Hang your head in shame RC

[Psycho and Barb]

Interesting...Hope OP posts a final report 

[SRF]

5 hours ago, Merion_Mom said:

 

No, they don't.  Every cabin belongs to a category.  Each category has a price on a particular cruise.  Different categories will have different prices.   A 5D cabin is a 5D cabin.  Some are accessible.  Most are not.  But all are the same price on the same cruise.  

 

 

What the Chief said was, that is for US customers.  That does not necessarily have to apply to non-US customers.

[StolidCruiser]

The OP has communicated a convoluted and difficult-to-follow claim of discriminatory pricing under two underlying factors – a non-US citizen traveling with someone disabled.

 

The OP claims RC is the one “gouging” them under the first part (being a non-US citizen) but interjects the second part (someone with a disability) as an important facet to the situation.  The OP waffles between the issue being the fact they are a non-US citizen and the issue of necessity for accessible accommodations because of the disabled travelling companion.

 

The OP seems to feel the ADA (Americans with Disabilities Act) applies to non-US citizens making a booking (apparently) in a non-US environment.

 

As other respondents have commented, there are some major critical omissions from the OP’s informative posts:

 

1. The OP has not posted any cabin numbers to determine if a category difference exists to explain the price variation.  There is nothing to prevent such information from being shared as it is not “personal and confidential”.

    

2. The OP claims the price difference is solely because they are a non-US citizen and has an email to prove it (such email being from their travel agent, not RCI).  The contents of this email could also be shared verbatim to evaluate exactly what is being said, easily modified to omit what would be personal and confidential information.

    

3. The OP further opines that, seemingly, the ADA should apply to anyone, anywhere for anything.  This is a misconception that the ADA is universally acknowledged, accepted and enforced.

    

4. The OP makes reference to pricing in US dollars but relates “this would never happen in the UK” further confusing the issues; are they an UK citizen in the UK booking with a UK travel agent? Are they an UK citizen in the UK booking with a US travel agent? Are they a UK citizen in the US booking with a US travel agent?

    

There are far too many inadequately explained factors for the experienced members of this forum to provide recommendations and guidance to the OP’s claim of discrimination (whether it be due to citizenship or disability).

 

Currently, the issue seems to be gross miscommunication between the OP and their travel agent as to the exact nature of the price difference.

 

Hopefully the OP will provide the clarifications necessary to allow others to provide helpful advice to resolve an actual problem to be resolved with the travel agent.

Edited January 23, 2019 by StolidCruiser

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, SRF said:

 

What the Chief said was, that is for US customers.  That does not necessarily have to apply to non-US customers.

No, what I said, possibly badly, was that for US customers, if I want an accessible cabin in category "A" (which is the same price as a non-accessible cabin in category "A"), but none are available, the cruise line has to offer an accessible cabin in category "B" (a better category) at the same price as category "A".  For a non-US customer, if you want an accessible cabin, you have to pay the rate for whatever category accessible cabin is available.  So, the non-US customer, even though they want an "A" cabin, have to take a "B" cabin and pay the higher rate, if no accessible "A" cabins are available.  But, that rate for the "B" accessible cabin, is the same as the rate for the non-accessible "B" cabin.  This is what is meant by the "price protection" the OP mentions in the email, it is not a price difference between an accessible "A" cabin and a non-accessible "A" cabin, it is the difference in price between a non-accessible "A" cabin, and the next higher category, but available, accessible cabin, "B".  A non-US customer would pay the same for an accessible "A" cabin as they would for a non-accessible "A" cabin, if the accessible "A" cabin were available.

[papaflamingo]

8 hours ago, Thorny990 said:

I don't have anger towards RCI I am simply making a point that what they are trying to do (if it is them ) is Discrimination

 

Actually your title "Hang your head in shame RC" indicates you are actually angry with Royal Caribbean and holding them responsible.  And if you are truly being discriminated against, regardless of why, you have every right to be angry.  But discrimination is a very serious allegation, at least here in the U.S.  It is a legitimate basis for a law suit.  I would suggest that it's very unlikely Royal Caribbean discriminates against non-U.S. Citizens, and I'm certain they don't discriminate against disabled passengers.  I'm betting there is a different issue that caused the $600 additional charge.  I'm not defending Royal Caribbean, but if you are really a victim of discrimination, you should file a lawsuit.  No one should have to experience that.  If there's another reason for it, then that is what should be discussed.   

