Why do we want it both ways

[Outerdog]

2 minutes ago, DCP said:

I am with those who count their blessings...

 

You know, it's not one or the other, right? One can count their blessings while still observing and discussing trends in pricing and services provided.

 

[Oakman58]

I've never had a bad cruise but I have had cruises that weren't as good as others.  I do want to hear the negative remarks so at least I'm prepared.  I never worry about food complaints because food is too subjective.  However is someone posts about Howl at the Moon being boring I want to know about it.  If someone posts about beach towels no longer in the rooms or having to ask for an ice bucket, I want to know about it.  I would like to hear about the positives but I also want to hear about the negatives.

[warburg]

Greetings, Everyone, from South Beach. This is a very interesting thread for me. When we lived in Manhattan, we booked a seven day cruise in 2003 on the new NCL Dawn for my birthday. We loved it. The whole  ship was decorated with fine art, all real. For example, we dined under a Van Gogh and a Renoir. in the French restaurant. Every elevator landing was decorated with original Andy Warhol''s series, Marilyn Monroe, the most famous and two others. The next year, we repeated the cruise and again loved it. Later we read somewhere that the fine art we saw had been removed. We sailed three other NCL cruises, the last in 2007 on the Jewel's 15 day TA in The Villas. We enjoyed NCL at that time very much. We are returning now because special occasions fuel our ship choices and there is one that occurs during this one. That we don't have to fly is also a plus. This cruise in only seven days and we are not in steerage. Thanks for all the information. It has been educational.

Mary

 

Edited November 24, 2019 by warburg
correctiona, spacing

[pjcruiser1]

Interesting that a 3 to 4% salary increase on a given year is "adequate" yet not significant for most of us. Yet it is apparently unacceptable for a corporation. So NCL posted a 3.4% net profit increase, good for them. We all have choices, pick a different cruise line if NCL is not meeting your expecatations, it's really not the difficult. Yet it appears many people refuse to pay for the service they expect and want to blame a corporation for attempting to stay alive in today's economy. I'm sure everyone of the people stating a negative view would run the company differently, in their dreams! Factor in real world and cruise on another line, let you wallet do the talking!!!!

[iggyc]

I get that we all have a poor experience once in awhile. I just think when you say you couldn’t find anything edible on a 7 day cruise that you should consider increasing your budget and move on up to a luxury cruise. 
 

the old days of small ship cruising, lobster and pampering are gone from ncl, Royal and carnival. They cater to a crowd that wants a low cost vacation.  
 

im glad I had an opportunity to cruise on those old ships that pampered me. I just can’t see continuing to cruise and then complain that it isn’t like the good ole days. 
 

happy cruising to everyone. 

 

 

[lanceholt]

On 11/23/2019 at 3:44 PM, iggyc said:

Cracks me up that there are posts about what a great deal a cruise was booked for and then there are posts about declining food and services.  Typical of us to want everything at the lowest price possible but at the highest level of quality. Let’s face it we can’t have it both ways. I have travelled the world and have learned that focusing on the positive and ignoring the few negatives is the best way to go. Enjoy the journey and be thankful that you are one of the few In This world that can afford to travel

We cruise NCL, and these days mostly in a suite mainly because it makes everything easier....we are both in our 70's.   We cruise mainly for the ports, usually in Europe....best value to get us from place to place overseas.  We are the types to count our blessings and don't sweat the small stuff....we don't need the staff to bow down to us for sure and are empathetic with how hard their jobs are.  We don't travel as Ugly Americans anywhere in the world, but we have seen plenty of the type.  IF you can't find something good to eat on a cruise ship then you really have a problem.  Many are looking for a top of the line experience on a mid grade ship imho.  Don't care about chocolates on our pillow, towel animals, and that type of thing....if you do then NCL is not for you.  It's still a free country and you are free to upgrade if you want.

[gatour]

On 11/23/2019 at 6:52 PM, Outerdog said:

 

You should actually read the page where you ripped off that graph.

