Royal Caribbean is committing $1 million to Dorian disaster relief

[mayleeman]

2 minutes ago, Baowen said:

 

It's incredible that a story about donating to help those in need has ended in such anger towards the company.

 

The hostile tone of some posts make it seem that those posters believe RC has to be punished, like Dorian was RC's fault. Incredible, indeed.

[Retired LEO]

The Mariner is stopping at Grand Bahama Island on Saturday morning to assist with disaster relief and to pick up evacuees and those needing immediate medical attention will be transported to Nassau hospitals.

[tullers]

On 9/3/2019 at 6:58 PM, fletch1027 said:

 

My comment was meant to be tongue in cheek, but there is a difference between taking a million out of the net profit as opposed to raising prices even more to "cover" a million dollar donation...  

Well, fletch, I don't think you have too much to worry about.  In 2018 Royal Caribbean Cruise Line alone carried 6,084,201 passengers.  Passenger growth was projected to grow by at least 5% so in the event that RCL passes along a fare increase, it will amount to about $0.16 per person. 

 

Instead, you might want to worry about how the government of the Bahamas is going to recoup the costs: higher port fees, higher taxes on the tourist trade etc.

 

But you hold on to your $0.16 if it's that important to you.

[tullers]

On 9/3/2019 at 8:10 PM, mayleeman said:

Whether RC would raise prices to cover it or not, it is axiomatic that any money it gives will reduce net profits. If a price rise is kept, profits would be up. If that amount is donated, profits go down.

 

 

Actually, you're wrong - it is not "axiomatic".  These donations actually come from funds that have already been set aside for charitable giving.  Every major corporation has similar funds which are planned for years in advance.  This $1M donation will have zero effect on the bottom line but it provides positive PR as no cost.

 

[tullers]

On 9/5/2019 at 2:35 AM, ReneeFLL said:

 

 

 

Would it really kill RC to actually DONATE  and take a loss for it? When we donate it's a loss for us. No way for us to pass on that loss to someone else so why does RC have to pass it on to us? I don't really see it as a donation when they are getting it back from the customers.

 

Don't bother telling me they're in the business of making money, yada, yada, yada.

Exactly how much is this "costing" you or any other passenger?  Unless you're unemployed and without any income you also "get it back" from your employer/investments/pension etc.

Ugh, people are always looking for something to ***** about.

[mayleeman]

@tullers The issue was whether RC would raise prices to cover the donation  which someone posted as if that would mean RC wasn't parting with anything. My point was if they raised prices and did not donate, they would have $1 million more in profit.

 

If they set money aside years ago, that is still cash that could have gone to profit but went to the reserve instead (thanks for pointing that out--their prep for these things must be extraordinary). It doesn't matter if it is this year, or if they set it aside years ago, or in later years. Whenever it occurred, that year's profits was down (excluding tax implications)

 

Any money donated has to come from cash on hand or cash coming in. If spent, profits down.

[tullers]

22 hours ago, Tree_skier said:

All this talk about it all being a tax write off seems a little unlikely.  Someone can correct me but Royal doesn’t pay Corp income tax in the US I suspect. This is why they are incorporated in Liberia and their ships are registered in the Bahamas. 

Wrong, they are incorporated in Florida, not Liberia.  You are confusing ships registry (which is not limited to Liberia) with incorporation - not the same thing.  The parent company is traded on the NYSE as a domestic entity.

[Pratique]

14 minutes ago, tullers said:

Wrong, they are incorporated in Florida, not Liberia.  You are confusing ships registry (which is not limited to Liberia) with incorporation - not the same thing.  The parent company is traded on the NYSE as a domestic entity.

According to their SEC filings (Form 10-K), parent company "Royal Caribbean Cruises Ltd., was incorporated on July 23, 1985 in the Republic of Liberia under the Business Corporation Act of Liberia."

