Sailing with non-enhanced driver's license?

[zipper1]

6 hours ago, SNJCruisers said:

It's not a stretch making a comparison of two different  ways to save money when it comes to a certain percentage of Carnival cruisers. They will do anything to save a buck and that includes removing grats and not investing in a passport.

So you're still saying stupid things. Must be your thing.

[zipper1]

1 hour ago, sparks1093 said:

I saved $850 by not buying passports for our first two cruises (and saved $300-ish on our next few cruises), never once thought about removing the gratuities to save money. Millions of people cruise on closed loop cruises every year with something other than passport and I seriously doubt that a significant percentage of them are removing gratuities.

Exactly.

[luv2trvlnow]

3 hours ago, sparks1093 said:

I saved $850 by not buying passports for our first two cruises (and saved $300-ish on our next few cruises), never once thought about removing the gratuities to save money. Millions of people cruise on closed loop cruises every year with something other than passport and I seriously doubt that a significant percentage of them are removing gratuities.

How did you save $850 by not buying passports for your first 2 cruises.  That's a lot of money.  How many passports would you have to buy?  You only buy it once every 10 years for adults.  Were your first 2 cruises more that 10 years apart?  My husband and I would have had to get our original passports and then renewed them 3 times to come out around $850 (prices were less that many years ago).  That would take care of 40 years of travel. 

[AtSeaWithChris]

On 2/1/2020 at 9:22 PM, SNJCruisers said:

 

But this is a Carnival thread, where there are a certain percentage  of  cruisers that line up on the last day to remove their  gratuities in order to save money

Really? Stirring the pot after adding some crap?

[sparks1093]

23 minutes ago, luv2trvlnow said:

How did you save $850 by not buying passports for your first 2 cruises.  That's a lot of money.  How many passports would you have to buy?  You only buy it once every 10 years for adults.  Were your first 2 cruises more that 10 years apart?  My husband and I would have had to get our original passports and then renewed them 3 times to come out around $850 (prices were less that many years ago).  That would take care of 40 years of travel. 

Family of 7 and 3 or 4 of them would have received 5 year passports. For a 4 day cruise it didn't seem like a good expenditure. The cruises were one year apart and were both 4 day cruises. We knew that we wanted to travel internationally by air at some point but we also knew that with 5 kids at home that wasn't going to happen any time soon so we decided to wait to get passports until we actually needed them for our trip. That happened in 2015 when we flew to Germany for the first time.

Edited February 4, 2020 by sparks1093

[AtSeaWithChris]

On 2/1/2020 at 7:02 PM, sanger727 said:

you are confusing the issue.  No us citizen is required to have a real ID. You will need a real ID or other federally compliant document (like a passport) to fly in October. But if you have a passport or don’t fly you are certainly not required to get a real ID. I know my state still issues drivers licenses that are not real ID compliant if you prefer that.

This is truth. However it makes me a little uneasy that the country I grew up in is requiring "enhanced" documentation or "papers" in order to travel freely whether it's by air or not. I understand that we already had to have ID to travel, and that different states had different policies on the execution of ID documents, and that this is just standardizing the policies of verifiable ID. But this feels different. This is, in my opinion, federal overreach that basically tells the sovereign states how to do it. I mean after all it IS for our security right??? 🤨

[AtSeaWithChris]

On 2/1/2020 at 2:55 PM, luv2trvlnow said:

We happen to live in a state that has put off Real ID.  One of the absolute last ones.  In fact it isn't even available in Oklahoma yet.  They plan to start issuing them on April 30 in a few select locations in the state.  They will not even be available statewide until August 31.  Nothing like cutting it close, 1 whole month before being required for certain things like flying.   I would expect long lines in the month of September to get a Real ID.  I sure am glad we have passports.

Just curious but do you know why OK has resisted or held off from doing this earlier? Were there some government officials in  argument over the issue or were people against it? Or just painfully slow government movement?

[AtSeaWithChris]

On 1/30/2020 at 2:14 PM, sparks1093 said:

She should inform the ship and see if arrangements can be made. There are provisions in the regulations that allow for the waiver of the passport requirement for emergencies and for humanitarian reasons. Yes, life does happen but the risk for most passengers is low and as long as they are comfortable with the risk it is there call to make.

