When Holland America was Holland America

[The Tsar]

First, Thank You all that have contributed to this topic, whether I agree with all comments or not.   I had not expected this topic to be so active.

 

That being said - I wish to add a few additional points that I truly miss.

Room Stewards who had only six staterooms to serve.

Dinning Stewards and Assistants who had two tables to serve.

Full Midnight Buffets- In my younger days 

Ship's port debarkations Galas - Streamers, Fireworks, Live Bands, Complimentary Liquid Toasts.

Roaming musicians through out public areas - Live music in the Dining Rooms.

Pubic Tours to the Bridge and Engine Area.

Wrap around full Promenade Decks (Without Lanais).

Fresh daily flowers throughout the ship.

Captain's Table - Dining Room

Table-side Flaming Deserts

 

The only thing that has stayed relatively constant is the Outstanding Ship Staff, both Onboard and at the Home Office.

[Roz]

6 minutes ago, The Tsar said:

First, Thank You all that have contributed to this topic, whether I agree with all comments or not.   I had not expected this topic to be so active.

 

That being said - I wish to add a few additional points that I truly miss.

Room Stewards who had only six staterooms to serve.

Dinning Stewards and Assistants who had two tables to serve.

Full Midnight Buffets- In my younger days 

Ship's port debarkations Galas - Streamers, Fireworks, Live Bands, Complimentary Liquid Toasts.

Roaming musicians through out public areas - Live music in the Dining Rooms.

Pubic Tours to the Bridge and Engine Area.

Wrap around full Promenade Decks (Without Lanais).

Fresh daily flowers throughout the ship.

Captain's Table - Dining Room

Table-side Flaming Deserts

 

The only thing that has stayed relatively constant is the Outstanding Ship Staff, both Onboard and at the Home Office.

 

Pubic Tours to the Bridge and Engine Area. - I really miss those. 😜

 

Roz

[3rdGenCunarder]

Crew ratios have definitely changed. That's part of what keeps your fare low.

 

The midnight buffets were spectacular to look at, but the waste of food was terrible. The amount of food that some people would take and then not eat was obscene. And not doing the buffets is also keeping your fare low. 

 

Except for the newest HAL ships, there are wrap-around promenade decks. The Lanai cabins don't affect that except for making some loungers not available to everyone. But they don't change the amount of "promenading" space.

 

HAL does still have fresh flowers around the ship. They aren't changed daily (really not necessary to change every day), but they are checked and "tended" as needed. 

 

[rkacruiser]

3 hours ago, The Tsar said:

First, Thank You all that have contributed to this topic, whether I agree with all comments or not.   I had not expected this topic to be so active.

 

That being said - I wish to add a few additional points that I truly miss.

Room Stewards who had only six staterooms to serve.

Dinning Stewards and Assistants who had two tables to serve.

Full Midnight Buffets- In my younger days 

Ship's port debarkations Galas - Streamers, Fireworks, Live Bands, Complimentary Liquid Toasts.

Roaming musicians through out public areas - Live music in the Dining Rooms.

Pubic Tours to the Bridge and Engine Area.

Wrap around full Promenade Decks (Without Lanais).

Fresh daily flowers throughout the ship.

Captain's Table - Dining Room

Table-side Flaming Deserts

 

The only thing that has stayed relatively constant is the Outstanding Ship Staff, both Onboard and at the Home Office.

 

An excellent list of items with some of those now-missing items being gone due to some "expert", some with the US Government, some with HAL itself, decreeing that "tableside flaming preparations are a fire hazard" or "streamers thrown shoreside at sailing posed an environmental hazard" or a "nightly Midnight Buffet" was an excess in gluttony, which it was. 

 

While all of us want to be and stay safe and in good health, sometimes I wonder if I need some "expert" from inside or outside of government to issue regulations/requirements that "they" believe will be to my benefit. 

