Another tragic event on the Golden Princess

[MicCanberra]

Sad for all concerned, especially the family. 

https://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/incidents/cruise-ship-returns-to-melbourne-after-passenger-goes-missing/news-story/f4be8f79557ff0a3392c6ed91a64c35d

[Fletch1]

Yep, I would agree with that. 

[NSWP]

It happens unfortunately, not the first and not the last.

[Brisbane41]

The problem is that it is just selfish and inconsiderate of other people. They do not understand the trauma and sadness they impose on other people with their selfish decisions. How are you going to explain something like that to a child on board who are likely to be easily upset with such things. Just last year I had a 10 year old cruise with me and like all people they are there for a holiday. Sad news like that traumatises the people on board and puts a dampener on their mood.

 

Thankfully the news is finally starting to publish the truth unlike the last time on that P&O Australia ship where it was a jumper and we had all these people commenting on here how she fell off and it was a tragic accident. I commented then that the only way a person can go off a ship is three ways. 1 - murder, 2 - suicide, and 3 - deliberate acts of skylarking. I even had people comment that I should add a number 4 to my list, but no I held my ground and was proven correct.

 

What really irritates me is that it also impacts on the designs of ships and the subtle changes they start to make. Particularly up on the top decks of the Grand class you used to be able to go right up to the rails. Now there are two rows of rails on the top deck preventing access to the edge. Its just irritating during scenic cruising and for photography if you have a wide angle camera and take a photo from the railing and then find there is the second railing in the photo at the base of the image. I wonder how long it will be before balconies are protected.

[The_Big_M]

Some fair comments on the impacts, Brisbane. Though in respect of your first point, they're not doing it specifically against other people - and even then, it should be considered that 'emotional' events like holidays, Christmas and so on cause a spike in these happenings, which is understandable as humans are emotional beings. So your assessment in that respect is harsh and unrealistic.

 

A later update came out on arrival that after viewing CCTV, police advised there are no suspicious circumstances.

Edited January 23, 2019 by The_Big_M

[MicCanberra]

Some ships (Solstice, Ovation) have glass panels that are quite tall around 2m in several areas up on the top decks.They serve several purposes, as they block the wind without blocking the view and they also stop access for any one going over.

[cruisin-m]

5 hours ago, Brisbane41 said:

The problem is that it is just selfish and inconsiderate of other people. They do not understand the trauma and sadness they impose on other people with their selfish decisions. How are you going to explain something like that to a child on board who are likely to be easily upset with such things. Just last year I had a 10 year old cruise with me and like all people they are there for a holiday. Sad news like that traumatises the people on board and puts a dampener on their mood.

 

Thankfully the news is finally starting to publish the truth unlike the last time on that P&O Australia ship where it was a jumper and we had all these people commenting on here how she fell off and it was a tragic accident. I commented then that the only way a person can go off a ship is three ways. 1 - murder, 2 - suicide, and 3 - deliberate acts of skylarking. I even had people comment that I should add a number 4 to my list, but no I held my ground and was proven correct.

 

What really irritates me is that it also impacts on the designs of ships and the subtle changes they start to make. Particularly up on the top decks of the Grand class you used to be able to go right up to the rails. Now there are two rows of rails on the top deck preventing access to the edge. Its just irritating during scenic cruising and for photography if you have a wide angle camera and take a photo from the railing and then find there is the second railing in the photo at the base of the image. I wonder how long it will be before balconies are protected.

I agree with this, it’s terrible what happened but to impose that sadness on others whilst they are trying to enjoy a well earned holiday is really low. It totally tarnishes the experience for the thousands of other people on board.

[GUT2407]

3 hours ago, cruisin-m said:

I agree with this, it’s terrible what happened but to impose that sadness on others whilst they are trying to enjoy a well earned holiday is really low. It totally tarnishes the experience for the thousands of other people on board.

And you think someone who is suicidal is thinking rationally?

 

especially about other people???

[MicCanberra]

Yes, while they may or may not be thinking rationally, they are certainly not thinking about how the other passengers' holiday is going to be affected.

[Pushka]

1 hour ago, GUT2407 said:

And you think someone who is suicidal is thinking rationally?

 

especially about other people???

 

This is the post that shows an understanding of depression. Logical arguments are irrelevant. 

[Brisbane41]

The whole thing is a mess. The Navy discharges people with depression and PTSD and keeps them off their ships. The worst than can happen is that cruise lines implement a policy making passengers get a Doctors certificate to say a person has never been depressed in their life.

