Iona

[Vampiress88]

1 hour ago, mcloaked said:

 

To answer your question about whether 'some' people go Specifically to dance..... the answer is an unequivocal YES.  We are one such couple - we essentially go on a dancing holiday that happens to be on a cruise ship - yes there is the additional lovely atmosphere on board,  and the fact that it's fabulous not having to drive or travel between your room, dining room and ballroom, but like many other couples who are ballroom dancers, dancing is a core part of our lives. We don't go on a cruise to have an occasional half hour dancing.  We dance every week at home, usually several times per week, and we dance every evening when on a holiday, whether on a cruise or a land based dance holiday, of which there are increasing numbers to choose from.  For us dancing gives us a pleasure that cannot be obtained by any other means and it is an ongoing desire to improve our technique, and learn new choreography.  Dancing in total harmony with your partner, and losing your soul in beautiful music is such a pleasure that we want to do it all the time.  It takes a lot of effort to become skilled at doing it, but the reward cannot be measured that you get in return for that hard work in the learning process. In addition dancing regularly keeps you fit, keeps you mind sharp, and also lets you become one of the large community of dancers who welcome you into a world of friendship that is really a pleasure to be part of.  

 

For us a holiday without dancing every evening we could not even imagine.  Yes we love being able to enjoy the shore excursions, whether on organised trips or doing our own thing walking miles at nice port towns, and we enjoy the generally nice meals, and how the galley staff get thousands of meals out to the tables in a way generally better than most restaurants is a wonder to contemplate, and the opportunity to go theatre shows included in most cruises, as well as having a late night drink overloooking the dark sky, sea and occasionally other ships after an evening's dancing, is a real pleasure. But at the end of the day for us, if no dancing then no cruise and we will go on a land based dance holiday instead.  

 

Although those passengers who dance every night are not the majority of passengers they make up a significant steady core of people. In addition many more passengers come to watch the ballroom dancing, and often have a drink and make that part of the cruise entertainment.  There are of course discos on many cruises - but that usually doesn't get too many people who come to be spectators - discos generally are full of people discoing but not many come to watch that.

 

It is also the case that there is a steady number of people who will have their first go at a dance lesson on board - and then go on to learn more when they get back home at a local dance school - and end up becoming one of the future dancers.  So how much people enjoy those lessons on board depend on how well the dance instructors are able to cater for both the beginners as well as those who have done dancing before at various levels.  Some professional dance teachers can teach really clearly and split their time in a way that everyone present feels they are learning something, and enjoy the lessons so that even beginners can then get on the floor and start to enjoy ballroom and Latin dancing.

in your case then I can completely see why you wouldn’t want to go on the Iona. 
But as far as I am aware the rest of the fleet (is it 5 other ships?) do still do dancing. 
 

but surely it’s a bit like me complaining that they have adult only boats. I can’t go on those boats as I have the kids. You can’t go on the Iona cos it doesn’t meet your needs. 
 

You do make dancing sound so beautiful. I wish I could dance, I have two left feet and no rhythm but I do like to watch. But it’s cos it’s there it’s not something I would specifically want from my holiday. 
 

i suppose we all have reasons for certain holidays and they have to meet our needs. I do wonder what percentage the no dancing will effect. 

[stephen@stoneyard.co.uk]

Oriana and Aurora (I am not familiar with the other ships) have four main complimentary entertainment venues.  A theatre, cabaret lounge, cinema and dance venue. Unless I am mistaken Iona has only three of these. They decided to drop the dance venue. There may be dance options in The Dome, The Club House or The 710 Club.  These venues will probably not be a substitute for a ballroom. Unfortunately once the ship is built adding a ballroom would be difficult unlike Club dining which can be done easily. 
 

With no ballroom, no Club dining and a reduction in formal nights, P&O really are not trying to attract traditional passengers. They are going after families and perhaps young couples. These passengers might think the likes of Royal Caribbean are a better option though. These passengers are not adverse to flying to a departure port too.

 

Filling Iona in school term time week after week in the Fjords might be difficult. We have already seen how they intend to do it.  If you reduce the price enough then enough passengers will ignore what the ship lacks and book it for cruises.  Also new passengers will not miss what they never had. A cruise becomes something to book because it is cheaper than a three star hotel in Spain. This pricing approach has an effect on service, food, atmosphere and profitability though. Traditional passengers may end up booking Cunard which of course is also a Carnival UK brand and often costs more. 
 