[Starry Eyes]

There are only a couple Allure cruises with available accessiblecabins this June.  Frankly, I was surprised to see any available accessible cabins.  On one cruise there was an accessible balcony cabin available.  While itwould be priced the same as other “pick your own” cabins in that category, a flexible, able bodied person could book a guarantee balcony at a substantial savings....not quite the $600 mentioned by OP, but close enough to suggest this might possibly be the origin of the issue...just a guess.  If so, the accessible cabin is not in the same category is the other, regular cabins being priced by the TA.

[Ourusualbeach]

8 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

No, what I said, possibly badly, was that for US customers, if I want an accessible cabin in category "A" (which is the same price as a non-accessible cabin in category "A"), but none are available, the cruise line has to offer an accessible cabin in category "B" (a better category) at the same price as category "A".  For a non-US customer, if you want an accessible cabin, you have to pay the rate for whatever category accessible cabin is available.  So, the non-US customer, even though they want an "A" cabin, have to take a "B" cabin and pay the higher rate, if no accessible "A" cabins are available.  But, that rate for the "B" accessible cabin, is the same as the rate for the non-accessible "B" cabin.  This is what is meant by the "price protection" the OP mentions in the email, it is not a price difference between an accessible "A" cabin and a non-accessible "A" cabin, it is the difference in price between a non-accessible "A" cabin, and the next higher category, but available, accessible cabin, "B".  A non-US customer would pay the same for an accessible "A" cabin as they would for a non-accessible "A" cabin, if the accessible "A" cabin were available.

I know that what you stated about if a category A is not available they get offered a category B for the price of a category A however in my experience this bo longer happens.

 

Speaking about Carnival, I know that they used to do this as there was an agent in our office that used to wait until all the lower category accessible cabins got booked then called and ended up with a suite category of an accessible cabin for the price of an inside. Carnival put a stop to this a couple of years ago.

 

I’m not sure if Royal does this however I have not read any reports of them doing this recently. 

Edited January 23, 2019 by Ourusualbeach

[Teacher42]

Dear Thor,  Try calling a online discounter to get a price and compare it to your TA's price.

[Starry Eyes]

9 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

No, what I said, possibly badly, was that for US customers, if I want an accessible cabin in category "A" (which is the same price as a non-accessible cabin in category "A"), but none are available, the cruise line has to offer an accessible cabin in category "B" (a better category) at the same price as category "A".  For a non-US customer, if you want an accessible cabin, you have to pay the rate for whatever category accessible cabin is available.  So, the non-US customer, even though they want an "A" cabin, have to take a "B" cabin and pay the higher rate, if no accessible "A" cabins are available.  But, that rate for the "B" accessible cabin, is the same as the rate for the non-accessible "B" cabin.  This is what is meant by the "price protection" the OP mentions in the email, it is not a price difference between an accessible "A" cabin and a non-accessible "A" cabin, it is the difference in price between a non-accessible "A" cabin, and the next higher category, but available, accessible cabin, "B".  A non-US customer would pay the same for an accessible "A" cabin as they would for a non-accessible "A" cabin, if the accessible "A" cabin were available.

Chief, let’s say the cruiseline initially offers accessible cabins in both A and B.  Accessible cabins in category A sell-out on this sailing (just like lower priced non-accessible cabins can sell-out on many sailings).  Does your above post mean to imply that the cruiseline is obligated to now sell category B accessible cabins at category A prices (better cabin at same price by waiting)? Or, is it snooze-you-lose, and the prevailing rate for category B apply now that A is sold out? My impression is the later...price protection is rather limited.

[gatour]

As the chief said different countries have different disability laws.  Royal Carribbean is just applying the UK version of the law since you are resident of the UK.   The Google privacy analogy that someone post above is a good one.  Being a United States citizen, I wish we had privacy laws comparable to the EU, however we don't, so I am resigned to companies following the US laws.

 

[Teacher42]

Dear Thor,  I have discovered that base prices from different sources are about the same (within $100). It is just the added perks that make the difference, On Board Credit or specialty dining thrown in. An educated consumer can be a happier camper.  I have been able to find some gems among these boards, but you have to weed out the usual characters. This post of yours was great. I found 19 on this thread that were of no help to you or me.

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, Starry Eyes said:

Chief, let’s say the cruiseline initially offers accessible cabins in both A and B.  Accessible cabins in category A sell-out on this sailing (just like lower priced non-accessible cabins can sell-out on many sailings).  Does your above post mean to imply that the cruiseline is obligated to now sell category B accessible cabins at category A prices (better cabin at same price by waiting)? Or, is it snooze-you-lose, and the prevailing rate for category B apply now that A is sold out? My impression is the later...price protection is rather limited.

