Removing Gratuity Charges?

[NLH Arizona]

8 minutes ago, Jachred said:

Does anyone have the Contract for housekeeping, or wage agreement?  At bars and restaurants we know what the servers are making, and thus I feel it customary to tip... however, its a huge secret on cruise lines.. I've tried to find how they are compensated....   Ie if they get a 1/2 full ship, do they get 1/2 wages,, or full wages.. Are the wages based on daily/hourly/monthly or guest load?   If it is the same monthly no matter the guest load.. Then my tips are not going to the people, just to NCL... and well.. I won't pay them, because its a scam.... However if they are based on guest load.. then I would happily pay them.... See where I am going with this??

 

 

The following is from a poster who worked in the cruise industry and is in the know:

 

The only thing that is "guaranteed" to a crew member is the minimum total compensation, which is currently $614/month for a 40 hour work week, plus overtime at 125% of the base wage for hours over 40/week. This totals out to about $1500/month. If the base wage, overtime, and DSC totals more than this, per their contract, they get that much, if the DSC is reduced, their wages can drop to the above minimum.

[Aesop081]

Ooh...I love this one...

[All-ready2cruise]

I guess I don't understand why pax can't just pay the DSC and add to it if and when the service exceeds their expectations. It's how I've always done it since I've almost always had wonderful service from great providers of said service. 

 

What is wrong with paying DSC and just adding to it... do peeps not pay grats in restaurants and when at hotels? ... Sorry just don't get it!

[luv2kroooz]

2 hours ago, Shorty6095 said:

 

I definitely did NOT want to open a can of worms.  I had noticed in the threads about this topic that it was mostly people arguing back and forth, instead of having any actual useful information, which is why I decided to make a new post asking about this and hoping for some cut and dry information.  

I absolutely understand both sides of it.  And we would prefer to go the route of removing gratuities, if we are able to.  

Please don't worry. In answer to your question, yes, you can absolutely remove the daily service charge while you are onboard. You have to wait until the day before or two days before the end of the cruise. Evidently, NCL likes to push this into their busiest time period. If you encounter a service issue, talk with the hotel director. If he or she is unable to resolve the problem to your satisfaction, just go to guest services and remove some or all. 

[Shorty6095]

Oh dear, I tried to contain the can of worms, but they were opened anyway...!  I appreciate all of the helpful responses.  I really feel for the workers, they definitely deserve to be paid a livable wage.  I am absolutely NOT one of those people that would remove gratuities and then not follow through on tipping, though I can see how some inconsiderate cruisers would do that.  Please do not group me in with those people.  I'm an American who has worked in the service industry and has MUCH respect and appreciation for service industry workers.  I just thought to ask about removing gratuities because we would rather put generous amounts of cash in the hands of every service industry worker that serves us on the ship.  Now that I see how little each worker gets of those gratuities, I don't think we'll be removing them and we will continue to tip generously with cash, because it sounds like they are underpaid even with the expected gratuity pay.  

[Jachred]

17 minutes ago, All-ready2cruise said:

I guess I don't understand why pax can't just pay the DSC and add to it if and when the service exceeds their expectations. It's how I've always done it since I've almost always had wonderful service from great providers of said service. 

 

What is wrong with paying DSC and just adding to it... do peeps not pay grats in restaurants and when at hotels? ... Sorry just don't get it!

What if you went to said restaurant.. The waiter was paid min wage... You left a tip on your credit card, and the owner took the whole tip, waiter got 0.  But if you tipped directly in cash, the waiter hid it, and kept it all.....

 

Would you still tip on said credit card?    

 

This is not a tipping or not tipping discussion. Its where the money goes discussion.  IE.  The OP and myself want to make sure the money goes to the hands of the crew, and not the company.  

 

 

[Aesop081]

32 minutes ago, All-ready2cruise said:

I guess I don't understand why pax can't just pay the DSC and add to it if and when the service exceeds their expectations. It's how I've always done it since I've almost always had wonderful service from great providers of said service. 

 

What is wrong with paying DSC and just adding to it... do peeps not pay grats in restaurants and when at hotels? ... Sorry just don't get it!

Your last question is the very crux of the matter IMHO.  And the cruise industry has very carefully developed a method of "paying" their staff without it costing them anything.  First off, yes, I tip and I don't remove the DSC. 