[rkacruiser]

20 hours ago, Copper10-8 said:

 

Captain Anthonie Lagaay 

 

 

That's my Captain!  And, it has to be a photo taken during his younger years as Master.  In 1970 and 1971, he appeared to have enjoyed more Bitterballen and Dutch Cheese than when this photo was taken.  He was a very much guest oriented Master and did socialize with guests during special evenings aboard Rotterdam V.

[RocketMan275]

On 4/24/2019 at 2:33 PM, Sir PMP said:

Yes, but the problem is that in the old days Hal was run by people who knew the cruise line industry, now we have a couple of knuckle heads running it with zero knowledge of the industry, just trying to save costs for their own benefits..

If you tried to run a cruise line like the 'good ole days', you'd go bankrupt very quickly.  

If it wasn't for the 'knuckle heads', the Holland cruise line wouldn't exist.

[The Tsar]

 

2 hours ago, rkacruiser said:

 

An excellent list of items with some of those now-missing items being gone due to some "expert", some with the US Government, some with HAL itself, decreeing that "tableside flaming preparations are a fire hazard" or "streamers thrown shoreside at sailing posed an environmental hazard" or a "nightly Midnight Buffet" was an excess in gluttony, which it was. 

 

While all of us want to be and stay safe and in good health, sometimes I wonder if I need some "expert" from inside or outside of government to issue regulations/requirements that "they" believe will be to my benefit. 

 

"I wonder if I need some "expert" from inside or outside of government to issue regulations/requirements that "they" believe will be to my benefit."

 

RKACRUISER - WELL SAID.

 

I for one would pay more for Holland America of olde - Before Carnival.

 

PS:  As to the Promenade - The insertion of the Lanai Staterooms on the S Class did spoil the original concept, eliminating most of seating on the deck for other passengers to relax and enjoy.  Sorry, but the other areas still available are just not the same.

[rkacruiser]

35 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

If it wasn't for the 'knuckle heads', the Holland cruise line wouldn't exist.

 

The "knuckle head" that is responsible for preserving Holland America Line is Micky Arison and the Carnival Corporation.  Much "dumping" on Carnival Corporation has occurred since HAL became a part of the Company due to "changes that many of us, including me, really didn't approve".  The reality is, however, if Carnival Corporation with Mr. Arison as its Chairman and CEO, had not acquired HAL, Holland America Line would have joined those other respected guest carrying companies such as North German Lloyd, White Star Line, Swedish American Line, Norwegian American Line, Home Lines, et al.

[3rdGenCunarder]

1 hour ago, rkacruiser said:

 

The "knuckle head" that is responsible for preserving Holland America Line is Micky Arison and the Carnival Corporation.  Much "dumping" on Carnival Corporation has occurred since HAL became a part of the Company due to "changes that many of us, including me, really didn't approve".  The reality is, however, if Carnival Corporation with Mr. Arison as its Chairman and CEO, had not acquired HAL, Holland America Line would have joined those other respected guest carrying companies such as North German Lloyd, White Star Line, Swedish American Line, Norwegian American Line, Home Lines, et al.

 

You could add Cunard to that list if not for Carnival and Mr Arison. If they hadn't bought Cunard, Queen Mary 2 would never have been built (or Lizzy or Vicky). Carnivore may be a bottom-feeder, buying companies when their value was low, but they know how to put money into a line to build it back up again.

 

[Jammu2]

On 4/24/2019 at 1:38 PM, FredT said:

Annnnnd  How much did you pay for your cruise on HAL all those years ago?   I would guess that you paid "almost" the same per day as you are paying now... (And the dollar is worth HOW much more?)  

 

I know it's the same as the airlines.   I have a ticket from New York to San Juan in 1960...   Three hundred dollars round trip.   The price today?  the same... BUT, the seats are narrower, the food non existent, the legroom all gone...  (Sound familiar?)

 

I am sure you "could" find all of those wonderful amenities on a cruise ship today, IF you are willing to pay what you did back then (Adjusted for inflation!) 