My understanding of the ADA says that if there are accessible cabins available, and a person wants an accessible cabin, but there are none available in the category desired, then yes, they have to offer the cabin at the rate for the category originally asked for.  There have been some recent changes to the common carrier regulations under the ADA, that may have changed this, I haven't read them completely, they are within the last 3-4 years.

[Itchy&Scratchy]

21 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

My understanding of the ADA says that if there are accessible cabins available, and a person wants an accessible cabin, but there are none available in the category desired, then yes, they have to offer the cabin at the rate for the category originally asked for.  There have been some recent changes to the common carrier regulations under the ADA, that may have changed this, I haven't read them completely, they are within the last 3-4 years.

so, if accessible inside/OV/balcony cabins are all sold out and all that's left is mini-suites, RCI is obliged to sell a mini-suite at a price of an inside cabin? Because what someone desired was an inside cabin.

[Starry Eyes]

29 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

My understanding of the ADA says that if there are accessible cabins available, and a person wants an accessible cabin, but there are none available in the category desired, then yes, they have to offer the cabin at the rate for the category originally asked for.  There have been some recent changes to the common carrier regulations under the ADA, that may have changed this, I haven't read them completely, they are within the last 3-4 years.

I am not an expert, but my understanding is the opposite of yours.  If the cruiseline did not offer any inside accessible cabins, they would have to sell their lowest category of accessible cabin (be it outside balcony whatever) to my DB at the inside price.  If, on the other hand, inside accessible cabins were originally available, but my DB waited too long and inside accessible sold out before he decide to book, he is SOL (just as I would be SOL if cheap regular inside cabins sold out before I booked one).  Honestly, too many people would game the system otherwise; inside and ocean view accessible cabins would quickly book up with refundable deposits, then higher level accessible cabins (balconies and suites) would be demanded, all at inside prices.  People with minimal (or no) disability would likely get into that game too, so demand for cheap accessible digs would be off the charts, such that those who truly need accessible cabins would have even more difficulty getting them.  I hope that is not what is happening.

[chengkp75]

3 hours ago, Starry Eyes said:

I am not an expert, but my understanding is the opposite of yours.  If the cruiseline did not offer any inside accessible cabins, they would have to sell their lowest category of accessible cabin (be it outside balcony whatever) to my DB at the inside price.  If, on the other hand, inside accessible cabins were originally available, but my DB waited too long and inside accessible sold out before he decide to book, he is SOL (just as I would be SOL if cheap regular inside cabins sold out before I booked one).  Honestly, too many people would game the system otherwise; inside and ocean view accessible cabins would quickly book up with refundable deposits, then higher level accessible cabins (balconies and suites) would be demanded, all at inside prices.  People with minimal (or no) disability would likely get into that game too, so demand for cheap accessible digs would be off the charts, such that those who truly need accessible cabins would have even more difficulty getting them.  I hope that is not what is happening.

No, if the cruise line did not offer any inside accessible cabins, they would not have to offer any accessible cabins at the inside price.  I'm saying that if someone wants the lowest category of accessible cabin, and it is sold out, then they have to offer the next higher at the lower rate, but if there never were any inside accessibles, then they don't have offer any at that price.  And, yes, it can lead to gaming the system, I'm not saying its right or wrong, but that's my understanding of the law.

[SRF]

3 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

No, what I said, possibly badly, was that for US customers, if I want an accessible cabin in category "A" (which is the same price as a non-accessible cabin in category "A"), but none are available, the cruise line has to offer an accessible cabin in category "B" (a better category) at the same price as category "A".  For a non-US customer, if you want an accessible cabin, you have to pay the rate for whatever category accessible cabin is available.  So, the non-US customer, even though they want an "A" cabin, have to take a "B" cabin and pay the higher rate, if no accessible "A" cabins are available.  But, that rate for the "B" accessible cabin, is the same as the rate for the non-accessible "B" cabin.  This is what is meant by the "price protection" the OP mentions in the email, it is not a price difference between an accessible "A" cabin and a non-accessible "A" cabin, it is the difference in price between a non-accessible "A" cabin, and the next higher category, but available, accessible cabin, "B".  A non-US customer would pay the same for an accessible "A" cabin as they would for a non-accessible "A" cabin, if the accessible "A" cabin were available.

 

Thanks for the clarification.

[Amberle3]

OP, I would say the issue is with your travel agent and them either not understanding or not communicating clearly with you.  I'm not American, I sailed on RCL with my disabled mother in an accessible room and paid no more for her cabin than for mine.