The ship has no control on customs in any country.

[sparks1093]

12 minutes ago, MamallamaAndDaddy said:

This is truth. However it makes me a little uneasy that the country I grew up in is requiring "enhanced" documentation or "papers" in order to travel freely whether it's by air or not. I understand that we already had to have ID to travel, and that different states had different policies on the execution of ID documents, and that this is just standardizing the policies of verifiable ID. But this feels different. This is, in my opinion, federal overreach that basically tells the sovereign states how to do it. I mean after all it IS for our security right??? 🤨

That's why a lot of states were resistant but REAL ID only pertains to entering property under Federal jurisdiction, which ends the federal overreach argument. REAL ID established security controls for storing ID materials, security features for IDs themselves and applicants must demonstrate legal presence in the US. It will make it much more difficult to make a phony ID that passes any sort of official scrutiny.

[sparks1093]

Just now, MamallamaAndDaddy said:

The ship has no control on customs in any country.

No, but there are arrangements in place between most countries and the US to get US citizens home in such circumstances. It's worth a try and it's what I'd be doing rather than sitting around. Even if I ended up not making it back I would know that I tried everything that I could.

[AtSeaWithChris]

On 1/25/2020 at 6:08 PM, coevan said:

unless cruising is your only vacation and never plan on leaving the country, you don't "need " a passport. I, personally would not leave U.S. soil without a passport. Kind of the same reason we always buy travel insurance.

I'm willing to take a bet that after the ReadID law / requirement goes into effect that the cruising loophole will be  closed, at some point in the future, in order to be more secure.

[AtSeaWithChris]

On 1/25/2020 at 11:39 AM, coevan said:

 

 

really, my social security card has been in my banks safe deposit box for 20+ years, i have never been asked anywhere by anybody to see it

In Alabama, in order to get the ReadID, my social security card was requested by DMV. Luckily I have it laminated in my wallet (I know it's not supposed to be laminated lol).

[sanger727]

5 minutes ago, MamallamaAndDaddy said:

In Alabama, in order to get the ReadID, my social security card was requested by DMV. Luckily I have it laminated in my wallet (I know it's not supposed to be laminated lol).

 

It's also not supposed to be in your wallet...

 

If that's all they asked for that's a little surprising and makes me wonder about this standardization thing. I had to show either a passport or birth certificate and 2 bills showing proof of residence...

Edited February 4, 2020 by sanger727

[rukkian]

41 minutes ago, MamallamaAndDaddy said:

This is truth. However it makes me a little uneasy that the country I grew up in is requiring "enhanced" documentation or "papers" in order to travel freely whether it's by air or not. I understand that we already had to have ID to travel, and that different states had different policies on the execution of ID documents, and that this is just standardizing the policies of verifiable ID. But this feels different. This is, in my opinion, federal overreach that basically tells the sovereign states how to do it. I mean after all it IS for our security right??? 🤨

How exactly does this trample on states rights?  States rights end at the border of their state.  The only possible place this may trample states rights are flights within a state, but that has to be a fairly small number overall.  If you are flying to a different state, then federal has jurisdiction.  If you are going to a federal facility, then federal has jurisdiction.  No state has to have realid, but if they do not, then their citizens will need another form of documentation to fly domestically.  

[AtSeaWithChris]

On 1/25/2020 at 12:14 PM, jimbo5544 said:

While true, it has no value for domestic Air travel which real ID has.  

An EDL is ReadID compliant so either an EDL or RealID ID card is sufficient for all domestic air travel. EDL is currently only offered in 5 states but RealID will be offered in the remaining states by Oct. 1, 2020. Either ID will meet federal requirements for air travel.

[ray98]

17 minutes ago, MamallamaAndDaddy said:

I'm willing to take a bet that after the ReadID law / requirement goes into effect that the cruising loophole will be  closed, at some point in the future, in order to be more secure.

 

Doubtful....the new standard will make the process that much more secure.