 

Your question..."do you not pay grats in resaurants and when at hotels"  I'm certain almost all of us do in western societies.  Other cultures have different rules. Now when I cash tip the bell boy, it all goes into his pocket.  When I cash tip the doorman, it goes into his pocket.  When I tip a waiter/ess, well, that's up to the restaurants rules.  Bartender, same.  BUT you can bet your ass that doorman is not sharing his tips with the maids, the laundry staff, the carpenters etc. Maybe amongst the doormen, the bartenders amongst the bartenders, but not the cleaner who comes in a washes the floors.  And that is what I feel most are arguing about when this subject comes up. For us when we travel, DW, DD and I incur approx. 50 a day in DSC.  That number is just a cost of the cruise that NCL and other lines are afraid to incorporate into their pricing as the cost of paying their staff.  And then they make you feel as if you should pay more to recognize special service.  Well giving reward for special service is the original reason that tipping came into existence. Not as employer financial relief aid, but that's what society has turned tipping into everywhere.  An employer should pay it's employees a fair wage and I should be able to tip whomever I want when great service is provided.  Not just because someone works there and just does their job.  

Edited February 27, 2019 by Aesop081
removed redundant wording

[luv2kroooz]

2 hours ago, FranknBeans said:

This topic makes me crazy.

 

Why would anyone want to steal food from the staffs mouth who work so hard 7 days a week at all hours to feed their families back home. 

 

If you don't want to pay then maybe you should just stick to camping.

I don't think anyone wants to steal food. I think it is more about providing a service in exchange for a fee. I have a lot of respect for the hard working crew, but you are making it out to be an entitlement which it is not. I've had lazy stateroom stewards and awesome stateroom stewards.

 

Like everything else in the cruise industry, the current price for the daily charge is pretty much maxed out. We used to support a stateroom steward and dining staff. Now, in addition, we are supporting "behind the scenes" personnel. We don't see them, but they evidently make our vacation awesome. On NCL, we have the privilege of paying a daily charge, some portion of which is intended to cover our meals, plus we get to pay an additional 20% fee if we choose to eat lunch or dinner in a restaurant. Quite candidly, it is getting ridiculous. Actually, it has been ridiculous for quite some time.

[DirtyDawg]

24 minutes ago, Shorty6095 said:

Oh dear, I tried to contain the can of worms, but they were opened anyway...!  I appreciate all of the helpful responses.  I really feel for the workers, they definitely deserve to be paid a livable wage.  I am absolutely NOT one of those people that would remove gratuities and then not follow through on tipping, though I can see how some inconsiderate cruisers would do that.  Please do not group me in with those people.  I'm an American who has worked in the service industry and has MUCH respect and appreciation for service industry workers.  I just thought to ask about removing gratuities because we would rather put generous amounts of cash in the hands of every service industry worker that serves us on the ship.  Now that I see how little each worker gets of those gratuities, I don't think we'll be removing them and we will continue to tip generously with cash, because it sounds like they are underpaid even with the expected gratuity pay.  

 

Don't worry about that can of worms you opened up, those worms are well tipped here on the good ship CC. 

 

 

 

 

[LD Silver]

4 hours ago, Shorty6095 said:

Hello all, first time cruiser here!  We'll be on the Pearl from Mar 6-10.  I have been scouring these message boards and finding lots of information!  One thing I've seen mentioned multiple times is that we have the option to remove the gratuity charges from our credit card that we made the reservation with.  We would prefer to tip with cash.  Even if we aren't able to remove the gratuities from the credit card, we'll still tip with cash while on the ship because that is just how we are.  We are very appreciative of those in the service industry and we'd rather put cash in their hand instead of NCL deciding how to divide up gratuity. 

Anyways... is having the gratuity charges removed as simple as calling NCL?

Don't do it, cheapskate

[BirdTravels]

4 hours ago, Shorty6095 said:

 Anyways... is having the gratuity charges removed as simple as calling NCL?

After you pay the Daily Service Charge on the ship AND your cruise is complete, you can contact guest arrives with your complaint to have your DSC removed. 

 

The DSC goes to those you directly interact with and behind the scenes crew members who work VERY HARD to make your cruise experience wonderful. Don’t cheat the hard working crew that deserves your DSC. Don’t do cash tips if you are trying to save money. 

