2 float planes crash in the water in Ketchikan

[Katwoman007]

17 minutes ago, kennicott said:

ADS-B is a relatively new GPS-based technology pioneered in Alaska.

Very interesting article. 

I still wonder why Princess is signing people up for these tours while the investigation is still ongoing and Taquan Air being involved. I took a look and some bookings have been unbooked (based on one having a wait list and that waitlist is no more as well as a few seats showing open and a new tour has been added. Our ship will be in Ketchikan on 5/29. 

[willde]

 

https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2017/march/23/ads-b-installations-what-you-need-to-know-about-ads-b-in

Another perspective on ADS-B, with excerpt from the article:

 

While the rest of the world exclusively uses ADS-B In (on 1090 MHz) for traffic, the United States created a second ADS-B network on 978 MHz (UAT), which includes both traffic (TIS-B) and weather (FIS-B) data streaming into the cockpit from ground stations. 

…

However, there is a limitation to only receiving ADS-B on 978 MHz—if you are only listening on 978 MHz, you won’t receive traffic information directly from aircraft transmitting on 1090 MHz. To address this limitation, the ADS-B ground stations do the translation for you and “rebroadcast” the data on both frequencies (ADS-R). The ground stations also broadcast traffic that air traffic control gets from non-ADS-B sources (such as aircraft with only Mode C/S transponders), which is very important at the moment.

 

As long as you are within range of a ground station, you don’t have to worry about which frequency your system receives on. However, if you are out of range of a ground station, you will only see ADS-B-equipped aircraft broadcasting their positions on frequencies you receive directly. This is why higher-end ADS-B systems transmit on 1090 MHz, but receive on both978 MHz and 1090 MHz. This way, you are guaranteed to at least see all local ADS-B-equipped traffic, regardless of the frequency they are using.

 

Would be interesting to know:

• what specific ADS-B equipment was in each aircraft
• whether either was dependent upon ground stations for traffic information
• whether ground stations exist in the accident area
• what limitations the terrain might have created

 

Edited May 17, 2019 by willde

[MicCanberra]

2 hours ago, kennicott said:

New release-----Both aircraft had close to the state of the art avionics: https://www.alaskapublic.org/2019/05/15/ketchikan-planes-in-mid-air-crash-both-had-equipment-designed-to-help-avert-collisions-what-went-wrong/

Wow.

[mapleleaves]

Out of respect  ..... why not hold off on the speculation and just wait another week for the preliminary report ?

[kennicott]

1 hour ago, willde said:

Would be interesting to know:

• what specific ADS-B equipment was in each aircraft
• whether either was dependent upon ground stations for traffic information
• whether ground stations exist in the accident area
• what limitations the terrain might have created

 

   I agree, enough to give one a migraine. Going to be a lot said and learned before this is all over. Question many have is which system do you go with, the GPS based or the Transponder based, particularly if you are required to have the more sophisticated transponders due to the high density areas and airports you operate into, which require them. I notice the proposed regulations for next year requiring ADS-B exempts aircraft which are required to have transponders. That doesn't seem to make much sense since having a transponder isn't going to do you any good around ADS-B equipped airplanes. I must be missing something here.

 

Anyway, I'm sure glad I'm not in the Air Taxi game anymore, looking at the prices of this stuff is scary.     

[kennicott]

49 minutes ago, mapleleaves said:

Out of respect  ..... why not hold off on the speculation and just wait another week for the preliminary report ?

Probably,a good question for this thread, where not all are interested in the nitty-gritty.

 

However, not a good one for the aviation community at large. You see, years ago the NTSB used to not release information at all about an accident investigation until the "Blue Cover" report was ready for distribution. Due to learning the hard way that holding onto crucial bits of safety related information was a mistake, they changed and now make operators aware of certain safety matters as soon as the NTSB becomes aware of such, as this prevents more accidents. So they piecemeal the info out, much as they are doing here right now. I'm not aware of a so called preliminary report other than these early releases and the "summary report" just before the final. But then, maybe they do dub some of this "preliminary reports".  

 

As one with a lifetime in the airplane game though and one who has almost 700 days sailing and taken countless shore excursions, I'm all ears and really appreciate any early insight I can get into what is going on. The reason I'm still in one piece after 12 years of pilot in command is that I didn't assume and paid attention to what others learned.