 

Just to note, that inflation adjysted RT to San Juan would be $2,576.37 today.

[slidergirl]

On 4/24/2019 at 12:15 PM, The Tsar said:

IMHO - As stated most changes were/are not appreciated.  In someways it is hard to explain, if one has not experienced for themselves.  The entire atmosphere aboard ship(s) is totally different. Most is due to economics and change of culture and respect.

 

I don't know how I missed this little paragraph the first time around.   It sounds like the OP is attributing what he/she believes are unappreciated changes to HAL due to cruising being available to more than the entitled elite.  When I hear the "change of culture and respect" code words, it reminds me of the old farts in the 60s who said Elvis and The Beatles were bad and forced their kids to just listen to Frank Sinatra and Tony Bennett...

[ChinaShrek]

On 4/24/2019 at 5:29 PM, Copper10-8 said:

 

You'd be surprised as to how many nationalities, and from what countries, current HAL crews consist of. The largest group, by far, are still the Indonesians (Housekeeping, Restaurant, Nautical/sailors, boatmen and quartermasters, Technical/engine room), followed by the Filipinos (Beverage, Galley, Guest Services, Security, Technical/engine room) Third are probably the Indians (Galley, Security) with the Dutch (Nautical/Bridge, Technical/engine room, Guest Services, Administration) close behind or just ahead. Then, you have the South Africans (Medical, Art Gallery), followed by up to 40-45 other nationalities

 

I find it interesting that I see very few Americans working on HAL ships.  Why do you think this is so? 

[BJzink]

26 minutes ago, slidergirl said:

 

I don't know how I missed this little paragraph the first time around.   It sounds like the OP is attributing what he/she believes are unappreciated changes to HAL due to cruising being available to more than the entitled elite.  When I hear the "change of culture and respect" code words, it reminds me of the old farts in the 60s who said Elvis and The Beatles were bad and forced their kids to just listen to Frank Sinatra and Tony Bennett...

When I see photos of the Konigsdam,&New Statendam, I frankly don't see anything "Holland" about the décor.  It all looks angular, shiny, & sparkly.  The art is also very modern and non-maritime.  I tend to prefer the elegant décor and art as in palaces, castles, etc. which is still on the smaller, older ships.  

 

[slidergirl]

16 minutes ago, ChinaShrek said:

 

I find it interesting that I see very few Americans working on HAL ships.  Why do you think this is so? 

 

Slave wages, length of each shift, crowded crew conditions...  Kind of like you see few Americans working in the fields, picking produce...

[slidergirl]

10 minutes ago, BJzink said:

When I see photos of the Konigsdam,&New Statendam, I frankly don't see anything "Holland" about the décor.  It all looks angular, shiny, & sparkly.  The art is also very modern and non-maritime.  I tend to prefer the elegant décor and art as in palaces, castles, etc. which is still on the smaller, older ships.  

 

As far as the NS:  I don't know if you are aware, but The Netherlands has a very vibrant music scene.  I learned of some really good new music from athletes I know who competed for NL.  Great music clubs.  We have a solo musician here in town who ended up very popular in NL and does tours there.  So, the music-theme on NS seems to make sense to me as it reflects a Modern Netherlands rather than one we imagine from the old WW2 movies.  Not all of Europe is palaces and castles; if a ship has a decor of a Dutch castle (I visited one on a "spouses" day tour out of Maastricht at a conference), I hope it has the Vomitorium that castle had so those that order that 2nd entree have some place to "relieve themselves. 😉

 

Edited May 1, 2019 by slidergirl

[Oak Hill Cruisers]

We visited the Rotterdam V today in Rotterdam. Had lunch also.

 

We're wondering if we would like to sail on her now, especially with the dedicated smoking room and perhaps unlimited smoking in the other public areas.  Still, it was fascinating to tour this ship.  The yellow and orange leather/fabrics reminded me of the home of the TV series The Brady Bunch. 😉

 

One of our guides was a British lady who was married to a ship's engineer.  She worked several of the shops on this ship -- first name was Amanda.  She was very nice and lamented the loss of this ship to active service.  She also lamented the loss of the Prinsendam.