[Starry Eyes]

34 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

No, if the cruise line did not offer any inside accessible cabins, they would not have to offer any accessible cabins at the inside price.  I'm saying that if someone wants the lowest category of accessible cabin, and it is sold out, then they have to offer the next higher at the lower rate, but if there never were any inside accessibles, then they don't have offer any at that price.  And, yes, it can lead to gaming the system, I'm not saying its right or wrong, but that's my understanding of the law.

My understanding of the law is exactly the opposite of yours.  My understanding is, I believe, more logical...not that law is necessarily logical.

 

Basically, with my interpretation, if my DB and I both want to book the lowest price cabins the moment bookings open for a cruise, he can get the same price for the cheapest accessible cabin as I can for the cheapest “pick your own” regular cabin.  Once categories (accessible or non-accessible) sell out, pricing then start to appear variable.  And accessible cabins are in the “pick your own” categories and therefore have different pricing from “we pick (guarantee)” cabins

 

With your interpretation, if I understand  correctly, a cruiseline does not have to offer any low priced accessible cabins at all.  So, If the lowest accessible is a balcony cabin, when bookings open, I could book an inexpensive inside cabin while my DB would be forced to pay far more for an accessible balcony cabin, even if he only wanted an inside like me.

 

As this does impact a family member, I have read a bit about the subject in the past.  IMNAL nor am I an ADA expert by any means. Still, with all due respect and with great appreciation for your many informative posts, I strongly suspect you have misinterpreted the law this time.

Edited January 23, 2019 by Starry Eyes

[payitforward]

42 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

No, if the cruise line did not offer any inside accessible cabins, they would not have to offer any accessible cabins at the inside price.  I'm saying that if someone wants the lowest category of accessible cabin, and it is sold out, then they have to offer the next higher at the lower rate, but if there never were any inside accessibles, then they don't have offer any at that price.  And, yes, it can lead to gaming the system, I'm not saying its right or wrong, but that's my understanding of the law.

 

As a TA specializing in accessible travel, I can say this is not how it works. Just as able bodied people must pay the price of whatever category is available, so do the disabled.

 

Edited January 23, 2019 by payitforward

[katrina915]

I book many accessible cabins due to my traveling companion. Depending on cruise, we need to book out a year in advance to get inside cabins.  When the inside cabins are not available, you try to find one in another category and you pay the price for that category.

 

OP,

Please post back.  This is troubling if you truly would have to pay more for an accessible cabin for not being an US citizen.

[Thorny990]

Hi Katrina915

I have an email from my travel agents saying that because I am not a US citizen the ADA Act does not apply to me so therefore they are not able to protect the accessible cabin at no extra charge instead it will cost me an extra $658.28

I have the email should you want to see it

Thanks Thorny990

[Starry Eyes]

3 minutes ago, Thorny990 said:

Hi Katrina915

I have an email from my travel agents saying that because I am not a US citizen the ADA Act does not apply to me so therefore they are not able to protect the accessible cabin at no extra charge instead it will cost me an extra $658.28

I have the email should you want to see it

Thanks Thorny990

Thorny, we all know that travel agent wants to blame to price change on your nationality, but if you really want to know the truth get details from that agent.  What cabin numbers did he or she propose booking on what date on the Allure?  Get that info, share it here, and it will be much more clear if your agent is blowing smoke ( as many of us suspect) or if your nationality is actually disadvantaging you. If you are not going to complete the booking at that rate, sharing the cabin numbers on the forum is no skin off your nose.  The email to corporate may not work because your travel agent is in the way.

[orville99]

5 minutes ago, Thorny990 said:

Hi Katrina915

I have an email from my travel agents saying that because I am not a US citizen the ADA Act does not apply to me so therefore they are not able to protect the accessible cabin at no extra charge instead it will cost me an extra $658.28

I have the email should you want to see it

Thanks Thorny990

Which presumably means that the accessible cabin that is being offered is in a different category than the other two cabins, and the TA either did not book an accessible cabin in the same category in time, or there were none available at the time the TA made the booking. Either way, it is a TA issue, not an RCL issue. You are governed by your laws, and we are governed by ours. There are several British laws I wish we had in place in the U.S., and I'm sure there are several U.S. laws that you wish were in place in the U.K.

[kernow]

Are you dealing with a UK ta or a US one? I'm just surprised that a UK ta would mention the ADA act and talk about prices in dollars

 

Julie

[Thorny990]

It is a US TA

She has offered my the chance of a conference call with me The TA and RCI