[willde]

58 minutes ago, mapleleaves said:

 ..... why not hold off on the speculation and just wait another week for the preliminary report ?

 

2 hours ago, Katwoman007 said:

I still wonder why Princess is signing people up for these tours while the investigation is still ongoing and Taquan Air being involved.

 

Speculation is inevitable, though the line between speculation and assumption is often blurred.

[MicCanberra]

I am not sure the investigators are doing any speculating at all.

[SempreMare]

On 5/17/2019 at 3:53 PM, mapleleaves said:

Out of respect  ..... why not hold off on the speculation and just wait another week for the preliminary report ?

No one is being disrespectful.   This accident must be analyzed fully, and the insights of people outside of the NTSB specialist community can help solve the puzzle and help others make informed decisions.

[poidog81]

Second crash by Taquan Air. I will not be stepping foot on one of their planes and cancelling our excursion today. I could caulk up the first to a freak accident, two crashes two weeks apart... no thanks. 

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/alaska-small-plane-crash-kills-2-a-week-after-a-deadly-mid-air-collision-involving-the-same-carrier/

[willde]

6 hours ago, poidog81 said:

Second crash by Taquan Air. I will not be stepping foot on one of their planes and cancelling our excursion today. I could caulk up the first to a freak accident, two crashes two weeks apart... no thanks. 

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/alaska-small-plane-crash-kills-2-a-week-after-a-deadly-mid-air-collision-involving-the-same-carrier/

 

An understandable response to a very tragic and unusual occurrence. 

It will be interesting to hear what comes out of the investigations, but worth highlighting the NTSB statement, which is appropriate:

 

"It is unusual for an operator to have two accidents in a short time but that alone does not infer there is a safety issue with the company, their pilots or type of aircraft ... they are two separate accidents and that's the way that they'll be investigated: as separate accidents."

Edited May 21, 2019 by willde

[Northern Aurora]

The Alaska Daily News website is now reporting that Taquan has suspended all operations.  It was previously reported that they were suspending cruise contracted flights, but were continuing their non-cruise operations.

[Northern Aurora]

Well -- I have to correct my own post (above).  Other Alaskans would know which newspaper I was referencing, but the correct name is the Anchorage Daily News (www.adn.com).  The original newspaper name was the Anchorage Daily News, then for several years it was the Alaska Dispatch, and now the name has returned to the original.  

[Katwoman007]

2 hours ago, Northern Aurora said:

The Alaska Daily News website is now reporting that Taquan has suspended all operations.  It was previously reported that they were suspending cruise contracted flights, but were continuing their non-cruise operations.

This is good to know. I had been researching because I could still book flights with them through Princess for next week. I guess originally they were pausing just Princess tours until 5/24 and we are in port 5/29. I have a tour booked through Island Wings and while I felt safer with them I honestly told my husband I am more worried about that other company in the air at the same time. I understand accidents happen, but same company is alarming. 😞 I am just so sad this has happened, again. 

[cruisingnewtoit]

2 minutes ago, Katwoman007 said:

This is good to know. I had been researching because I could still book flights with them through Princess for next week. I guess originally they were pausing just Princess tours until 5/24 and we are in port 5/29. I have a tour booked through Island Wings and while I felt safer with them I honestly told my husband I am more worried about that other company in the air at the same time. I understand accidents happen, but same company is alarming. 😞 I am just so sad this has happened, again. 

I am thinking about booking with island Wings for our 2020 AK trip. How far in advance did you book with them? Are you taking a float plane hoping to see bears? I'm worried even when my DH & I are going in mid June is still to early for bears.

 

Must admit I'm worried about doing this excursion.

[Katwoman007]

3 minutes ago, cruisingnewtoit said:

I am thinking about booking with island Wings for our 2020 AK trip. How far in advance did you book with them? Are you taking a float plane hoping to see bears? I'm worried even when my DH & I are going in mid June is still to early for bears.

 

Must admit I'm worried about doing this excursion.

We booked on 4/4/19 for 5/29. We are doing the Fjords. I do not think bears are as populated right now at the end of May. I think they are just starting to come out, but more so when the salmon start up. We had everything else booked for our stops and finally decided to do this kind of last minute. We are a bit hesitant, but accidents happen all the time. It is a hard choice with kids at home. We had a 2 week prior cancellation timeline and we pretty much missed it with the accident last week. I just feel they would be extra cautious. 