P&O are the UK version Canival now, an Iona type ship is going to Carnival soon (but late).  P&O use to be the UK version of Princess, and they shared ship designs. Of course Cunard are the UK version of HAL, and Cunard has variants on HAL ships  in the fleet and is getting another. 

I am cruising Iona and I am sure I will enjoy it. I am cruising with friends. I also expect that I will come back thinking she is not my favourite ship. 

My best years of cruising are in the past I feel and once the last few traditional ships go I may stop. 

 

Best wishes, Stephen. 

Edited January 11, 2020 by stephen@stoneyard.co.uk

[mcloaked]

1 hour ago, terrierjohn said:

Not sure why they wouldn't, on every Celebrity cruise we have been on the CD has said that they take notice of what is posted on CC and use it to improve their entertainment package. Surely P&O management cannot ignore such a wealth of useful criticism.

The managers who make the decisions at head office may or may not ask other staff to look at the response of people on social media, and this forum is essentially one of the many social media.  There are also groups on Facebook and other forums where passengers, and potential passengers, discuss similar matters. Which forums and which social media could be followed depends on whether the managers at Carnival, Cunard, P&O and other lines wish their staff to spend a long time reading the huge number of posts, some small fraction of which could be relevant to deciding policy for how the cruises and ships will be managed. Direct contact with the marketing departments, and/or the relevant manager concerned is much more likely to be given serious analysis.

[mcloaked]

1 hour ago, Vampiress88 said:

in your case then I can completely see why you wouldn’t want to go on the Iona. 
But as far as I am aware the rest of the fleet (is it 5 other ships?) do still do dancing. 
 

but surely it’s a bit like me complaining that they have adult only boats. I can’t go on those boats as I have the kids. You can’t go on the Iona cos it doesn’t meet your needs. 
 

You do make dancing sound so beautiful. I wish I could dance, I have two left feet and no rhythm but I do like to watch. But it’s cos it’s there it’s not something I would specifically want from my holiday. 
 

i suppose we all have reasons for certain holidays and they have to meet our needs. I do wonder what percentage the no dancing will effect. 

 

Yes good question - but I bet the ents manager will be asking the same question and also asking whether they could make more profit if they didn't cater for the ballroom dancers!  Yes the other P&O ships do have dancing but there is an increasing tendency to make the ballroom 'more inclusive' for other passengers, so they take it out for 'pub quizzes' or more sequence dancing, and despite the fact that for a pub quiz the pub nearby then has much reduced custom and could easily be used to host the quiz as well as have ballroom dancing concurrently with that activity!

[Vampiress88]

2 hours ago, mcloaked said:

 

Yes good question - but I bet the ents manager will be asking the same question and also asking whether they could make more profit if they didn't cater for the ballroom dancers!  Yes the other P&O ships do have dancing but there is an increasing tendency to make the ballroom 'more inclusive' for other passengers, so they take it out for 'pub quizzes' or more sequence dancing, and despite the fact that for a pub quiz the pub nearby then has much reduced custom and could easily be used to host the quiz as well as have ballroom dancing concurrently with that activity!

yes I agree that the pub quiz is better in a pub setting, also depends on the layout of said pub as azura seems to be good for pub quiz from photos I’ve seen of the ventura pub I don’t like the looks and would think it does look good for

much to be honest. 
 

I would assume p&o being as big as they are will have weighed all the possibilities and are hoping that the Iona will be the “new cool” kind cruise for younger people rather than the rest of the fleet. 
 

I do wonder what the Iona will be like in terms of people and I’m sure we will find out if it’s maybe going to attract the wrong kinds, I wouldn’t particularly like to be on there with hen nights or stag dos and I’m not exactly old but I just like somewhere in the middle of posh and not so posh. 
 

do think the ship looks fantastic though and I can’t wait to go on it. 