 

As far as U.S. taxation: "We believe that most of our income and the income of our ship-owning subsidiaries is derived from or incidental to the international operation of a ship or ships and, therefore, is exempt from taxation under Section 883."

 

FWIW.

[DirtyDawg]

$1M out of net profit last year of $1,811 million which is .055% of last year's net profit.

That's like the average American donating around $20 bucks.

 

C'mon cruisers if RCL can donate, you can afford $20 bucks too!

 

And your tax deduction will be way bigger than RCL's! (see page 116 of their 10K)

 

Edited September 6, 2019 by DirtyDawg

[ReneeFLL]

On 9/5/2019 at 2:35 AM, ReneeFLL said:

Would it really kill RC to actually DONATE  and take a loss for it? When we donate it's a loss for us. No way for us to pass on that loss to someone else so why does RC have to pass it on to us? I don't really see it as a donation when they are getting it back from the customers.

 

Don't bother telling me they're in the business of making money, yada, yada, yada.

 

23 hours ago, AlanF65 said:

If you itemize in the US it reduces your tax burden on  1040A

Thanks we are aware that donations are tax deductible. What I was getting at was if we donate $xxx amount we are out of pocket that money -any tax deductions. If RC would do the same and not raise prices to cover it then they would be out of the money also -any deductions. So I don't think it would really kill them to be out of some money themselves instead of sticking it to others and trying to make themselves look good all the while doing it. I know a lot of others will disagree with me and that's your opinion just like this is mine. 

Edited September 6, 2019 by ReneeFLL

[Tree_skier]

1 hour ago, tullers said:

Wrong, they are incorporated in Florida, not Liberia.  You are confusing ships registry (which is not limited to Liberia) with incorporation - not the same thing.  The parent company is traded on the NYSE as a domestic entity.

 

1 hour ago, Pratique said:

According to their SEC filings (Form 10-K), parent company "Royal Caribbean Cruises Ltd., was incorporated on July 23, 1985 in the Republic of Liberia under the Business Corporation Act of Liberia."

 

As far as U.S. taxation: "We believe that most of our income and the income of our ship-owning subsidiaries is derived from or incidental to the international operation of a ship or ships and, therefore, is exempt from taxation under Section 883."

 

FWIW.

 

Thanks, I was sure I had read that they were exempt from paying taxes in the US somewhere.  So the donation has nothing to do with Tax write offs, which was my point.  Now I'm not suggesting that their motive is some altruistic good.  It's good PR and the end of the day that is good for business but I"m glad they are doing it.  The devastation the Bahamas has suffered is unreal!

[Tree_skier]

9 minutes ago, ReneeFLL said:

 

Thanks we are aware that donations are tax deductible. What I was getting at was if we donate $xxx amount we are out of pocket that money -any tax deductions. If RC would do the same and not raise prices to cover it then they would be out of the money also -any deductions. So I don't think it would really kill them to be out of some money themselves instead of sticking it to others and trying to make themselves look good all the while doing it. I know a lot of others will disagree with me and that's your opinion just like this is mine. 

So why do you think they'll raise prices? Price is determined by demand.  Demand is strong... They'll charge as much as they can to maximize profit for shareholders.  Simple microeconomics will determine all of this.

Edited September 6, 2019 by Tree_skier

[jagsfan]

On 9/5/2019 at 2:35 AM, ReneeFLL said:

 

 

 

Would it really kill RC to actually DONATE  and take a loss for it? When we donate it's a loss for us. No way for us to pass on that loss to someone else so why does RC have to pass it on to us? I don't really see it as a donation when they are getting it back from the customers.

 

Don't bother telling me they're in the business of making money, yada, yada, yada.

I’m curious about how you know RCI isn’t “DONATE”ing. 

You are so hostile toward the corporation you must have inside information that proves RCI isn’t spending any money to help the people of the Bahamas. 