[erdoran]

15 minutes ago, LD Silver said:

Don't do it, cheapskate

And this type of post, along with “stiffing”, “stealing”, “cheating” and other nastiness shuts down honest discusssions.  Why do people assume if someone removes DSC they do NOT tip the same $$ or more to the crew members who worked so hard to make their vacations memorable?  How is a GRATUITY now an ENTITLEMENT?  Why is it the passenger’s responsibility to pay the staff?

 

The bit about the behind the scenes people who DSC compensates is exactly what was discussed up-thread, businesses abusing the tipping system to increase their revenue by adding lots of upcharges to the advertised “7-day sailing from $499!”  Unfortunately, though, it is a reality, and a sucky one, because that guilts people into leaving their DSC in place AND handing out tips above that, the tips that the crew should have gotten in the first place without DSC.

 

UBP 20% autograt - read it carefully.   BEVERAGE SERVICE CHARGE (NCL keeps) and gratuity (which I assume goes to staff).  No info about who gets what %.  But if I’ve already paid hundreds of dollars in fake autograts, I’m less likely to hand over extra tips to bar staff.

 

Full disclosure - I’ve been shamed into paying DSC even though I’d rather direct tip.  But geez, is it really CHEATING the staff?  And if you truly believe that, WHO is cheating them - the pax who doesn’t pay a supposedly-optional charge, or the cruise line who doesn’t pay them a fair salary?  Think about that one.

 

Edited February 27, 2019 by erdoran

[Jachred]

1 hour ago, NLH Arizona said:

The following is from a poster who worked in the cruise industry and is in the know:

 

The only thing that is "guaranteed" to a crew member is the minimum total compensation, which is currently $614/month for a 40 hour work week, plus overtime at 125% of the base wage for hours over 40/week. This totals out to about $1500/month. If the base wage, overtime, and DSC totals more than this, per their contract, they get that much, if the DSC is reduced, their wages can drop to the above minimum.

I wonder how often it goes above the minimum..  what is the base wage that the Dsc is added to to come up with so they get over the the min...   at what % full is it worth removing the dsc and directly doling it out to get the crew more?

 

 

[thetaro]

For whatever reason people decided that they want to pay at their own terms, whether you are abusing the DSC refund policy or not, the end result is that everyone suffers besides you probably paid less.

NCL would eventually tighten the refund policy and make it mandatory. Bunch of UK members on MSC board went crazy when they hear that news. So it would be hard to actually get a refund when there is actually a bad service. That hurts everyone.

[erdoran]

3 minutes ago, thetaro said:

For whatever reason people decided that they want to pay at their own terms, whether you are abusing the DSC refund policy or not, the end result is that everyone suffers besides you probably paid less.

NCL would eventually tighten the refund policy and make it mandatory. Bunch of UK members on MSC board went crazy when they hear that news. So it would be hard to actually get a refund when there is actually a bad service. That hurts everyone.

And that’s the myth - that DSC has anything to do with service.  it doesn’t.  If you talk about removing it because of “bad service” you’ll get ganged up on about “punishing everyone else because of one bad employee”. 

 

DSC is an entitlement because NCL made it that way, and CC goes right along with it with all the peer pressure here - this thread is mild compared to some I’ve seen.  

 

 

[Shorty6095]

Thank you to those who understand that my reasoning for asking about removing gratuities, that it has nothing to do with trying to save money.  It has everything to do with being skeptical of NCL taking a cut of the gratuities and not paying a livable wage.  I just assumed that the staff would prefer to be tipped directly with cash.  I'm just a first time cruiser who does not have knowledge about how everything works and I appreciate those who responded without name calling or making assumptions. 

[mugtech]

3 hours ago, FranknBeans said:

I totally agree! Anthony  Bourdain did a show on CNN called "Parts Unknown" and one of the shows  was him in the Philippines. Two thing's I remember clearly from the show was that 80% of the population leaves home to pursue work elsewhere and they do this year after year,  rarely seeing their families. The other was that there version of McDonald's is called Jollibee. You just mention this on your next cruise and watch their faces light up. 

 

 

We prefer Chow King, owned by the same company, just ask them which one they like the best.