[sparks1093]

16 minutes ago, MamallamaAndDaddy said:

I'm willing to take a bet that after the ReadID law / requirement goes into effect that the cruising loophole will be  closed, at some point in the future, in order to be more secure.

I doubt it, when DHS was writing the regulations they determined that a US citizen traveling on a closed loop cruise presents a low risk to the national security. There is time during the cruise to vet everyone through a multitude of databases and the cruise lines do a good job of verifying documentation. 

[AtSeaWithChris]

4 minutes ago, rukkian said:

How exactly does this trample on states rights?  States rights end at the border of their state.  The only possible place this may trample states rights are flights within a state, but that has to be a fairly small number overall.  If you are flying to a different state, then federal has jurisdiction.  If you are going to a federal facility, then federal has jurisdiction.  No state has to have realid, but if they do not, then their citizens will need another form of documentation to fly domestically.  

As a united states we could travel to and fro. You are not required to show documents to drive across a state border.

[rukkian]

1 minute ago, MamallamaAndDaddy said:

As a united states we could travel to and fro. You are not required to show documents to drive across a state border.

That still doesn't answer how it tramples on states rights.  States rights end at their state border, on top of that, domestic air travel has always been under the jurisdiction of the FAA, not each state.  

 

I realize this is different, I am not disputing that, just wondering how this tramples on states rights as you mentioned.

[AtSeaWithChris]

1 minute ago, rukkian said:

That still doesn't answer how it tramples on states rights.  States rights end at their state border, on top of that, domestic air travel has always been under the jurisdiction of the FAA, not each state.  

 

I realize this is different, I am not disputing that, just wondering how this tramples on states rights as you mentioned.

Because the federal government is strengthening its assertion of control over the states with the new ID criteria. Slippery slope stuff. We as citizens could one day be required to show our papers just walking through town.

[ObstructedView2]

Wasn't this asked & answered 6 pages & two weeks ago, LOL!

 

 

 

✌️

 

 

[luv2trvlnow]

53 minutes ago, MamallamaAndDaddy said:

Just curious but do you know why OK has resisted or held off from doing this earlier? Were there some government officials in  argument over the issue or were people against it? Or just painfully slow government movement?

From the very start Oklahoma officials were against Real ID.  They passed a law stating they wouldn't comply with the Real ID act as they had concerns about how the information was stored.  Even though they will be issuing Real ID they keep letting everyone know that they don't have to get one and they will still be issuing the regular (non-compliant) Driver's Licenses.

[AtSeaWithChris]

3 minutes ago, luv2trvlnow said:

From the very start Oklahoma officials were against Real ID.  They passed a law stating they wouldn't comply with the Real ID act as they had concerns about how the information was stored.  Even though they will be issuing Real ID they keep letting everyone know that they don't have to get one and they will still be issuing the regular (non-compliant) Driver's Licenses.

Thanks, Sounds like OK is cool. 🙂

 

[rukkian]

11 minutes ago, MamallamaAndDaddy said:

Because the federal government is strengthening its assertion of control over the states with the new ID criteria. Slippery slope stuff. We as citizens could one day be required to show our papers just walking through town.

I can see an argument about individual's rights, even though I personally feel safer flying with people that had verified identification to get on the plane.  I am simply questioning how is this trampling states rights?  The states have no say over federal buildings, nor flights - the FAA has always been in control of that.  No state is required to offer real id, but if they do not, then their residents will need a different ID to fly.  

[AtSeaWithChris]

2 minutes ago, rukkian said:

I can see an argument about individual's rights, even though I personally feel safer flying with people that had verified identification to get on the plane.  I am simply questioning how is this trampling states rights?  The states have no say over federal buildings, nor flights - the FAA has always been in control of that.  No state is required to offer real id, but if they do not, then their residents will need a different ID to fly.  

The FAA didn't always control the airspace. The federal government asserted control for air safety and regulation. "In 1938, President Franklin Roosevelt created the Civil Aeronautics Act, which outlined ways to prevent airline accidents, regulated airline fares, and determined airline routes. Two years after a fatal air traffic accident over the Grand Canyon, the Federal Aviation Agency was established in 1958."