[mcloaked]

There are clearly different kinds of cruise ship, and hopefully that will continue to be the case - there is the brash American style ship with the dodgems on deck, the waterslides that shoot partly outside of the deck line, with the climbing wall, and the push to make sure that everyone spends as much as possible in the bars, and shops and the encouragement for people to be doing something every moment they are on board, and then there are the more costly but luxurious smaller ships with an emphasis on all inclusive shore excursions, and super quality meals for every meal, plus more luxurious rooms, and then there are the more English style of cruises that 'hope to emulate' some of the American money spinning ideas. There is the classic English quieter cruise, where you can sit in a lounge and be gently asked by a polite waiter if you would like a drink, but not be constantly pestered to do so, and enjoy a full evening of ballroom dancing.  Not all cruises suit all passengers but it is nice there is a choice so everyone can book the cruise style that suits them best.  For some the booze cruise will be great - so long as they can drink and party and come back not remembering anything about the cruise so they 'must' have had a good time if they can't remember what happened.

 

There are the family cruises where the kids can go wild jumping in and out of the pool, and making lots of noise as they race to the top of the water slides and shriek with delight as they shoot down to the pool.  If that floats your boat then enjoy it to the maximum.  For me however, I like quiet sophistication, and be able to relax whilst doing activities such as ballroom dancing, walking the promenade deck, having nice food with attentive waiters where the gentle background social chat can be heard but not at a level where the noise is so high that you can't have a conversation with the person opposite at the table - or the quiet end-of-evening drink at the top of the ship with a pianist playing and singing. Or on a warm sunny day sitting in the shade on deck having a drink or lunch, or playing table tennis, or finding the short tennis court and having a game of tennis to keep the arms working.  That might not suit everyone but that's fine - and long may it be the case that there is a range of different types of cruise to suit the varying tastes people have for a holiday.

 

Iona doesn't appear to be likely to have the kind of facilities or atmosphere that would suit us, but presumably the marketing gurus at P&O will have done their research and decided that there are enough people who want to pay to go on a cruise where the facilities on Iona will be what they want, and all the cabins on the ship will be filled for every voyage. But I will be happy if there are still ships offering the kind of atmosphere and facilities that I enjoy. If not then the land-based holidays are still there, and some fraction have similar kinds of facilities to those we prefer on the cruises we like.

[Britboys]

I think the issue here is that from my point of view, Iona is not an evolution for P&O in perhaps the way that Britannia is.  Iona seems to me to be very much a revolution, a game-changer.  By and large, I think P&O are probably being quite sensible in trying to find a way forward for the future - even though for me - and many others who prefer 'traditional' cruising, the direction that they are going in is not one I wish to take with them.

An added complication is that most cruise lines have a lot of continuity throughout their fleet in terms of size and facilities.  When Iona sails in May, the variety in terms of both size and style of ships in the P&O fleet is huge.  That can be seen as a plus but with so many people seeming to book holidays without proper research beforehand, that variety could be very confusing and lead to dissatisfaction for some pax.

I do understand what Vampiress88 says about making assumptions and that some of those could be wrong. I do however know that absolutely nothing about Iona appeals to me. I like a gentle, reasonably sophisticated ship.  I only need/want a main dining room and perhaps one (or at most 2) alternative venues to eat in and one or two glamorous bars to either have a quiet drink or listen to some laid-back music.  I generally only sail on the smallest ships in P&O's fleet. I like Club Dining (and have done so since 1995), enjoy two Formal Nights per week and love the quiet ambience that the smaller ships still offer.  I have tried Azura twice and hated it both times.  I adored Oriana, love Aurora, like Arcadia and can take or leave Oceana.  Oh, and by the way, whilst I am not the 'younger' crowd that Iona is being marketed to, neither am I ancient 😁. I may well try Britannia at some stage for a cruise of no more than 7 nights initially.  I don't intend to try Ventura or Iona.  I genuinely believe that when it comes to cruising, I know what I like - and what I am very unlikely to like!

Should Aurora & Arcadia leave P&O whilst I am still able to cruise, I would book with Fred Olsen or CMV, rather than move to another of the Carnival stable.

To return to the starting point of this post, I am not knocking Iona - it is just that I am confident she is in no way my kind of ship.

[jeanlyon]

You've just said exactly the same as my thinking Andrew.  In every way.

[terrierjohn]

7 minutes ago, jeanlyon said:

You've just said exactly the same as my thinking Andrew.  In every way.

We have very similar tastes to both of you but find that we can find all of those things on Ventura and Azura, and hopefully we will find them on Iona as well. 