[luv2kroooz]

28 minutes ago, Shorty6095 said:

Thank you to those who understand that my reasoning for asking about removing gratuities, that it has nothing to do with trying to save money.  It has everything to do with being skeptical of NCL taking a cut of the gratuities and not paying a livable wage.  I just assumed that the staff would prefer to be tipped directly with cash.  I'm just a first time cruiser who does not have knowledge about how everything works and I appreciate those who responded without name calling or making assumptions. 

Of course NCL is taking a cut. So are Carnival and Royal. They say it all goes to benefit the crew and it does - indirectly....it goes to pay for uniforms, flights to and from the ship, crew parties, onboard programs, laundry staff, who knows who else.....Basically, the things that the employer should provide to it's hard working employees are being funded in part or in full by you and me. It's a very broken system and unlike most employer-employee relationships that you and I are accustomed to.

[thetaro]

50 minutes ago, erdoran said:

And that’s the myth - that DSC has anything to do with service.  it doesn’t.  If you talk about removing it because of “bad service” you’ll get ganged up on about “punishing everyone else because of one bad employee”. 

 

DSC is an entitlement because NCL made it that way, and CC goes right along with it with all the peer pressure here - this thread is mild compared to some I’ve seen.  

 

 

 

It doesn't matter if it goes to employees or not. You pay them through the fare one way or another. It's nothing more than a return policy that gives you a partial refund. When people abuse it, NCL will make it harder to get a refund.

[NLH Arizona]

3 minutes ago, thetaro said:

 

It doesn't matter if it goes to employees or not. You pay them through the fare one way or another. It's nothing more than a return policy that gives you a partial refund. When people abuse it, NCL will make it harder to get a refund.

Or raise fares to compensate for it.

[Jachred]

4 minutes ago, thetaro said:

 

It doesn't matter if it goes to employees or not. You pay them through the fare one way or another. It's nothing more than a return policy that gives you a partial refund. When people abuse it, NCL will make it harder to get a refund.

Ok so pay it  ow so that if enough people pay it all the time then I can get a refund if I sail again and get bad service....    why would you pay more for a service you already paid for...  like if I buy a car and agree on a price and they throw in oh btw you have to give us more for doc fees... to do the sales paperwork... uhmm no I dont buy your product..  same with a cruise.. if it goes to the people as extra... then great.. if it goes into Ncl pocket and crew get the same... let the fare go up... idc at least it will be upfront instead of robbing the crew..

 

 

[PTC DAWG]

Obviously, some here would prefer the old days of envelope tip lines, when many skipped out on that last night...there is a reason Cruise Lines went the DSC Route..

Edited February 27, 2019 by PTC DAWG

[yankees111]

1 hour ago, Shorty6095 said:

Thank you to those who understand that my reasoning for asking about removing gratuities, that it has nothing to do with trying to save money.  It has everything to do with being skeptical of NCL taking a cut of the gratuities and not paying a livable wage.  I just assumed that the staff would prefer to be tipped directly with cash.  I'm just a first time cruiser who does not have knowledge about how everything works and I appreciate those who responded without name calling or making assumptions. 

Don’t be cheap! Don’t remove the tips!!!

[BirdTravels]

6 hours ago, Shorty6095 said:

 

I hear you as far as being skeptical about NCL keeping a small %.  Also the "gratuity" money that is added onto their checks is going to be taxed, giving them even less money.  And from the estimated calculations you just made, that is very little in tip money for a weeks worth of hard work.  I definitely do not want to cut their wages even further, especially the people behind the scenes.  That calculation definitely puts it in perspective for me and now I am rethinking removing the gratuity charges.  We will likely still tip them cash even if we keep the gratuity charges, cause they deserve better.

So, the calculation is totally flawed with poor assumptions, so don't get excited. Just because it is on the internet, does not make it true. 

 

If you tip a waiter in Minneapolis with cash, they are obligated to report that tip as income. And if they don't report enough tip, the IRS will go after them for under reporting and fine them (regardless of how much they really made - % of income) 

Edited February 27, 2019 by BirdTravels

[myjillian]

If the tips go to the employees...how come they get a set paycheck and it doesn't vary???  Sometimes the ships are full...sometimes not.  We have taken about 70 cruises over the past 22 years over all of the cruise lines from 7 days to 33 days and since this "new" policy ( we cruised for years with the white envelope method ) we have questioned many many employees and the answer has always been the same....their paychecks stay the same !!!  So think about it