[AlanF65]

18 minutes ago, ReneeFLL said:

 

Thanks we are aware that donations are tax deductible. What I was getting at was if we donate $xxx amount we are out of pocket that money -any tax deductions. If RC would do the same and not raise prices to cover it then they would be out of the money also -any deductions. So I don't think it would really kill them to be out of some money themselves instead of sticking it to others and trying to make themselves look good all the while doing it. I know a lot of others will disagree with me and that's your opinion just like this is mine. 

 

It comes out of their income stream, not US tax dollars, by taking it out of the income stream it comes out of money that could go to the shareholders.

 

Beyond wanting to help they have a much larger vested interest, they can't send ships full of tourists to a country that can't accommodate the tourists so everyone that makes money taking tourists to the Bahamas has a vested interest in getting the country back on its feet so their own revenue stream can continue. It may cost less for them to give whatever amount their final gift and services and supplies amounts to than not be able to sail into the Bahamas and have reduced revenues in that region or not have the ability to offer some ports.

 

Either way, I wanted to help people in need so having RCI match donations was a good path to help people.

 

 

 

[Tree_skier]

6 minutes ago, jagsfan said:

I’m curious about how you know RCI isn’t “DONATE”ing. 

You are so hostile toward the corporation you must have inside information that proves RCI isn’t spending any money to help the people of the Bahamas. 

 

This has been an inexplicable thread to me.  They donate a a million bucks to people in need and they're getting slagged.  We don't even know that the million is going to be the end of their aid.  Ships have brought over supplies and meals have been provided.  Some peoples hostility is completely unreal.

Edited September 6, 2019 by Tree_skier

[Pratique]

16 minutes ago, Tree_skier said:

Thanks, I was sure I had read that they were exempt from paying taxes in the US somewhere.  So the donation has nothing to do with Tax write offs, which was my point.  Now I'm not suggesting that their motive is some altruistic good.  It's good PR and the end of the day that is good for business but I"m glad they are doing it.  The devastation the Bahamas has suffered is unreal!

It's also good for business because Royal has many cruises to the Bahamas as well as an important shipyard there, and the Bahamas caters heavily to tourism, so it's mutually beneficial to help them out. But it's also the right thing to do regardless. Royal has a long history there. Some friends of mine were asking whether the cruise lines were going to provide assistance just as these announcements were coming out. Many people associate the Bahamas with the cruise industry and it was the first thing that came to their mind this week - what are the cruise lines going to do to help.

[John&LaLa]

20 hours ago, AlanF65 said:

Nope I looked my line 8  is from schedule "A" and my charitable contributions are in schedule "A". My " schedule A" is more than the standard deduction. 

 

Retired

 

No income

No mortgage 

No Schedule A

 

Priceless

[John&LaLa]

18 hours ago, mayleeman said:

 

The PADF site linked from RC's page says they are not accepting physical donations at this time.

 

For people interested in donating, PADF claims 93% goes to programs, 6% to development (fundraising, I infer), and 1% to management. 

 

Royal Caribbean says it will match donations up to $500,000. The link on its main page takes you to the PADF page, where you can do it by credit card.

 

Just curious, does this $500K, or the Donations by us count towards the promised 1 million, or is this extra?

 

Does the 1 million include value of both cash, equipment, meals, supplies, and transportation from Freeport to Nassau?

 

Mariner is collecting cash onboard today

[Pratique]

46 minutes ago, ReneeFLL said:

Thanks we are aware that donations are tax deductible. What I was getting at was if we donate $xxx amount we are out of pocket that money -any tax deductions. If RC would do the same and not raise prices to cover it then they would be out of the money also -any deductions. So I don't think it would really kill them to be out of some money themselves instead of sticking it to others and trying to make themselves look good all the while doing it. I know a lot of others will disagree with me and that's your opinion just like this is mine. 