Yes the bigger ships have more passengers, but as we also enjoy people watching, then there's plenty more opportunity for that.

We have 2 winter cruises already booked on Iona and I am hoping that the new facilities will enable us to add another ship to our list of cruising options.

[AndyMichelle]

26 minutes ago, Britboys said:

I think the issue here is that from my point of view, Iona is not an evolution for P&O in perhaps the way that Britannia is.  Iona seems to me to be very much a revolution, a game-changer.  By and large, I think P&O are probably being quite sensible in trying to find a way forward for the future - even though for me - and many others who prefer 'traditional' cruising, the direction that they are going in is not one I wish to take with them.

An added complication is that most cruise lines have a lot of continuity throughout their fleet in terms of size and facilities.  When Iona sails in May, the variety in terms of both size and style of ships in the P&O fleet is huge.  That can be seen as a plus but with so many people seeming to book holidays without proper research beforehand, that variety could be very confusing and lead to dissatisfaction for some pax.

I do understand what Vampiress88 says about making assumptions and that some of those could be wrong. I do however know that absolutely nothing about Iona appeals to me. I like a gentle, reasonably sophisticated ship.  I only need/want a main dining room and perhaps one (or at most 2) alternative venues to eat in and one or two glamorous bars to either have a quiet drink or listen to some laid-back music.  I generally only sail on the smallest ships in P&O's fleet. I like Club Dining (and have done so since 1995), enjoy two Formal Nights per week and love the quiet ambience that the smaller ships still offer.  I have tried Azura twice and hated it both times.  I adored Oriana, love Aurora, like Arcadia and can take or leave Oceana.  Oh, and by the way, whilst I am not the 'younger' crowd that Iona is being marketed to, neither am I ancient 😁. I may well try Britannia at some stage for a cruise of no more than 7 nights initially.  I don't intend to try Ventura or Iona.  I genuinely believe that when it comes to cruising, I know what I like - and what I am very unlikely to like!

Should Aurora & Arcadia leave P&O whilst I am still able to cruise, I would book with Fred Olsen or CMV, rather than move to another of the Carnival stable.

To return to the starting point of this post, I am not knocking Iona - it is just that I am confident she is in no way my kind of ship.

Very well said. 

In comparison to you, we are relatively new to cruising, but we have done quite a few in a fairly short space of time and only have Arcadia to go to complete a full house and have done some of the ships numerous times. 

We manage to take good points from every cruise, but our thinking is that we prefer the smaller ships, although we really liked Britannia.

With Aurora for example, the whole ambience changes. 

We have cancelled our Iona cruise and replaced it with 14 nights on Aurora for a similar itinerary. 

When we list all the things we like, Iona is losing a lot of them. 

I'm sure Iona will be fantastic for many passengers, but just feel it will be too full on for us. 

Thank goodness for choice. 

Andy 

[Britboys]

6 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

We have very similar tastes to both of you but find that we can find all of those things on Ventura and Azura, and hopefully we will find them on Iona as well. 

Yes the bigger ships have more passengers, but as we also enjoy people watching, then there's plenty more opportunity for that.

We have 2 winter cruises already booked on Iona and I am hoping that the new facilities will enable us to add another ship to our list of cruising options.

As I have said before, it is interesting how we all experience the ships differently.  My over-riding impression from both cruises on Azura was of a very noisy, very crowded ship - something I have never felt about P&O's smaller ships.

[AndyMichelle]

1 minute ago, Britboys said:

As I have said before, it is interesting how we all experience the ships differently.  My over-riding impression from both cruises on Azura was of a very noisy, very crowded ship - something I have never felt about P&O's smaller ships.

Same here, but surprisingly didn't feel like that on Britannia. 

We have still had good holidays on Azura and Ventura, slightly preferring Ventura, but you can't get away from the feeling of having to queue for everything. 

Andy 

[jeanlyon]

Exactly what I felt about Azura, including queuing for 45 minutes to get back on board in 90 degrees!  Also as you walk through on Prom Deck, you can't see the sea.  That, mixed with the seascreen and loud music everywhere, never again.  So that rules out :Ventura and I wouldn't even try Britannia.

