EZ-Air and US Ports Disaster

[memoak]

35 minutes ago, Pam in CA said:

It’s not the ship but the passenger so it’s wherever YOU initially get on the ship, whether it’s your scheduled embarkation port or the next port or the next. 
 

Thats why passengers are warned to not miss the ship in any Hawaiian port or plan to fly to the next island and re-embark. It’s a violation of the PVSA and each passenger is fined $300 in addition to any other travel charges. The ship has your credit card info and will charge you the violation. Same for Alaska. 

Please explain Princess cruises to Hawaii all the time from Vancouver. Once you embark what law would fine you for missing the ship once in the islands ?

[Shmoo here]

5 minutes ago, memoak said:

Please explain Princess cruises to Hawaii all the time from Vancouver. Once you embark what law would fine you for missing the ship once in the islands ?

Since the embarkation port is non-US, a cruise from Vancouver to Honolulu does not fall under the PVSA purvue.

 

But, if you miss the ship in Vancouver, and the first port of call is, say Hilo, you can't fly there, board, and finish the cruise in Honolulu, since now your cruise is Hilo to Honolulu (both US ports), with no distant foreign port visited.

Edited October 3, 2019 by Shmoo here

[epixx]

5 hours ago, Cruise Junky said:

the ship didn't go to Vancouver, it went to Victoria and then back to Seattle.  Hence turning her Seattle return into a one way.  She could of however got to the next US port and disembarked in Victoria.  This should have been presented as an option to her.

 

I believe it was not "presented as an option to her" because she did not have advance approval to disembark in Victoria, as would have been required.

 

Several years ago we went on a round trip Alaska cruise from Seattle, and our only option was to fly to Seattle from the East Coast on the day of embarkation.  Knowing the potential consequences of missing embarkation, I requested and received advance written permission from the cruise line to disembark in Victoria so that we could catch up to the cruise at the next US port if needed.  Fortunately we made it on time for embarkation in Seattle, but I think the OP would be on the ship now if she had also planned in advance.

 

 

[epixx]

On 10/1/2019 at 5:42 PM, Lambchp22002 said:

Little known fact - if you take a cruise on Princess and you leave out of a US Port and intend to hit a few other ports in the US, and if your plane is delayed, even if you book it through Princess in advance as well as transfer to the ship - there is a maratime law on the books from 1886 that prevents them from boarding you on a different port.  So your cruise is TOAST.

 

We booked the Sept 29 cruise out of Seattle along the Oregon and California coast then back up to Victoria BC and back to Seattle.  Mechanical problems on Delta caused us to arrive at the luggage claim at 3:35pm.  Boat was set to sail at 4pm.  I'd been on the phone with them all day, but it didn't matter.  They had me call again only to tell  me that I should file insurance and there was absolutely nothing they could do to help us.  Our cruise was over.

Thank God we have insurance.  Sure didn't feel like Princess had any customer service at all. They didn't even seem sympathetic.  

I can find it in the paperwork or fine print - its a corner case most of the time for them - but if you fit the criteria, fly in the day before.  

Shari

who is sitting at home not on her cruise with her husband...

Shari:  The information is clear and readily available on the Princess website, not hidden in any way.  Did you read the "Late Arrival Protection" section?  It clearly states that they must consider the PVSA:

 

"Princess will work with the airlines to find a reasonable alternative to provide flights to the next appropriate* port at no additional air cost to the guest.

Factors taken into account in determining the appropriateness of a port of call include, but are not limited to:

• visas and other legal documentation that may be required
• application of the Passenger Services Act to the new itinerary
• airport/port infrastructure
• comparability of cost, flight connections, and travel time required (note, any refund due on the unused air ticket must be used to offset the cost of the new air ticket) 
• where in the original itinerary this port is located"

 

[fredflint]

I have done same days but usually arrive early in morning and know of 2-3 flights that are alternatives.   We did cruise air into i think Barcelona one time the flight arrived at about 9:30 AM but it was a TA and there was a stop the next day as a backup.

 

For me I always have a plan A-B and C

[npcl]

1 hour ago, Pam in CA said:

It’s not the ship but the passenger so it’s wherever YOU initially get on the ship, whether it’s your scheduled embarkation port or the next port or the next. 
 

Thats why passengers are warned to not miss the ship in any Hawaiian port or plan to fly to the next island and re-embark. It’s a violation of the PVSA and each passenger is fined $300 in addition to any other travel charges. The ship has your credit card info and will charge you the violation. Same for Alaska. 

If I recall correctly it is the cruise line, not the passenger that is fined, though the cruise line may pass it on to the passenger.  More than the fine it becomes a black mark on the cruise lines record with CBP.

[Shmoo here]

1 minute ago, npcl said:

If I recall correctly it is the cruise line, not the passenger that is fined, though the cruise line may pass it on to the passenger.  More than the fine it becomes a black mark on the cruise lines record with CBP.