I hear what you are saying, but as been speculated elsewhere Royal sets their prices as high as the market will bear. As long as there is high demand for cruises the prices will go up to the point where demand levels out or drops off. So they aren't raising prices to cover the donations, they are raising prices because they can regardless. And if that's true, then they are out of the money as you suggest. Also, since they don't pay much U.S. income tax anyway (as far as I know, they only pay tax on income derived from non-ship operations, such as airfares and shore excursions), their tax deduction probably isn't even a factor.

[MandyMooToo]

5 minutes ago, John&LaLa said:

 

Just curious, does this $500K, or the Donations by us count towards the promised 1 million, or is this extra?

 

Does the 1 million include value of both cash, equipment, meals, supplies, and transportation from Freeport to Nassau?

 

Mariner is collecting cash onboard today

 

As far as the $500 thousand in matching funds that was supposed to be in addition to the $1 million dollars.  I am not sure if the meals/equipment/supplies, etc. are included in the initial million though.

[Pratique]

8 minutes ago, MandyMooToo said:

 

As far as the $500 thousand in matching funds that was supposed to be in addition to the $1 million dollars.  I am not sure if the meals/equipment/supplies, etc. are included in the initial million though.

Their press release said that they are "committing $1 million to Dorian disaster relief," so it's an open question of whether or not the meals etc. are included in that total or if the $1 million is on top of the other donations. From reading it carefully, I think the $1 million includes all donations they are making, cash or otherwise, but that's just my speculation.

Edited September 6, 2019 by Pratique

[Cruiser_1977]

Not sure if this helps answer any of the questions regarding specifics of the donation. For those with questions regarding income tax, financial reporting, etc., there is a website where they publish their filings (since they are publicly traded in the US). https://www.rclinvestor.com/

[nelblu]

Presently on Anthem, and got request in stateroom for contribution to be charged to you folio.

[mayleeman]

@John&LaLa Someone else answered the question of whether the up-to-$500K match is in addition to the RC pledge of $1 million. It is.

 

As to how their donations are broken down, I think $1 million represents the total pledge of RC's stuff altogether--food, supplies, medical supplies, money, etc. But I see no way that all the things RC is doing could be a mere million. I suspect they are not accounting precisely with plans to cut off aid when the counter goes "Ding!" at 1 million. 

 

There are other things, like repatriating some Bahamians and evacuating others to medical facilities, that cannot be accurately counted.

 

Anyone griping that RC needs to suffer more needs a lot of valium. I hope any such people decide to donate a lot of money!

 

If everyone just reading the posts in the RC forum in CC would donate $100 (cost of one excursion to beach; less than the beverage package + grats for 2 people for 1 day).... 

[ReneeFLL]

19 hours ago, mayleeman said:

 

The hostile tone of some posts make it seem that those posters believe RC has to be punished, like Dorian was RC's fault. Incredible, indeed.

Hostile??? Why would you ASSUME this ridiculous thought? Thanks anyway, I needed a good laugh today. 😁 Just because someone is pointing something out that may bust someone's bubble about how great RC is doesn't mean we are hostile or hate them. Simply pointing things out. 

 

19 hours ago, mayleeman said:

 

The hostile tone of some posts make it seem that those posters believe RC has to be punished, like Dorian was RC's fault. Incredible, indeed.

Punished??? 😁 See comment above. Same thing applies.

 

3 hours ago, Pratique said:

According to their SEC filings (Form 10-K), parent company "Royal Caribbean Cruises Ltd., was incorporated on July 23, 1985 in the Republic of Liberia under the Business Corporation Act of Liberia."

 

As far as U.S. taxation: "We believe that most of our income and the income of our ship-owning subsidiaries is derived from or incidental to the international operation of a ship or ships and, therefore, is exempt from taxation under Section 883."

 

FWIW.

Thanks for the info. I know it's legal, but just another way RC tries to get out of paying taxes to the US where a lot of their customers are from. By not paying these taxes it's just another way that RC takes from us. I'm just saying. 🤨

Edited September 6, 2019 by ReneeFLL