 

https://www.cruzely.com/cruise-prices-have-fallen-for-years-heres-how-much/

 

The chart you cited shows "Revenue per guest" and it even says right above it that "...this isn't the price of cruise fare".   Then right below the chart it says, "...at some point however, the rising number of passengers will likely lead to rising prices, if it hasn’t started already." 

 

Ignoring that Cruzly blog-type site, it may be more interesting to read NCLH 2018 Annual Report, which shows record revenues for 2018 of $6.1 Billion USD. Or Carnival Corporation's 2018 Annual Report, which shows revenues at $18.8 Billion USD up from $15 Billion in 2014. Carnival goes on to report that "Cruise passenger ticket revenues made up 74% of our 2018 total revenues. Cruise passenger ticket revenues increased by $986 million, or 7.6%, to $13.9 billion in 2018 from $12.9 billion in 2017."

 

It should be noted that Carnival Cooperation also reported Net Income of $3.0 Billion in 2018 up from $1.5 Billion in 2014.

 

I stand by my assessment that generally speaking, cruise prices, fees, and services charges have increased while services provided have been eliminated or reduced (I'm not going to cite those). If the financial reports don't do it for you, this forum is full of anecdotal evidence of both price increases and dropped services. 

Of course ticket revenues have increased, just by the fact that all cruise lines have added ships thus more cabins, thus more ticket revenues.  Doesn't necessary mean cruise prices have increased, but also doesn't mean they haven't.

 

In the restaurant/retail industries the financials also include a same store comparison for stores/restaurants that have been opened for over a year.  It is a simple matter to open a 100 restaurants in one year time frame and claim an increase of revenues.  The big picture is how they do year over year and if they cannibalize sales from existing stores. 

 

The charts etc presented on this thread, don't include the breakdown between ticket revenue's vs on-board revenues.  Also don't include expenses (i.e. food cost, alcohol cost, employee costs and other operating cost like fuel).

 

 

[newmexicoNita]

23 hours ago, Oakman58 said:

I said this in other threads, NCL no longer offers the cruise experience that I desire.   Keep in mind that I'm 74 years old and I don't need rope courses, rock climbing walls, etc.  My Alaskan cruise on the Holland Westerdam knocked my socks off.  Very attentive cabin stewards, excellent service in the dining room, and all of the employees I encountered were much friendlier than what I've experienced on recent NCL cruises.  Also 24/7 free room service, a welcome gift in our cabin on embarkation day, and a Mariners lunch which included another free gift.  That Mainers lunch beat a Latitudes party (Cruise Next sales pitch) hands down.  There were too many other little things, including chocolates on the pillow, to mention or remember.  My cruise with Holland reminded me of how special a cruise can be.  NCL has become nothing more than a floating 3 star hotel.  The one area where NCL still excels is theater entertainment.  Just my opinion.

 

After my cruise on the Epic in January I will be cruising with other lines in the future.  I already have another cruise booked with Holland in May.   If I book another cruise with NCL it will be because it visits ports that are unique to the line.

This is fine for you but the point that is missing is the cost: WE are several years older than you, have cruised many lines including HAL and each has their pros and cons but we have to consider cost. Yes, HAL offers a very good product but you pay for the more upscale experience, not to mention for us, they are almost too subdued. If this is what you want, that is fantastic. For us we need a little more excitement. Just like some like mega ships like Epic, others do not want all the features they offer.  Give me a decent pool area, a nice casino, nice friendly crew and decent food, all at a price we can afford.  

[newmexicoNita]

15 hours ago, Oakman58 said:

I've never had a bad cruise but I have had cruises that weren't as good as others.  I do want to hear the negative remarks so at least I'm prepared.  I never worry about food complaints because food is too subjective.  However is someone posts about Howl at the Moon being boring I want to know about it.  If someone posts about beach towels no longer in the rooms or having to ask for an ice bucket, I want to know about it.  I would like to hear about the positives but I also want to hear about the negatives.

well as for the towel issue, to me this is totally nit picking and can in no way effect the success or failure of a cruise experience. This is exactly what many of us are saying. Little things should not be reason to post how disappointed a cruise was. Grow up and get a life is what I say.. As for mentioning something like a show was boring, not your thing is different. Mentioning a port change after the ship has left is something else, but I think the OP is talking about people who over react to minor hiccups. 