Correct.

[Pam in CA]

3 hours ago, npcl said:

If I recall correctly it is the cruise line, not the passenger that is fined, though the cruise line may pass it on to the passenger.  More than the fine it becomes a black mark on the cruise lines record with CBP.

Yes, the cruise line is fined but the effect is the same since the fine is passed on to the passenger. 

[HappyCruiserettu]

7 hours ago, Pam in CA said:

It’s not the ship but the passenger so it’s wherever YOU initially get on the ship, whether it’s your scheduled embarkation port or the next port or the next. 
 

Thats why passengers are warned to not miss the ship in any Hawaiian port or plan to fly to the next island and re-embark. It’s a violation of the PVSA and each passenger is fined $300 in addition to any other travel charges. The ship has your credit card info and will charge you the violation. Same for Alaska. 

So, if I am on the Grand SF-Hawaii rt, and I get to Hilo on Saturday AM, fly immediately to Honolulu and spend the night, then re-board the ship in Honolulu on Sunday evening to continue my trip, that is a violation? I did not know that. I thought I was fairly up on the PVSA. Apparently not!

[HappyCruiserettu]

7 hours ago, Pam in CA said:

It’s not the ship but the passenger so it’s wherever YOU initially get on the ship, whether it’s your scheduled embarkation port or the next port or the next. 
 

Thats why passengers are warned to not miss the ship in any Hawaiian port or plan to fly to the next island and re-embark. It’s a violation of the PVSA and each passenger is fined $300 in addition to any other travel charges. The ship has your credit card info and will charge you the violation. Same for Alaska. 

So, if I am on the Grand SF-Hawaii rt, and I get to Hilo on Saturday AM, fly immediately to Honolulu and spend the night, then re-board the ship in Honolulu on Sunday evening to continue my trip, that is a violation? I did not know that. I thought I was fairly up on the PVSA. Apparently not!

 

9 hours ago, Pam in CA said:

It's the Passenger Vessel Services Act of 1889. It was implemented to protect US shipping and still does today.

 

It affects cruise passengers, regardless of nationality. 

 

It applies only to passengers both initially embarking and finally disembarking at US ports no matter how long the cruise or the number of B2Bs.

 

In a nutshell:

 

Embark and disembark at the SAME US port: this is called a "closed loop" and the ship, and passenger, must go to a NEAR foreign port. "Near" is Canada, Mexico, Central America and the Caribbean.

 

Embark at one US port and disembark at another US port: the ship, and passenger, must go to a FAR foreign port. The closest "far" foreign ports are South America or the ABC Islands. 

 

Examples: a round trip cruise from Los Angeles to Hawaii stops in Ensenada, Mexico. That's a closed loop cruise.

 

A cruise from LA to Ft. Lauderdale stops in Colombia, South America. This is not a closed loop cruise unless you stayed on the ship and sailed back to LA. 

 

You can cruise from SEA to YVR, board a different ship even the same day and sail to LA legally.

 

If you initially board or disembark in Vancouver, the PVSA doesn't apply. It's only US ports.

There may be huge amount of US shipping today, but there is virtually no US passenger ships. )Pride of America and river cruise ships only. Who are they protecting?.

[skynight]

14 hours ago, aprilsp88 said:

Thanks OP for the reminder. Hope everything worked out for you!

 

Would you please explain? If my panama canal cruise embark in FLL and disembark in LA, if I missed FLL, will I be able to embark in columbia (catergena)?

In your example if you miss the ship at Ft. Lauderdale you could fly to any of the non-U.S. ports of call, board and disembark in L.A. Your voyage would be from a non-U.S. port to L.A.. This is allowed. 

[AF-1]

Pam thank you for the great explanation

[beg3yrs]

7 hours ago, HappyCruiserettu said:

So, if I am on the Grand SF-Hawaii rt, and I get to Hilo on Saturday AM, fly immediately to Honolulu and spend the night, then re-board the ship in Honolulu on Sunday evening to continue my trip, that is a violation? I did not know that. I thought I was fairly up on the PVSA. Apparently not!

 

There may be huge amount of US shipping today, but there is virtually no US passenger ships. )Pride of America and river cruise ships only. Who are they protecting?.

The PVSA also (V is for vessel) also covers aircraft. In this case the protection is more for US airlines. This is one reason why foreign airlines do not offer routes internal to the USA.

 

It's the Jones Act that covers cargo.

[The Floating Buckeyes]

Hello fellow Princess fans!! Sorry to seem dense, but, re the EZ Air tangle, if we miss our departure in Ft. Lauderdale and the next day the ship visits Princess Cays (island of Eulethera), can we board there? Thanks for your clarifications!

Edited October 3, 2019 by The Floating Buckeyes
forgot I hadposted in the past

[Pam in CA]

8 hours ago, HappyCruiserettu said:

So, if I am on the Grand SF-Hawaii rt, and I get to Hilo on Saturday AM, fly immediately to Honolulu and spend the night, then re-board the ship in Honolulu on Sunday evening to continue my trip, that is a violation? I did not know that. I thought I was fairly up on the PVSA. Apparently not!

