is that bad than try something else.

 

 

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[cruziJenn]

The last Carnival cruise that we were on (Conquest) there was a great Rock band in the Atrium for I think at least 5 nights of our 7 day cruise.

[Jellyfish21]

If you wish, we can. My question stands (emotion free I might add). If you really feel it is that bad than try something else.

 

 

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Do you really think you are being clever by repeating the ergo decedo fallacy?

Pretty juvenile.

[skiingj]

You are correct....well sort of. There are more a few on your list that are just not true. But let's not let the facts get in the way. If you really think things are so bad, there are other fish in the sea. Try something else. Happy cruising.Sent from my iPad using Forums

 

I'm not familiar with a few items on this list but please point out what is not true? I could add a couple dozen cutbacks to this list.