[Oakman58]

1 hour ago, newmexicoNita said:

This is fine for you but the point that is missing is the cost: WE are several years older than you, have cruised many lines including HAL and each has their pros and cons but we have to consider cost. Yes, HAL offers a very good product but you pay for the more upscale experience, not to mention for us, they are almost too subdued. If this is what you want, that is fantastic. For us we need a little more excitement. Just like some like mega ships like Epic, others do not want all the features they offer.  Give me a decent pool area, a nice casino, nice friendly crew and decent food, all at a price we can afford.  

 

Apparently you haven't been on a HAL cruise recently.  I honestly don't know where you get the idea of HAL being more expensive than NCL.  I have a 7 day Alaskan cruise which includes visiting Glacier Bay NP booked for May 23rd on the Eurodam out of Seattle.  I was able to pick my balcony cabin location and the cabin cost was $1364 per person which under the current HAL promotion I received the Signature Drink Package free of charge.  By the way the beverage package not only included the gratuity it can be used for specialty coffees and bottled water.  Free bottled water comes in handy for shore excursions.

 

So let's look at a similar cruise (Glacier Bay NP) out of Seattle in the same time frame that NCL offers.  I'm trying to compare apples to apples.  The cheapest price for a balcony cabin on the NCL Bliss out of Seattle for May 24th is $2599 per person.  The cheapest Balcony on the Jewel which leaves out of Vancouver on May 25th is $2999 per person.  The Joy also leaves out of Seattle on May 23rd but does not visit Glacier Bay and has a balcony price of $1959 per person.  NCL prices make my balcony price of $1364 a real bargain.

 

I will grant you that Holland cruises are more subdued by only by a little.  The theater entertainment on NCL is much better but the lounges with entertainment on HAL are every bit as good as what NCL offers.  HAL offers classic style cruising while NCL offers a 3 star resort style of cruising.  I'm sorry Nita, NCL has gone downhill rapidly in the last few years in my opinion.

 

Edited November 25, 2019 by Oakman58

[thistimeplease]

On 11/24/2019 at 7:48 AM, tallnthensome said:

It’s because all the major lines are doing the same thing and there isn’t an option that everyone can run to that fills what NCL is lacking or charging. We as cruisers are pretty much stuck with whatever the lines give us for our money as a whole.

 

And this is why we are probably not cruising this year but are looking into other alternatives.

[davy jones]

On 11/24/2019 at 8:42 AM, SeaShark said:

Makes you wonder what the cruise lines use as a label for the cruisers constant obsession with getting the best bang for their buck.

Smart consumers?

[SeaShark]

46 minutes ago, davy jones said:

Smart consumers?

 

In the same way as it is really smart business and not nickel and diming...

[RNRcruisers]

I have to disagree about the prices going up. Our first cruise was in 1990 and I think we paid about the same for that one as our January cruise on Encore. Cruise ship revenue has probably gone up, more ships, more passengers etc but the price I pay for a cruise is basically the same as it was 30 years ago. This is anecdotal of course, rather than based on any research on my part. Some services are better now, some are worse but I still think it's a pretty good deal. It also means I can cruise more often than if the prices had kept up with inflation. 😃

[newmexicoNita]

22 hours ago, Oakman58 said:

 

Apparently you haven't been on a HAL cruise recently.  I honestly don't know where you get the idea of HAL being more expensive than NCL.  I have a 7 day Alaskan cruise which includes visiting Glacier Bay NP booked for May 23rd on the Eurodam out of Seattle.  I was able to pick my balcony cabin location and the cabin cost was $1364 per person which under the current HAL promotion I received the Signature Drink Package free of charge.  By the way the beverage package not only included the gratuity it can be used for specialty coffees and bottled water.  Free bottled water comes in handy for shore excursions.