[cruisingnewtoit]

8 minutes ago, Katwoman007 said:

We booked on 4/4/19 for 5/29. We are doing the Fjords. I do not think bears are as populated right now at the end of May. I think they are just starting to come out, but more so when the salmon start up. We had everything else booked for our stops and finally decided to do this kind of last minute. We are a bit hesitant, but accidents happen all the time. It is a hard choice with kids at home. We had a 2 week prior cancellation timeline and we pretty much missed it with the accident last week. I just feel they would be extra cautious. 

Thank you for the info

 

Have a fantastic trip. On other threads I have read good things about Island Wings. 

 

2020 will be our 2nd trip to AK & we are going back for the excursions including the float plane & helicopter tour. I'm not sure what I'm going to do. 

 

[PRPLE]

Related?  Taquan Air had another accident this time killing the pilot and passanger (source: https://www.foxnews.com/us/two-dead-in-second-floatplane-crash-involving-taquan-air-officials-say.amp)

[kennicott]

 

I wouldn't be too harsh on Taquan Air, they are a quite large Air Taxi and unquestionably have had a stretch of bad luck.  Read post  #111 on this thread.  They have a lot of excellent pilots too and you can bet the entire staff is extremely depressed and despondent right now, truth be known, that is why they decided to shut her down. If and when they open their doors again it could be decades before they have another ding-up. I flew the Bush on the coast of Alaska and in the interior for 12 years without putting a scratch, hardly, on an airplane. My younger brother has been at it now for 56 years and hasn't wrecked one yet. 

 

 

 

Even Pacific Wings has experienced strife. Every morning I drive by what remains of their Beaver N 616 W which is in the scrap bone yard at lake Spenard. That was a cruise line excursion flight as well.  

 

 

https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=156233

[karatemom2]

Well this latest accident hits very close to home - I just discovered from the news reports that the young epidemiologist on the flight that crashed yesterday is from our area - a small town just next to ours here in Southern California. It is truly tragic. She was a dedicated young lady out there doing good things in the world - my  heart is broken for her family as well as the family of the pilot who lost his life.

Edited May 21, 2019 by karatemom2

[willde]

35 minutes ago, PRPLE said:

Related?  Taquan Air had another accident this time killing the pilot and passanger (source: https://www.foxnews.com/us/two-dead-in-second-floatplane-crash-involving-taquan-air-officials-say.amp)

 

Your link references the same accident as Post #110 earlier today. 

Related to the accident of original topic?  Same operator, so yes, technically. 

Related practically?  Not very likely.  Different type of flight, different phase of flight, different aircraft type (in regards to Taquan operations), almost certainly different pilot.

 

This link also has mis-information stating that Taquan Air operated both the aircraft which collided last week.  🧐

 

Edited May 21, 2019 by willde

[cruises42]

How do you find out what company is running the excursions? I have never seen it listed in the excursion description.

[ultramax12]

5 hours ago, Katwoman007 said:

This is good to know. I had been researching because I could still book flights with them through Princess for next week. I guess originally they were pausing just Princess tours until 5/24 and we are in port 5/29. I have a tour booked through Island Wings and while I felt safer with them I honestly told my husband I am more worried about that other company in the air at the same time. I understand accidents happen, but same company is alarming. 😞 I am just so sad this has happened, again. 

We are with Island Wings also on 5/29, who is your pilot?

 

[Katwoman007]

48 minutes ago, ultramax12 said:

We are with Island Wings also on 5/29, who is your pilot?

 

Adam at 10am 🙂

[Katwoman007]

1 hour ago, cruises42 said:

How do you find out what company is running the excursions? I have never seen it listed in the excursion description.

I honestly do not know. I only knew that Taquan Air was doing Princess Tours because of the news. Sometimes you can find the same excursions online and they tell you to book through the cruise line and tell you what to look for. I am taking a small whale watching photo tour because someone said that a certain company was good and they service the ships. So I went looking and sure enough it was correct and I rebooked to that one. I know for horseback riding in one port only has one stable, and you can book direct or through the ship. Same photos and information.