Yes. That would be a violation. If you are not onboard the ship when it sails, you have disembarked the ship as though it were a final destination. Your things would be packed up and left with the port rep in Honolulu along with everything in the safe. 

[Pam in CA]

7 minutes ago, The Floating Buckeyes said:

Hello fellow Princess fans!! Sorry to seem dense, but, re the EZ Air tangle, if we miss our departure in Ft. Lauderdale and the next day the ship visits Princess Cays (island of Eulethera), can we board there? Thanks for your clarifications!

Sure. You would not be boarding at a US port. Make sure you have your passport because without it, you wouldn’t be allowed to fly to the Bahamas. 

[MrMan]

I think the fly day before crowd needs to be a little more subtle to those that fly on same day.  I suspect the day before crowd tend to be retirees with time.  To fly the day before the working man has to take another limited vacation day, another day of daycare, another day of pet sitting, hotel and meal costs.  I just think we need to be careful judging those who don't have the luxury of flying in day before.

[NavyVeteran]

15 hours ago, memoak said:

Please explain Princess cruises to Hawaii all the time from Vancouver. Once you embark what law would fine you for missing the ship once in the islands ?

If you want to leave the cruise ship early in Hawaii before the normal disembarkation, it would not violate the PVSA since the cruise started in a foreign port. You would have to request permission in advance however.

 

If you leave at one port in Hawaii, you could not re-board at another port in Hawaii, since your second cruise (after the re-boarding) would be from one US port to another US port in violation of the PVSA.

[memoak]

3 minutes ago, NavyVeteran said:

If you want to leave the cruise ship early in Hawaii before the normal disembarkation, it would not violate the PVSA since the cruise started in a foreign port. You would have to request permission in advance however.

 

If you leave at one port in Hawaii, you could not re-board at another port in Hawaii, since your second cruise (after the re-boarding) would be from one US port to another US port in violation of the PVSA.

Except for the fact that it is a round trip from Vancouver so the 2nd cruise would be US to Canada

[The Floating Buckeyes]

1 hour ago, Pam in CA said:

Sure. You would not be boarding at a US port. Make sure you have your passport because without it, you wouldn’t be allowed to fly to the Bahamas. 

Thank you, Pam!

[npcl]

12 hours ago, Pam in CA said:

Yes, the cruise line is fined but the effect is the same since the fine is passed on to the passenger. 

How many cases have you actually seen where a passenger was actually charged the fee?  

 

1. The cruise lines worry more about the black mark then the fee.  So in almost all cases the cruise line will deny boarding rather than break the law. 

 

2. Most cases where it actually does happen are exceptions such as medical emergencies, weather related (such as hurricanes in the carribean) or ship mechanical failures such as the Celebrity ship that had to end a cruise unexpectedly.  In those cases the fee either gets waived  or the cruise line absorbs it.

 

The only time it might and I say might is in the case of a passenger doing something unapproved by the cruise line, such as departing the ship early in a US port without approval. Since the cruise lines are very good about preventing violations the number of times where there is even the opportunity for a few to get passed on is exceedingly rare.

[HappyCruiserettu]

2 hours ago, Pam in CA said:

Yes. That would be a violation. If you are not onboard the ship when it sails, you have disembarked the ship as though it were a final destination. Your things would be packed up and left with the port rep in Honolulu along with everything in the safe. 

Passengers who fail to return to the ship while visiting a port are forced to make their way, at their own expense, to the next, or subsequent, port in order to reboard. Does that not apply in Hawaii?

[Go-Bucks!]

There must be some type of exception to the rule.

 

In 2015, I was on the Grand when there was a fire in the port side engines as we approached Hilo, Hawaii. We limped up to Honolulu and stayed 2 days while they unsuccessfully tried to fix them. Passengers were given 2 options...be flown directly back to SFO or stay on the ship as it sailed (very slowly) to Ensenada then SFO. 

 

Wouldn't flying those passengers back to a US port without going to a foreign port be in violation? I'm assuming there's an exception then.

[cherylandtk]

Yes, exceptions have been made under such major circumstances; also hurricane diversions, engine failure resulting in being towed to a different port.  But the cruiseline must apply for such exceptions and are not going to do so on an individual passenger basis. (Except in medical emergencies)

Edited October 3, 2019 by cherylandtk

[cherylandtk]

1 hour ago, HappyCruiserettu said:

Passengers who fail to return to the ship while visiting a port are forced to make their way, at their own expense, to the next, or subsequent, port in order to reboard. Does that not apply in Hawaii?

Depends on where you boarded.  But if you miss the ship in a Hawaiian port you usually are prevented from reboarding at a later Hawaiian port. Same applies to a CA coastal and some New England ports.