 

So let's look at a similar cruise (Glacier Bay NP) out of Seattle in the same time frame that NCL offers.  I'm trying to compare apples to apples.  The cheapest price for a balcony cabin on the NCL Bliss out of Seattle for May 24th is $2599 per person.  The cheapest Balcony on the Jewel which leaves out of Vancouver on May 25th is $2999 per person.  The Joy also leaves out of Seattle on May 23rd but does not visit Glacier Bay and has a balcony price of $1959 per person.  NCL prices make my balcony price of $1364 a real bargain.

 

I will grant you that Holland cruises are more subdued by only by a little.  The theater entertainment on NCL is much better but the lounges with entertainment on HAL are every bit as good as what NCL offers.  HAL offers classic style cruising while NCL offers a 3 star resort style of cruising.  I'm sorry Nita, NCL has gone downhill rapidly in the last few years in my opinion.

 

Don't be sorry but do remember there is a huge difference between the words "in my opinion" and fact.  In my opinion, overall this is not the case. Cruising period has changed in the past 10 or so years. Some changes for the good and some not so. I could give you an example of a cruise we are taking in 2 weeks. It is on an upscale line and is a repo cruise. I will not bore you with the price, but I will say, this is a line we would normally never pay for and we would never cruise so close to Christmas but it was an unbelievable price; too good to turn down. There are always a few good deals out there. This doesn't mean a particular line that is known for it's higher price will always be higher. 

 

Now as for your great deal:that is a wonderful deal, almost too good to be true. The beverage package with water and coffee is something I do not understand NCL not offering. Now regardless of the great deal and again, it is a great deal, the one thing you are not considering is the difference in the ships; 1 ship is less than a year old, the other 12 plus years old. That means something to many people. It wouldn't to be particularly but it does affect the price. We both know that. 

 

[mugtech]

1 hour ago, newmexicoNita said:

 Now regardless of the great deal and again, it is a great deal, the one thing you are not considering is the difference in the ships; 1 ship is less than a year old, the other 12 plus years old. That means something to many people. It wouldn't to be particularly but it does affect the price. We both know that. 

 

The Jewel was the oldest NCL ship listed and was at a higher price.  People willing to pay more for older ships?  

[Oakman58]

1 hour ago, newmexicoNita said:

 

 

Now as for your great deal:that is a wonderful deal, almost too good to be true. The beverage package with water and coffee is something I do not understand NCL not offering. Now regardless of the great deal and again, it is a great deal, the one thing you are not considering is the difference in the ships; 1 ship is less than a year old, the other 12 plus years old. That means something to many people. It wouldn't to be particularly but it does affect the price. We both know that. 

 

 

I don't think the age of the ship has that much to do with ship pricing other than the first year of operation when so many passengers want to experience a new ship.  So let's compare two older ships of similar size out of Vancouver in mid-June, the Jewel and the Noordam. This is in prime tourist season in Alaska.  Again, I'm trying to compare apples to apples.

 

The NCL Jewel departs on June 22nd and includes Glacier Bay.  Picking a balcony so you have passenger cabins above and below you for this cruise the price would be $5215 per couple without the drink or dining package.  If you include the drink package only, the price increases to $5492  These prices include port fees and taxes, oh but wait, those price are with the 30% off Black Friday sale.  Norwegian Black Friday Sale equals BS.

 

Now let's look at the HA Noordam leaving out of Vancouver on June 21st and includes Glacier Bay.  Again picking a cabin with passengers above and below you the price is $4694 per couple including port fees and taxes. If you were to book this before December 3rd the drink package (including gratuity) is free.  I don't know if this particular cruise qualifies but some of the Holland one-way cruises like this one  also include the Skagway train along with the drink package.

 

For me personally, Holland offers a much better cruise experience at a better price.  Having said that, if I were bringing a teenage or younger child with me, Holland wouldn't be my choice.