[kruzseeka]

7 minutes ago, Britboys said:

As I have said before, it is interesting how we all experience the ships differently.  My over-riding impression from both cruises on Azura was of a very noisy, very crowded ship - something I have never felt about P&O's smaller ships.

 

To say Azura is a larger ship we never seemed to be able to find somewhere to settle down in the evening.  After the early show it was like an Olympic event to get to Malabar.  We gave up!  With no Crow's Nest like Arcadia and Aurora or alternative lounges with any space we really felt Azura didn't work well for us.  There simply wasn't enough public spaces for the number of passengers imo.   We therefore don't want to go on Ventura for that reason. 

 

There's an itinerary we'd dearly love to do again but we won't consider it on Ventura.  Last time we did it on Oriana and it was great - 35 nights and we felt perfectly happy to have lots of sea days and options of places to go.  With the problems we experienced on Azura finding somewhere to relax in the evening,  five weeks on Ventura is just not at all attractive. Shame.

 

However friends tell us that Britannia, whilst even bigger, doesn't feel so crowded so perhaps there is a better balance of public spaces to passenger numbers.  I suppose we might be tempted to give it a try - but only for a relatively short itinerary- just in case we don't warm to the larger ship.

 

 

 

 

[Britboys]

22 minutes ago, kruzseeka said:

 

To say Azura is a larger ship we never seemed to be able to find somewhere to settle down in the evening.  After the early show it was like an Olympic event to get to Malabar.  We gave up!  With no Crow's Nest like Arcadia and Aurora or alternative lounges with any space we really felt Azura didn't work well for us.  There simply wasn't enough public spaces for the number of passengers imo.   We therefore don't want to go on Ventura for that reason. 

 

There's an itinerary we'd dearly love to do again but we won't consider it on Ventura.  Last time we did it on Oriana and it was great - 35 nights and we felt perfectly happy to have lots of sea days and options of places to go.  With the problems we experienced on Azura finding somewhere to relax in the evening,  five weeks on Ventura is just not at all attractive. Shame.

 

However friends tell us that Britannia, whilst even bigger, doesn't feel so crowded so perhaps there is a better balance of public spaces to passenger numbers.  I suppose we might be tempted to give it a try - but only for a relatively short itinerary- just in case we don't warm to the larger ship.

 

 

 

 

Very much sums up my experiences on Azura and thoughts on Britannia.  I think it was a problem with the later Grand Class ships - they added an extra full deck of cabins to the original Grand Class design but without any additional public spaces at all.

[davecttr]

3 hours ago, Britboys said:

Very much sums up my experiences on Azura and thoughts on Britannia.  I think it was a problem with the later Grand Class ships - they added an extra full deck of cabins to the original Grand Class design but without any additional public spaces at all.

They also further reduced the public space on Azura and Ventura by replacing the lounge section of the main bar with single cabins

[Suebiker]

On 1/10/2020 at 5:28 PM, John Castle said:

We have just returned from a P&O cruise where we were told that as a company policy the Iona will not have Ballroom Dance hosts or provision for dancing even on the scrappy Atrium floors that suffice on Brittania, Ventura etc.

Apparently they want a younger customer profile. Good luck with that as it may mean that filling this 5000 pax vessel will be difficult outside school holidays.

We have used P&O a number of times and choose them for several reasons, not least being the opportunity to dance in the evenings. It may only be a small number of dancers but there are always a lot of people who like to sit, drink and watch the dancing.

This marketing decision means that we will definitely not be cruising on the Iona.

 

 

Brittania has  "The Crystal Room" which is like a ballroom and has a dancefloor and plenty of seating. Dancing is not in the Atrium as it is on Ventura and Azura.  I was surprised how large it was tbh!!!!

 

 

[Clodia]

The public spaces on Iona look fantastic, but there will be so many people that you'll have to arrive as a sperm to get a seat anywhere! And there will be the usual couples hogging 4 seats who won't let anyone else sit down.

[cjthedjeu]

Oh come on, why is everyone so negative about Iona before anyone has seen it. The level of seating available will be proportionate to the max number of passengers and therefore should not feel any more crowded than any other ship. We were on Britannia for Baltic cruise last year and it was apparently full but there was plenty of seating whenever we needed it, however on recent RCI cruise on smaller ship it was far more cramped and we always struggled to find seating. We will only be able to judge Iona when she sails and we can see how everyone feels then, until that time comes, be happy and keep smiling...it confuses people!!!