 

To book a cruise and complete a full holiday before they take the act means there was a lot of forethought and premeditation into it before the act was carried out. Unless of course they ran up a massive debt they could never repay and thought there was no way out.

 

I have met many elderly people who go on cruises to recover from being depressed due to the loss of a life long partner. Imagine what this sort of stuff does to them if they are on board.

[puppycanducruise]

Our sympathy to the family and friends.

[The_Big_M]

11 minutes ago, Brisbane41 said:

To book a cruise and complete a full holiday before they take the act means there was a lot of forethought and premeditation into it before the act was carried out. Unless of course they ran up a massive debt they could never repay and thought there was no way out.

 

As I said before, it's a more emotional time. While they may not be in a positive frame of mind, it doesn't mean that the cruise is planned as a place for it to happen. Just like at Christmas and other events, there can be arguments, there can be drinking, there can be lots of things that bring on a spontaneous event and it happens while onboard. 

 

[Pushka]

7 hours ago, The_Big_M said:

 

As I said before, it's a more emotional time. While they may not be in a positive frame of mind, it doesn't mean that the cruise is planned as a place for it to happen. Just like at Christmas and other events, there can be arguments, there can be drinking, there can be lots of things that bring on a spontaneous event and it happens while onboard. 

 

 

Well said. 

[MicCanberra]

Agreed, I am not sure someone premeditates suicide to the extent of booking a cruise. More like events or emotion get the better of them while on it.

[NSWP]

Heavy gambling losses can lead to suicide, ships included.

[MicCanberra]

The reasons are many and varied, it may have had bad news or anything really.

[Pushka]

18 minutes ago, MicCanberra said:

The reasons are many and varied, it may have had bad news or anything really.

 

Or just - depression. 

[MicCanberra]

6 minutes ago, Pushka said:

 

Or just - depression. 

yes, it is nearly always because of that, it is what causes the depression that differs.

[Docker123]

Depression is only one of the predisposing factors to suicide, or attempts.

 

A whole lot of other factors can be involved — health, chronic pain, drugs and alcohol, other emotional and behavioural problems (aggressive behaviours, narcissistic) some psychoses, break ups, loss of face, etc. etc etc.

 

It is not typically a situation where others are considered. It is an action where a person is trying to remove the ”pain” they are experiencing in a maladaptive manner.

 

Most people with depression do not attempt suicide, or really engage in sucidal ideation. Many without depression do.

 

 

 

[MicCanberra]

Agreed, my point was that most people are in a depressed state when they attempt suicide, not that they necessarily suffer from depression.

[GUT2407]

21 hours ago, Pushka said:

 

This is the post that shows an understanding of depression. Logical arguments are irrelevant. 

Unfortunately I do understand depression, all too well I’m afraid.

 

even worse I am well acquainted with suicide and attempts.

Edited January 24, 2019 by GUT2407

[GUT2407]

2 hours ago, Docker123 said:

Depression is only one of the predisposing factors to suicide, or attempts.

 

A whole lot of other factors can be involved — health, chronic pain, drugs and alcohol, other emotional and behavioural problems (aggressive behaviours, narcissistic) some psychoses, break ups, loss of face, etc. etc etc.

 

It is not typically a situation where others are considered. It is an action where a person is trying to remove the ”pain” they are experiencing in a maladaptive manner.

 

Most people with depression do not attempt suicide, or really engage in sucidal ideation. Many without depression do.

 

 

 

So true, and so few people have any sort of grasp of true depression.

[Pushka]

8 minutes ago, GUT2407 said:

Unfortunately I do understand depression, all too well I’m afraid.

 

even worse I am well acquainted with suicide and attempts.

 

What can I say but you are not alone in this. 

[GUT2407]

Like so many things in life you generally never know the full story.

 

im currently heavily involved in advocacy in relation to the authorities trying to restrict access to various pain medications, mainly, but not exclusively, opiates.

 

The outcry started in the USA and spread, part of the claim is that many deaths have been cause$ by these drugs, but there are some indications (in my opinion strong indications) that a large percentage of these deaths aren’t abuse but suicide by people who reached the end of their ability to cope with severe chronic pain, and the argument is that removing (or threatening to remove) their one source of relief is just an afrevating factor.

 

But even when notes are left it is hard to prove one way or the other.