 

[MotownVoice]

On 11/23/2019 at 3:44 PM, iggyc said:

Cracks me up that there are posts about what a great deal a cruise was booked for and then there are posts about declining food and services.  Typical of us to want everything at the lowest price possible but at the highest level of quality. Let’s face it we can’t have it both ways. I have travelled the world and have learned that focusing on the positive and ignoring the few negatives is the best way to go. Enjoy the journey and be thankful that you are one of the few In This world that can afford to travel

and the usual suspects come out to disagree, as if the statement “you should stop complaining and be grateful” even invites a disagreement. 

[IrieBajan54]

7 hours ago, Oakman58 said:

 

I don't think the age of the ship has that much to do with ship pricing other than the first year of operation when so many passengers want to experience a new ship.  So let's compare two older ships of similar size out of Vancouver in mid-June, the Jewel and the Noordam. This is in prime tourist season in Alaska.  Again, I'm trying to compare apples to apples.

 

The NCL Jewel departs on June 22nd and includes Glacier Bay.  Picking a balcony so you have passenger cabins above and below you for this cruise the price would be $5215 per couple without the drink or dining package.  If you include the drink package only, the price increases to $5492  These prices include port fees and taxes, oh but wait, those price are with the 30% off Black Friday sale.  Norwegian Black Friday Sale equals BS.

 

Now let's look at the HA Noordam leaving out of Vancouver on June 21st and includes Glacier Bay.  Again picking a cabin with passengers above and below you the price is $4694 per couple including port fees and taxes. If you were to book this before December 3rd the drink package (including gratuity) is free.  I don't know if this particular cruise qualifies but some of the Holland one-way cruises like this one  also include the Skagway train along with the drink package.

 

For me personally, Holland offers a much better cruise experience at a better price.  Having said that, if I were bringing a teenage or younger child with me, Holland wouldn't be my choice.

 

.

.

Wow! HAL Glacier Bay is definitely a better deal. Cheerleaders will have a difficult time acknowledging it. I have sailed HAL seven times and my favorite going back to the late 90's is the Veendam.

Edited November 26, 2019 by IrieBajan54
add text

[Oakman58]

On 11/26/2019 at 5:58 AM, newmexicoNita said:

 

Now as for your great deal:that is a wonderful deal, almost too good to be true. The beverage package with water and coffee is something I do not understand NCL not offering. Now regardless of the great deal and again, it is a great deal, the one thing you are not considering is the difference in the ships; 1 ship is less than a year old, the other 12 plus years old. That means something to many people. It wouldn't to be particularly but it does affect the price. We both know that. 

 

 

That deal I mentioned for our Alaskan cruise just got better.  For Holland's cyber sale which started today they are now offering paid hotel service chages ($14.50 pp per day) along with the drink package.  When I called to get this added to my reservation the cabin price for my cruise had gone up $55 per person, $110 per couple.  The hotel service charge would be $203 so I saved another $93.  So instead of the $1364 per person, the cabin price it is now $1419 per person and we get free drinks and paid service charges.  Naturally port fee and taxes are extra.  To say I'm tickled would be an understatement.

[ready2cruzagain]

12 minutes ago, Oakman58 said:

 

That deal I mentioned for our Alaskan cruise just got better.  For Holland's cyber sale which started today they are now offering paid hotel service chages ($14.50 pp per day) along with the drink package.  When I called to get this added to my reservation the cabin price for my cruise had gone up $55 per person, $110 per couple.  The hotel service charge would be $203 so I saved another $93.  So instead of the $1364 per person, the cabin price it is now $1419 per person and we get free drinks and paid service charges.  Naturally port fee and taxes are extra.  To say I'm tickled would be an understatement.

 

I just checked our HA cruise for next year and it went up $1500

[Oakman58]

On 11/27/2019 at 1:06 PM, ready2cruzagain said:

 

I just checked our HA cruise for next year and it went up $1500

 

That's good for you since you've already booked.