 

It was also cool to walk the sloping promenade deck -- downhill, level, then uphill.  Amanda also pointed out repairs in the dance floor caused by stiletto heels.

[Despegue]

46 minutes ago, BJzink said:

When I see photos of the Konigsdam,&New Statendam, I frankly don't see anything "Holland" about the décor.  It all looks angular, shiny, & sparkly.  The art is also very modern and non-maritime.  I tend to prefer the elegant décor and art as in palaces, castles, etc. which is still on the smaller, older ships.  

 

Castles? palaces?

you do realize that these are museums and show how people used to live hundreds of years ago?

European design , including Dutch is actually quite a lot more modern than the still classic interiours of the Pinnacle vessels. 

Ships have traditionally been on the forefront of modern design by the way, even Cunard’s Queen liners were deemed very modern  in terms of interiour design  when they were launched.

 

[Copper10-8]

1 hour ago, ChinaShrek said:

 

I find it interesting that I see very few Americans working on HAL ships.  Why do you think this is so? 

 

You'll find American citizens mostly in the cruise staff, in entertainment (cast members, sound & lightning techies, musicians, etc.) and in Club HAL working with the kiddies, some environmental and some security officers, some (still) medical (doctors and nurses) folks, some shoppies, some fitness instructors, some hairdressers, and some shorex staff. Why are there not that many, compared to other nationalities? Has to do with working hours and pay, and the fact that foreign flagged cruise lines do not have to operate under U.S. labor laws

[BJzink]

13 minutes ago, Despegue said:

Castles? palaces?

you do realize that these are museums and show how people used to live hundreds of years ago?

European design , including Dutch is actually quite a lot more modern than the still classic interiours of the Pinnacle vessels. 

Ships have traditionally been on the forefront of modern design by the way, even Cunard’s Queen liners were deemed very modern  in terms of interiour design  when they were launched.

 

And, isn't it wonderful that there is still some choice of cruise lines/ships so that all of us can choose a cruise line with ships that are comfortable for each.   

[Despegue]

40 minutes ago, BJzink said:

And, isn't it wonderful that there is still some choice of cruise lines/ships so that all of us can choose a cruise line with ships that are comfortable for each.   

And that are indeed wise words.

Bless you and goodnight.

[Spender Nui]

I may have missed it if already mentioned  but don't forget duty free  drink prices.

[rkacruiser]

21 hours ago, Spender Nui said:

I may have missed it if already mentioned  but don't forget duty free  drink prices.

 

Rotterdam V in 1970:  draft Heineken Beer--inexpensive!  I recall 10 cents a glass.

[Copper10-8]

27 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:

 

Rotterdam V in 1970:  draft Heineken Beer--inexpensive!  I recall 10 cents a glass.

 

That's a while back! 

[rkacruiser]

11 minutes ago, Copper10-8 said:

 

That's a while back! 

 

No kidding!  Lots of water has passed under my keel since that first Rotterdam V cruise.  But, that cruise got me "hooked".  A Westerdam sailing in July and the Volendam's Christmas/New Year's Cruise in December are booked followed by a new "adventure" on MSC Meraviglia in Yacht Class after disembarking Volendam on January 5th.

 

The Heineken Beer aboard a HAL ship is just as good as it was in 1970.  But, for some reason, if its a draft beer, it just tastes better (and sometimes such drafts are available.)

[Oak Hill Cruisers]

We noticed, during our visit to the Rotterdam V museum ship, that the teak deck chairs are exactly the same ones we've seen on the current Rotterdam & Amsterdam.

 

Of course, most of these beautiful (and comfortable) chairs are now for the lanai staterooms.  Don't like those new plastic & aluminum lounge chairs we're seeing.