[AndyMichelle]

26 minutes ago, cjthedjeu said:

Oh come on, why is everyone so negative about Iona before anyone has seen it. The level of seating available will be proportionate to the max number of passengers and therefore should not feel any more crowded than any other ship. We were on Britannia for Baltic cruise last year and it was apparently full but there was plenty of seating whenever we needed it, however on recent RCI cruise on smaller ship it was far more cramped and we always struggled to find seating. We will only be able to judge Iona when she sails and we can see how everyone feels then, until that time comes, be happy and keep smiling...it confuses people!!!

You are right of course, nobody knows until we try it. 

I too did not find Britannia particularly crowded, apart from the lifts, but the fear for me is the taking away of the things we like. 

Obviously it will suit many, but it has made us think more about what we want from a cruise and the main selling points of Iona are not what we are looking for... It doesn't mean my opinion is right, it will be fantastic for the majority... 

Andy 

[Suebiker]

26 minutes ago, cjthedjeu said:

Oh come on, why is everyone so negative about Iona before anyone has seen it. The level of seating available will be proportionate to the max number of passengers and therefore should not feel any more crowded than any other ship. We were on Britannia for Baltic cruise last year and it was apparently full but there was plenty of seating whenever we needed it, however on recent RCI cruise on smaller ship it was far more cramped and we always struggled to find seating. We will only be able to judge Iona when she sails and we can see how everyone feels then, until that time comes, be happy and keep smiling...it confuses people!!!

 

Thank you for saying what I was thinking. I couldn't agree more.   The negativity is draining tbh. Unfortunately this seems to happen every time a new ship is launched.  I am really looking forward to sailing on Iona.  

[gillybean1974]

I was hesitant to book Britannia for our 2 week Med cruise due to its large capacity and being summer holidays. We're used to much smaller ships (1500ish passengers). I was surprised though that I rarely felt crowded at all compared to previous cruises. Embarkation days was busy by the lifts, top deck sunbathing on sea days and the last day around the shopping area were the only times the ship ever felt busy to me. Apart from those times the amount of people were a non issue, could always get a seat wherever I wanted, never had to wait longer than 5 minutes for a table for 2 at dinner, the buffet area was also huge so always had a choice of seats. When I look back on previous cruises on much smaller ships those things were more of an issue.  Only issue would be sunbeds (but I don't sunbathe so non issue for me).

My favourite moments on Britannia were getting up early in the morning to go up on top deck to grab a coffee and watch the sunrise, there were times it felt that I had the ship to myself as it was so peaceful. So while I was initially hesitant to book on such a large ship, I had no hesitation for booking on Iona due to my experiences on Britannia

[Showingthatgame]

My worries with Iona is not the number of passengers. There are plenty of large ships which have plenty of public space. Space ratio is by far the more important number to consider. Ionas public space to number of passengers is really low so I can see why people are negative about it.

 

That being said her size does mean she has a lot to do. So I think it will come down to more how well the space is managed. 

 

Space ratios

39.4-33.2 Britianna

37.3-32.1 Ventura/Azura

29-26 Iona (approximate)

 

[purplesea]

We are booked to sail on Iona and I am looking forward to it.  I know she is big, maybe we love, like or hate her, but until we've been we won't know! 

When we originally booked Britannia we thought she was going to be too big, but after having sailed on her several times we no longer think that.  We don't find her particularly crowded and can normally find somewhere to sit in the various venues. 

 

 

[John Castle]

13 hours ago, Showingthatgame said:

My worries with Iona is not the number of passengers. There are plenty of large ships which have plenty of public space. Space ratio is by far the more important number to consider. Ionas public space to number of passengers is really low so I can see why people are negative about it.

 

That being said her size does mean she has a lot to do. So I think it will come down to more how well the space is managed. 

 

Space ratios

39.4-33.2 Britianna

37.3-32.1 Ventura/Azura

29-26 Iona (approximate)

 

 

My original post was concerned with the changed marketing policy: NO Club dining, NO Ballroom dancing and reduced formal nights.

In reality the size may not matter . We have sailed on Ventura and Britania several times and never felt crowded although your space ratio calculation may indicate that could be different on Iona.